Why do we need to "believe" in God?

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

Why would you think I am not happy for you? :? Do you think I have an opinion about you?
That is strange. Oh maybe cause you have one of me.
You have been unkind in your words, tone, and vibes this then because you do not believe me?
Wow that seems odd to me. You should have just said 25 pages ago you didn't believe me instead of all the questions... still confusing this is I know God and you don't believe me... who would have thunk it
so I guess that can be put to rest

...
Okay... again with playing the Victim Card. We get it... Cosmo is being mean, again.
I have no opinion of you, simply because I have no idea who you are. I don't know you, therefore, I have no opinion of you.
I have an opinion of your doctrine of God... the one that states that you know God... I'm glad you believe that and it makes you happy... but, I know you don't know God... now, happy trails to you. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt with you... to which you've apparently mistaken my candidness as unkind... and can somehow decipher tones and vibes across airwaves and wires... but, still, you are so far off target.
I said I didn't believe you from the beginning and have stated it all along the way. I do believe that you believe you know God. But, as far as actually knowing God... nope. Sorry.
...
If you want... I can lie to you and tell you that I know you know God.

ONCE DEVIDED

What about
If you know god exists
Give solid evidence of his being. Not a fairy tale but real evidence
otherwise its a crock of shit and should be banned

ONCE DEVIDED

sorry but im really over god right now

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

What about
If you know god exists
Give solid evidence of his being. Not a fairy tale but real evidence
otherwise its a crock of shit and should be banned

its called faith and therefore requires no evidence.. solid, real or otherwise.

ONCE DEVIDED

if it affects in any way others who do not share said beleif and faith
shouldnt proof be offered ???
personel faith isnt a bad thing its when they gang up on the rest of society that the problems begin

Thoughts_Arrive

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

if it affects in any way others who do not share said beleif and faith
shouldnt proof be offered ???
personel faith isnt a bad thing its when they gang up on the rest of society that the problems begin

Just like unions.

Thoughts_Arrive

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

What about
If you know god exists
Give solid evidence of his being. Not a fairy tale but real evidence
otherwise its a crock of shit and should be banned

its called faith and therefore requires no evidence.. solid, real or otherwise.

I have faith in you!

catefrances

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

What about
If you know god exists
Give solid evidence of his being. Not a fairy tale but real evidence
otherwise its a crock of shit and should be banned

its called faith and therefore requires no evidence.. solid, real or otherwise.

I have faith in you!

and thats as it should be.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

Why would you think I am not happy for you? :? Do you think I have an opinion about you?
That is strange. Oh maybe cause you have one of me.
You have been unkind in your words, tone, and vibes this then because you do not believe me?
Wow that seems odd to me. You should have just said 25 pages ago you didn't believe me instead of all the questions... still confusing this is I know God and you don't believe me... who would have thunk it
so I guess that can be put to rest

...
Okay... again with playing the Victim Card. We get it... Cosmo is being mean, again.
I have no opinion of you, simply because I have no idea who you are. I don't know you, therefore, I have no opinion of you.
I have an opinion of your doctrine of God... the one that states that you know God... I'm glad you believe that and it makes you happy... but, I know you don't know God... now, happy trails to you. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt with you... to which you've apparently mistaken my candidness as unkind... and can somehow decipher tones and vibes across airwaves and wires... but, still, you are so far off target.
I said I didn't believe you from the beginning and have stated it all along the way. I do believe that you believe you know God. But, as far as actually knowing God... nope. Sorry.
...
If you want... I can lie to you and tell you that I know you know God.

AGAIN....
I have not asked this of you or anyone else ...
to believe me....
just stated facts about myself

It is you who have asked to be shown repeatedly and the answer
the same from me...
Personal experience is how one finds God ... makes sense

Perhaps abusive and unkind attention comes from nonbelievers feeling threatened.


Otherwise one would think they would ignore me with my life experiences
that have brought me to know God. It would not matter so much.

Again abusers always blame others... classic.
In this case they say unkind words in a derogatory way...
then say that a person should not be hurt by them.

How bout you live by your words, your belief and try to be kind?
Seems like a good solution a win win.
God finds you and others are not a victim to your words.

redrock

pandora wrote:

.....nonbelievers feeling threatened.

By what?

pandora

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

if it affects in any way others who do not share said beleif and faith
shouldnt proof be offered ???
personel faith isnt a bad thing its when they gang up on the rest of society that the problems begin

I see many more atheists ganging up than believers here in our lovely PJ community.

Wonder why?

Why so threatened ... why not just let everyone have their own thing
Live and let live.

If I say I know God ... my convictions speak.... I know God.

If someone says there is no God, as they often do ....
let them speak.

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.

JonnyPistachio

Without the ability to further explain how one "knows God", I am just going to assume anyone who says they know God, mean they know God akin to how I know Pearl Jam...Meaning they have discovered them and they are familiar with their practices. Eddie, Mike, Stone, Matt and Jeff don't know me, but we have a relationship where we both depend on each other. I depend on their music as my religion, and they depend on their fans.

Again, I think maybe we are all confusing the term "know". There are many ways this can be taken.

I also know Jimmy Buffet.

Jason P

This thread should be re-titled "Why do we need to "not believe" in God?"

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Without the ability to further explain how one "knows God", I am just going to assume anyone who says they know God, mean they know God akin to how I know Pearl Jam...Meaning they have discovered them and they are familiar with their practices. Eddie, Mike, Stone, Matt and Jeff don't know me, but we have a relationship where we both depend on each other. I depend on their music as my religion, and they depend on their fans.

Again, I think maybe we are all confusing the term "know". There are many ways this can be taken.

I also know Jimmy Buffet.

I say I know God ... my convictions speak.... I know God.

How someone processes that is up to them.

As many here say there is No God let them speak ... others will process it the
way they choose.

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Without the ability to further explain how one "knows God", I am just going to assume anyone who says they know God, mean they know God akin to how I know Pearl Jam...Meaning they have discovered them and they are familiar with their practices. Eddie, Mike, Stone, Matt and Jeff don't know me, but we have a relationship where we both depend on each other. I depend on their music as my religion, and they depend on their fans.

Again, I think maybe we are all confusing the term "know". There are many ways this can be taken.

I also know Jimmy Buffet.

I say I know God ... my convictions speak.... I know God.

How someone processes that is up to them.

As many here say there is No God let them speak ... others will process it the
way they choose.

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.

I completely respect your beliefs Pandora. But if you are going to engage in a conversation of this type and leave out many reasons behind your proclamations, it will just have to be vague to the rest of us. It does make it hard to process.

ANd like Cosmo said, there are many, many questions that seem unanswerable...same questions that I have had all my life for priests, parents, friends, believers and non-believers. I've never heard a definitive response to why God picks and choses who he/she/it will "let in".

I'm sorry, but I cannot believe anyone "knows God"..these are MY beliefs, and should be respected just as well.

redrock

pandora wrote:

I say I know God ... my convictions speak.... I know God.

How someone processes that is up to them.

Why be so obtuse about it? A game to see how people react/process what is said?

I know Neil Young - shall I leave it up to everyone to 'guess' how, what the relationship is, etc. just to get reactions? I can clarify my statement if people wish to know - I won't play coy.

A lot of people here have clarified their position/their statements - whether theist, agnostic, on a path or atheists. What is so different about clarifying the term 'know' so we can all try to understand each other?

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Without the ability to further explain how one "knows God", I am just going to assume anyone who says they know God, mean they know God akin to how I know Pearl Jam...Meaning they have discovered them and they are familiar with their practices. Eddie, Mike, Stone, Matt and Jeff don't know me, but we have a relationship where we both depend on each other. I depend on their music as my religion, and they depend on their fans.

Again, I think maybe we are all confusing the term "know". There are many ways this can be taken.

I also know Jimmy Buffet.

I say I know God ... my convictions speak.... I know God.

How someone processes that is up to them.

As many here say there is No God let them speak ... others will process it the
way they choose.

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.

I completely respect your beliefs Pandora. But if you are going to engage in a conversation of this type and leave out many reasons behind your proclamations, it will just have to be vague to the rest of us. It does make it hard to process.

ANd like Cosmo said, there are many, many questions that seem unanswerable...same questions that I have had all my life for priests, parents, friends, believers and non-believers. I've never heard a definitive response to why God picks and choses who he/she/it will "let in".

I'm sorry, but I cannot believe anyone "knows God"..these are MY beliefs, and should be respected just as well.

again

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.


you can process what I say the way you choose Jonny.
I never asked anyone to believe what I know to be.
If someone does not agree that should be the end of story.

It is your belief as other atheists that no one can know God
others say they do know God.... pretty much a
agree to disagree subject

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

AGAIN.... I have not asked this of you or anyone else ...to believe me....just stated facts about myselfIt is you who have asked to be shown repeatedly and the answer the same from me... Personal experience is how one finds God ... makes sensePerhaps abusive and unkind attention comes from nonbelievers feeling threatened.
Otherwise one would think they would ignore me with my life experiences that have brought me to know God. It would not matter so much.
Again abusers always blame others... classic. In this case they say unkind words in a derogatory way... then say that a person should not be hurt by them.
How bout you live by your words, your belief and try to be kind?
Seems like a good solution a win win. God finds you and others are not a victim to your words.

...
Once again... I NEVER said anything about your asking me to believe you. I just don't happen to believe that you know God. That is it. It does NOT mean i hate you... it does not mean I am trying to shake you of your belief... it does not mean I don't believe in God... it simply means I do not believe YOU.
And what is this 'abuser' bullshit? I'm saying, 'YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM HERE... SO QUIT PRETENDING YOU ARE'. I am not abusing you... I am not being unkind to you... I am simply saying, I don't believe you. If you take my disbelief in you as unkind, I'm sorry... but that is on you, not me.
The simple reality is... I don't believe you. why can't you just accept that?

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

its called faith and therefore requires no evidence.. solid, real or otherwise.

...
Which is the foundation on which I operate. I have no problem with faith. I have no problem with Pandora's faith... just as I don't have problems with Christian's faith in Christianity, Muslim's faith in Islam, Jews faith in Judaism and Atheist's faith in nothingness. It does not mean i believe if Pandora's religion or Christianity or Islam or Judaism or Atheism... but, I accept everyone's decision to choose the faith that is best for them.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

AGAIN.... I have not asked this of you or anyone else ...to believe me....just stated facts about myselfIt is you who have asked to be shown repeatedly and the answer the same from me... Personal experience is how one finds God ... makes sensePerhaps abusive and unkind attention comes from nonbelievers feeling threatened.
Otherwise one would think they would ignore me with my life experiences that have brought me to know God. It would not matter so much.
Again abusers always blame others... classic. In this case they say unkind words in a derogatory way... then say that a person should not be hurt by them.
How bout you live by your words, your belief and try to be kind?
Seems like a good solution a win win. God finds you and others are not a victim to your words.

...
Once again... I NEVER said anything about your asking me to believe you. I just don't happen to believe that you know God. That is it. It does NOT mean i hate you... it does not mean I am trying to shake you of your belief... it does not mean I don't believe in God... it simply means I do not believe YOU.
And what is this 'abuser' bullshit? I'm saying, 'YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM HERE... SO QUIT PRETENDING YOU ARE'. I am not abusing you... I am not being unkind to you... I am simply saying, I don't believe you. If you take my disbelief in you as unkind, I'm sorry... but that is on you, not me.
The simple reality is... I don't believe you. why can't you just accept that?

I accept that fine Cosmo just wondered why you kept this going so long if it was so simple...
I have asked this of you before


one would think it should be a matter of

Let people have what they have and respect that and each other.


It is your belief/ opinion, as other atheists, that no one can know God
others do know God.... pretty much a
agree to disagree subject

this should be helpful in the future ... one would think :?