The killer's words:
"It feels wonderful to cause their death and to watch their pain," he said in one of 81 letters he wrote to a former girlfriend while awaiting his trial. The writings from the magna cum laude Southern Methodist University graduate were introduced into evidence.
"God forbid I ever had my finger on the button to launch a nuclear explosive device because I guarantee that I would wipe as many of these bastards off the face of the planet as I am able!" he said in another letter.
Without remorse, he also acknowledged the killings while testifying at his capital murder trial.
The survivors' words:
"His statement just showed more of the heart of the man," John Everett said after witnessing the execution of his brother's killer. "Very dark and very evil and very unremorseful."
"I was 12 when it happened," Robert Everett's daughter, Emily, said. "Now I'm grown, married, with kids, and my dad didn't get to see any of that. I feel my dad finally has justice after 15 years."
Bottom Line:
This murderer was a LOSER who gleefully killed and celebrated doing so. The victims feel that JUSTICE has been served. For those that disagree with my choice of words... feel free to substitute:
1. 'Misunderstood poor soul' or 'Human being just like you or I' for LOSER
and
2. 'Bloodthirsty revenge' or 'Murder' for JUSTICE
... and we can still get along!
* For the record... these crimes wouldn't fall into the spectrum of crimes I would advocate the DP for. Although there is a serial fashion to them, I generally support the DP for cases of the 'extreme' nature. For example:
The murder of children is an automatic. Leave our children alone.
Elements such as confinement and torture (encompasses rape) are qualifiers.
Mass or serial murderers qualify.
I read the whole article. The man was clearly mentally unstable. I thought there was a clause against executing the mentally ill in the U.S?
'Evidence showed he got into trouble as a juvenile, had drug possession and selling issues and wound up in state custody. He also had robbery and drug convictions.
While in prison, records show Feldman racked up 136 disciplinary cases, including one for ripping out the phone in a visiting cage where death row inmates are interviewed by reporters. Texas prison officials subsequently refused him media access.
The day before the fatal shootings, evidence showed he shot up a Volkswagen dealership where he once had some work done.'
When someone takes the life of someone else, they forfeit their rights that you suggest they should still hold. Is it society's right to lock someone up as well? Your line says 'no' to execution, but 'yes' to imprisonment. This is your line, but not mine. This doesn't mean you are right and it doesn't mean you are wrong- it's just your line.
Comparing the death penalty to playground bullying is a reach, but I'll play along for a bit.
I definitely teach my children to stand up for themselves if that is what you are asking of me.
My daughter, in grade 2, had two kids her same age hang her from the playground apparatus. She was too heavy for them to hold and she fell to the ground without much harm other than a burn around her neck. Of course, I am pissed, but left it to the authorities to mete out their justice.
3 days of garbage duty was the 'justice'. Fair enough I guess, but, of course, the 3 days were not even up and the one kid slammed my daughter's head into her friend's face while they were lined up- causing a nosebleed for her friend and slight trauma for my daughter. Now I'm really pissed. I'm visiting the school to talk to administrators who are very sheepish. In no uncertain terms, I spell out the fact that I will become a pit bull if another incident occurs. I demanded they deal with the incident in a little more forceful and effective fashion.
The limp and lame ladder of discipline established as policy in the school system has no effect on curbing unruly behaviour: too many fireside chats and too much coddling. Policies have empowered kids to act as they wish with very little consequence. Obviously, there are bigger problems in the home where parents have neglected their disciplinary responsibilities. A really, really soft approach to discipline has begun to erode the quality of our youth sector.
That's the sort of shit that breeds people like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
And a really, really soft approach to discipline in the real world has eroded the quality of our society.
I agree with you that coddling and the soft approach in the school system is bullshit. the parents are apparently blameless, and the teachers aren't allowed to do anything about it. it's broken and it sucks. a few teachers I'm friends with fucking hate parent teacher night, as they are INSTRUCTED to lie to parents who have a kid who isn't doing well. she once told a pair of parents how their kid was really doing, and they freaked out saying she was making some mistake, they couldn't be talking about their kid. it's unbelievable. but that's the society we live in right now, and it needs to change.
standing up for yourself, yes. retaliation, no. HUGE difference. same difference between killing someone in self defense and the death penalty.
so you really believe Columbine happened because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids without consequence? what news source were you reading about those two?
yes, imprisonment is taking away their rights. that is the least that needs to be done in order to protect society from further harm. taking their life does no measure of that. it's pouring gas on a house that is already burned to the ground.
I find it utterly disturbing no matter how many times I hear that people think it is their right to decide who lives and who dies. just baffling.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
When someone takes the life of someone else, they forfeit their rights that you suggest they should still hold. Is it society's right to lock someone up as well? Your line says 'no' to execution, but 'yes' to imprisonment. This is your line, but not mine. This doesn't mean you are right and it doesn't mean you are wrong- it's just your line.
Comparing the death penalty to playground bullying is a reach, but I'll play along for a bit.
I definitely teach my children to stand up for themselves if that is what you are asking of me.
My daughter, in grade 2, had two kids her same age hang her from the playground apparatus. She was too heavy for them to hold and she fell to the ground without much harm other than a burn around her neck. Of course, I am pissed, but left it to the authorities to mete out their justice.
3 days of garbage duty was the 'justice'. Fair enough I guess, but, of course, the 3 days were not even up and the one kid slammed my daughter's head into her friend's face while they were lined up- causing a nosebleed for her friend and slight trauma for my daughter. Now I'm really pissed. I'm visiting the school to talk to administrators who are very sheepish. In no uncertain terms, I spell out the fact that I will become a pit bull if another incident occurs. I demanded they deal with the incident in a little more forceful and effective fashion.
The limp and lame ladder of discipline established as policy in the school system has no effect on curbing unruly behaviour: too many fireside chats and too much coddling. Policies have empowered kids to act as they wish with very little consequence. Obviously, there are bigger problems in the home where parents have neglected their disciplinary responsibilities. A really, really soft approach to discipline has begun to erode the quality of our youth sector.
That's the sort of shit that breeds people like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
And a really, really soft approach to discipline in the real world has eroded the quality of our society.
I agree with you that coddling and the soft approach in the school system is bullshit. the parents are apparently blameless, and the teachers aren't allowed to do anything about it. it's broken and it sucks. a few teachers I'm friends with fucking hate parent teacher night, as they are INSTRUCTED to lie to parents who have a kid who isn't doing well. she once told a pair of parents how their kid was really doing, and they freaked out saying she was making some mistake, they couldn't be talking about their kid. it's unbelievable. but that's the society we live in right now, and it needs to change.
standing up for yourself, yes. retaliation, no. HUGE difference. same difference between killing someone in self defense and the death penalty.
so you really believe Columbine happened because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids without consequence? what news source were you reading about those two?
yes, imprisonment is taking away their rights. that is the least that needs to be done in order to protect society from further harm. taking their life does no measure of that. it's pouring gas on a house that is already burned to the ground.
I find it utterly disturbing no matter how many times I hear that people think it is their right to decide who lives and who dies. just baffling.
I've done a ton of reading on the Columbine incident. I'm very aware of what occurred and why it might have occurred.
That incident didn't occur because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids. The opposite of what you describe is what contributed to those two kids' mindsets. Their experience with no support from authorities led to their expression of rage.
I've done a ton of reading on the Columbine incident. I'm very aware of what occurred and why it might have occurred.
That incident didn't occur because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids. The opposite of what you describe is what contributed to those two kids' mindsets. Their experience with no support from authorities led to their expression of rage.
gotcha, and I agree. I misunderstood your point.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
More. So that it actually can have the effect of being a deterrent.
good god.
I said it earlier, Hugh. We are at an impasse. let's let it go at that.
I respect your opinion. I understand your perspective very well. But respect mine as well. I'm not a cold-hearted bastard that anxiously awaits the execution of convicted murderers. I'm the heart broken person that feels deeply for those that must be suffering beyond comprehension as they have been forced to survive the aftermath of their children taken in unimaginable fashion.
I've done a ton of reading on the Columbine incident. I'm very aware of what occurred and why it might have occurred.
That incident didn't occur because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids. The opposite of what you describe is what contributed to those two kids' mindsets. Their experience with no support from authorities led to their expression of rage.
I'm the heart broken person that feels deeply for those that must be suffering beyond comprehension as they have been forced to survive the aftermath of their children taken in unimaginable fashion.
we all are, thirty. we all are.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
More. So that it actually can have the effect of being a deterrent.
good god.
I said it earlier, Hugh. We are at an impasse. let's let it go at that.
we've been at an impasse the whole time. didn't stop us from going for 50+ pages.
I just don't get how killing more convicts will stop someone who commits the most heinous of crimes to second guess what they are doing because they might get the needle. that just doesn't make any sense to me. These people don't give a fuck about the repercussions. they aren't thinking about their end result. all they are thinking about is their own sick pleasure.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
we've been at an impasse the whole time. didn't stop us from going for 50+ pages.
I just don't get how killing more convicts will stop someone who commits the most heinous of crimes to second guess what they are doing because they might get the needle. that just doesn't make any sense to me. These people don't give a fuck about the repercussions. they aren't thinking about their end result. all they are thinking about is their own sick pleasure.
I guess I've always viewed it as more of the state's responsibility to the victim.
That being said, I do favor a system that is a little more equitable with the state resources. If someone is sentenced to death that admits to their crime I don't see any reason to spend years and millions of dollars on death row appealing, etc. That just makes the attorneys rich.
Those that are convicted to death who plead innocence deserve rights to appeal. Damion Echols certainly is a testament to that.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
we've been at an impasse the whole time. didn't stop us from going for 50+ pages.
I just don't get how killing more convicts will stop someone who commits the most heinous of crimes to second guess what they are doing because they might get the needle. that just doesn't make any sense to me. These people don't give a fuck about the repercussions. they aren't thinking about their end result. all they are thinking about is their own sick pleasure.
You are wrong.
It has nothing to do with entertaining sick pleasures... for me it has everything to do with offering the survivors a measure of relief. You and a few others wouldn't want the men who raped and burned alive your daughters and wife dead. William Petit isn't as forgiving as you and neither am I.
The two assholes in the Cheshire case committed an inconceivably inhumane act. Justice for the dead and justice for the survivor is not books, music, pen pals, and daily exercise. Justice is death. It's that simple.
While you say you cannot get your head around people 'wanting to murder convicted killers of extreme crimes'... I can't get my head around people 'caring more for the murderers than the victims'.
Go tell William Petit that his desire for seeing the two bastards that killed his family is sick. And also tell him that he shouldn't want that because it doesn't serve any purpose. Tell him that he doesn't have the right to take anyone's life. He'll likely respond by saying what right did the two shitbaggers have to take his family's life? Just tell him there is nothing we can do about that now so get on with living (or something like that).
we've been at an impasse the whole time. didn't stop us from going for 50+ pages.
I just don't get how killing more convicts will stop someone who commits the most heinous of crimes to second guess what they are doing because they might get the needle. that just doesn't make any sense to me. The criminals don't give a fuck about the repercussions. the criminals aren't thinking about what will happen to them if they are caught. all the criminals are thinking about is their own sick pleasure.
You are wrong.
It has nothing to do with entertaining sick pleasures... for me it has everything to do with offering the survivors a measure of relief. You and a few others wouldn't want the men who raped and burned alive your daughters and wife dead. William Petit isn't as forgiving as you and neither am I.
The two assholes in the Cheshire case committed an inconceivably inhumane act. Justice for the dead and justice for the survivor is not books, music, pen pals, and daily exercise. Justice is death. It's that simple.
While you say you cannot get your head around people 'wanting to murder convicted killers of extreme crimes'... I can't get my head around people 'caring more for the murderers than the victims'.
Go tell William Petit that his desire for seeing the two bastards that killed his family is sick. And also tell him that he shouldn't want that because it doesn't serve any purpose. Tell him that he doesn't have the right to take anyone's life. He'll likely respond by saying what right did the two shitbaggers have to take his family's life? Just tell him there is nothing we can do about that now so get on with living (or something like that).
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I've edited it in red so it's more clear.
I don't care for the murderers. I care about doing what's right, and killing ain't right. Simple as that.
If I knew William Petit, I would have no issue telling him how I felt. Again, I don't think he is sick. As I have said before, I may feel the same as him if I were in his shoes. But his feelings aren't necessarily how things should be carried out. If it were, a jury would be made up of the victim's families.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
we've been at an impasse the whole time. didn't stop us from going for 50+ pages.
I just don't get how killing more convicts will stop someone who commits the most heinous of crimes to second guess what they are doing because they might get the needle. that just doesn't make any sense to me. The criminals don't give a fuck about the repercussions. the criminals aren't thinking about what will happen to them if they are caught. all the criminals are thinking about is their own sick pleasure.
You are wrong.
It has nothing to do with entertaining sick pleasures... for me it has everything to do with offering the survivors a measure of relief. You and a few others wouldn't want the men who raped and burned alive your daughters and wife dead. William Petit isn't as forgiving as you and neither am I.
The two assholes in the Cheshire case committed an inconceivably inhumane act. Justice for the dead and justice for the survivor is not books, music, pen pals, and daily exercise. Justice is death. It's that simple.
While you say you cannot get your head around people 'wanting to murder convicted killers of extreme crimes'... I can't get my head around people 'caring more for the murderers than the victims'.
Go tell William Petit that his desire for seeing the two bastards that killed his family is sick. And also tell him that he shouldn't want that because it doesn't serve any purpose. Tell him that he doesn't have the right to take anyone's life. He'll likely respond by saying what right did the two shitbaggers have to take his family's life? Just tell him there is nothing we can do about that now so get on with living (or something like that).
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I've edited it in red so it's more clear.
I don't care for the murderers. I care about doing what's right, and killing ain't right. Simple as that.
If I knew William Petit, I would have no issue telling him how I felt. Again, I don't think he is sick. As I have said before, I may feel the same as him if I were in his shoes. But his feelings aren't necessarily how things should be carried out. If it were, a jury would be made up of the victim's families.
I did misunderstand your post. Obviously I took it that you were suggesting people to the contrary of you were the 'sick ones'. My apologies.
Your last statement speaks volumes about this debate: his feelings aren't necessarily how things should be carried out. If it were, a jury would be made up of the victim's families.
His feelings may or may not be how things should be carried out. It's impossible to say which side is right and which side is wrong. There are only personal positions regarding the matter. A thorough process supported by a jury of non-family members saw fit to sentence these guys to death. Whether they were right or wrong depends on one's perspective. Obviously, I'm satisfied with the decision, whereas you might not be.
Regardless of personal position... we're more the same than not. At least we care enough to discuss the issue- albeit... perhaps ad nauseum.
One of the murderers (Hayes) in the Petit case WANTS to be executed.
Victim wants death, murderer wants death, court sentenced him to death.....why the delay?
Painful, eh?
His own family wants him dead too.
Interestingly, scurrying to save themselves from an obvious death sentence given the depraved nature of the crime, both of these assholes agreed to life in prison without parole. But the prosecution and Petit would not accept the plea and pursued a more appropriate form of justice- death.
To his credit, Hayes has taken responsibility for the unspeakable crimes, Joshua is a flat out sociopath that, in true vermin fashion, is trying to downplay his role in the calamity. No, Josh. You are a pedophiliac scumbag that targeted an 11 year old in a supermarket, followed her home, and then convinced your shitbagger buddy to rob the home later.
Hayes likely didn't know what Josh's true intentions were: to rape the 11 year old girl. It looks as if he thought this was going to be a simple break and enter; however, he was more than willing to participate in the raping and murdering once that opportunity was afforded to him. After setting the girls on fire, Hayes left the house laughing and wearing one of the daughter's hats. Was that fun? Did you have a good time?
Just a freaking nightmare that Petit will awake from, but always remember, when these two dirtbags die. I wish him well and I support him from afar as he seeks justice for his dead loved ones.
One of the murderers (Hayes) in the Petit case WANTS to be executed.
Victim wants death, murderer wants death, court sentenced him to death.....why the delay?
Because killing is wrong. State sponsored killing is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Not even considering all the flaws in choosing who lives and who dies.
One of the murderers (Hayes) in the Petit case WANTS to be executed.
Victim wants death, murderer wants death, court sentenced him to death.....why the delay?
Because killing is wrong. State sponsored killing is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Not even considering all the flaws in choosing who lives and who dies.
I think it's wrong to force a victim to pay for their attackers room and board for the remainder of their lives.
As I said before, I'm definitely in favor of checks and balances when it comes to the DP. But it you have a guilty plea I don't see any reason to walk the convicted out of the courtroom straight to the chamber.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
One of the murderers (Hayes) in the Petit case WANTS to be executed.
Victim wants death, murderer wants death, court sentenced him to death.....why the delay?
Because killing is wrong. State sponsored killing is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Not even considering all the flaws in choosing who lives and who dies.
Which two wrongs do you speak of?
The rapes and murders were definitely wrongs, but the sentence of death is not a wrong. It's only half the room that feels that way. The other half of the room, including the courts and people such as myself see it as justice. For this case, ping pong, clean linen, warm meals, daily exercise, books, music, and pen pals will not suffice as justice.
Your opinion counts as much as mine or anyone else's for that matter, but it is insignificant compared to William Petit's. A death sentence was an option and the prosecution and he wanted it even though they had a 'life without parole' plea on the table saving them a ton of effort. Obviously, for the people truly affected by the crime, justice amounted to death. I don't blame them one bit for wanting the DP. I place sole responsibility for the crime on the 2 shitbaggers that perpetrated it. If they had acted even remotely like human beings, the Petit girls would be alive and we wouldn't be discussing what to do with these pieces of shit.
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
ok but being better than them is really utilizing laws and due process...which they didn't give to their victims
If the law is that you will be put to death for certain crimes then so be it.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
ok but being better than them is really utilizing laws and due process...which they didn't give to their victims
If the law is that you will be put to death for certain crimes then so be it.
There are some fked up laws on books as is the ability to give the state ability to permanently silence. Killing is wrong.
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
And ignore the victims' cries for justice in the process?
Why dismiss their needs and essentially reduce them to onlookers in the back of the courtroom?
Callen... no offence intended, but to my way of thinking, such a mentality tends to focus more on the shitbirds than the victims. After what these two losers did... they deserve nothing in my mind other than a way out much more peaceful and painless than what they provided to the women they raped and murdered. We are rising above these two by affording them this. If we wanted an eye for an eye... we would have them tied, raped and burned alive. Let's not get too carried away with how much we are prepared to tender mercy.
Don't lose sight of what they did. Our response to their depraved nature and the inhumane treatment of those girls should reflect our level of disdain. They should not be 'doing time' like a bank robber, car thief, or drug dealer might. These special cats have forced our hand- we don't wish to deal with this event, but seeing as they thrust it upon us... well... good-bye.
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
You're fighting the good fight here. Keep it up. I agree with all you say but there is a segment who will never see it this way and I gave up trying to convince them awhile back.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
You're fighting the good fight here. Keep it up. I agree with all you say but there is a segment who will never see it this way and I gave up trying to convince them awhile back.
Yah. You're probably right. Fuk the victims- they're already gone. And the survivors: get over it, man.
Let's focus on rehabilitating the poor murderers or at least treating them with as much compassion as we can.
You wonder why you're having a hard time convincing the 'segment'?
while I can understand the sentiment that states shouldn't be in the business of killing people when i see stories like the one recently on HBO about the Chesire CT murders I can't help but think that some people just don't deserve to be of this earth anymore. To me in certain rare cases I think death is a reasonable end game.
Gents: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs. But let's not do what they do.
Peace.
Callen
You're fighting the good fight here. Keep it up. I agree with all you say but there is a segment who will never see it this way and I gave up trying to convince them awhile back.
Yah. You're probably right. Fuk the victims- they're already gone. And the survivors: get over it, man.
Let's focus on rehabilitating the poor murderers or at least treating them with as much compassion as we can.
You wonder why you're having a hard time convincing the 'segment'?
I didn't say any of that.
I just think murder - no matter who is murdering - is wrong.
Secondly, I think it's wrong to take comfort, pleasure, solace, healing, etc. from someone being killed - no matter who they are.
I'm not saying ANYTHING about rehabilitating the criminal or any of that extra stuff you tried to throw in there.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
while I can understand the sentiment that states shouldn't be in the business of killing people when i see stories like the one recently on HBO about the Chesire CT murders I can't help but think that some people just don't deserve to be of this earth anymore. To me in certain rare cases I think death is a reasonable end game.
I have a hard time "justifying" killing. Yeah there are some scumbags that are a waste of oxygen...but killing is wrong. Having the mob agree to lynch doesn't make it right.
In 20 years, we as a society will look back at this subject and wonder what we were thinking. Most civilized countries in world today have stopped "killing" their prisoners.
Other than being barbaric, innocent people will be executed. Also understand victims families wanting revenge..as would I if something happened to one of my loved ones...but that's why we need rational people to intervene...
Comments
I read the whole article. The man was clearly mentally unstable. I thought there was a clause against executing the mentally ill in the U.S?
'Evidence showed he got into trouble as a juvenile, had drug possession and selling issues and wound up in state custody. He also had robbery and drug convictions.
While in prison, records show Feldman racked up 136 disciplinary cases, including one for ripping out the phone in a visiting cage where death row inmates are interviewed by reporters. Texas prison officials subsequently refused him media access.
The day before the fatal shootings, evidence showed he shot up a Volkswagen dealership where he once had some work done.'
Yeah. Very clever.
...not.
I agree with you that coddling and the soft approach in the school system is bullshit. the parents are apparently blameless, and the teachers aren't allowed to do anything about it. it's broken and it sucks. a few teachers I'm friends with fucking hate parent teacher night, as they are INSTRUCTED to lie to parents who have a kid who isn't doing well. she once told a pair of parents how their kid was really doing, and they freaked out saying she was making some mistake, they couldn't be talking about their kid. it's unbelievable. but that's the society we live in right now, and it needs to change.
standing up for yourself, yes. retaliation, no. HUGE difference. same difference between killing someone in self defense and the death penalty.
so you really believe Columbine happened because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids without consequence? what news source were you reading about those two?
yes, imprisonment is taking away their rights. that is the least that needs to be done in order to protect society from further harm. taking their life does no measure of that. it's pouring gas on a house that is already burned to the ground.
I find it utterly disturbing no matter how many times I hear that people think it is their right to decide who lives and who dies. just baffling.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
as it should be? how do these scholars claim it should it be used?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I've done a ton of reading on the Columbine incident. I'm very aware of what occurred and why it might have occurred.
That incident didn't occur because Eric and Dylan were allowed to run roughshod and bully other kids. The opposite of what you describe is what contributed to those two kids' mindsets. Their experience with no support from authorities led to their expression of rage.
More. So that it actually can have the effect of being a deterrent.
good god.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
gotcha, and I agree. I misunderstood your point.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I said it earlier, Hugh. We are at an impasse. let's let it go at that.
I respect your opinion. I understand your perspective very well. But respect mine as well. I'm not a cold-hearted bastard that anxiously awaits the execution of convicted murderers. I'm the heart broken person that feels deeply for those that must be suffering beyond comprehension as they have been forced to survive the aftermath of their children taken in unimaginable fashion.
All good.
we all are, thirty. we all are.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
we've been at an impasse the whole time. didn't stop us from going for 50+ pages.
I just don't get how killing more convicts will stop someone who commits the most heinous of crimes to second guess what they are doing because they might get the needle. that just doesn't make any sense to me. These people don't give a fuck about the repercussions. they aren't thinking about their end result. all they are thinking about is their own sick pleasure.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I guess I've always viewed it as more of the state's responsibility to the victim.
That being said, I do favor a system that is a little more equitable with the state resources. If someone is sentenced to death that admits to their crime I don't see any reason to spend years and millions of dollars on death row appealing, etc. That just makes the attorneys rich.
Those that are convicted to death who plead innocence deserve rights to appeal. Damion Echols certainly is a testament to that.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
You are wrong.
It has nothing to do with entertaining sick pleasures... for me it has everything to do with offering the survivors a measure of relief. You and a few others wouldn't want the men who raped and burned alive your daughters and wife dead. William Petit isn't as forgiving as you and neither am I.
The two assholes in the Cheshire case committed an inconceivably inhumane act. Justice for the dead and justice for the survivor is not books, music, pen pals, and daily exercise. Justice is death. It's that simple.
While you say you cannot get your head around people 'wanting to murder convicted killers of extreme crimes'... I can't get my head around people 'caring more for the murderers than the victims'.
Go tell William Petit that his desire for seeing the two bastards that killed his family is sick. And also tell him that he shouldn't want that because it doesn't serve any purpose. Tell him that he doesn't have the right to take anyone's life. He'll likely respond by saying what right did the two shitbaggers have to take his family's life? Just tell him there is nothing we can do about that now so get on with living (or something like that).
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I've edited it in red so it's more clear.
I don't care for the murderers. I care about doing what's right, and killing ain't right. Simple as that.
If I knew William Petit, I would have no issue telling him how I felt. Again, I don't think he is sick. As I have said before, I may feel the same as him if I were in his shoes. But his feelings aren't necessarily how things should be carried out. If it were, a jury would be made up of the victim's families.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I did misunderstand your post. Obviously I took it that you were suggesting people to the contrary of you were the 'sick ones'. My apologies.
Your last statement speaks volumes about this debate: his feelings aren't necessarily how things should be carried out. If it were, a jury would be made up of the victim's families.
His feelings may or may not be how things should be carried out. It's impossible to say which side is right and which side is wrong. There are only personal positions regarding the matter. A thorough process supported by a jury of non-family members saw fit to sentence these guys to death. Whether they were right or wrong depends on one's perspective. Obviously, I'm satisfied with the decision, whereas you might not be.
Regardless of personal position... we're more the same than not. At least we care enough to discuss the issue- albeit... perhaps ad nauseum.
Victim wants death, murderer wants death, court sentenced him to death.....why the delay?
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Painful, eh?
His own family wants him dead too.
Interestingly, scurrying to save themselves from an obvious death sentence given the depraved nature of the crime, both of these assholes agreed to life in prison without parole. But the prosecution and Petit would not accept the plea and pursued a more appropriate form of justice- death.
To his credit, Hayes has taken responsibility for the unspeakable crimes, Joshua is a flat out sociopath that, in true vermin fashion, is trying to downplay his role in the calamity. No, Josh. You are a pedophiliac scumbag that targeted an 11 year old in a supermarket, followed her home, and then convinced your shitbagger buddy to rob the home later.
Hayes likely didn't know what Josh's true intentions were: to rape the 11 year old girl. It looks as if he thought this was going to be a simple break and enter; however, he was more than willing to participate in the raping and murdering once that opportunity was afforded to him. After setting the girls on fire, Hayes left the house laughing and wearing one of the daughter's hats. Was that fun? Did you have a good time?
Just a freaking nightmare that Petit will awake from, but always remember, when these two dirtbags die. I wish him well and I support him from afar as he seeks justice for his dead loved ones.
I think it's wrong to force a victim to pay for their attackers room and board for the remainder of their lives.
As I said before, I'm definitely in favor of checks and balances when it comes to the DP. But it you have a guilty plea I don't see any reason to walk the convicted out of the courtroom straight to the chamber.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Which two wrongs do you speak of?
The rapes and murders were definitely wrongs, but the sentence of death is not a wrong. It's only half the room that feels that way. The other half of the room, including the courts and people such as myself see it as justice. For this case, ping pong, clean linen, warm meals, daily exercise, books, music, and pen pals will not suffice as justice.
Your opinion counts as much as mine or anyone else's for that matter, but it is insignificant compared to William Petit's. A death sentence was an option and the prosecution and he wanted it even though they had a 'life without parole' plea on the table saving them a ton of effort. Obviously, for the people truly affected by the crime, justice amounted to death. I don't blame them one bit for wanting the DP. I place sole responsibility for the crime on the 2 shitbaggers that perpetrated it. If they had acted even remotely like human beings, the Petit girls would be alive and we wouldn't be discussing what to do with these pieces of shit.
Sociopath, Joshua Komisarjevsky, has gotten over the crimes and shows no remorse for what he has done.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... morse.html
With his day full of activities paid for by the state... you can't blame him though. I mean, where would he find time to?
Peace.
Callen
ok but being better than them is really utilizing laws and due process...which they didn't give to their victims
If the law is that you will be put to death for certain crimes then so be it.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
And ignore the victims' cries for justice in the process?
Why dismiss their needs and essentially reduce them to onlookers in the back of the courtroom?
Callen... no offence intended, but to my way of thinking, such a mentality tends to focus more on the shitbirds than the victims. After what these two losers did... they deserve nothing in my mind other than a way out much more peaceful and painless than what they provided to the women they raped and murdered. We are rising above these two by affording them this. If we wanted an eye for an eye... we would have them tied, raped and burned alive. Let's not get too carried away with how much we are prepared to tender mercy.
Don't lose sight of what they did. Our response to their depraved nature and the inhumane treatment of those girls should reflect our level of disdain. They should not be 'doing time' like a bank robber, car thief, or drug dealer might. These special cats have forced our hand- we don't wish to deal with this event, but seeing as they thrust it upon us... well... good-bye.
You're fighting the good fight here. Keep it up. I agree with all you say but there is a segment who will never see it this way and I gave up trying to convince them awhile back.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Yah. You're probably right. Fuk the victims- they're already gone. And the survivors: get over it, man.
Let's focus on rehabilitating the poor murderers or at least treating them with as much compassion as we can.
You wonder why you're having a hard time convincing the 'segment'?
I didn't say any of that.
I just think murder - no matter who is murdering - is wrong.
Secondly, I think it's wrong to take comfort, pleasure, solace, healing, etc. from someone being killed - no matter who they are.
I'm not saying ANYTHING about rehabilitating the criminal or any of that extra stuff you tried to throw in there.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I have a hard time "justifying" killing. Yeah there are some scumbags that are a waste of oxygen...but killing is wrong. Having the mob agree to lynch doesn't make it right.
In 20 years, we as a society will look back at this subject and wonder what we were thinking. Most civilized countries in world today have stopped "killing" their prisoners.
Other than being barbaric, innocent people will be executed. Also understand victims families wanting revenge..as would I if something happened to one of my loved ones...but that's why we need rational people to intervene...