Penn State Scandal

polaris_x

pjhawks wrote:

and the people responsible for those things are all suffereing the consequences. legally and with their jobs. should we close every catholic school and fire every teacher because the priests were molesting kids? should we close every high school where teachers have slept with students? punish those responisble and make the necessary changes so it doesn't happen again.

if a church had a priest molesting children and that church was known to have covered it up ... is it unreasonable to expect that church to shut down for some period of time?

Cliffy6745

polaris_x wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

and the people responsible for those things are all suffereing the consequences. legally and with their jobs. should we close every catholic school and fire every teacher because the priests were molesting kids? should we close every high school where teachers have slept with students? punish those responisble and make the necessary changes so it doesn't happen again.

if a church had a priest molesting children and that church was known to have covered it up ... is it unreasonable to expect that church to shut down for some period of time?

Um...

Monster Rain

Yes, it would be unreasonable to close the church if the people responsible were kicked out of the church and charged with crimes. Would you tell the homeless and poor people who receive assistance from the church, "Sorry you have to suffer even though we replaced the priest and everyone who covered up for him, but there have to be consequences for these actions?"

If it was discovered that the CFO of the company you work for had been embezzling money and the CEO knew about it would you find it reasonable to force the company out of business even if the board of directors fired both of them, they were charged with crimes, and your company could still afford to stay in business? I'd be willing to bet that you'd feel like an innocent victim of a needless overreaction.

polaris_x wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

and the people responsible for those things are all suffereing the consequences. legally and with their jobs. should we close every catholic school and fire every teacher because the priests were molesting kids? should we close every high school where teachers have slept with students? punish those responisble and make the necessary changes so it doesn't happen again.

if a church had a priest molesting children and that church was known to have covered it up ... is it unreasonable to expect that church to shut down for some period of time?

Jason P

I wonder how long it takes a stone to hit Beaver Stadium after it has been cast from Mt. Pious ....

DewieCox

I think it's a pretty ridiculous notion to shut down the whole university, but I've thought since the beginning that they need to suspend the football, if not the whole athletic program. It would be nice to see the NCAA step in and allow transfers without having to sit out a year, which I realize will never happen b/c they have an interest in seeing Penn return to prominence.

The Juggler

DewieCox wrote:

I think it's a pretty ridiculous notion to shut down the whole university, but I've thought since the beginning that they need to suspend the football, if not the whole athletic program. It would be nice to see the NCAA step in and allow transfers without having to sit out a year, which I realize will never happen b/c they have an interest in seeing Penn return to prominence.

spanier inviting him to watch joepa's last game in his box makes me sick to my stomach.

apparently spanier and the board knew about this whole thing for months before then. so wouldn't they have to report something like a grand jury investigation to the ncaa? if they did, i'd assume the ncaa would tell them to not let him on campus anymore. there's got to be some kind of ncaa violation pertaining to that part of this situation right?

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I think it's a pretty ridiculous notion to shut down the whole university, but I've thought since the beginning that they need to suspend the football, if not the whole athletic program. It would be nice to see the NCAA step in and allow transfers without having to sit out a year, which I realize will never happen b/c they have an interest in seeing Penn return to prominence.

spanier inviting him to watch joepa's last game in his box makes me sick to my stomach.

apparently spanier and the board knew about this whole thing for months before then. so wouldn't they have to report something like a grand jury investigation to the ncaa? if they did, i'd assume the ncaa would tell them to not let him on campus anymore. there's got to be some kind of ncaa violation pertaining to that part of this situation right?

Why would they have to report it to the NCAA? He had nothing to do with the football program at that point.

JK_Livin

If even if they did shut down football, the kids would still have their free education to fall back on.

The sad thing is that PSU will need the revenue from the football games to payoff all of the lawsuits.

It's just a difference of opinion people, so don't get a twisted up over it.

Jearlpam0925

Penn State's definitely not free for in-state residents.

Cliffy6745

JK_Livin wrote:

If even if they did shut down football, the kids would still have their free education to fall back on.

Sarcasm, I assume? Try again

http://higheredwatch.newamerica.net/blo ... king-61200

pjhawks

DewieCox wrote:

I think it's a pretty ridiculous notion to shut down the whole university, but I've thought since the beginning that they need to suspend the football, if not the whole athletic program. It would be nice to see the NCAA step in and allow transfers without having to sit out a year, which I realize will never happen b/c they have an interest in seeing Penn return to prominence.

yup because not letting the girls play field hockey would teach 'em. :roll:

DewieCox

pjhawks wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I think it's a pretty ridiculous notion to shut down the whole university, but I've thought since the beginning that they need to suspend the football, if not the whole athletic program. It would be nice to see the NCAA step in and allow transfers without having to sit out a year, which I realize will never happen b/c they have an interest in seeing Penn return to prominence.

yup because not letting the girls play field hockey would teach 'em. :roll:

Shit runs down hill.

I'm not saying it would be fair. Just there are bigger things going on at that school now than the girls field hockey team or the basketball team etc, etc. 100% focus needs to be put on making this whole scandal as right as they can make it.

polaris_x

Monster Rain wrote:

Yes, it would be unreasonable to close the church if the people responsible were kicked out of the church and charged with crimes. Would you tell the homeless and poor people who receive assistance from the church, "Sorry you have to suffer even though we replaced the priest and everyone who covered up for him, but there have to be consequences for these actions?"

If it was discovered that the CFO of the company you work for had been embezzling money and the CEO knew about it would you find it reasonable to force the company out of business even if the board of directors fired both of them, they were charged with crimes, and your company could still afford to stay in business? I'd be willing to bet that you'd feel like an innocent victim of a needless overreaction.

firstly, i said close the church for a period of time ... those homeless and poor (which honestly, i've never tied to the church more homeless shelters) can be serviced in neighbouring churches for the period of closure ...

secondly, i already stated that it isn't necessarily fair to all involved ... but just as your example ... how are the employees of worldcom feeling? ... they got the shaft for sure ...

but at the end of the day ... penn state football chose to protect it's brand because said brand rakes in millions upon millions of dollars for the school ... they chose money over those kids ... you can choose to find the minimum number of scapegoats and say its all good ... but to me that's not good enough ... the football program which is a major revenue source needs to be punished ... maybe take all the proceeds from that year and donate it to some victims of abuse ... i'm not sure but this notion that firing a few people is all that matters is inappropriate ...

edit: if a kid gets illegal gifts from some agent ... the whole program suffers ... it's sort of the same thing ...

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I think it's a pretty ridiculous notion to shut down the whole university, but I've thought since the beginning that they need to suspend the football, if not the whole athletic program. It would be nice to see the NCAA step in and allow transfers without having to sit out a year, which I realize will never happen b/c they have an interest in seeing Penn return to prominence.

spanier inviting him to watch joepa's last game in his box makes me sick to my stomach.

apparently spanier and the board knew about this whole thing for months before then. so wouldn't they have to report something like a grand jury investigation to the ncaa? if they did, i'd assume the ncaa would tell them to not let him on campus anymore. there's got to be some kind of ncaa violation pertaining to that part of this situation right?

Why would they have to report it to the NCAA? He had nothing to do with the football program at that point.

well i don't think you or i or anyone here knows what the ncaa's exact parameters are for reporting such things. i'd think a former coach who still has access to their facilities, still attends practices, still attends games, travels with the team to bowl games, goes to team functions etc etc etc that's being investigated for such heinus crimes is something you'd want to inform them of just to be safe.

JK_Livin

Cliffy6745 wrote:

JK_Livin wrote:

If even if they did shut down football, the kids would still have their free education to fall back on.

Sarcasm, I assume? Try again

http://higheredwatch.newamerica.net/blo ... king-61200

Sorry, I forgot how good PSU is at hiding/enabling/sweeping things under the rug. In this situation that means about as much as Joe Pa's 409 wins. You know that's not the reason the majority of people would be upset if something happened to the program.

EdsonNascimento

If this wasn't LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL then I don't know what is.

And that, is basically what all these colleges get penalties for. This lack of control seems to be worse than tatoos. A one year "hiatus" allowing the current players to transfer with no delay in play almost seems too little.

Allowing him to be around the program to the day of his arrest and not saying anything is lack of control. End of story.

Monster Rain

Churches do help homeless and poor people. Many churches participate in something called IHN, which is an interfaith group that gives homeless families shelter at churches for a short period of time so the families can get back on their feet. The families move from one church in the network to another, so closing the church would remove a piece of that network. Also, man churches will do a free meal. Around here, there are many churches that do this once a month. They try to do them when other churches aren't doing it so that there are as many free meals available as possible each month. Again, removing one church is harming the people who need that service even if it's just for a period of time (a month, a year, whatever).

More to the point of Penn State, who is still at the school that you blame for the mess? Paterno was fired, the other administrators involved are gone and awaiting trial. McQueary can't be fired because of whistleblower laws, but I'd say there's a good chance that the new coach brings in his own staff and replaces most or all of the coaches from Paterno's staff so there may actually be a way to legally get rid of him if they feel he did anything wrong (and since he said under oath that he believed he was talking to the police when he spoke with the University Police, it's a gray area into how much responsibility can be placed on him). If there's nobody left at the school to blame for the cover-up/willful ignorance/whatever you consider it, then how can you punish anyone else? Nothing done to punish innocent students will help Sandusky's victims in any way. Making football players choose between transferring away from their friends and teammates or giving up on football to stay at Penn State won't ease any emotional pain felt by the victims or their families. What good would come from that?

polaris_x wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Yes, it would be unreasonable to close the church if the people responsible were kicked out of the church and charged with crimes. Would you tell the homeless and poor people who receive assistance from the church, "Sorry you have to suffer even though we replaced the priest and everyone who covered up for him, but there have to be consequences for these actions?"

If it was discovered that the CFO of the company you work for had been embezzling money and the CEO knew about it would you find it reasonable to force the company out of business even if the board of directors fired both of them, they were charged with crimes, and your company could still afford to stay in business? I'd be willing to bet that you'd feel like an innocent victim of a needless overreaction.

firstly, i said close the church for a period of time ... those homeless and poor (which honestly, i've never tied to the church more homeless shelters) can be serviced in neighbouring churches for the period of closure ...

secondly, i already stated that it isn't necessarily fair to all involved ... but just as your example ... how are the employees of worldcom feeling? ... they got the shaft for sure ...

but at the end of the day ... penn state football chose to protect it's brand because said brand rakes in millions upon millions of dollars for the school ... they chose money over those kids ... you can choose to find the minimum number of scapegoats and say its all good ... but to me that's not good enough ... the football program which is a major revenue source needs to be punished ... maybe take all the proceeds from that year and donate it to some victims of abuse ... i'm not sure but this notion that firing a few people is all that matters is inappropriate ...

edit: if a kid gets illegal gifts from some agent ... the whole program suffers ... it's sort of the same thing ...

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

well i don't think you or i or anyone here knows what the ncaa's exact parameters are for reporting such things. i'd think a former coach who still has access to their facilities, still attends practices, still attends games, travels with the team to bowl games, goes to team functions etc etc etc that's being investigated for such heinus crimes is something you'd want to inform them of just to be safe.

I get what you are saying, but it's not like you have to report anyone with a criminal record or investigation being around a college team. Granted, his crimes are sickening, but I can't see how the NCAA is involved.

I can't see NCAA sanctions coming down at all. From a legal perspective, this is all outside the football program. The athletic department who was involved and the school in general are in some trouble, obviously, but I can't see it getting the football program anymore than it has.

Cliffy6745

JK_Livin wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

JK_Livin wrote:

If even if they did shut down football, the kids would still have their free education to fall back on.

Sarcasm, I assume? Try again

http://higheredwatch.newamerica.net/blo ... king-61200

Sorry, I forgot how good PSU is at hiding/enabling/sweeping things under the rug. In this situation that means about as much as Joe Pa's 409 wins. You know that's not the reason the majority of people would be upset if something happened to the program.

I don't get your point. You trashed the current players and their education when in fact they are getting a great education that will help them whether they play football or not. If you want to talk about everything else, go back 30 pages.

polaris_x

what good? ... it would finally show that penn state is culpable and accountable ... this wasn't the work of a few people ... this was penn state protecting penn state ... again - i feel bad for these athletes but at the end of the day ... it's football ... a game ... most of these kids are not going to play in the NFL ... the school was protecting the football program because the program is a huge money making venture ... which is why they need to suspend it for some time ...

is the opportunity for these kids to play 12 or whatever games of football so important that it supersedes accountability?