I wouldn't mind seeing some references to what you said about illegals.
I do not know what MayDay is referring to, but I saw something a few months ago that exemplified this point (and I must admit, I was shocked). I live in an area where there is a large population of illegal immigrants for tobacco farms, particularly in the summer time. There is a rural dental clinic on the outskirts of town; they were hanging flyers on stores in town for dental care for $10 a visit (xrays, fillings, cleanings) for 'migrants' (read: illegal immigrants). I was having dental problems at the time, and I called them and was told that I would not be eligible. :shock: True story.
I live in a area where there's dental provided at a clinic for low income people in general. Mayday's claim was that there is more of this kind of thing provided for illegals than non-illegals. I just wasn't so sure about that.
My wife's a nurse. At the county health fair last month, she handed out free toothbrushes n stuff, along w/ flyers (written in Spanish) to hispanics. The flyers told this illegal alien how she can get free dental care for all her children. (She has SIX.) Nobody in the family speaks English. None of them pay taxes. None of them have ever put a dollar into Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. But they are already eligible for the benefits.
Cant remember if its M.care or M.aid that covers it, but all 6 of her kids get free cleanings, fillings, etc. Its the same for medical.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Why?
Why do I have to pay $700/month for family health insurance, AFTER I pay taxes to support this illegal's six kids?
Well, I'm glad I live in a country where my neighbour won't go bankrupt if he get's sick, and I don't need to worry about medical bills. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
The flyers told this illegal alien how she can get free dental care for all her children. (She has SIX.) Nobody in the family speaks English. None of them pay taxes. None of them have ever put a dollar into Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. But they are already eligible for the benefits.
Well, I'm glad I live in a country where my neighbour won't go bankrupt if he get's sick, and I don't need to worry about medical bills. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
He won't go broke because he has his good neighbor to pay for it.
Well, I'm glad I live in a country where my neighbour won't go bankrupt if he get's sick, and I don't need to worry about medical bills. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
He won't go broke because he has his good neighbor to pay for it.
I know I couldn't afford to help my neighbour out with a 100k+ heart operation, but it's nice to know everybody's protected equally.
And anyone I know within the Canadian system, when faced with a serious illness, has received excellent care (from my grandpa's cancer to uncle's bypass).
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Well, I'm glad I live in a country where my neighbour won't go bankrupt if he get's sick, and I don't need to worry about medical bills. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
He won't go broke because he has his good neighbor to pay for it.
I know I couldn't afford to help my neighbour out with a 100k+ heart operation, but it's nice to know everybody's protected equally.
And anyone I know within the Canadian system, when faced with a serious illness, has received excellent care (from my grandpa's cancer to uncle's bypass).
I have heard good things about it from Canadians myself.
Well, I'm glad I live in a country where my neighbour won't go bankrupt if he get's sick, and I don't need to worry about medical bills. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
He won't go broke because he has his good neighbor to pay for it.
Which is great because the sick neighboor will be less likely to be walking around with something contagious and spreading it to his friends and neighboors. Plus if the sick guy goes broke he could lose his house and a bunch of forclosures on keeponrockin's street will hurt his property value and bring down the standard of living in his neighboorhood. That plus a ton of other reasons why everyone having easy access to healthcare that they can afford is good for society as a whole.
I have heard good things about it from Canadians myself.
If you have something serious, it's great. For something like MRI's/'non fatal' stuff, the wait times are definitely longer than those in the states. It's not perfect, but it's a good system.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I have heard good things about it from Canadians myself.
If you have something serious, it's great. For something like MRI's/'non fatal' stuff, the wait times are definitely longer than those in the states. It's not perfect, but it's a good system.
I live in a area where there's dental provided at a clinic for low income people in general. Mayday's claim was that there is more of this kind of thing provided for illegals than non-illegals. I just wasn't so sure about that.
My wife's a nurse. At the county health fair last month, she handed out free toothbrushes n stuff, along w/ flyers (written in Spanish) to hispanics. The flyers told this illegal alien how she can get free dental care for all her children. (She has SIX.) Nobody in the family speaks English. None of them pay taxes. None of them have ever put a dollar into Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. But they are already eligible for the benefits.
Cant remember if its M.care or M.aid that covers it, but all 6 of her kids get free cleanings, fillings, etc. Its the same for medical.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Why?
Why do I have to pay $700/month for family health insurance, AFTER I pay taxes to support this illegal's six kids?
More anecdotal stories as evidence, but we'll go with it. It seems like you're not very clear on the differences between Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, so you may not want to try and sound like an authority on the subject. The children of illegals are eligible for Medicaid, no the illegal parents. I thinks it's a good idea to cover immigrant children's medical for different reasons, one being that immigrants are the future of the country, and in this case, rotten teeth can lead to a host of medical problems in the future. I think it's better to pay some costs up front for a healthy future rather than a large cost on the back end with many more unhealthy people.
I don't understand people who promote "shutting the borders down". People who have been here for more than one generation have fewer than two kids typically. As long as we have a consumer oriented economic system, we need growth in the lower age groups to avoid being too 'top heavy' with old people. Immigrants fill this gap.
"Nobody in the family speaks English" is an interesting statement. My Great Aunt used to talk about her Grandmother speaking French, and of course it's a quaint story about our family history, being that we're white people with no real ethnic connectedness. I guess someone should have told her that she had two years to learn English and ditch the French.
I live in a area where there's dental provided at a clinic for low income people in general. Mayday's claim was that there is more of this kind of thing provided for illegals than non-illegals. I just wasn't so sure about that.
My wife's a nurse. At the county health fair last month, she handed out free toothbrushes n stuff, along w/ flyers (written in Spanish) to hispanics. The flyers told this illegal alien how she can get free dental care for all her children. (She has SIX.) Nobody in the family speaks English. None of them pay taxes. None of them have ever put a dollar into Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. But they are already eligible for the benefits.
Cant remember if its M.care or M.aid that covers it, but all 6 of her kids get free cleanings, fillings, etc. Its the same for medical.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Why?
Why do I have to pay $700/month for family health insurance, AFTER I pay taxes to support this illegal's six kids?
More anecdotal stories as evidence, but we'll go with it. It seems like you're not very clear on the differences between Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, so you may not want to try and sound like an authority on the subject. The children of illegals are eligible for Medicaid, no the illegal parents. I thinks it's a good idea to cover immigrant children's medical for different reasons, one being that immigrants are the future of the country, and in this case, rotten teeth can lead to a host of medical problems in the future. I think it's better to pay some costs up front for a healthy future rather than a large cost on the back end with many more unhealthy people.
I don't understand people who promote "shutting the borders down". People who have been here for more than one generation have fewer than two kids typically. As long as we have a consumer oriented economic system, we need growth in the lower age groups to avoid being too 'top heavy' with old people. Immigrants fill this gap.
"Nobody in the family speaks English" is an interesting statement. My Great Aunt used to talk about her Grandmother speaking French, and of course it's a quaint story about our family history, being that we're white people with no real ethnic connectedness. I guess someone should have told her that she had two years to learn English and ditch the French.
I don't know why you posted that. Was there a point?
It is difficult to discuss a subject as convoluted as this with people who lack the capacity to understand the financial consequences of such a system, and who that burden will fall on.
It is easy to come on here in favor of everything- as long as you pretend everything is free.
What the hell were they xraying a back strain for?
just to answer your question, you always x ray a back strain or injury for a few reasons. one, you are looking for any damage to the vertebrae such as an avulsion fracture of a transverse or spinous process. you are also looking for degenerative or arthritic changes to the vertebrae. you are also looking for forward slippage of the vertebrae which is called spondylolysthesis. lastly you are looking for space between the vertebrae, if there is decreased space between the vertebrae you can almost guarantee there is a disc issue like herniation or degeneration. x rays can also tell you if other tests like mri or ct scans are necessary. \
x rays are a lot more useful than people think and they are very cheep. that is why x rays are the first step in the orthopedic workup...
Again I was messing with him...but I did find this...
"X-Rays are very good at showing up bony problems; they are good for identifying fractures and dislocations. They are not good at identifying muscles and ligaments as these are not seen on X-ray. X-Rays are also not very good at showing discs, an X-ray will only show the space a disc occupies.Despite this X-Rays are very commonly used for lower back pain investigations."
theyre also good for finding aneurysmal bone cysts when all you thought theyd find is a fracture. saved my sons fibula... twice.
plus xrays are cool... you get to see inside your body.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm not sure what piss poor argument I'm trying to make here...perhaps I misunderstood and you feel that people who DO make this argument are in the wrong?
Yes, I meant the people who do make this argument - not you! Sorry for the confusion.
Aye, this is just tragic...I just can't fathom this kind of service after, as you say, paying into the system his whole life...just tragic. Hope he's well soon.
Thanks!
However, is this an example of government looking out for their own interests? Or is the government merely mirroring the general will of the American people who are not interested in subscribing to universal healthcare?
I'd say it's the politicians looking out for corporate interests & the media perpetuating myths to scare the public.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Really? that's weird to me, my dentist is F'N Rich, he's also outstanding at what he does, offers all the latest techniques.
Read the whole post man....
You either didn't read it, or you really don't understand this issue.
Doctors and dentists are already refusing to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients, because they lose money doing it. This bill guts reimbursement to doctors.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Really? that's weird to me, my dentist is F'N Rich, he's also outstanding at what he does, offers all the latest techniques.
Read the whole post man....
You either didn't read it, or you really don't understand this issue.
Doctors and dentists are already refusing to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients, because they lose money doing it. This bill guts reimbursement to doctors.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Really? that's weird to me, my dentist is F'N Rich, he's also outstanding at what he does, offers all the latest techniques.
Read the whole post man....
You either didn't read it, or you really don't understand this issue.
Doctors and dentists are already refusing to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients, because they lose money doing it. This bill guts reimbursement to doctors.
this is where greed comes in. the doctors i work for take medicare and medicaid. they don't turn people away because they have medicaid. they do not make money on those patients, but they believe that they do not HAVE to be rich, and they see those patients because it is the right thing to do.... the bottom line will take care of itself in time...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Why do I have to pay $700/month for family health insurance, AFTER I pay taxes to support this illegal's six kids?
More anecdotal stories as evidence, but we'll go with it. It seems like you're not very clear on the differences between Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, so you may not want to try and sound like an authority on the subject. The children of illegals are eligible for Medicaid, no the illegal parents. I thinks it's a good idea to cover immigrant children's medical for different reasons, one being that immigrants are the future of the country, and in this case, rotten teeth can lead to a host of medical problems in the future. I think it's better to pay some costs up front for a healthy future rather than a large cost on the back end with many more unhealthy people.
I don't understand people who promote "shutting the borders down". People who have been here for more than one generation have fewer than two kids typically. As long as we have a consumer oriented economic system, we need growth in the lower age groups to avoid being too 'top heavy' with old people. Immigrants fill this gap.
"Nobody in the family speaks English" is an interesting statement. My Great Aunt used to talk about her Grandmother speaking French, and of course it's a quaint story about our family history, being that we're white people with no real ethnic connectedness. I guess someone should have told her that she had two years to learn English and ditch the French.
I don't know why you posted that. Was there a point?
It is difficult to discuss a subject as convoluted as this with people who lack the capacity to understand the financial consequences of such a system, and who that burden will fall on.
It is easy to come on here in favor of everything- as long as you pretend everything is free.
"I see drone people..."
My point seemed pretty clear to me. You posted an example about Medicaid, and then asked "why". I was responding to you asking 'why'. Maybe you got lost because when someone asks why, there can be a lot of answers. Sometimes it seems like you read responses to your previous posts in isolation, and then get lost. I also pointed out that you don't seem to know the difference between Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. I then made a point about the importance of immigrants. Again, the point about immigrants was responding to you asking 'why?'.
I understand Medicaid is expensive. Look at Canada, how do they handle it? (meaning the costs of universal health care)
I don't pretend everything is free. Cut the crap out of the military and let the Bush tax cuts expire as a starting point.
"I see people who sure post a lot but avoid responding to others......"
Just take a quick look at what the U.S. spends on healthcare in GDP in comparison to other western countries. The data speaks for itself, the system is broken.....this is what happens when healthcare is for profit.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Really? that's weird to me, my dentist is F'N Rich, he's also outstanding at what he does, offers all the latest techniques.
Read the whole post man....
You either didn't read it, or you really don't understand this issue.
Doctors and dentists are already refusing to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients, because they lose money doing it. This bill guts reimbursement to doctors.
this is where greed comes in. the doctors i work for take medicare and medicaid. they don't turn people away because they have medicaid. they do not make money on those patients, but they believe that they do not HAVE to be rich, and they see those patients because it is the right thing to do.... the bottom line will take care of itself in time...
Ah...the bottom line will take care of itself huh? I know that I expect a paycheck from work, I must be pretty greedy.
In our quest for "RIGHTS", we are losing our FREEDOMS.
So what freedom are we losing if more people had access to better healthcare?
It painfully obvious that the current system isn't working. I'm 100% sure I don't agree with _ on everything, but I do think we need something different. I am also concerned about how it will be paid for however, which many people don't seem to think is any kind of an issue. But life ain't all rainbows and puppy dogs, someone has to pay.
I think it's time to stop the rhetoric on both sides and have an open discussion. Quit talking about people dying in the streets and quit avoiding the question of cost.
C'mon now, cincy, you know you agree with me on everything. You can admit it.
Who's avoiding the question of cost? I've said a million times that we can pay for universal care without incurring any additional costs than we're already paying for healthcare. I'm sure I've cited sources in the past, but what exactly do you need to know so as to be satisfied that this question is not being avoided?
It is difficult to discuss a subject as convoluted as this with people who lack the capacity to understand the financial consequences of such a system, and who that burden will fall on.
Yes, yes it is. And that's why you need to get your facts straight before you start acting like you know what you're talking about.
1. There are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, more healthcare services for undocumented immigrants than for U.S. citizens.
2. Undocumented immigrants DO pay taxes and they DO pay into the healthcare system - they're just rarely allowed to use it. So one could argue that your burden falls on them more than theirs falls on you.
3. The children of undocumented immigrants, if they were born in this country, are U.S. citizens and have just as much right to publicly-funded healthcare as your children do.
I haven't yet read the thread past this post, but up to now you have failed to list one single healthcare program for undocumented immigrants. A few do exist, but your inability to name even ONE publicly-funded healthcare program for undocumented immigrants sure as hell doesn't back up your outrageous claim that they actually receive MORE healthcare benefits than the rest of us.
And why did you have to change this thread into one about immigration? Maybe you should start a new thread about immigration if it's so important to you.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Really? that's weird to me, my dentist is F'N Rich, he's also outstanding at what he does, offers all the latest techniques.
Read the whole post man....
You either didn't read it, or you really don't understand this issue.
Doctors and dentists are already refusing to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients, because they lose money doing it. This bill guts reimbursement to doctors.
What bill? We're talking about a specific bill now? I guess I missed that post. :?
I also do not have enough faith in the government to run healthcare (which does not equal health insurance by the way) any better, though.
Well you're in luck! Because, to my knowledge, no one's suggesting that the government run healthcare.
uhhh....... what?
As know1 astutely pointed out, there's a difference between health care and health insurance. Many people seem to confuse the two and think that people calling for universal healthcare are calling for the government to run healthcare. In reality, they're just calling for the government to fund a system of health insurance under which everyone will be covered. So they wouldn't be running healthcare at all - they'd just be paying for it.
I believe one of the key factors in this is the UK's (and other nations with universal healthcare) political culture. Honestly, the NHS is as untouchable as the public sector education system...No politician has succeeded in quashing the public backlash of suggestions to privatize our healthcare system... even Maggie couldn't do it! Mind you, we have seen increasing privatization of certain elements of our healthcare system through subsequent so called 'Labour' governments. However, we could argue that the basic premise remains the same...money paid by everyone pays for everyone ('except for those lovely folks who just don't feel like workin' God bless em!'...had to slip the Ned Flanders quote in there!)
The fact that we have a history of 63 years under the NHS, which resulted from state welfare initiatives first devised following the Boer War at the turn of the 20th century... we'll be damned if anyone's gonna take that away from us! Politicians know that fine well, even though they may not like it, that to present a manifesto scrapping the NHS would be political suicide. This underpinning of national healthcare is so ingrained in us that it keeps pharmaceutical companies in a relatively subservient relationship with the UK public...arguably, the way it should be! I am led to believe that the U.S really struggles to deal with the power the pharmaceutical companies hold in influencing government...with this being the case, how the hell do the people get the power back and get drugs at a suitably inexpensive price? When we in Scotland passed free prescriptions in April 2011, I really felt as if it was a big deal. I mean, it's fucking crazy! Fair enough, we were not paying too much prior...maybe a few pounds per prescription, but the idea of no additional cost for prescription besides our National Insurance can really be celebrated as a 'success' of the NHS.
My naive, generalizing nature leads me to simple 'should haves'...I feel the time for America to have sorted out healthcare should have been post WWII...that's when we formalized our NHS, whilst still very much in a genuine 'pulling together' national sentiment...at a time of crisis, you really can see the benefit in everyone pulling resources together for the good of all men (just a phrase...of course all women too...and perhaps children if there's any money left! ). This sentiment managed to carry its way right to the top levels of government. I feel there's a bitter sweet irony in the post WWII American situation...emerging as the undisputed global economic power, the 'rebuild' from the foundations was not required...the US was able to enjoy its hegemony and quickly develop an affluent consumer society based on the rising levels of disposable income...perhaps at this point America may have thought that universal healthcare was for nations in turmoil only...America was an unstoppable juggernaut; where was the impetus to pull together on the notion of healthcare?
Therefore, I'd argue that America's post-war success was it's undoing, as it put healthcare on the back burner, allowing for private interests to take full advantage of the situation and lock the nation into this situation whereby elite influence is everything in US healthcare...It's as if the progressive era 'stopped' because the country was winning economically, but in doing so, failed to address the ongoing social problems of the poor...what kind of event would be required to overthrow and fundamentally alter the current relationship between private interests and representative government regarding healthcare? I thought Katrina would have been enough...perhaps it did provoke change in some; however, it clearly wasn't enough to provoke the kind of change in important places which WWII did for Britain. Unfortunately, I fear a continuation of the current situation in America :(
Hmm, random rant but I stand by whatever the hell I was trying to say!?!**!!??!!
Perhaps I wanted to point the discussion to why the US health care system has turned the way it has...I'm by no means an expert...would love to hear the opinions of others on this.
Regards,
Jamie
You can't spend your time alone, re-digesting past regrets - you can't come to terms and realize you're the only one who can forgive yourself - it makes much more sense to live in the present tense.
Leeds Festival - 25/08/2006, London O2 - 18/08/2009. London Hyde Park - 25/06/2010...upcoming... Manchester MEN - 20/06/2012, Manchester MEN - 21/06/2012
Ah...the bottom line will take care of itself huh? I know that I expect a paycheck from work, I must be pretty greedy.
yes the bottom line will take care of itself. if we see more patients we will make more money. if we see less we will make less money. they make enough that they can provide care to the less fortunate without missing that money.
they are both christian doctors, and they follow christ's teachings of taking care of the least among us, because what they do unto them, they do unto christ...
perhaps more people should take the faith that they claim to have and insert that into their business dealings...the docs i work with do it and they are just fine financially.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
My wife's a nurse. At the county health fair last month, she handed out free toothbrushes n stuff, along w/ flyers (written in Spanish) to hispanics. The flyers told this illegal alien how she can get free dental care for all her children. (She has SIX.) Nobody in the family speaks English. None of them pay taxes. None of them have ever put a dollar into Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. But they are already eligible for the benefits.
Cant remember if its M.care or M.aid that covers it, but all 6 of her kids get free cleanings, fillings, etc. Its the same for medical.
My brother in law is a dentist. He practically loses money doing this, and will not be doing it for long.
Why?
Why do I have to pay $700/month for family health insurance, AFTER I pay taxes to support this illegal's six kids?
Well, I'm glad I live in a country where my neighbour won't go bankrupt if he get's sick, and I don't need to worry about medical bills. That basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
Illegal aliens? They don't pay taxes?
Assumptions.
He won't go broke because he has his good neighbor to pay for it.
And anyone I know within the Canadian system, when faced with a serious illness, has received excellent care (from my grandpa's cancer to uncle's bypass).
I have heard good things about it from Canadians myself.
Which is great because the sick neighboor will be less likely to be walking around with something contagious and spreading it to his friends and neighboors. Plus if the sick guy goes broke he could lose his house and a bunch of forclosures on keeponrockin's street will hurt his property value and bring down the standard of living in his neighboorhood. That plus a ton of other reasons why everyone having easy access to healthcare that they can afford is good for society as a whole.
Well, nothing is perfect...
More anecdotal stories as evidence, but we'll go with it. It seems like you're not very clear on the differences between Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, so you may not want to try and sound like an authority on the subject. The children of illegals are eligible for Medicaid, no the illegal parents. I thinks it's a good idea to cover immigrant children's medical for different reasons, one being that immigrants are the future of the country, and in this case, rotten teeth can lead to a host of medical problems in the future. I think it's better to pay some costs up front for a healthy future rather than a large cost on the back end with many more unhealthy people.
I don't understand people who promote "shutting the borders down". People who have been here for more than one generation have fewer than two kids typically. As long as we have a consumer oriented economic system, we need growth in the lower age groups to avoid being too 'top heavy' with old people. Immigrants fill this gap.
"Nobody in the family speaks English" is an interesting statement. My Great Aunt used to talk about her Grandmother speaking French, and of course it's a quaint story about our family history, being that we're white people with no real ethnic connectedness. I guess someone should have told her that she had two years to learn English and ditch the French.
I don't know why you posted that. Was there a point?
It is difficult to discuss a subject as convoluted as this with people who lack the capacity to understand the financial consequences of such a system, and who that burden will fall on.
It is easy to come on here in favor of everything- as long as you pretend everything is free.
"I see drone people..."
Really? that's weird to me, my dentist is F'N Rich, he's also outstanding at what he does, offers all the latest techniques.
theyre also good for finding aneurysmal bone cysts when all you thought theyd find is a fracture. saved my sons fibula... twice.
plus xrays are cool... you get to see inside your body.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes, I meant the people who do make this argument - not you! Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks!
I'd say it's the politicians looking out for corporate interests & the media perpetuating myths to scare the public.
Well you're in luck! Because, to my knowledge, no one's suggesting that the government run healthcare.
Read the whole post man....
You either didn't read it, or you really don't understand this issue.
Doctors and dentists are already refusing to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients, because they lose money doing it. This bill guts reimbursement to doctors.
uhhh....... what?
Wish I was a dentist- I'd be able to afford more PJ stuff.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
My point seemed pretty clear to me. You posted an example about Medicaid, and then asked "why". I was responding to you asking 'why'. Maybe you got lost because when someone asks why, there can be a lot of answers. Sometimes it seems like you read responses to your previous posts in isolation, and then get lost. I also pointed out that you don't seem to know the difference between Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. I then made a point about the importance of immigrants. Again, the point about immigrants was responding to you asking 'why?'.
I understand Medicaid is expensive. Look at Canada, how do they handle it? (meaning the costs of universal health care)
I don't pretend everything is free. Cut the crap out of the military and let the Bush tax cuts expire as a starting point.
"I see people who sure post a lot but avoid responding to others......"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Healt ... t_rise.svg
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... omparisons
:shock:
Ah...the bottom line will take care of itself huh? I know that I expect a paycheck from work, I must be pretty greedy.
C'mon now, cincy, you know you agree with me on everything. You can admit it.
Who's avoiding the question of cost? I've said a million times that we can pay for universal care without incurring any additional costs than we're already paying for healthcare. I'm sure I've cited sources in the past, but what exactly do you need to know so as to be satisfied that this question is not being avoided?
Yes, yes it is. And that's why you need to get your facts straight before you start acting like you know what you're talking about.
1. There are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, more healthcare services for undocumented immigrants than for U.S. citizens.
2. Undocumented immigrants DO pay taxes and they DO pay into the healthcare system - they're just rarely allowed to use it. So one could argue that your burden falls on them more than theirs falls on you.
3. The children of undocumented immigrants, if they were born in this country, are U.S. citizens and have just as much right to publicly-funded healthcare as your children do.
I haven't yet read the thread past this post, but up to now you have failed to list one single healthcare program for undocumented immigrants. A few do exist, but your inability to name even ONE publicly-funded healthcare program for undocumented immigrants sure as hell doesn't back up your outrageous claim that they actually receive MORE healthcare benefits than the rest of us.
And why did you have to change this thread into one about immigration? Maybe you should start a new thread about immigration if it's so important to you.
What bill? We're talking about a specific bill now? I guess I missed that post. :?
As know1 astutely pointed out, there's a difference between health care and health insurance. Many people seem to confuse the two and think that people calling for universal healthcare are calling for the government to run healthcare. In reality, they're just calling for the government to fund a system of health insurance under which everyone will be covered. So they wouldn't be running healthcare at all - they'd just be paying for it.
The fact that we have a history of 63 years under the NHS, which resulted from state welfare initiatives first devised following the Boer War at the turn of the 20th century... we'll be damned if anyone's gonna take that away from us! Politicians know that fine well, even though they may not like it, that to present a manifesto scrapping the NHS would be political suicide. This underpinning of national healthcare is so ingrained in us that it keeps pharmaceutical companies in a relatively subservient relationship with the UK public...arguably, the way it should be! I am led to believe that the U.S really struggles to deal with the power the pharmaceutical companies hold in influencing government...with this being the case, how the hell do the people get the power back and get drugs at a suitably inexpensive price? When we in Scotland passed free prescriptions in April 2011, I really felt as if it was a big deal. I mean, it's fucking crazy! Fair enough, we were not paying too much prior...maybe a few pounds per prescription, but the idea of no additional cost for prescription besides our National Insurance can really be celebrated as a 'success' of the NHS.
My naive, generalizing nature leads me to simple 'should haves'...I feel the time for America to have sorted out healthcare should have been post WWII...that's when we formalized our NHS, whilst still very much in a genuine 'pulling together' national sentiment...at a time of crisis, you really can see the benefit in everyone pulling resources together for the good of all men (just a phrase...of course all women too...and perhaps children if there's any money left!
Therefore, I'd argue that America's post-war success was it's undoing, as it put healthcare on the back burner, allowing for private interests to take full advantage of the situation and lock the nation into this situation whereby elite influence is everything in US healthcare...It's as if the progressive era 'stopped' because the country was winning economically, but in doing so, failed to address the ongoing social problems of the poor...what kind of event would be required to overthrow and fundamentally alter the current relationship between private interests and representative government regarding healthcare? I thought Katrina would have been enough...perhaps it did provoke change in some; however, it clearly wasn't enough to provoke the kind of change in important places which WWII did for Britain. Unfortunately, I fear a continuation of the current situation in America :(
Hmm, random rant but I stand by whatever the hell I was trying to say!?!**!!??!!
Perhaps I wanted to point the discussion to why the US health care system has turned the way it has...I'm by no means an expert...would love to hear the opinions of others on this.
Regards,
Jamie
Leeds Festival - 25/08/2006, London O2 - 18/08/2009. London Hyde Park - 25/06/2010...upcoming... Manchester MEN - 20/06/2012, Manchester MEN - 21/06/2012
they are both christian doctors, and they follow christ's teachings of taking care of the least among us, because what they do unto them, they do unto christ...
perhaps more people should take the faith that they claim to have and insert that into their business dealings...the docs i work with do it and they are just fine financially.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."