The Death Penalty

Spiritual_Chaos

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

PJ_Soul

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.

Spiritual_Chaos

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I feel like we're going in circles here. 

https://player.vimeo.com/video/1906434

Alice Johnson: [after going through the loop twice already] He's going after Debbie! I've got to stop him! 

Dan Jordan: You know, I get the weirdest feeling we've done this before.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.

You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

Paul Bernardo set for parole bid after 25 years in prison

https://globalnews.ca/news/4557154/paul-bernardo-parole-bid/?utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=GlobalToronto

This asshole scumbag should have been hanging at the end of a noose 20 years ago, instead, this scumbag gets a parole hearing so he can re-traumatize his victim's families all over again...

Oh yeah, Gooddale is tabling legislation to ban solitary confinement in Canada's prisons.  Next week he will introduce legislation to make sure the prison scum are served, gourmet meals...and the super bowl will be catered at all federal prisons by buffalo wild wings complete with an 80" TV ... wouldn't want low life scum to be uncomfortable. 

It’s entirely appropriate to move toward ending solitary confinement. The way it is currently used is probably for much different reasons than how you imagine it is used. For instance, solitary confinement of prisoners because they are dangerous to others is in the minority. Much more often is use of solitary because an inmate’s mental health issues present dangers to  themself that the corrections staff are poorly equipped to deal with, so they react by putting them into solitary confinement, or worse yet, into restraints, shackling them to a bed or board, with even their head held down. Not a very therapeutic situation for a suicidal inmate. Other are in solitary because they are at risk for other reasons - like other inmates have threatened them. It’s npt great to further lose your liberty because correctional staff can’t prevent one inmate from shanking another. 

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.

You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.

There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance.

Also, the PURPOSE of "administering justice" isn't what you seem to think it is. You seem to think that the justice system hands out justice in the biblical sense, which isn't the case. The administration of justice has one goal: to protect society via either isolation from society and/or deterrence to one degree or another (remembering that most criminals are released back into society eventually). Of course, it's been pretty well-established that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrence for the kinds of criminals who commit crimes DP supporters normally consider DP worthy.

Meltdown99

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.

You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.

There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance.

Also, the PURPOSE of "administering justice" isn't what you seem to think it is. You seem to think that the justice system hands out justice in the biblical sense, which isn't the case. The administration of justice has one goal: to protect society via either isolation from society and/or deterrence to one degree or another (remembering that most criminals are released back into society eventually). Of course, it's been pretty well-established that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrence for the kinds of criminals who commit crimes DP supporters normally consider DP worthy.

I'm not the one confused here. You are. Big time. 

In particular, you don't seem to understand what the term 'justice' actually means. Administering justice is not keeping the rest of society safe from future harm- it's administering justice (from MW: the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals).

Further, you are purposely being obtuse by bringing up the 'deterrent argument' which has been established as moot for either side. It cannot be established one way or another whether it actually is a deterrent or not given its infrequent application. And I'm not arguing this aspect again with you. If you bring it up again in childlike fashion... then we're done discussing this topic. We can talk about cats or pizza.

Lastly... exactly what are you talking about when you say: There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance. Huh? Norway is far from providing nothing to poor poor Anders and his crappy selection of video games and slow wifi.

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Meltdown99 said:

Paul Bernardo set for parole bid after 25 years in prison

https://globalnews.ca/news/4557154/paul-bernardo-parole-bid/?utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=GlobalToronto

This asshole scumbag should have been hanging at the end of a noose 20 years ago, instead, this scumbag gets a parole hearing so he can re-traumatize his victim's families all over again...

Oh yeah, Gooddale is tabling legislation to ban solitary confinement in Canada's prisons.  Next week he will introduce legislation to make sure the prison scum are served, gourmet meals...and the super bowl will be catered at all federal prisons by buffalo wild wings complete with an 80" TV ... wouldn't want low life scum to be uncomfortable. 

What's not being mentioned about this article is the fact he was discovered to have a self constructed weapon in his cell, but the prosecution dropped the charges against him for this. Fair enough. Poor guy has endured a lot.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.

You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.

There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance.

Also, the PURPOSE of "administering justice" isn't what you seem to think it is. You seem to think that the justice system hands out justice in the biblical sense, which isn't the case. The administration of justice has one goal: to protect society via either isolation from society and/or deterrence to one degree or another (remembering that most criminals are released back into society eventually). Of course, it's been pretty well-established that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrence for the kinds of criminals who commit crimes DP supporters normally consider DP worthy.

I'm not the one confused here. You are. Big time. 

In particular, you don't seem to understand what the term 'justice' actually means. Administering justice is not keeping the rest of society safe from future harm- it's administering justice (from MW: the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals).

Further, you are purposely being obtuse by bringing up the 'deterrent argument' which has been established as moot for either side. It cannot be established one way or another whether it actually is a deterrent or not given its infrequent application. And I'm not arguing this aspect again with you. If you bring it up again in childlike fashion... then we're done discussing this topic. We can talk about cats or pizza.

Lastly... exactly what are you talking about when you say: There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance. Huh? Norway is far from providing nothing to poor poor Anders and his crappy selection of video games and slow wifi.

That is a really weird and aggressive post man, like some kind of overreaction to what I said. I am having a genuine conversation, not being purposely obtuse or childish.

You have indeed misinterprwtted and even misread some of what I said, but I agree that you're not able to carry on with this conversation with me, so I won't bother clarifying.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

 A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.

I agree.

I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.

It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.

What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.

You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.

There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance.

Also, the PURPOSE of "administering justice" isn't what you seem to think it is. You seem to think that the justice system hands out justice in the biblical sense, which isn't the case. The administration of justice has one goal: to protect society via either isolation from society and/or deterrence to one degree or another (remembering that most criminals are released back into society eventually). Of course, it's been pretty well-established that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrence for the kinds of criminals who commit crimes DP supporters normally consider DP worthy.

I'm not the one confused here. You are. Big time. 

In particular, you don't seem to understand what the term 'justice' actually means. Administering justice is not keeping the rest of society safe from future harm- it's administering justice (from MW: the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals).

Further, you are purposely being obtuse by bringing up the 'deterrent argument' which has been established as moot for either side. It cannot be established one way or another whether it actually is a deterrent or not given its infrequent application. And I'm not arguing this aspect again with you. If you bring it up again in childlike fashion... then we're done discussing this topic. We can talk about cats or pizza.

Lastly... exactly what are you talking about when you say: There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance. Huh? Norway is far from providing nothing to poor poor Anders and his crappy selection of video games and slow wifi.

That is a really weird and aggressive post man, like some kind of overreaction to what I said. I am having a genuine conversation, not being purposely obtuse or childish.

You have indeed misinterprwtted and even misread some of what I said, but I agree that you're not able to carry on with this conversation with me, so I won't bother clarifying.

Well holy Christ man.

Several people have talked at length about the 'deterrent' argument and it being moot given the fact that neither side could establish such a claim given the poor testing parameters. This has been done several times and you have been part of these discussions... yet here... you carelessly toss it out there as a fact. One that I must now refute lest it stand as a given- a tiresome exercise and one I'm not interested in doing (despite the fact that I'm about to... aaaagain).

When driving, do you slow your speed for fear of a ticket? I do. So do many others. If a ticket is a deterrent from going 10 miles over the speed limit... it's naturally logical to assume a death sentence would be a deterrent for some thinking about committing murder. No?

If any murder was to result in death and the death penalty was assured in the event of a conviction... you don't think the prospect of death might make someone think? If even one person does... it is indeed a deterrent.

Regardless of such speculation... it would be statistically impossible to establish with any degree of certainty that the DP works (or doesn't work) as a deterrent because it is not used in the capacity necessary to provide valid data (and no... I am not advocating we try it out for a while).

* And I haven't misinterpreted anything from your post. Aside from asserting something that simply is inaccurate, you redefined justice and you erroneously detailed the 'purpose' of our justice system. By doing so you inflated your argument on falsehoods. 

Meltdown99

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 

Yes, why?  Just because i’m not a bleeding out heart for murderers.  How bout’ you?  Do you ever you use common sense?  Don’t you ever get tired of making excuses for pos scum who should be doing hard time, yeah probably not...

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 

Yes, why?  Just because i’m not a bleeding out heart for murderers.  How bout’ you?  Do you ever you use common sense?  Don’t you ever get tired of making excuses for pos scum who should be doing hard time, yeah probably not...

Just wondering if you ever take into account new information, like the fact that the majority of people ending up in solitary confinement are not murderers. 

Meltdown99

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 

Do you ever get tired of being bleeding heart for losers...

Spiritual_Chaos

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 

Yes, why?  Just because i’m not a bleeding out heart for murderers.  How bout’ you?  Do you ever you use common sense?  Don’t you ever get tired of making excuses for pos scum who should be doing hard time, yeah probably not...

Someone needs a hug.

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...

Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 

Do you ever get tired of being bleeding heart for losers...

It can get a little tiring, having compassion and a respect for facts, but I think it's the right thing to do.

Do you ever get tired living in hyperbole?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Fantastic 'na-na-na-boo-boo' tilt right now!