Hank Willams Jr. Ha Ha!

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

I did not push for him to forgive or anyone to forgive

Yes you did. It's what you always do in every thread. And quite frankly it's become very fucking boring.
People don't come to this message board to be converted to your own personal little God fantasy, yet you keep shoving it in everyone's face at every opportunity.

g under P told us about an experience involving Ted Nugent encouraging the rape of some girls at a concert, one of whom was his friend, and you then use it as an excuse to start patronizing him with your psuedo-religious crap again.
I'm not surprised he didn't bother replying to you.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Asking for forgiveness and receiving it are two different things. Some people whom ask for forgiveness... do it for themselves, not for the ones they are asking forgiveness from.
And if asked for and received forgiveness... why do they often times repeat the behaviour that prompted it?
I feel that people should receive forgiveness... if it is deserving... not demanded.
But, that's just me.

I agree

a heart never lies... like I said too bad we can't feel each others

to forgive is healing even more so for the forgiver

...
I disagree. Why?
Because, for example, I don't think that the Brown and Goldman families should need to 'feel' O.J.Simpson's heart.
They may or may not forgive O.J. for slaughtering their kids and getting away with it in such a public forum... that's on them and what I feel about iyt means absolutely nothing.
Or they can simply choose to dedicate their lives in honor of their slain children/siblings and give O.J. what he deserves from them... being completely out of their lives.
...
P.S. The heart does lie. Ask the person who loves someone so much... they murder them.

when victimized one must forgive to bring healing to themselves or they stay angry
and confined and possessed by the event, this when they themselves have been the victim.
If a loved one has been a victim it can be much harder to forgive but not impossible.

one doesn't have to forget but forgive...
this is how it is better for the forgiver then the forgiven

Murder is driven by many things but not love ... might be the loss of love, fear of that, lust, etc
but not pure love.
Well, unless perhaps a mercy killing, if you were thinking of that,
but then the heart is not lying, it is merciful.

I did mention in a previous post ...
a heart that knows no regrets knows no forgiveness
this might be the case in your example ... I do not know.


But hey you voted for Reagan twice? I was just a pup back then born in 56.

I had been wondering how many here actually knew President Reagan or
if they were commenting from history books. I guess you knew
and he was popular I think.

My father liked him, I was too young to care or pay attention but I noticed when gas went sky high
I think in 75. :shock:

Byrnzie

A Moving Train
Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new.


Oh well! So much for all that. This place has turned into a fucking circus. It's feels like a Republican Jesus camp here these days.
It couldn't be any further away from reasoned debate.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

I did not push for him to forgive or anyone to forgive

Yes you did. It's what you always do in every thread. And quite frankly it's become very fucking boring.
People don't come to this message board to be converted to your own personal little God fantasy, yet you keep shoving it in everyone's face at every opportunity.

g under P told us about an experience involving Ted Nugent encouraging the rape of some girls at a concert, one of whom was his friend, and you then use it as an excuse to start patronizing him with your psuedo-religious crap again.
I'm not surprised he didn't bother replying to you.

I didn't mention God :? nor religion to him or anyone

if I am so boring please ignore me that is what grown ups do... not insult

thanks in advance for that Byrnzie

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

I didn't mention God :? nor religion to him or anyone

This is what you said:

pandora wrote:

But do you think he has asked for forgiveness...I know I have asked for forgiveness for things done in my youth

Asked for forgiveness from who? Mickey Mouse? Donald Duck? His Mum?

You were preaching to, and patronizing him.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

I didn't mention God :? nor religion to him or anyone

This is what you said:

pandora wrote:

But do you think he has asked for forgiveness...I know I have asked for forgiveness for things done in my youth

Asked for forgiveness from who? Mickey Mouse? Donald Duck? His Mum?

You were preaching to, and patronizing him.

it is not to God it is to ones own heart Byrnzie ... a cleansing and purging
knowing and owning ones wrongs

sorry you misunderstood

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

when victimized one must forgive to bring healing to themselves or they stay angry and confined and possessed by the event, this when they themselves have been the victim. If a loved one has been a victim it can be much harder to forgive but not impossible.
one doesn't have to forget but forgive... this is how it is better for the forgiver then the forgiven

Murder is driven by many things but not love ... might be the loss of love, fear of that, lust, etc but not pure love. Well, unless perhaps a mercy killing, if you were thinking of that, but then the heart is not lying, it is merciful. I did mention in a previous post ... a heart that knows no regrets knows no forgiveness this might be the case in your example ... I do not know.

But hey you voted for Reagan twice? I was just a pup back then born in 56.
I had been wondering how many here actually knew President Reagan or if they were commenting from history books. I guess you knew and he was popular I think.
My father liked him, I was too young to care or pay attention but I noticed when gas went sky high I think in 75. :shock:

...
Regarding forgiveness... I don't speak for anyone other than myself. I think that each individual chooses whether or not to grant forgiveness to his/her trespassers. Who am I to tell them what they should or shouldn't do?

On lies of the heart... who is to say everything from the heart is love? You are basing your opinion on that factor... one which I disagree. The heart can harbor all kinds of stuff... including the dark side of love (envy and jealousy).

On Reagan... you were 24 in 1980, 6 years past the minimum voting age.... 28 in 1984. A pup... maybe in dog years... but, I first voted in 1976 for Carter over Ford.

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

it is not to God it is to ones own heart Byrnzie ... a cleansing and purging
knowing and owning ones wrongs

sorry you misunderstood

So you're now going to pretend that you were asking if Ted Nugent has forgiven himself?


Sorry, but that's possibly the worst attempt to move the goalposts that I've ever seen.


This is what you said:

pandora wrote:

forgiving us is what others do

and:

pandora wrote:

in my opinion only those who do not regret what they have done should go unforgiven

Maybe you should try and keep better track of all this sh*t you keep preaching to us. Maybe then you won't end up contradicting yourself.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

it is not to God it is to ones own heart Byrnzie ... a cleansing and purging
knowing and owning ones wrongs

sorry you misunderstood

So you're now going to pretend that you were asking if Ted Nugent has forgiven himself?


Sorry, but that's possibly the worst attempt to move the goalposts that I've ever seen.

It's as much owning and learning to forgive yourself and then learning from this.

This helps to avoid the callous way we treat others.

I know nothing about TN ... don't know his heart don't think others do either
unless they are just judging him as they do Hank Jr... a predisposed opinion.

I like to think the best of people though ... it works for me

Cosmo

Byrnzie wrote:

So you're now going to pretend that you were asking if Ted Nugent has forgiven himself?

...
I'm sorry, dude... but, this is fucking FUNNY! Ted Nugent... forgiving himself for banging 14 year olds in his tour bus back in '75.

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

I like to think the best of people though ... it works for me

And if it had been you or your daughter getting her clothes ripped off by a bunch of idiot rednecks at the behest of Ted Nugent you'd have stood there quite happy and content in the belief that Ted Nugent and all his horny redneck buddies were really all wonderful human beings who may one day ask for forgiveness and come to 'understand'?

Shit, if that's the case then why didn't those girls at that concert throw in a blow job for good measure?

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

it is not to God it is to ones own heart Byrnzie ... a cleansing and purging
knowing and owning ones wrongs

sorry you misunderstood

So you're now going to pretend that you were asking if Ted Nugent has forgiven himself?


Sorry, but that's possibly the worst attempt to move the goalposts that I've ever seen.


This is what you said:

pandora wrote:

forgiving us is what others do

and:

pandora wrote:

in my opinion only those who do not regret what they have done should go unforgiven

Maybe you should try and keep better track of all this sh*t you keep preaching to us. Maybe then you won't end up contradicting yourself.

I am speaking here of others forgiving us.
I'm sorry you don't understand do you also read the posts I am replying to or just mine?
You seem to single mine out.
I stand by what I said of course, as always, if it doesn't make sense to you perhaps avoid them
cause it seems to be a problem for us and I'm good with that ... you avoiding my posts.

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

I am speaking here of others forgiving us.
I'm sorry you don't understand do you also read the posts I am replying to or just mine?
You seem to single mine out.
I stand by what I said of course, as always, if it doesn't make sense to you perhaps avoid them
cause it seems to be a problem for us and I'm good with that ... you avoiding my posts.

Don't pretend that I don't understand your posts. I understand them perfectly well. You don't exist on some higher plane of wisdom than the rest of us.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

It's as much owning and learning to forgive yourself and then learning from this.

...
Pardon me for butting in... but, this statement sounds like a cop out to me. In my world... which I do not expect anyone to adhere to... I ask forgiveness of the person I've wronged. It is just too easy to grant forgiveness to yourself... it is difficult to face your wrong doings in the real world.
This is the problem I have with religion... laying all of our sins on Jesus' shoulders... makes us... well, kind of pussies. I will shoulder the responsibilities of my own sins and be held accountable for them.
But, that's just me.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

I like to think the best of people though ... it works for me

And if it had been you or your daughter getting her clothes ripped off by a bunch of idiot rednecks at the behest of Ted Nugent you'd have stood there quite happy and content in the belief that Ted Nugent and all his horny redneck buddies were really all wonderful human beings who may one day ask for forgiveness and come to 'understand'?

Shit, if that's the case then why didn't those girls at that concert throw in a blow job for good measure?

I didn't mean TN

again I do not know him as I have said

I think you like to go over the top

I don't

good night sir

ed243421

pandora wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iRReHtq_dk


LYRICS:

I'll keep my freedom
I'll keep my guns
Try to keep my money
And my religion too

Try to keep on workin'
Try to keep on smilin'
I will keep my Christian name and y'all can keep the change

I will keep my heroes
Pictures on the wall
I'll keep my family safe
You bluff when I call
I'm gonna keep my big V8
Keep my friends the same
Keep the government outta my business
And y'all can keep the change

This country sure as hell been goin' down the drain
We know what we need
We know who to blame
United Socialist States of America
How do ya like that name?
I'll keep the USA and y'all can keep the change

So FOX and friends
Wanna put me down
Ask for my opinions
Then twist it all around
Supposed to be talkin' about my father's new CD
Well two can play that "Gotcha' Game" just wait and see
Don't tread on me

This country sure as hell been goin' down the drain
We know what we need
We know who to blame
United Socialist States of America
Don't ya just LOVE that name?
I'll keep the USA and y'all can keep the change

I'll keep the USA and y'all can keep the change

Yeah, you can keep FOX and friends and ESPN outta your homes too
Cuz Bocephus and all his rowdy friends and his song is outta there!

I'm liking this ... he's good with lyrics

so was this the plan all along... song promotion crazy like a FOX!

I see Hank Jr for President!

shit like this is why pj hates touring the south

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

when victimized one must forgive to bring healing to themselves or they stay angry and confined and possessed by the event, this when they themselves have been the victim. If a loved one has been a victim it can be much harder to forgive but not impossible.
one doesn't have to forget but forgive... this is how it is better for the forgiver then the forgiven

Murder is driven by many things but not love ... might be the loss of love, fear of that, lust, etc but not pure love. Well, unless perhaps a mercy killing, if you were thinking of that, but then the heart is not lying, it is merciful. I did mention in a previous post ... a heart that knows no regrets knows no forgiveness this might be the case in your example ... I do not know.

But hey you voted for Reagan twice? I was just a pup back then born in 56.
I had been wondering how many here actually knew President Reagan or if they were commenting from history books. I guess you knew and he was popular I think.
My father liked him, I was too young to care or pay attention but I noticed when gas went sky high I think in 75. :shock:

...
Regarding forgiveness... I don't speak for anyone other than myself. I think that each individual chooses whether or not to grant forgiveness to his/her trespassers. Who am I to tell them what they should or shouldn't do?

On lies of the heart... who is to say everything from the heart is love? You are basing your opinion on that factor... one which I disagree. The heart can harbor all kinds of stuff... including the dark side of love (envy and jealousy).

On Reagan... you were 24 in 1980, 6 years past the minimum voting age.... 28 in 1984. A pup... maybe in dog years... but, I first voted in 1976 for Carter over Ford.

yes yes mixed my years up...I voted same year for Ford...there you go!

I do the same regarding forgiveness, of course you can not tell someone to forgive,
that is ridiculous, that comes from their processing and their heart.
We can only lend support and understanding to hopefully help in the process.
Many helped me to forgive... I am thankful for that.
I was drowning in hate, really stuck in events that I could not change.

I don't think I said the only emotion that comes from the heart is love ...
we are complex creatures, yes
but the conversation involved that and for me I focus on love because it is positive and I try not to surround myself in negativity. That is counterproductive for me and my path.
I have that choice as everyone does or not.

pandora

ed243421 wrote:

pandora wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iRReHtq_dk


LYRICS:

I'll keep my freedom
I'll keep my guns
Try to keep my money
And my religion too

Try to keep on workin'
Try to keep on smilin'
I will keep my Christian name and y'all can keep the change

I will keep my heroes
Pictures on the wall
I'll keep my family safe
You bluff when I call
I'm gonna keep my big V8
Keep my friends the same
Keep the government outta my business
And y'all can keep the change

This country sure as hell been goin' down the drain
We know what we need
We know who to blame
United Socialist States of America
How do ya like that name?
I'll keep the USA and y'all can keep the change

So FOX and friends
Wanna put me down
Ask for my opinions
Then twist it all around
Supposed to be talkin' about my father's new CD
Well two can play that "Gotcha' Game" just wait and see
Don't tread on me

This country sure as hell been goin' down the drain
We know what we need
We know who to blame
United Socialist States of America
Don't ya just LOVE that name?
I'll keep the USA and y'all can keep the change

I'll keep the USA and y'all can keep the change

Yeah, you can keep FOX and friends and ESPN outta your homes too
Cuz Bocephus and all his rowdy friends and his song is outta there!

I'm liking this ... he's good with lyrics

so was this the plan all along... song promotion crazy like a FOX!

I see Hank Jr for President!

shit like this is why pj hates touring the south

I wonder why some people must only be with like minds, this makes no sense to me.
You don't have to agree to love another human being.

You miss really good hearts that way and so much love!

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

It's as much owning and learning to forgive yourself and then learning from this.

...
Pardon me for butting in... but, this statement sounds like a cop out to me. In my world... which I do not expect anyone to adhere to... I ask forgiveness of the person I've wronged. It is just too easy to grant forgiveness to yourself... it is difficult to face your wrong doings in the real world.
This is the problem I have with religion... laying all of our sins on Jesus' shoulders... makes us... well, kind of pussies. I will shoulder the responsibilities of my own sins and be held accountable for them.
But, that's just me.

sometimes the person to forgive is no longer with us or perhaps it is yourself ...
that is not easy to do, forgive yourself and definitely not a cop out.

What is a cop out is insulting others and disrespecting among other things
and thinking that is ok.
No accountability for one's behavior or other's feelings.

I don't know about Jesus and if people really do that ... the Christians I know do not but I'm sure because the religion teaches that many do and that is fine by me. I certainly wouldn't judge them for it.

I did not bring up God or religion to the thread but I guess you have decided to.

Is it off topic from Hank Jr... debatable I guess.

Jason P

Geeze ... I'm gone for a few weeks and one of the hottest threads involves Hank Williams Jr. 8-)

Why do you drink?

Why do you roll smoke?

Why must you live out the song that you wrote?