Why do we need to "believe" in God?

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

I did not know God as I was an atheist until age 40
I had very little, if any, subconscious religious references, as you put it,
never being taught religion.

Thankfully it is not that which has given me what I know to be true.

Truth is free to find once the logical mind is freed.
Once you know God it is the only logic needed and the puzzle pieces fall in place.

...
So... are you saying you lived for 40 years... and never heard of 'The Bible'?
Wow. You really must live out in the middle of nowhere... on Mars or something.

I do have alien blood mosquitos even afraid to bite

Of course I have heard of the Bible but have not read it ... I am saying that for 40 years
I had the same references... next to none ... so your theory goes poof!

You certainly fight against the possibility of God for someone who claims
not to be an atheist ... am I mistaken ... you have said you are searching
but that is not the vibe you give...

perhaps you can share what you have learned of God
that you have rejected as untruth and maybe what you have found that is a possibility
for you that seems could be truth to you

in other words what leads you to believe there is a God and what searches in your life
have proved to you there is no God?

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

but this is the thing pandora... we didnt learn anything at a young age. man taught me nothing. man showed me nothing but contempt for my questions.

i fully understand the chances of getting me to believe in the nonsensical were slim but i seem to have no problem with fantasy fiction. but then again im not expected to take them as some sort of truth. so... :think:

and just so you know, my logical mind has abandoned me every now again when i found myself loving someone... im in hte middle if it as i write tis and i hate my nonlogical mind because of it. so dont tell me i dont have the capacity for things that are illogical cause clearly i do.. i just dont have time for the illogical that people push as truth, or a variation of it..

man taught you religion... I have heard you speak on it... you are well versed
as are many atheists on the board... my point.
The correlation relevant.

Man taught you plenty that you rejected ... religion becoming illogical to you.
God becoming illogical to you.
God= Religion Religion= God

That may not be the case though... my point .... that the two are not the same.
If you can open thought to that possibility.

But perhaps you don't have time :?
it is you who were seeking to understand or was it just to disclaim what I know?

I am lost on the love thing...

I think it is logical to love that confuses my totally

love is the best thing our logical minds have ... it is real, tangible, needed to flourish
to learn and and grow in this life and beyond... it is all we take from here
it is saved

well lets just say Man tried to teach me religion.. i wasnt having a bar of it as it turns out cause it couldnt be taught to me in a way id understand. it was more indoctrination than a seeking/sharing of knowledge. but then again religion isnt illogical to me pandora... i totally understand religion.i understand its place and purpose withinin our society, i always have. what i dont understand and had/have a great deal of trouble fathoming is the existence of God as a truth.

Is this your logical mind then speaking correct? It sounds like it

catefrances

pandora wrote:

Is this your logical mind then speaking correct? [/color] It sounds like it

im not quite grasping your question.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

Of course I have heard of the Bible but have not read it ... I am saying that for 40 years
I had the same references... next to none ... so your theory goes poof!
You certainly fight against the possibility of God for someone who claims not to be an atheist ... am I mistaken ... you have said you are searching but that is not the vibe you give... perhaps you can share what you have learned of God that you have rejected as untruth and maybe what you have found that is a possibility
for you that seems could be truth to you in other words what leads you to believe there is a God and what searches in your life have proved to you there is no God?

...
Unlike yourself, I am completely able and willing to explain what i have learned in my search for God and the Truth:
First and Foremost... anyone who tells me that they know God... does not. Sure, they might believe to know God... but, in reality... they don't know Him. Why? Because this is the biggest quest in the history of Man. The person who truely knows God will not simply tell me, "I know God"... they will share God with me, so I will share God with others. To know God's love is to SHARE God's love. To keep God's love for yourself, sounds... well... kinda selfish.
In your specific case, you come off as awfully selfish... with an almost, 'I've got mine... get yer own' attitude towards Him. I believe God is greater than that and if He were to choose those who know Him... they would be the ones to share His love with all of Mankind.
If that is your religion... and it works for you... GREAT. Live long and prosper. But, don't expect me (or anyone else) to buy what you're selling. I know you will reiterate that it is FOR YOU ONLY... trust me... i do not want anything that you have.
I have also found that there are probably many roads that eventually lead us towards God. Any of the religions will take you there... even if you do not believe in Him... He will seek you out. All you have to be is kind and caring.
I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell... I don't know if there is another level of being after this one. All i really know is that this is the only one I truely knows exists and therefore, I need to do the best I can with the Time i'm given.
...
Any more questions of me?

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

Of course I have heard of the Bible but have not read it ... I am saying that for 40 years
I had the same references... next to none ... so your theory goes poof!
You certainly fight against the possibility of God for someone who claims not to be an atheist ... am I mistaken ... you have said you are searching but that is not the vibe you give... perhaps you can share what you have learned of God that you have rejected as untruth and maybe what you have found that is a possibility
for you that seems could be truth to you in other words what leads you to believe there is a God and what searches in your life have proved to you there is no God?

...
Unlike yourself, I am completely able and willing to explain what i have learned in my search for God and the Truth:
First and Foremost... anyone who tells me that they know God... does not. Sure, they might believe to know God... but, in reality... they don't know Him. Why? Because this is the biggest quest in the history of Man. The person who truely knows God will not simply tell me, "I know God"... they will share God with me, so I will share God with others. To know God's love is to SHARE God's love. To keep God's love for yourself, sounds... well... kinda selfish.
In your specific case, you come off as awfully selfish... with an almost, 'I've got mine... get yer own' attitude towards Him. I believe God is greater than that and if He were to choose those who know Him... they would be the ones to share His love with all of Mankind.
If that is your religion... and it works for you... GREAT. Live long and prosper. But, don't expect me (or anyone else) to buy what you're selling. I know you will reiterate that it is FOR YOU ONLY... trust me... i do not want anything that you have.
I have also found that there are probably many roads that eventually lead us towards God. Any of the religions will take you there... even if you do not believe in Him... He will seek you out. All you have to be is kind and caring.
I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell... I don't know if there is another level of being after this one. All i really know is that this is the only one I truely knows exists and therefore, I need to do the best I can with the Time i'm given.
...
Any more questions of me?

so tell me cosmo...

are you agnostic/searching/ a believer????

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

so tell me cosmo...

are you agnostic/searching/ a believer????

...
Yes.
I believe in something greater than myself... it may just turn out to be the power of Nature, chaos, random order or pure energy.
I am searching for something... mainly because I don't want to believe that this is all we get. I am hoping for the best... but, prepared for the truth.
A believer? Yeah... a believer in hope and faith and love. All of which are human and not attributed to God.
...
That is how I am able to accept Pandora's belief that she knows God... and reject her doctrine that she does know God. Just like all of those religions that share the very same presumption.
...
And yes... I also believe i will never find what I'm looking for... leastwise, not here... in this life.
Simply put... like that Chinese cookie once told me, 'The Journey Is The Reward' (in bed)

Stardog3..

I've read through the majority of this thread and have found it interesting yet very, very frustrating.

Who,exactly, is "God"? Or what is "God"? What does "God" do?

I attended Catholic school from Kindergarten through my senior year in high school. I even went to a private Catholic college. I've studied not only Catholicism, but, in general, religion and beliefs my whole life. I'm now 24 and have been non-practicing for about 5 years. I feel I have enough knowledge to determine that the majority of what I have been taught may work for others but it's not for me. From personal experiences, I feel that there's some sort of spiritual nature to life, but I have a hard time understanding the personification and capitalization of "God", or believing in this specific "God" in general. I always fall back on those questions in the beginning of my post when talking and no one really answers them. They're always obscure and just seem like BS. So I figured I'd throw out these questions to the people who are 100% certain in this thread.

EDIT: or for that matter, anyone's ideas on those questions.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

catefrances wrote:

so tell me cosmo...

are you agnostic/searching/ a believer????

...
Yes.
I believe in something greater than myself... it may just turn out to be the power of Nature, chaos, random order or pure energy.
I am searching for something... mainly because I don't want to believe that this is all we get. I am hoping for the best... but, prepared for the truth.
A believer? Yeah... a believer in hope and faith and love. All of which are human and not attributed to God.
...
That is how I am able to accept Pandora's belief that she knows God... and reject her doctrine that she does know God. Just like all of those religions that share the very same presumption.
...
And yes... I also believe i will never find what I'm looking for... leastwise, not here... in this life.
Simply put... like that Chinese cookie once told me, 'The Journey Is The Reward' (in bed)

i dunno about that cookie fortune... if i dont get to the destination then really the journey may well turn out to be worthless.

anyhoo....
why do you want to believe this isnt all we get??? i have no problem with this life is all were getting, so we better make it all we can. this doesnt mean thats how i live cause i know there are things i hesitate to do because there is a bigger picture that may well be of more benfit to me if i dont choose a particular path, no matter how much i want to.

has this thought of yours developed as youve gotten older? do you think its a result of you confronting your own mortality? what if this ONE`life we get is the truth??? you realise if that is the case then youll never know.

catefrances

Suave.27 wrote:

I've read through the majority of this thread and have found it interesting yet very, very frustrating.

Who,exactly, is "God"? Or what is "God"? What does "God" do?

I attended Catholic school from Kindergarten through my senior year in high school. I even went to a private Catholic college. I've studied not only Catholicism, but, in general, religion and beliefs my whole life. I'm now 24 and have been non-practicing for about 5 years. I feel I have enough knowledge to determine that the majority of what I have been taught may work for others but it's not for me. From personal experiences, I feel that there's some sort of spiritual nature to life, but I have a hard time understanding the personification and capitalization of "God", or believing in this specific "God" in general. I always fall back on those questions in the beginning of my post when talking and no one really answers them. They're always obscure and just seem like BS. So I figured I'd throw out these questions to the people who are 100% certain in this thread.

EDIT: or for that matter, anyone's ideas on those questions.

the personification of God is due to the projection of humans. we created God therefore he needs to be in a form we find comforting and nonconfronting.. strangely enough despite all we do to each other as humans, that seems to be in human form. God becomes approachable and more believable if His form is familiar.

Cosmo

Suave.27 wrote:

I've read through the majority of this thread and have found it interesting yet very, very frustrating.

Who,exactly, is "God"? Or what is "God"? What does "God" do?

I attended Catholic school from Kindergarten through my senior year in high school. I even went to a private Catholic college. I've studied not only Catholicism, but, in general, religion and beliefs my whole life. I'm now 24 and have been non-practicing for about 5 years. I feel I have enough knowledge to determine that the majority of what I have been taught may work for others but it's not for me. From personal experiences, I feel that there's some sort of spiritual nature to life, but I have a hard time understanding the personification and capitalization of "God", or believing in this specific "God" in general. I always fall back on those questions in the beginning of my post when talking and no one really answers them. They're always obscure and just seem like BS. So I figured I'd throw out these questions to the people who are 100% certain in this thread.

EDIT: or for that matter, anyone's ideas on those questions.

...
Welcome to the discussion...
Here are my answers to your questions:
Who,exactly, is "God"? I have no idea... but, when I find out, you'll be the fisrt one I'll tell.
Or what is "God"? God may simply be the power that drives the Universe... or the Universe itself. Or... He might be nothing other than Man's explanation for occurances in the natural world that Man just can't figure out.
What does "God" do? Apparently... He does everything or nothing or both. Personally... I have no idea.

Jeanwah

Cosmo wrote:

catefrances wrote:

so tell me cosmo...

are you agnostic/searching/ a believer????

...
Yes.
I believe in something greater than myself... it may just turn out to be the power of Nature, chaos, random order or pure energy.
I am searching for something... mainly because I don't want to believe that this is all we get. I am hoping for the best... but, prepared for the truth.
A believer? Yeah... a believer in hope and faith and love. All of which are human and not attributed to God.
...
That is how I am able to accept Pandora's belief that she knows God... and reject her doctrine that she does know God. Just like all of those religions that share the very same presumption.
...
And yes... I also believe i will never find what I'm looking for... leastwise, not here... in this life.
Simply put... like that Chinese cookie once told me, 'The Journey Is The Reward' (in bed)

Hypothetical situation: If you were involved in some tragic accident and were near death but survived, and you felt that you "met" God at that moment, would you then be happy? It sounds like this is what you're looking for: that moment you get to "know" God, or something.

Because I think you should stop trying so hard and just enjoy how good you have it before anything really bad happens.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

Suave.27 wrote:

I've read through the majority of this thread and have found it interesting yet very, very frustrating.

Who,exactly, is "God"? Or what is "God"? What does "God" do?

I attended Catholic school from Kindergarten through my senior year in high school. I even went to a private Catholic college. I've studied not only Catholicism, but, in general, religion and beliefs my whole life. I'm now 24 and have been non-practicing for about 5 years. I feel I have enough knowledge to determine that the majority of what I have been taught may work for others but it's not for me. From personal experiences, I feel that there's some sort of spiritual nature to life, but I have a hard time understanding the personification and capitalization of "God", or believing in this specific "God" in general. I always fall back on those questions in the beginning of my post when talking and no one really answers them. They're always obscure and just seem like BS. So I figured I'd throw out these questions to the people who are 100% certain in this thread.

EDIT: or for that matter, anyone's ideas on those questions.

...
Welcome to the discussion...
Here are my answers to your questions:
Who,exactly, is "God"? I have no idea... but, when I find out, you'll be the fisrt one I'll tell....

WHAT! youd make me wait?? :P

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

i dunno about that cookie fortune... if i dont get to the destination then really the journey may well turn out to be worthless.

anyhoo....
why do you want to believe this isnt all we get??? i have no problem with this life is all were getting, so we better make it all we can. this doesnt mean thats how i live cause i know there are things i hesitate to do because there is a bigger picture that may well be of more benfit to me if i dont choose a particular path, no matter how much i want to.

has this thought of yours developed as youve gotten older? do you think its a result of you confronting your own mortality? what if this ONE`life we get is the truth??? you realise if that is the case then youll never know.

...
I guess... purpose. Almost like there has to be something greater than working a 9 to 5 in a cubicle for 30 years.
And from the posts I've read from you... you sound like a kind and descent person. To me, that's all that matters. Religion does not have to be the road we take... definately the road not taken for me. The road of life is what I'm talking about. Believing in or not believing in God doesn't really matter... it is how you treat others. The thing I call 'God' is nothing like the man-like characiture in the Bible. He/she/It may just be something as simple as pure energy or complete knowledge of everything. I guess i'm hoping there is something greater to reveal to me... but, i'm not banking on it.
As for aging. Yup, i'm piling on the years. but, not afraid of death. I see death as the portal we all must pass... like it or not, we don't get a choice on this one. But, at least I know i will get one absolutely truthful answer... is there another level on the other side of death... or is there only a void. only on that side of death, will we know for sure.
Til then... yeah... live and be happy. I'm looking forward to th Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer 3-Day this weekend. I hope it doesn't rain.... but, I am looking forawrd to doing what I can... while i can... to make someone else's live a little better.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

Unlike yourself, I am completely able and willing to explain what i have learned in my search for God and the Truth:
First and Foremost... anyone who tells me that they know God... does not. Sure, they might believe to know God... but, in reality... they don't know Him. Why? Because this is the biggest quest in the history of Man. The person who truely knows God will not simply tell me, "I know God"... they will share God with me, so I will share God with others. To know God's love is to SHARE God's love. To keep God's love for yourself, sounds... well... kinda selfish.
In your specific case, you come off as awfully selfish... with an almost, 'I've got mine... get yer own' attitude towards Him. I believe God is greater than that and if He were to choose those who know Him... they would be the ones to share His love with all of Mankind.
If that is your religion... and it works for you... GREAT. Live long and prosper. But, don't expect me (or anyone else) to buy what you're selling. I know you will reiterate that it is FOR YOU ONLY... trust me... i do not want anything that you have.
I have also found that there are probably many roads that eventually lead us towards God. Any of the religions will take you there... even if you do not believe in Him... He will seek you out. All you have to be is kind and caring.
I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell... I don't know if there is another level of being after this one. All i really know is that this is the only one I truely knows exists and therefore, I need to do the best I can with the Time i'm given.
...
Any more questions of me?

seems like once again so many words are to discredit me or disclaim what I have said
almost your whole post ... :?

is this your nature :? seems like an incredible waste of time to be repeating yourself too
and very negative,

also you are very wrong ....

I never once said my beliefs are for anyone else, not for you or anyone
I know God is all I said. I am not alone many know God.

It has been you asking to understand and thinking somehow I could do that,
give you God, give you proof. Ridiculous.

I never offered God to you, never claimed I could show someone God


But this is a repeat and I think it should be I banging my head on a wall


You posted very little of your search or beliefs ... but I did get from your search
God is a him to you
that you believe in the religions of the world although you said I reek of reigion :?
That will always confuse me ... seems like a rude contradiction

and that you try to make the best of your life.

Also you believe kind and caring is all you need to be
and God will find you

If you believe kind and caring is all you need to be
you are not living this example here

I would think you would leave me alone after I asked to be
and stop making derogatory remarks like
I am from Mars... etc. I could go back and collect a bunch more
but people have seen your words as I have ... heard your tone, felt your vibe

You are not showing kind and caring or is this just to those you believe deserve it?

I believe unconditional love
is the highest plane and where God is and what God gives to us.


I would say your love seems conditional to those who share your opinions.

I try to respect and love those with different opinions, I may not understand them but believe
others have the right to have them

Like me knowing God I have that right...
you don't have to believe nor understand, never asked you to but you should not disclaim nor discredit me

you should follow your own words and be kind and caring...
right this your belief?

As we have said to each their own and be kind and respectful.

I have asked for no more questions so hopefully we can leave this be
I have spoke with cate as she thought I was ignoring

I have stated my opinion and would hope in my absence
I would not be talked about well unless it is kind and caring
and if it can't be probably ignoring is the way to go.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

...
I guess... purpose. Almost like there has to be something greater than working a 9 to 5 in a cubicle for 30 years.
And from the posts I've read from you... you sound like a kind and descent person. To me, that's all that matters. Religion does not have to be the road we take... definately the road not taken for me. The road of life is what I'm talking about. Believing in or not believing in God doesn't really matter... it is how you treat others. The thing I call 'God' is nothing like the man-like characiture in the Bible. He/she/It may just be something as simple as pure energy or complete knowledge of everything. I guess i'm hoping there is something greater to reveal to me... but, i'm not banking on it.
As for aging. Yup, i'm piling on the years. but, not afraid of death. I see death as the portal we all must pass... like it or not, we don't get a choice on this one. But, at least I know i will get one absolutely truthful answer... is there another level on the other side of death... or is there only a void. only on that side of death, will we know for sure.
Til then... yeah... live and be happy. I'm looking forward to th Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer 3-Day this weekend. I hope it doesn't rain.... but, I am looking forawrd to doing what I can... while i can... to make someone else's live a little better.

oh i am kind and decent.. awesome and modest too. but get on my wrong side and ill tear your head off. im a complex creature.

anyhoo...

there IS more to life than 9to5 for 30 years in a cubicle.. and that is up to you. its your life.. thats what the journey is about. youve allowed society to make that decision for you.. you need to take back your life and fuck 'em. stop doing it their way.

that energy you speak of is us. thats where it all begins.. and ends for that matter. that is my mindset.

Cosmo

Jeanwah wrote:

Hypothetical situation: If you were involved in some tragic accident and were near death but survived, and you felt that you "met" God at that moment, would you then be happy? It sounds like this is what you're looking for: that moment you get to "know" God, or something.

Because I think you should stop trying so hard and just enjoy how good you have it before anything really bad happens.

...
I'm going to say... I don't know.
I guess it all depends on how I accept or reject this experience. I mean, 'near death' and 'dead death' are two hugely different things. Once you pass into the realm of the dead... you ain't coming back. The whole near death experience might just be all of those religious images of angels and Jesus and God that have been written to memory and fire off as the brain short circuits... or, it might be the real deal. How would I know what was real... and what was imagined?
Again, I'm not trying so hard where it rules my life. But, in looking, I find beauty is the oddest places. For example, i was at the beach this weekend and looked at the way the sand was blown over the small dunes near the bike path... the way the dirt had been eroded by wind and water and the way it looked like a tiny scale model of the Grand Canyon as you fly over it going to PJ20. The whispy little grass, battered about by the wind... it was life... clinging on to almost nothing... yet, found a way to live.
That's one step of the journey.
So, you see, it ain't so bad.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

seems like once again so many words are to discredit me or disclaim what I have said almost your whole post ... :evil: is this your nature :ugeek: seems like an incredible waste of time to be repeating yourself too and very negative, also you are very wrong ....I never once said my beliefs are for anyone else, not for you or anyone I know God is all I said. I am not alone many know God. It has been you asking to understand :P and thinking somehow I could do that, give you God, give you proof. Ridiculous. I never offered God to you, never claimed I could show someone God But this is a repeat and I think it should be I banging my head on a wall You posted very little of your search or beliefs ... but I did get from your search God is a him to you that you believe in the religions of the world although you said I reek of reigion :arrow: That will always confuse me ... seems like a rude contradiction and that you try to make the best of your life. Also you believe kind and caring is all you need to be and God will find you If you believe kind and caring is all you need to be you are not living this example here I would think you would leave me alone after I asked to be and stop making derogatory :wave: remarks like I am from Mars :idea: ... etc. I could go back and collect a bunch :thumbup: more but people have seen your words as I have ... heard your tone, felt your vibe You are not showing kind and caring or is this just to those you believe deserve it? I believe unconditional love is the highest plane and where God is and what God gives to us. I would say your love seems conditional to those who share your opinions. I try to respect and love those with different opinions, I may not understand them but believe others have the right to have them Like me knowing God I have that right... you don't have to believe nor understand, never asked you to but you should not disclaim nor discredit me you should follow your own words and be kind and caring...
right this your belief? As we have said to each their own and be kind and respectful. I have asked for no more questions so hopefully we can leave this be I have spoke with cate as she thought I was ignoring
I have stated my opinion and would hope in my absence I would not be talked about well unless it is kind and caring and if it can't be probably ignoring is the way to go. :shh:

...
I'm sorry you had to put so much effort into that post... it must have been very hard for you.
But, in a nutshell, this is it:
"I try to respect and love those with different opinions, I may not understand them but believe others have the right to have them Like me knowing God I have that right... you don't have to believe nor understand."
...
Bingo! I don't believe you. Sorry, but that is the truth. If you respect and love different opinions... then you respect and love my opinion of not believing you. I am not denying you of the right to say you know God... no one can deny you of that. The simple truth is... I don't believe you.
Why can't you be happy for me?

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

I'm sorry you had to put so much effort into that post... it must have been very hard for you.
But, in a nutshell, this is it:
"I try to respect and love those with different opinions, I may not understand them but believe others have the right to have them Like me knowing God I have that right... you don't have to believe nor understand."
...
Bingo! I don't believe you. Sorry, but that is the truth. If you respect and love different opinions... then you respect and love my opinion of not believing you. I am not denying you of the right to say you know God... no one can deny you of that. The simple truth is... I don't believe you.
Why can't you be happy for me?

Why would you think I am not happy for you? :? Do you think I have an opinion about you?
That is strange. Oh maybe cause you have one of me.

You have been unkind in your words, tone,
and vibes this then because you do not believe me?

Wow that seems odd to me. You should have just said 25 pages ago you didn't believe me
instead of all the questions... still confusing this is

I know God and you don't believe me... who would have thunk it

so I guess that can be put to rest

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Do you think I have an opinion about you?
That is strange.

check the last post you made about him. it's rife with opinion about his character.

mickeyrat

I dont mean to rude, I really dont. I do want to know the name of this cult though. Where its based, etc.