The Death Penalty

lukin2006

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Except that we shouldn't let our government kill its own citizens. Ever. Or use murder to punish murder. Makes no fucking sense.

PS - why is everyone completely ignoring me in this thread? Kind of strange.... I don't think I'm being an idiot or anything, so...

It makes perfect sense: let the punishment fit the crime. Why would we sentence serial murderers the same as we sentence drug smugglers?

In Canada, pedophiles get less time than drug dealers. :fp:

Ridiculous.

I agree there ... but our justice system is ridiculous anyways.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Fair enough. Position respected.

likewise

Thirty Bills Unpaid

lukin2006 wrote:

makes no sense to me keeping the good paul bernardo breathing or the good colonel ... hell if we'd just taken care of bernardo he wouldn't be here to bitch about being moved to Quebec ... hell those 3 from Oklahoma are a waste of skin and are using good resources (called air).

Don't forget Poor little Tori Stafford and her murderer, Michael Rafferty- a real champ.

It's not enough that we house and feed them, but we also go to great lengths to ensure we give them their day in court and then some.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s ... rance.html

JimmyV

PJ_Soul wrote:

I think it makes no sense because punishing murder by committing murder puts the punisher on the same level as the punished. It sends a VERY bad message, and is morally inept.

So what do we do with kidnappers who imprison their victims in basements or cages? Do we not lock them up? Of course we do, and no one would reasonably argue that the government was on the same level as the kidnapper.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

chadwick wrote:

http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=216483
example of monster like behavior:
gouging out the boy's eyes for the corneas & the likelihood of selling them on the organ harvesting black market in china. this is out of order. i guess a woman done this vile act. whoever done this despicable act & those involved in harvesting organs (if caught) are up to their eyebrows in deep shit; i don't think china plays games.

carry on

In this case... let's hope you are right.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I think it makes no sense because punishing murder by committing murder puts the punisher on the same level as the punished. It sends a VERY bad message, and is morally inept.

So what do we do with kidnappers who imprison their victims in basements or cages? Do we not lock them up? Of course we do, and no one would reasonably argue that the government was on the same level as the kidnapper.

A strong point.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I think it makes no sense because punishing murder by committing murder puts the punisher on the same level as the punished. It sends a VERY bad message, and is morally inept.

So what do we do with kidnappers who imprison their victims in basements or cages? Do we not lock them up? Of course we do, and no one would reasonably argue that the government was on the same level as the kidnapper.

All things are not always equal (I know you realize that).

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I think it makes no sense because punishing murder by committing murder puts the punisher on the same level as the punished. It sends a VERY bad message, and is morally inept.

So what do we do with kidnappers who imprison their victims in basements or cages? Do we not lock them up? Of course we do, and no one would reasonably argue that the government was on the same level as the kidnapper.

A strong point.

Really? I thought it was incredibly weak.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

lukin2006

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

makes no sense to me keeping the good paul bernardo breathing or the good colonel ... hell if we'd just taken care of bernardo he wouldn't be here to bitch about being moved to Quebec ... hell those 3 from Oklahoma are a waste of skin and are using good resources (called air).

Don't forget Poor little Tori Stafford and her murderer, Michael Rafferty- a real champ.

It's not enough that we house and feed them, but we also go to great lengths to ensure we give them their day in court and then some.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s ... rance.html

Absolutely correct ... lets not forget Tori.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that executing a murderer places society on the same level as the murderer. He said (paraphrasing again) then why is it acceptable to imprison a kidnapper when it places society on the same level.

We weren't comparing kidnapping to murder at all. We were speaking to the point you made.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that executing a murderer places society on the same level as the murderer. He said (paraphrasing again) then why is it acceptable to imprison a kidnapper when it places society on the same level.

We weren't comparing kidnapping to murder at all. We were speaking to the point you made.

I do understand what's going on here, but thanks. As I said, all things are not equal. That's why one is acceptable and one is not, and what is annoying is that both of you know this but are acting like it's a valid argument.

JimmyV

PJ_Soul wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I think it makes no sense because punishing murder by committing murder puts the punisher on the same level as the punished. It sends a VERY bad message, and is morally inept.

So what do we do with kidnappers who imprison their victims in basements or cages? Do we not lock them up? Of course we do, and no one would reasonably argue that the government was on the same level as the kidnapper.

All things are not always equal (I know you realize that).

They are not always equal, I absolutely agree. This is why I believe that trying, convicting, sentencing, hearing all appeals, and then finally executing someone who murders a child does not put the government on the same level as the murderer.

JonnyPistachio

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that executing a murderer places society on the same level as the murderer. He said (paraphrasing again) then why is it acceptable to imprison a kidnapper when it places society on the same level.

We weren't comparing kidnapping to murder at all. We were speaking to the point you made.

One major difference between these two types of convictions is that if a mistake is made in finding a person guilty, one can be reversed and one cannot. Big difference, I think. Its an interesting point, but not comparable really.

lukin2006

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that executing a murderer places society on the same level as the murderer. He said (paraphrasing again) then why is it acceptable to imprison a kidnapper when it places society on the same level.

We weren't comparing kidnapping to murder at all. We were speaking to the point you made.

If your referring to that POS in Ohio ... he's also using up a nice resource air ... he doesn't want to die thats why he accepted the plea ... once that state knew that they should have took him down hard ... really kidnapping 3 people and putting him through what he did deserve something more than a just a jail cell.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

So what do we do with kidnappers who imprison their victims in basements or cages? Do we not lock them up? Of course we do, and no one would reasonably argue that the government was on the same level as the kidnapper.

All things are not always equal (I know you realize that).

They are not always equal, I absolutely agree. This is why I believe that trying, convicting, sentencing, hearing all appeals, and then finally executing someone who murders a child does not put the government on the same level as the murderer.

Ah, well that's where I disagree. Murder is murder. Killing another human being is wrong unless it's in self-defense. Period.

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Very strong as a counter to what you said. You cannot have an argument one way when it works for both sides.

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that executing a murderer places society on the same level as the murderer. He said (paraphrasing again) then why is it acceptable to imprison a kidnapper when it places society on the same level.

We weren't comparing kidnapping to murder at all. We were speaking to the point you made.

If we kill and are wrong...you can't bring them back...if they are imprisoned for life without possiblility of parole than we can let them go free. Or if a government wants to silence...and create a solid case..once those in power are removed maybe they can also be freed. Imprisonment to protect the public is rational...killing them is not. Big difference.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Totally disagree. Are you guys actually serious?? You think that comparing jailing people for kidnapping and murdering people for murdering as equal issues is reasonable when talking about a modern justice system? Gimme a break.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that executing a murderer places society on the same level as the murderer. He said (paraphrasing again) then why is it acceptable to imprison a kidnapper when it places society on the same level.

We weren't comparing kidnapping to murder at all. We were speaking to the point you made.

If your referring to that POS in Ohio ... he's also using up a nice resource air ... he doesn't want to die thats why he accepted the plea ... once that state knew that they should have took him down hard ... really kidnapping 3 people and putting him through what he did deserve something more than a just a jail cell.

Again I disagree. I think it's pretty fucking easy to be dead. Living in prison forever is way harder.

chadwick

grotesque deserves to be removed from decency. this is a simple understanding.

edit... some awesome things just can't be shared here. this is the 9th lengthy write up i've had to remove from today's sharing process :evil: