Why do we need to "believe" in God?

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

You did not have to say flaky doesn't lend well with a conversation...

I have stated at length what I know to be, how I learned it, and how I can not help anyone
learn about God.... one must experience God on one's own...makes sense.

I hope you can find God, this by losing the logical and letting your spirit go,

problem is one must first be open to the idea ...

we are a spirit, that we have a continuing soul

which you have stated at length you do not believe.

I think if you are happy where you are at
because of your beliefs
you will never be able to understand a believer.
You are biased and can not understand what we believe.

wrong pandora... more than once ive stated that i have a soul and that i identify it as my conscience. of course i do not think it survives beyond my death. as for spirit... that does live beyond our death... in the memories of those who loved us. damn my logical mind.


im not seeking to believe in any God... that is not my path. then again im not seeking to murder someone either but i constantly seek to understand the mind of a pychopathic killer. what was your point????

no point except you probably won't understand my mind... so flaky as it is

play poker much pandora???

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

We are little sponges as kids and so much is absorbed negative and positive before we even have memories. This is hugely what makes us, combination enviroment and genes.
I can't help but think your negativity towards the religious comes from negative religious experiences as a child. I don't think it could help but be that way. No control over that can one have.
I had none, no religious teaching or experience and was an atheist until the early 90's, I was approaching forty.
My not believing came from a logical place until I learned there is so much more to us than logical ... and here is where God is. One's logical mind will keep God away until the barrier is removed. It is up to each person to work on that barrier to find truth.
In some cases there is so much negative that is associated with God that the the barrier is it hard to remove... and logical remains the deciding force of who that person is and what their beliefs are. Although there is so much more available to learn.

...
Nothing to do with logic... everything to do with witnessing the disconnect between what people say and what people do. I know many Atheists who are kind, forgiving, understanding, charitable and loving... and many so-called believers who are not.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

I have stated at length what I know to be, how I learned it, and how I can not help anyone
learn about God.... one must experience God on one's own...makes sense.
I hope you can find God, this by losing the logical and letting your spirit go, problem is one must first be open to the idea ...we are a spirit, that we have a continuing soul which you have stated at length you do not believe.
I think if you are happy where you are at because of your beliefs you will never be able to understand a believer. You are biased and can not understand what we believe.

...
It must be an extremly difficult cross for you to bear. I'm being serious, here. It must be extrememly difficult for you to know God... and not being able to share that with you husband... your children... your friends... anyone in need.
I say this because it would weight so heavily on my heart to see people I love, in need... and not being able to do anything to help them along other than telling them they need to figure it out themselves... when I already possess the knowledge to help them.

Actually I have felt uplifted and free knowing God, as you might imagine.

My love and support for family friends is what they need from me just as yours do.

As I have said at length one must experience God themselves I can not give them God...
but you know this already.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

play poker much pandora???

I have never but my daughter is awesome at it!

I don't gamble ... I go with sure bets... like God

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

Actually I have felt uplifted and free knowing God, as you might imagine.
My love and support for family friends is what they need from me just as yours do.
As I have said at length one must experience God themselves I can not give them God... but you know this already.

...
Yes. But, you do not feel helpless when they are in times of need? It seems to me, it would be difficult to bear, sitting by and letting them hit rock bottom. But, I suppose... you have to do what you have to do, right?

Jeanwah

Something you should know about God lyrics

God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me,
Yoko and me,
And that's reality.
The dream is over,
What can I say?
The dream is over,
Yesterday,
I was dreamweaver,
But now I'm reborn,
I was the walrus,
But now I'm John,
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on,
The dream is over.

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

We are little sponges as kids and so much is absorbed negative and positive
before we even have memories. This is hugely what makes us, combination enviroment
and genes.

I can't help but think your negativity towards the religious
comes from negative religious experiences as a child. I don't think it could help but
be that way. No control over that can one have.

I had none, no religious teaching or experience and was an atheist until the early 90's,
I was approaching forty.

My not believing came from a logical place until I learned there is so much more
to us than logical ... and here is where God is. One's logical mind will keep God away
until the barrier is removed. It is up to each person to work on that barrier to find
truth.

In some cases there is so much negative that is associated with God that the the barrier
is it hard to remove... and logical remains the deciding force of who that person is
and what their beliefs are. Although there is so much more available to learn.

I find that a lot of people like myself, (and maybe Cate) were overly inquisitive at a young age, and the answers we got from religious folks were diversions or illogical.

I can't see why a loving God would pick and chose who to "let in".
Why do so many different Gods and religions exists in particular regions? Obvious answer: Because they are taught to children by people (parents). Shoved down their throats sometimes. Forced before they can even digest; even brainwashed.

There are too many contradictory ideologies in Christianty (what was imposed upon me as a kid) for me.

This is religion not God Jonny
so perhaps you have negative thoughts towards God because of what man taught you?
maybe?

What you learned at a young age perhaps put a barrier up and makes it difficult to accept God.
The logical mind is not allowing the barrier to be removed....?

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

Actually I have felt uplifted and free knowing God, as you might imagine.
My love and support for family friends is what they need from me just as yours do.
As I have said at length one must experience God themselves I can not give them God... but you know this already.

...
Yes. But, you do not feel helpless when they are in times of need? It seems to me, it would be difficult to bear, sitting by and letting them hit rock bottom. But, I suppose... you have to do what you have to do, right?

What power do I have more than you as a nonbeliever?

I pray for loved ones of course... I pray for many. But I can't make anyone believe or know God
as I have said, that one must find on their own.

Logical minds in time may find....

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

This is religion not God Jonny so perhaps you have negative thoughts towards God because of what man taught you?
maybe?
What you learned at a young age perhaps put a barrier up and makes it difficult to accept God. The logical mind is not allowing the barrier to be removed....?

...
Along those same lines... the God that you know may have elements of the God from religion. Certainly, the aspect of afterlife comes from religion. Your God is based upon your years of absorbing religion... on a sub-conscious level.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

We are little sponges as kids and so much is absorbed negative and positive
before we even have memories. This is hugely what makes us, combination enviroment
and genes.

I can't help but think your negativity towards the religious
comes from negative religious experiences as a child. I don't think it could help but
be that way. No control over that can one have.

I had none, no religious teaching or experience and was an atheist until the early 90's,
I was approaching forty.

My not believing came from a logical place until I learned there is so much more
to us than logical ... and here is where God is. One's logical mind will keep God away
until the barrier is removed. It is up to each person to work on that barrier to find
truth.

In some cases there is so much negative that is associated with God that the the barrier
is it hard to remove... and logical remains the deciding force of who that person is
and what their beliefs are. Although there is so much more available to learn.

I find that a lot of people like myself, (and maybe Cate) were overly inquisitive at a young age, and the answers we got from religious folks were diversions or illogical.

I can't see why a loving God would pick and chose who to "let in".
Why do so many different Gods and religions exists in particular regions? Obvious answer: Because they are taught to children by people (parents). Shoved down their throats sometimes. Forced before they can even digest; even brainwashed.

There are too many contradictory ideologies in Christianty (what was imposed upon me as a kid) for me.

This is religion not God Jonny
so perhaps you have negative thoughts towards God because of what man taught you?
maybe?

What you learned at a young age perhaps put a barrier up and makes it difficult to accept God.
The logical mind is not allowing the barrier to be removed....?

but this is the thing pandora... we didnt learn anything at a young age. man taught me nothing. man showed me nothing but contempt for my questions.

i fully understand the chances of getting me to believe in the nonsensical were slim but i seem to have no problem with fantasy fiction. but then again im not expected to take them as some sort of truth. so... :think:

and just so you know, my logical mind has abandoned me every now again when i found myself loving someone... im in hte middle if it as i write tis and i hate my nonlogical mind because of it. so dont tell me i dont have the capacity for things that are illogical cause clearly i do.. i just dont have time for the illogical that people push as truth, or a variation of it..

pandora

I did not know God as I was an atheist until age 40
I had very little, if any, subconscious religious references, as you put it,
never being taught religion.

Thankfully it is not that which has given me what I know to be true.

Truth is free to find once the logical mind is freed.
Once you know God it is the only logic needed and the puzzle pieces fall in place.

dignin

catefrances wrote:

but this is the thing pandora... we didnt learn anything at a young age. man taught me nothing. man showed me nothing but contempt for my questions.

i fully understand the chances of getting me to believe in the nonsensical were slim but i seem to have no problem with fantasy fiction. but then again im not expected to take them as some sort of truth. so... :think:

and just so you know, my logical mind has abandoned me every now again when i found myself loving someone... im in hte middle if it as i write tis and i hate my nonlogical mind because of it. so dont tell me i dont have the capacity for things that are illogical cause clearly i do.. i just dont have time for the illogical that people push as truth, or a variation of it..

Love is completely logical
http://www.youramazingbrain.org/lovesex/sciencelove.htm

catefrances

pandora wrote:

I did not know God as I was an atheist until age 40
I had very little, if any, subconscious religious references, as you put it,
never being taught religion.

Thankfully it is not that which has given me what I know to be true.

Truth is free to find once the logical mind is freed.
Once you know God it is the only logic needed and the puzzle pieces fall in place.

subconscious religious references are all around us. your country was founded because of religious ideology. so unless you grew up on the moon you were exposed to it, you just werent aware of it and just took it, now matter how benign it was, as part of the fabric of the society in which you grew up... that why its called SUBconscious.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

What power do I have more than you as a nonbeliever?

I pray for loved ones of course... I pray for many. But I can't make anyone believe or know God
as I have said, that one must find on their own.

Logical minds in time may find....

...
Well... off-hand, I would say the biggest difference regarding the power to help people is that you KNOW God... and I do not. Yet, your prayers are as ineffective as mine. You may be able to pray to God to help your loved ones... but, He will not. Your loved ones have to carry their own weight, while you sit by... helpless.
That doesn't bother you? Because it I know God... and was unwilling to share Him with my loved ones... especially when they most needed Him... it would surely make me feel sad.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

I did not know God as I was an atheist until age 40
I had very little, if any, subconscious religious references, as you put it,
never being taught religion.

Thankfully it is not that which has given me what I know to be true.

Truth is free to find once the logical mind is freed.
Once you know God it is the only logic needed and the puzzle pieces fall in place.

...
So... are you saying you lived for 40 years... and never heard of 'The Bible'?
Wow. You really must live out in the middle of nowhere... on Mars or something.

BinauralJam

catefrances wrote:

your country was founded because of religious ideology.

Please don't remind us, it's bad enough here.

catefrances

dignin wrote:

catefrances wrote:

but this is the thing pandora... we didnt learn anything at a young age. man taught me nothing. man showed me nothing but contempt for my questions.

i fully understand the chances of getting me to believe in the nonsensical were slim but i seem to have no problem with fantasy fiction. but then again im not expected to take them as some sort of truth. so... :think:

and just so you know, my logical mind has abandoned me every now again when i found myself loving someone... im in hte middle if it as i write tis and i hate my nonlogical mind because of it. so dont tell me i dont have the capacity for things that are illogical cause clearly i do.. i just dont have time for the illogical that people push as truth, or a variation of it..

Love is completely logical
http://www.youramazingbrain.org/lovesex/sciencelove.htm

i understand all that.... thats love being chemical. and im down with that. i call it illogical cause at times we find ourselves loving someone who isnt good for us or who we peg as just a friend. i know theres a difference between loving someone and being in love with them but when it moves from the former to the latter despite our best intentions for it to not be so, thats when it becomes illogical(for me anyway)... which perhaps may well be logical.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

but this is the thing pandora... we didnt learn anything at a young age. man taught me nothing. man showed me nothing but contempt for my questions.

i fully understand the chances of getting me to believe in the nonsensical were slim but i seem to have no problem with fantasy fiction. but then again im not expected to take them as some sort of truth. so... :think:

and just so you know, my logical mind has abandoned me every now again when i found myself loving someone... im in hte middle if it as i write tis and i hate my nonlogical mind because of it. so dont tell me i dont have the capacity for things that are illogical cause clearly i do.. i just dont have time for the illogical that people push as truth, or a variation of it..

man taught you religion... I have heard you speak on it... you are well versed
as are many atheists on the board... my point.
The correlation relevant.

Man taught you plenty that you rejected ... religion becoming illogical to you.
God becoming illogical to you.
God= Religion Religion= God

That may not be the case though... my point .... that the two are not the same.
If you can open thought to that possibility.

But perhaps you don't have time :?
it is you who were seeking to understand or was it just to disclaim what I know?

I am lost on the love thing...

I think it is logical to love that confuses my totally

love is the best thing our logical minds have ... it is real, tangible, needed to flourish
to learn and and grow in this life and beyond... it is all we take from here
it is saved

redrock

Cosmo wrote:

...
Nothing to do with logic...

As you say. Logic is not a barrier to spirituality and they do not need to be mutually exclusive, on the contrary.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

but this is the thing pandora... we didnt learn anything at a young age. man taught me nothing. man showed me nothing but contempt for my questions.

i fully understand the chances of getting me to believe in the nonsensical were slim but i seem to have no problem with fantasy fiction. but then again im not expected to take them as some sort of truth. so... :think:

and just so you know, my logical mind has abandoned me every now again when i found myself loving someone... im in hte middle if it as i write tis and i hate my nonlogical mind because of it. so dont tell me i dont have the capacity for things that are illogical cause clearly i do.. i just dont have time for the illogical that people push as truth, or a variation of it..

man taught you religion... I have heard you speak on it... you are well versed
as are many atheists on the board... my point.
The correlation relevant.

Man taught you plenty that you rejected ... religion becoming illogical to you.
God becoming illogical to you.
God= Religion Religion= God

That may not be the case though... my point .... that the two are not the same.
If you can open thought to that possibility.

But perhaps you don't have time :?
it is you who were seeking to understand or was it just to disclaim what I know?

I am lost on the love thing...

I think it is logical to love that confuses my totally

love is the best thing our logical minds have ... it is real, tangible, needed to flourish
to learn and and grow in this life and beyond... it is all we take from here
it is saved

well lets just say Man tried to teach me religion.. i wasnt having a bar of it as it turns out cause it couldnt be taught to me in a way id understand. it was more indoctrination than a seeking/sharing of knowledge. but then again religion isnt illogical to me pandora... i totally understand religion.i understand its place and purpose withinin our society, i always have. what i dont understand and had/have a great deal of trouble fathoming is the existence of God as a truth.