Tick Tock Tick Tock

g under p

Godfather. wrote:

you mean to tell me that parking your little red wagon in you buddies garage is not disfunctial ? this hole topic screams with disfunction, most of what you post about is gay sex or how gay people are mistreated and that tells me there is a disfunction there to start with, you get all sideways and bent as soon as anybody posts anything on one of your poor gay people threads that you might think is offensive to you,you almost seem to set your self up for hurt or anger and that my friend is disfunctional in my mind,be who you are or want to be but stop trying to push it on everybody else and hurting your self in the process.

Godfather.

Godfather. wrote:

g under p wrote:

Touching someone or an underage child inappropriately IS A DYSFUNCTION...loving someone of the same sex to me isn't a dysfunction. NOT everyone parks their little red wagon in your buddies garage and even IF they do isn't a dysfunction. Would you think the same way if that person was your own child or children?

Peace

yup !

Godfather.

Ok fine that's understandable....would you then try to change that said child to become straight since you believe it's a dysfunction? To me there is NO changing him or her, it would ONLY make his/her life miserable and cause a huge resentment and hate towards you for the rest of your lives. Let them be happy and find happiness in whatever format pleases THEM not YOU.

Peace

pandora

Smellyman wrote:

Ask straight people if they can be gay and the answer is no fing way.

If someone "chooses" to be gay.......guess what, it's because your gay.

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

in addition though would this person choose to be gay
if not having been the victim of repeated sexual abuse
for years that caused heterosexual dysfunction as an adult...

to the point of not trusting, loving nor ever feeling safe with a person of the opposite sex.

would this person be heterosexual as an adult if this had not happened
I know in friends cases ... yes

this my point ... experiences in developmental stages, horrific events, role models,
numerous factors effect our sexuality as does basic sexual attraction
which many believe is learned before conscious memory and is tied to the longing for
love and acceptance and fulfillment of it.

It is not always .... I was born this way

Go Beavers

pandora wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Ask straight people if they can be gay and the answer is no fing way.

If someone "chooses" to be gay.......guess what, it's because your gay.

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

But you kept saying 'gay' when you were referring to bisexuals, e.g. your friends choosing to be gay, which then led to all this mis-communication.

pandora

Go Beavers wrote:

pandora wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Ask straight people if they can be gay and the answer is no fing way.

If someone "chooses" to be gay.......guess what, it's because your gay.

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

But you kept saying 'gay' when you were referring to bisexuals, e.g. your friends choosing to be gay, which then led to all this mis-communication.

I was replying to the fact that people do choose

there are people living a gay lifestyle by choice due to sexual abuse suffered as a child
this was my statement

the miscommunication was the twisting of my words to fit anothers agenda ...
omission of my statements and main point
and implying I said gays are dysfunctional etc etc
combative miscommunication ....

Go Beavers

pandora wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

pandora wrote:

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

But you kept saying 'gay' when you were referring to bisexuals, e.g. your friends choosing to be gay, which then led to all this mis-communication.

I was replying to the fact that people do choose

there are people living a gay lifestyle by choice due to sexual abuse suffered as a child
this was my statement

the miscommunication was the twisting of my words to fit anothers agenda ...
omission of my statements and main point
and implying I said gays are dysfunctional etc etc
combative miscommunication ....

So what I'm hearing is that you know bisexuals who are in a relationship with a same sex person. The part about those people choosing same sex partners rather than opposite sex partners due to being sexually abused is the debatable piece.

g under p

pandora wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Ask straight people if they can be gay and the answer is no fing way.

If someone "chooses" to be gay.......guess what, it's because your gay.

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

pandora wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

But you kept saying 'gay' when you were referring to bisexuals, e.g. your friends choosing to be gay, which then led to all this mis-communication.

I was replying to the fact that people do choose

there are people living a gay lifestyle by choice due to sexual abuse suffered as a child
this was my statement

the miscommunication was the twisting of my words to fit anothers agenda ...
omission of my statements and main point
and implying I said gays are dysfunctional etc etc
combative miscommunication ....

Ok I'm just trying to get an understanding of your statement above....are you saying that when or if let's say a woman gets raped/abused by a man then chooses a gay lifestyle by choice because let's say....she finds MORE comfort in another of the same sex. Is that the point of that statement...am I correct?

Peace

Prince Of Dorkness

pandora wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Ask straight people if they can be gay and the answer is no fing way.

If someone "chooses" to be gay.......guess what, it's because your gay.

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

Ok... So wait... You're not talking about gay people... You're talking about bisexual people choosing a same-sex partner over an opposite sex partner.

Ok, yea... That's a choice, I guess.

Although not really choosing to "be gay." that person is still bisexual.

Prince Of Dorkness

Godfather. wrote:

you mean to tell me that parking your little red wagon in you buddies garage is not disfunctial ? this hole topic screams with disfunction, most of what you post about is gay sex or how gay people are mistreated and that tells me there is a disfunction there to start with, you get all sideways and bent as soon as anybody posts anything on one of your poor gay people threads that you might think is offensive to you,you almost seem to set your self up for hurt or anger and that my friend is disfunctional in my mind,be who you are or want to be but stop trying to push it on everybody else and hurting your self in the process.

Godfather.

1. My wagon is neither red nor is it little. For proof of this, google me. In fact... Just google my first name. Jasun. I dare you.

2. Your spelling of the word "whole" is.... Unintentionally hilarious.

3. Yes, I often post about political issues from the perspective of how they affect me as a gay American. Isn't that the point of AMT? to talk about how political topics affect us and why we support what we support?

4. I do not post about gay sex. Or.. Not here, anyway. I do post about how laws affect me and my family. But I don't think I've ever told you if I am - to use your crude metaphor, the wagon or the garage. But if you want to see me post about gay sex. Google me. Just my first name. Jasun. I dare you.

5. You do not get to tell me not to "push" myself on anyone or anything. I have never supported or voted for a law meant to take away anyone else's rights.
5.

pandora

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Ask straight people if they can be gay and the answer is no fing way.

If someone "chooses" to be gay.......guess what, it's because your gay.

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

Ok... So wait... You're not talking about gay people... You're talking about bisexual people choosing a same-sex partner over an opposite sex partner.

Ok, yea... That's a choice, I guess.

Although not really choosing to "be gay." that person is still bisexual.

but in the case of my friends they are not truly bisexual ... the attraction for opposite sex
found to be impossible due to the horrific sexual abuse experienced as a child
and through trying to maintain a heterosexual relationship they deemed themselves bisexual.

But indeed sexual abuse became the catalyst for choice.

I edited this above post also to better explain what my point is

Godfather.

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

you mean to tell me that parking your little red wagon in you buddies garage is not disfunctial ? this hole topic screams with disfunction, most of what you post about is gay sex or how gay people are mistreated and that tells me there is a disfunction there to start with, you get all sideways and bent as soon as anybody posts anything on one of your poor gay people threads that you might think is offensive to you,you almost seem to set your self up for hurt or anger and that my friend is disfunctional in my mind,be who you are or want to be but stop trying to push it on everybody else and hurting your self in the process.

Godfather.

1. My wagon is neither red nor is it little. For proof of this, google me. In fact... Just google my first name. Jasun. I dare you.

2. Your spelling of the word "whole" is.... Unintentionally hilarious.

3. Yes, I often post about political issues from the perspective of how they affect me as a gay American. Isn't that the point of AMT? to talk about how political topics affect us and why we support what we support?

4. I do not post about gay sex. Or.. Not here, anyway. I do post about how laws affect me and my family. But I don't think I've ever told you if I am - to use your crude metaphor, the wagon or the garage. But if you want to see me post about gay sex. Google me. Just my first name. Jasun. I dare you.

5. You do not get to tell me not to "push" myself on anyone or anything. I have never supported or voted for a law meant to take away anyone else's rights.
5.

bro I don't want you think I dis like you because I don't agree with or more importantly understand the gay thing
I have to admit that most of your replys always make me laugh....and sorry but thats a dare I just cant do


Godfather.

JonnyPistachio

Godfather. wrote:

I don't agree with or more importantly understand the gay thing
Godfather.

Just curious, what do you mean by "don't agree with the gay thing"?
Do you mean that you don't believe it exists?
or, you just dont understand it?
or, you don't ever want to be gay?
or, you don't want to acknowledge gay people?
or, you don't think people are gay/can be gay? or you do believe it is ALWAYS a choice?

Sorry, I just don't understand this thought process and curious if you could explain.

Do you not agree with people being black?

g under p

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I don't agree with or more importantly understand the gay thing
Godfather.

Just curious, what do you mean by "don't agree with the gay thing"?
Do you mean that you don't believe it exists?
or, you just dont understand it?
or, you don't ever want to be gay?
or, you don't want to acknowledge gay people?
or, you don't think people are gay/can be gay? or you do believe it is ALWAYS a choice?

Sorry, I just don't understand this thought process and curious if you could explain.

Do you not agree with people being black?

Interesting questions JP...It reminds me back in 1997 I did an AIDS bicycle ride from Raliegh NC to Washington DC. I did this ride as a challange to myself and to raise money for AIDS research and whether I could complete the 350 miles it took in 4 days.

Back then I had my preconceptions of people who were gay and trying to understand the difficulties they had living with AIDS. Many were there who were NOT gay living with AIDS both in support/volunteering and as riders like myself. I have to say that first AIDS of 3 I finished was one of the MOST important and emotional things I ever accomplished in my life so far.

I learned so much about how peaceful and cool people who were gay were at the time. I can clearly remember wishing outside of this ride the 1700 riders that the rest of the world could get along, love and look out for each other as we were on that first ride. We camped at local towns, churches, schools everyone seemed to forget about race, sexual orientation even the nervousness of having to take a hot shower in these camper stall showers we had. It was not easy finishing the ride on my mountain bike but we made it back to DC and for the other 2 rides I bought myself a road racing bike. I got tired of all the women zooming pass me...man could they ever ride fast.

It was just simply something I won't ever forget.

Peace

Godfather.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I don't agree with or more importantly understand the gay thing
Godfather.

Just curious, what do you mean by "don't agree with the gay thing"?
Do you mean that you don't believe it exists?
or, you just dont understand it?
or, you don't ever want to be gay?
or, you don't want to acknowledge gay people?
or, you don't think people are gay/can be gay? or you do believe it is ALWAYS a choice?

Sorry, I just don't understand this thought process and curious if you could explain.

Do you not agree with people being black?

JP what's up with the black comment ? if you're trying to bait me into a race trap it wont work and I am disapointed that you would even bring race into this at all.

Q)Do you mean that you don't believe it exists? ..
A) of course it dose.
Q)or, you just dont understand it?
A)no I really don't
Q)or, you don't ever want to be gay?
A) hell no ! no chance of that ever happening
Q)or, you don't want to acknowledge gay people?
A) I acknowledge everyone I see or know
Q)or, you don't think people are gay/can be gay? or you do believe it is ALWAYS a choice?
A) does it really matter what I think ? if I knew the honest answer to that would there still be a question about the right to choose ?

best I could do for ya buddy


Godfather.

Go Beavers

pandora wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

I am talking about bisexuals not straight people

Ok... So wait... You're not talking about gay people... You're talking about bisexual people choosing a same-sex partner over an opposite sex partner.

Ok, yea... That's a choice, I guess.

Although not really choosing to "be gay." that person is still bisexual.

but in the case of my friends they are not truly bisexual ... the attraction for opposite sex
found to be impossible due to the horrific sexual abuse experienced as a child
and through trying to maintain a heterosexual relationship they deemed themselves bisexual.

But indeed sexual abuse became the catalyst for choice.

I edited this above post also to better explain what my point is

Maybe I'm confused, but let's clarify. You're saying your friend is making the choice to be with same sex partners, but they aren't 'truly' gay or bi? But after time, they decided they are bi by default? Of course I don't know your friend, but it sounds like they are bisexual and avoiding opposite sex partners due to their trauma history and current response to that trauma.

pandora

Go Beavers wrote:

Maybe I'm confused, but let's clarify. You're saying your friend is making the choice to be with same sex partners, but they aren't 'truly' gay or bi? But after time, they decided they are bi by default? Of course I don't know your friend, but it sounds like they are bisexual and avoiding opposite sex partners due to their trauma history and current response to that trauma.

yes
my point childhood trauma can and does effect ones sexuality,
this in the case of a few of my friends who are now living a gay lifestyle.

they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized.
This trauma was life changing for them.

But this is their path and this is who they are
all are happy in the choice they have made.
They simply could not be happy with the opposite sex
this became clear after failing heterosexual relationships and marriage.

And this is where the question of bi comes in ... there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex.
And what would have been if they could trust and love a person of the opposite sex
or attempting to live as if they had never been abused.

They shelved the abuse until it caused dysfunction and pain in their relationships with
the opposite sex.

I feel choice for some saves them and allows love and happiness to fill their lives.

As I've said from the start here

it is all about finding love and happiness in life, it matters not, sexual preference,
nor if they choose or are born that way...
it's just people being free to live and love and be happy,
this a basic right.

JonnyPistachio

Godfather. wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I don't agree with or more importantly understand the gay thing
Godfather.

Just curious, what do you mean by "don't agree with the gay thing"?
Do you mean that you don't believe it exists?
or, you just dont understand it?
or, you don't ever want to be gay?
or, you don't want to acknowledge gay people?
or, you don't think people are gay/can be gay? or you do believe it is ALWAYS a choice?

Sorry, I just don't understand this thought process and curious if you could explain.

Do you not agree with people being black?

JP what's up with the black comment ? if you're trying to bait me into a race trap it wont work and I am disapointed that you would even bring race into this at all.

Q)Do you mean that you don't believe it exists? ..
A) of course it dose.
Q)or, you just dont understand it?
A)no I really don't
Q)or, you don't ever want to be gay?
A) hell no ! no chance of that ever happening
Q)or, you don't want to acknowledge gay people?
A) I acknowledge everyone I see or know
Q)or, you don't think people are gay/can be gay? or you do believe it is ALWAYS a choice?
A) does it really matter what I think ? if I knew the honest answer to that would there still be a question about the right to choose ?

best I could do for ya buddy


Godfather.

Obviously, you didn't get the point. I wasn't trying to bait anything. I believe someone else said it around here once before: Not understanding gay is similar to saying you don't understand race. its just something that "is". For instance, you can't say: "I don't agree with the black thing."

It just makes me very confused when people say they don't agree with the "gay thing". Since you didn't clarify what you don't agree with, I'll just assume you simply don't like it, or you don't think people should be gay.

Go Beavers

pandora wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

Maybe I'm confused, but let's clarify. You're saying your friend is making the choice to be with same sex partners, but they aren't 'truly' gay or bi? But after time, they decided they are bi by default? Of course I don't know your friend, but it sounds like they are bisexual and avoiding opposite sex partners due to their trauma history and current response to that trauma.

yes
my point childhood trauma can and does effect ones sexuality,
this in the case of a few of my friends who are now living a gay lifestyle.

they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized.
This trauma was life changing for them.

But this is their path and this is who they are
all are happy in the choice they have made.
They simply could not be happy with the opposite sex
this became clear after failing heterosexual relationships and marriage.

And this is where the question of bi comes in ... there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex.
And what would have been if they could trust and love a person of the opposite sex
or attempting to live as if they had never been abused.

They shelved the abuse until it caused dysfunction and pain in their relationships with
the opposite sex.

I feel choice for some saves them and allows love and happiness to fill their lives.

As I've said from the start here

it is all about finding love and happiness in life, it matters not, sexual preference,
nor if they choose or are born that way...
it's just people being free to live and love and be happy,
this a basic right.

I would say that trauma has more of an effect on behavior and emotions, rather than sexuality itself, and it sounds like your friend(s) may be experiencing, or were experiencing, ongoing PTSD. Avoidance is a main part of ptsd, and if opposite sex partners were a trigger, than avoiding that trigger may be what was happening. It's likely they were bi or gay regardless. Maybe there was confusion on their part, too, about what was sexuality and what was a trauma response.

Part of your post is confusing. you said this: "they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized."

Then you said this: "there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex." At first your saying they're not gay or bi, but then you're saying they weren't heterosexual. Maybe you're talking about different people.

Also, your use of the terms 'lifestyle' and 'preference' can be offensive. Being a straight male, no one refers to my marriage as a straight lifestyle or my "preference" for women.

pandora

Go Beavers wrote:

pandora wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

Maybe I'm confused, but let's clarify. You're saying your friend is making the choice to be with same sex partners, but they aren't 'truly' gay or bi? But after time, they decided they are bi by default? Of course I don't know your friend, but it sounds like they are bisexual and avoiding opposite sex partners due to their trauma history and current response to that trauma.

yes
my point childhood trauma can and does effect ones sexuality,
this in the case of a few of my friends who are now living a gay lifestyle.

they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized.
This trauma was life changing for them.

But this is their path and this is who they are
all are happy in the choice they have made.
They simply could not be happy with the opposite sex
this became clear after failing heterosexual relationships and marriage.

And this is where the question of bi comes in ... there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex.
And what would have been if they could trust and love a person of the opposite sex
or attempting to live as if they had never been abused.

They shelved the abuse until it caused dysfunction and pain in their relationships with
the opposite sex.

I feel choice for some saves them and allows love and happiness to fill their lives.

As I've said from the start here

it is all about finding love and happiness in life, it matters not, sexual preference,
nor if they choose or are born that way...
it's just people being free to live and love and be happy,
this a basic right.

I would say that trauma has more of an effect on behavior and emotions, rather than sexuality itself, and it sounds like your friend(s) may be experiencing, or were experiencing, ongoing PTSD. Avoidance is a main part of ptsd, and if opposite sex partners were a trigger, than avoiding that trigger may be what was happening. It's likely they were bi or gay regardless. Maybe there was confusion on their part, too, about what was sexuality and what was a trauma response.

Part of your post is confusing. you said this: "they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized."

Then you said this: "there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex." At first your saying they're not gay or bi, but then you're saying they weren't heterosexual. Maybe you're talking about different people.

Also, your use of the terms 'lifestyle' and 'preference' can be offensive. Being a straight male, no one refers to my marriage as a straight lifestyle or my "preference" for women.

Well I would beg to differ ... gay people I know call 'heterosexual' a lifestyle also....
the straight lifestyle. Lifestyle defined... how a person lives their life.

And of course it is all sexual preference.... for all of us.
Preference defined a greater liking... preferred.

I am explaining different people's experiences and how they have related them to me
and the effects they feel they have had on their lives.... each a little different.

But the good part is they are happy and loving,
surviving something that should never have happened to them.
Something that should never have altered their life as it did.... and it did.
This something they all seem to feel.... the profound effect on their adult sexual being.

Godfather.

JP; cool that will work.


Godfather.

Go Beavers

pandora wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

pandora wrote:

yes
my point childhood trauma can and does effect ones sexuality,
this in the case of a few of my friends who are now living a gay lifestyle.

they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized.
This trauma was life changing for them.

But this is their path and this is who they are
all are happy in the choice they have made.
They simply could not be happy with the opposite sex
this became clear after failing heterosexual relationships and marriage.

And this is where the question of bi comes in ... there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex.
And what would have been if they could trust and love a person of the opposite sex
or attempting to live as if they had never been abused.

They shelved the abuse until it caused dysfunction and pain in their relationships with
the opposite sex.

I feel choice for some saves them and allows love and happiness to fill their lives.

As I've said from the start here

it is all about finding love and happiness in life, it matters not, sexual preference,
nor if they choose or are born that way...
it's just people being free to live and love and be happy,
this a basic right.

I would say that trauma has more of an effect on behavior and emotions, rather than sexuality itself, and it sounds like your friend(s) may be experiencing, or were experiencing, ongoing PTSD. Avoidance is a main part of ptsd, and if opposite sex partners were a trigger, than avoiding that trigger may be what was happening. It's likely they were bi or gay regardless. Maybe there was confusion on their part, too, about what was sexuality and what was a trauma response.

Part of your post is confusing. you said this: "they feel that they would not have been bisexual
nor chose a same sex life partner if they had not been sexually traumatized."

Then you said this: "there was really no attraction
but more a need to follow society in their relationships with the opposite sex." At first your saying they're not gay or bi, but then you're saying they weren't heterosexual. Maybe you're talking about different people.

Also, your use of the terms 'lifestyle' and 'preference' can be offensive. Being a straight male, no one refers to my marriage as a straight lifestyle or my "preference" for women.

Well I would beg to differ ... gay people I know call 'heterosexual' a lifestyle also....
the straight lifestyle. Lifestyle defined... how a person lives their life.

And of course it is all sexual preference.... for all of us.
Preference defined a greater liking... preferred.

I am explaining different people's experiences and how they have related them to me
and the effects they feel they have had on their lives.... each a little different.

But the good part is they are happy and loving,
surviving something that should never have happened to them.
Something that should never have altered their life as it did.... and it did.
This something they all seem to feel.... the profound effect on their adult sexual being.

I understand your usage of the terms lifestyle and preference, but they are almost never used to describe heterosexuals. Using those terms implies that there is a choice. Preference means liking something vs. really liking something else. I prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla, but in a pinch, I'll go with vanilla if that's the only option. The same can't be said of me and men.