The Death Penalty

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul wrote:

Considering this discussion, it really also just seems a lot easier to not have the death penalty. Cheaper too, unless they get rid of the appeals process....

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

A study done by the Sacramento Bee (March 28, 1988) suggests that California would save $90 million per year if it were to abolish the death penalty.

$78 million of these expenses are occurred at the trial level and would not be reduced by shortening appeals.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

And, for the record, maximum security isn't flawless.

Neither is the death penalty, as many innocent people have been killed.

unfortunately, TBU has already stated he prefers an innocent person be put to death rather than an innocent person be killed in society.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

And, for the record, maximum security isn't flawless.

Neither is the death penalty, as many innocent people have been killed.

unfortunately, TBU has already stated he prefers an innocent person be put to death rather than an innocent person be killed in society.

Not exactly, Hugh. Come on, man.

Show me where I said this.

otter

Stop the death penalty because it is totally wrong.

The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons. Build skyscrapers in the desert for our murderers and rapists and let them live out their lives in solitude.

If they are innocent we can let them go when we figure that out.

Death penalty is revenge conducted by the government.

Byrnzie

'Executions desensitize the public to the immorality of killing, increasing the probability that some people will be motivated to kill;
The state legitimizes the notion that vengeance for past misdeeds is acceptable;

Executions also have an "imitation effect" in which people follow the state's example. If people feel the government can kill its enemies, they believe they can too - Bowers and Pierce, 1980; King, 1978, Forst. 1983.'

Byrnzie

otter wrote:

The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons.

Or alternatively...


"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages." - Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)

chadwick

otter wrote:

Stop the death penalty because it is totally wrong.

The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons. Build skyscrapers in the desert for our murderers and rapists and let them live out their lives in solitude.

If they are innocent we can let them go when we figure that out.

Death penalty is revenge conducted by the government.

skyscapers in the desert?

again, many of us have stated, "if caught red handed in a vile monsterous act" with no time wasted those despicable freaks should be offed vs' wasting time & money on trials

like the bastards who destroyed dr. petit's family & his life. those two assholes deserve death as soon as possible

chadwick

if someone is willing to play evil by torturing innocence they deserve to be punished by lethal means as soon as possible. it is simple, it is just & it only makes sence to stop & remove evil from goodness

y'all put to much into this stuff. caught red handed fuckers do not deserve lengthy bullshit trials. swiftly they should stop breathing all over good people. this is done inexpensively

i am one of the most peaceful around. it is an eye for an eye & ridding our lives of monsters so innocence may sleep better at night

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Not exactly, Hugh. Come on, man.

Show me where I said this.

you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

'Executions desensitize the public to the immorality of killing, increasing the probability that some people will be motivated to kill;
The state legitimizes the notion that vengeance for past misdeeds is acceptable;

Executions also have an "imitation effect" in which people follow the state's example. If people feel the government can kill its enemies, they believe they can too - Bowers and Pierce, 1980; King, 1978, Forst. 1983.'

Fluff.

Here's some more fluff:

When society responds with a punishment befitting of the crime... only then does society understand the level of intolerance we have towards obscene and vile behaviour such as the murder of a child. 30 Bills, 2013

30 years of 3 square meals, internet privileges, sex dolls, magazines, books, physical activity, outstanding health care, fan mail, and someone doing your laundry for you somehow doesn't seem like justice for the rape, murder, and mutilation of an 8 year old girl. 30 Bills, 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Not exactly, Hugh. Come on, man.

Show me where I said this.

you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.

Moving up the ladder of inference.

I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.

I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

otter wrote:

The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons.

Or alternatively...


"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages." - Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)

The process is such only because we make it such. We really go out of our way to ensure child murderers have plenty of opportunity to show that somehow... they are not responsible for their atrocities.

It could be much quicker and much more efficient.

ajedigecko

chadwick wrote:

if someone is willing to play evil by torturing innocence they deserve to be punished by lethal means as soon as possible. it is simple, it is just & it only makes sence to stop & remove evil from goodness

y'all put to much into this stuff. caught red handed fuckers do not deserve lengthy bullshit trials. swiftly they should stop breathing all over good people. this is done inexpensively

i am one of the most peaceful around. it is an eye for an eye & ridding our lives of monsters so innocence may sleep better at night

truth.

chadwick

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

otter wrote:

The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons.

Or alternatively...


"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages." - Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)

The process is such only because we make it such. We really go out of our way to ensure child murderers have plenty of opportunity to show that somehow... they are not responsible for their atrocities.

It could be much quicker and much more efficient.

genius

i am even in favor of sword use

interesting fact some of you may enjoy: back in the norse/viking days, viking barbarians, would, after killing their rivals in battles, collect their swords, heat them up to glowing red/orange at the forging blacksmith sights & bend them around forming a course circular blade/sword.

this allows the vikings to halt the spirits of the men they killed in battle from coming forward & haunting them.

carry on...

chadwick

every single day, often throughout the day during these death penalty debates i am taken back & grow yet again extremely sad for mr. petit who lost his wife & two girls all because of one simple recipe... evil

i wish i could meet dr. petit & just hug him. that horrific event makes my soul ache every single time i think of it. william petit has incredible strength & has suffered unspeakable anguish. he is a pillar of everything humanity

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Not exactly, Hugh. Come on, man.

Show me where I said this.

you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.

Moving up the ladder of inference.

I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.

I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.

What needs to be said here, and what I will acknowledge, is that one is not even supposed to be in jail if there is a shadow of doubt towards their guilt. So, I recognize that one murderer should not be 'more guilty' than another.

I can live, in Canada, without the DP. I have been doing it for most of my life. I contend though, that our justice system and penal system is bankrupt. Byrnzie's quotes regarding the effect of the DP on society might be true, but the contrary might be true as well: I look at the overwhelming lack of accountability in our society and the mechanisms that support such attitudes and I get frustrated. Parents making excuses for their children. Parents making excuses for themselves. Companies justifying unethical behaviours. Employees cheating their companies. And the list goes on...

I think an argument could easily be made that this attitude starts at the top. When we are saturated with brutal stories such as many of the ones throughout this thread... and we witness the feeble defences put forth by lawyers and defendants... and we consistently are shocked at insufficient sentences... and we are consistently irritated by obscene behaviour from those already behind bars... is it any wonder some are calling for higher levels of discipline?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

chadwick wrote:

every single day, often throughout the day during these death penalty debates i am taken back & grow yet again extremely sad for mr. petit who lost his wife & two girls all because of one simple recipe... evil

i wish i could meet dr. petit & just hug him. that horrific event makes my soul ache every single time i think of it. william petit has incredible strength & has suffered unspeakable anguish. he is a pillar of everything humanity

I cannot believe what they were subjected to as well, Chadwick. As much as it is agonizing to us- think of Petit's days. He has remarried and hopefully he does experience moments of joy... but it is very likely he was, in effect, murdered that day too. An egg shell of the person he once was.

It might be just you and I... but I cannot believe the outpouring of support for the two shitbaggers that committed that crime. We humans like to think of ourselves as some awesome types of beings, but we are animals and always will be. On its most basic level... death is certainly warranted as a response and justice. Not to sound condescending... but how does one think ping pong and a nice warm jail cell makes us better? It's beyond me to comprehend such a train of thought.

I must be an ogre. Anyways... off to the Gorge for DMB shows. Enough of this topic for me... for now.

That is unless Byrnzie really irritates me somehow

chadwick

enjoy the gorge & the dmb
sounds fun & fucking hot as shit, yes?

william petit... yes he died that day
who wouldn't?

i often wish he & i were friends somehow. i'd just like to help him so his life would be smoother somehow :(

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Not exactly, Hugh. Come on, man.

Show me where I said this.

you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.

Moving up the ladder of inference.

I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.

I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.

what's good for the goose......you are repeatedly accusing those against the death penalty of putting criminals above innocent civilians.

I hope the point was made.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

It might be just you and I... but I cannot believe the outpouring of support for the two shitbaggers that committed that crime.

after all this time you just haven't gotten it. support for life is not equal to support for criminals.