Why do we need to "believe" in God?

pandora

that's about as angry as I get

Godfather.

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

I'm sorry, I didn't see Eddie mentioned in Cate's question that you quoted (and thus not really answered, unless it's all a joke for you and you're just 'deflecting').

I thought it was an interesting question and I wondered this myself - naturally not just regarding Pandora as I don't think we'll get a straight answer. I did mention something in this thread wondering how theists who believe in a god but not in religion and it's various 'books' (which is how the word of god is passed on) reconcile a god as some kind of 'concept' and the 'word of god' which is religion. Take what one likes (ie afterlife) and leave what one doesn't like? Then can one honestly disassociate god and religion?

but you answer your own questions with my quotes :?

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

So in all the posts you mention the afterlife, this was a joke? Do you therefore not believe in an afterlife?

eg

"Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear."
"....when they know without a doubt there is God and afterlife"
"I know there is an afterlife... I would now bet my life on it, and for the right reasons."

etc..

what's not to understand unless some people can not :?

Hi Pandi

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

that's about as angry as I get

...
Are you in the correct thread? This is the long one about believing in God and all. I think you are responding to a different thread because your reply makes as much sense as... well, it's like you answered 'Wombats' when some asked what is 2 plus 7.

pandora

Godfather. wrote:

Hi Pandi

Oh Godfather you are back! Bless your heart!!

That took my breath away just seeing your name

You have been very much missed!

catefrances

pandora wrote:

come on cate you know what I believe ...
if not reread please I have been more than clear

I thought you were above stuff like this ... guess not

stuff like this???? give me a fuckin' break pandora. :roll:

amazing how you engage all 'the nasties' yet i ask a simple question and i get stonewalled and accused of i dont even know the fuck what. all i know is you believe God is love and that you consider God separate from religion. now as i dont totally know exactly what you mean by that sometimes i have questions. i dont do flaky well so i tend to require solid answers to questions i have.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

come on cate you know what I believe ... if not reread please I have been more than clear
I thought you were above stuff like this ... guess not

...
Cate? CATE??? You okay? I hope you were wearing a helmet.
Don't say I didn't warn ya.

got a hard hard head cosmo.

reminds me of my days back when i was a kid searching for answers and instead of answering them so id understand or so i could perhaps see a way through(or not), my catholic priest just yelled at me and kicked me out of class.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

come on cate you know what I believe ... if not reread please I have been more than clear
I thought you were above stuff like this ... guess not

...
Cate? CATE??? You okay? I hope you were wearing a helmet.
Don't say I didn't warn ya.

got a hard hard head cosmo.

reminds me of my days back when i was a kid searching for answers and instead of answering them so id understand or so i could perhaps see a way through(or not), my catholic priest just yelled at me and kicked me out of class.

is that why you hate religion and don't believe in God?

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

come on cate you know what I believe ...
if not reread please I have been more than clear

I thought you were above stuff like this ... guess not

stuff like this???? give me a fuckin' break pandora. :roll:

amazing how you engage all 'the nasties' yet i ask a simple question and i get stonewalled and accused of i dont even know the fuck what. all i know is you believe God is love and that you consider God separate from religion. now as i dont totally know exactly what you mean by that sometimes i have questions. i dont do flaky well so i tend to require solid answers to questions i have.

I have spoke at length about the afterlife and why I know there is a path

I guess if you are interested read through the thread because I have repeated many times

always resort to insults ... why must some atheists be unkind? I don't get that,
maybe a superior attitude ... is that then condescending and arrogant towards a believer... ?

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

I'm sorry, I didn't see Eddie mentioned in Cate's question that you quoted (and thus not really answered, unless it's all a joke for you and you're just 'deflecting').

I thought it was an interesting question and I wondered this myself - naturally not just regarding Pandora as I don't think we'll get a straight answer. I did mention something in this thread wondering how theists who believe in a god but not in religion and it's various 'books' (which is how the word of god is passed on) reconcile a god as some kind of 'concept' and the 'word of god' which is religion. Take what one likes (ie afterlife) and leave what one doesn't like? Then can one honestly disassociate god and religion?

but you answer your own questions with my quotes :?

:?: You got me with this answer!

Are you trying to say you don't disassociate god and religion and you do believe in religion since you believe in the afterlife?

What would other theists think? Serious thoughts - not trying anything untoward here. Can religion be completely taken out of the equation when it comes to god? Any organised worship, any god - not just a christian type god (which seems the more prevalent here).

Also, just a lil' note in passing by. I much prefer the word theist than 'believer' for those those who believe in god. I believe (and therefore am a believer) but just not in god as it seems to be spoken of in general.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

is that why you hate religion and don't believe in God?

i dont hate religion. it makes zero sense to me, not to mention being oppressive and mysogynistic and so i have no respect for it. and i dont think i ever believed in God. i was born an atheist, as we all are... but i think perhaps i might have been agnostic when i was very young cause i didnt know and as a child youre constantly questioning the world around you. and being very young when people spoke of this God thing, i was looking for answers to the questions i had. but they never came and so me being the kind of child i was back then, i came to the conclusion that God was bullshit. and it is the only thing in my life i have never wavered from. and im okay with that.. however that doesnt stop me from being infinitely fascinated with the mindset that can put its faith in a God and/or religion. and that is the only reason i ask questions.

Godfather.

pandora wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Hi Pandi

Oh Godfather you are back! Bless your heart!!

That took my breath away just seeing your name

You have been very much missed!

and I you my friend.


Godfather.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

stuff like this???? give me a fuckin' break pandora. :roll:

amazing how you engage all 'the nasties' yet i ask a simple question and i get stonewalled and accused of i dont even know the fuck what. all i know is you believe God is love and that you consider God separate from religion. now as i dont totally know exactly what you mean by that sometimes i have questions. i dont do flaky well so i tend to require solid answers to questions i have.

I have spoke at length about the afterlife and why I know there is a path

I guess if you are interested read through the thread because I have repeated many times

always resort to insults ... why must some atheists be unkind? I don't get that,
maybe a superior attitude ... is that then condescending and arrogant towards a believer... ?

youre answers in this latest line of posts between us have been flaky.. it was a specific reference to that, not your entire line of posting irrespective of what i think of what youve previously posted. youve dodged my question by trying to get me to read back through 30 odd pages of sometimes mindnumbing bullshit. i wasnt prepared to do that, especially when i cant even be certain the answer im seeking is in there soemwhere. so i figured id just ask you outright in regards to a more recent post i read of yours and that could be the springboard for the discussion i was wanting between us.

i am not unkind, i am seeking answers. i am not superior, i am seeking answers. i am not being condescending nor am i being arrogant... my mind does not work the same as a believers.. that is why i have these questions and it is why i havent walked away from this thread.... but if you so desire i could put my condescension hat on so you can take the moral high ground. seriously pandora, you are a damnable person to have a discussion with at times.

pandora

We are little sponges as kids and so much is absorbed negative and positive
before we even have memories. This is hugely what makes us, combination enviroment
and genes.

I can't help but think your negativity towards the religious
comes from negative religious experiences as a child. I don't think it could help but
be that way. No control over that can one have.

I had none, no religious teaching or experience and was an atheist until the early 90's,
I was approaching forty.

My not believing came from a logical place until I learned there is so much more
to us than logical ... and here is where God is. One's logical mind will keep God away
until the barrier is removed. It is up to each person to work on that barrier to find
truth.

In some cases there is so much negative that is associated with God that the the barrier
is it hard to remove... and logical remains the deciding force of who that person is
and what their beliefs are. Although there is so much more available to learn.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

We are little sponges as kids and so much is absorbed negative and positive
before we even have memories. This is hugely what makes us, combination enviroment
and genes.

I can't help but think your negativity towards the religious
comes from negative religious experiences as a child. I don't think it could help but
be that way. No control over that can one have.

I had none, no religious teaching or experience and was an atheist until the early 90's,
I was approaching forty.

My not believing came from a logical place until I learned there is so much more
to us than logical ... and here is where God is. One's logical mind will keep God away
until the barrier is removed. It is up to each person to work on that barrier to find
truth.

In some cases there is so much negative that is associated with God that the the barrier
is it hard to remove... and logical remains the deciding force of who that person is
and what their beliefs are. Although there is so much more available to learn.

I find that a lot of people like myself, (and maybe Cate) were overly inquisitive at a young age, and the answers we got from religious folks were diversions or illogical.

I can't see why a loving God would pick and chose who to "let in".
Why do so many different Gods and religions exists in particular regions? Obvious answer: Because they are taught to children by people (parents). Shoved down their throats sometimes. Forced before they can even digest; even brainwashed.

There are too many contradictory ideologies in Christianty (what was imposed upon me as a kid) for me.

Lizard

pandora wrote:

My not believing came from a logical place until I learned there is so much more
to us than logical ... and here is where God is. One's logical mind will keep God away
until the barrier is removed. It is up to each person to work on that barrier to find
truth.

In some cases there is so much negative that is associated with God that the the barrier
is it hard to remove... and logical remains the deciding force of who that person is
and what their beliefs are. Although there is so much more available to learn.

This is my problem with religion and believing in god.
I always feel I have to ignore my natural "but.....what about....how come" questions in order to "believe".
I finally gave up a few years ago.

So.....I was raised a Catholic and "practiced" most of my life until recently.
My husband on the other hand was not raised religously.
We both have the same conclusions though...questioning whether there is a god.

I don't want to have to give up thinking logically. It does not seem logical to me to do that.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

stuff like this???? give me a fuckin' break pandora. :roll:

amazing how you engage all 'the nasties' yet i ask a simple question and i get stonewalled and accused of i dont even know the fuck what. all i know is you believe God is love and that you consider God separate from religion. now as i dont totally know exactly what you mean by that sometimes i have questions. i dont do flaky well so i tend to require solid answers to questions i have.

I have spoke at length about the afterlife and why I know there is a path

I guess if you are interested read through the thread because I have repeated many times

always resort to insults ... why must some atheists be unkind? I don't get that,
maybe a superior attitude ... is that then condescending and arrogant towards a believer... ?

youre answers in this latest line of posts between us have been flaky.. it was a specific reference to that, not your entire line of posting irrespective of what i think of what youve previously posted. youve dodged my question by trying to get me to read back through 30 odd pages of sometimes mindnumbing bullshit. i wasnt prepared to do that, especially when i cant even be certain the answer im seeking is in there soemwhere. so i figured id just ask you outright in regards to a more recent post i read of yours and that could be the springboard for the discussion i was wanting between us.

i am not unkind, i am seeking answers. i am not superior, i am seeking answers. i am not being condescending nor am i being arrogant... my mind does not work the same as a believers.. that is why i have these questions and it is why i havent walked away from this thread.... but if you so desire i could put my condescension hat on so you can take the moral high ground. seriously pandora, you are a damnable person to have a discussion with at times.

You did not have to say flaky doesn't lend well with a conversation...

I have stated at length what I know to be, how I learned it, and how I can not help anyone
learn about God.... one must experience God on one's own...makes sense.

I hope you can find God, this by losing the logical and letting your spirit go,

problem is one must first be open to the idea ...

we are a spirit, that we have a continuing soul

which you have stated at length you do not believe.

I think if you are happy where you are at
because of your beliefs
you will never be able to understand a believer.
You are biased and can not understand what we believe.

pandora

Godfather. wrote:

pandora wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Hi Pandi

Oh Godfather you are back! Bless your heart!!

That took my breath away just seeing your name

You have been very much missed!

and I you my friend.


Godfather.

hugs to you! ... this is a happy day for me!

I can't wait to hear the poetry ... this I have missed the most!

catefrances

pandora wrote:

You did not have to say flaky doesn't lend well with a conversation...

I have stated at length what I know to be, how I learned it, and how I can not help anyone
learn about God.... one must experience God on one's own...makes sense.

I hope you can find God, this by losing the logical and letting your spirit go,

problem is one must first be open to the idea ...

we are a spirit, that we have a continuing soul

which you have stated at length you do not believe.

I think if you are happy where you are at
because of your beliefs
you will never be able to understand a believer.
You are biased and can not understand what we believe.

wrong pandora... more than once ive stated that i have a soul and that i identify it as my conscience. of course i do not think it survives beyond my death. as for spirit... that does live beyond our death... in the memories of those who loved us. damn my logical mind.


im not seeking to believe in any God... that is not my path. then again im not seeking to murder someone either but i constantly seek to understand the mind of a pychopathic killer. what was your point????

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

You did not have to say flaky doesn't lend well with a conversation...

I have stated at length what I know to be, how I learned it, and how I can not help anyone
learn about God.... one must experience God on one's own...makes sense.

I hope you can find God, this by losing the logical and letting your spirit go,

problem is one must first be open to the idea ...

we are a spirit, that we have a continuing soul

which you have stated at length you do not believe.

I think if you are happy where you are at
because of your beliefs
you will never be able to understand a believer.
You are biased and can not understand what we believe.

wrong pandora... more than once ive stated that i have a soul and that i identify it as my conscience. of course i do not think it survives beyond my death. as for spirit... that does live beyond our death... in the memories of those who loved us. damn my logical mind.


im not seeking to believe in any God... that is not my path. then again im not seeking to murder someone either but i constantly seek to understand the mind of a pychopathic killer. what was your point????

no point except you probably won't understand my mind... so flaky as it is

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

I have stated at length what I know to be, how I learned it, and how I can not help anyone
learn about God.... one must experience God on one's own...makes sense.
I hope you can find God, this by losing the logical and letting your spirit go, problem is one must first be open to the idea ...we are a spirit, that we have a continuing soul which you have stated at length you do not believe.
I think if you are happy where you are at because of your beliefs you will never be able to understand a believer. You are biased and can not understand what we believe.

...
It must be an extremely difficult cross for you to bear. I'm being serious, here. It must be extrememly difficult for you to know God... and not being able to share that with you husband... your children... your friends... anyone in need.
I say this because it would weight so heavily on my heart to see people I love, in need... and not being able to do anything to help them along other than telling them they need to figure it out themselves... when I already possess the knowledge to help them.