The small boy who's dad went on record saying he never wanted kids....
If the husband (and SiL) both got some help to try and overcome/accept the situation (and also that he will never really know what when on in her mind), the husband would be able to stop clutching at straws, deal with what is coming for the boy, and, in the process, the other families would be able to have some closure. Do they not deserve it?
The small boy who's dad went on record saying he never wanted kids....
If the husband (and SiL) both got some help to try and overcome/accept the situation (and also that he will never really know what when on in her mind), the husband would be able to stop clutching at straws, deal with what is coming for the boy, and, in the process, the other families would be able to have some closure. Do they not deserve it?
I feel bad for him, no doubt will have some issues. But you can't change the facts....
is that then why they are trying to exhume just for the hair test only ..
I'm not sure that is correct.
Why bring a brain abscess up in a doc if Diane was found not have one?
That doesn't make sense and it seemed to be a well informed doc.
I think from what the old doctor said too he felt more could be proven
towards that theory with additional tests.... it was worth a shot for closure.
Yes I will pray for a better outcome. I will pray for closure for this family.
My thoughts are with the surviving child. This is an unforgiving world.
His life will be in turmoil, he will live ashamed and pitied and his mother disgraced.
So yes I hope they can clear his mothers memory and better understand what happened that day.
I am surprised more loving hearts would not want this scenario.
Unless it is easier to hate and blame in such a terrible tragedy.... I get that.
My heart is with the survivors.
As far as the others who died... if it were proven to be a horrible accident due to a traumatic brain event,
that Diane was terribly impaired before she consumed anything
that would also be somewhat more healing for all the loved ones,
because it doesn't make sense to any of the family as it stands now.
Each one has said this is not Diane. I believe it is not either.
Thanks for listening to my view on the doc...very controversial...very informative,
a really good piece they did.
I was shocked after seeing it, it stayed in my heart and thoughts long after I watched,
and it changed my opinion of this woman.
I believe she deserves better and I hope it is proven to be true.
If we are never meant to know
then for the sake of the child I hope the hate and blame goes away in his lifetime,
he will have enough to deal with just living without the loving mother he remembers.
So no one cares for the other family? Did they not lose anyone?
Do you not see the pain the Schulers are causing them straight from their mouth. There is nothing contrversial here....Nothing
The Schulers live two towns away from me, The aunt in the doc use to come into my job(an italian deli on Little East Neck rd in west Bab when I was a kid) She was one of those people you dont forget...and that aint good
You would know if she came in the store with your back turned to her. A piece of work. Watching her try and spin Scientific facts...clearly she's not on that level
I love Long Island...but she's a dime a dozen round here. Thickheaded
Why bring a brain abscess up in a doc if Diane was found not have one? .
Again, because some people are clutching at straws? Do you believe every doc you see on TV? I've seen a 'documentary' that suggested Hitler was a hermaphrodite - how funny is that and am I to believe it's true? It's TV for christ's sake. It's made to bring in revenues with ads. It wouldn't be a doc (or a very short one) if they showed the facts of the cause of the accident, ie the autopsy report, from the start, would it? Over in 5 minutes. Where's the drama in that? A woman was drunk and high, had kids in her car, drove on the wrong side of the road, killed the 4 children in her car, 3 other adults in another one and herself. Very tragic but really not worth any documentary. Whether she was a regular drinker or drug taker (or only an occasional one) doesn't matter. She was intoxicated when it happened, no 'brain event'/abscess/infection showing on autopsy - simple. The husband is looking for answers he will never get, ie the 'why', - these died when Diane died. He should have communicated with her while she was still alive. Closure for him will come when he accepts the facts. Unfortunately for the families of the others killed they can't get closure (as much as they want to) until he does because he keeps on turning the knife in their wounds.
The husband has mega baggage, he needs to deal with it, he needs help. The facts of the direct causes of the accident are plain to see. What was happening in this marriage are not. Maybe all was not what it seemed (the telling fact is that the husband didn't want kids but yet had two?), but it's really non of our business but while he's coming up with all these scenarios to 'clear' his wife, he is most probably not dealing with his 'real' issues which might hurt even more than the evidence. Or.... is all this a cynical ploy by the husband and the lawyers to deflect in view of civil liability? Wouldn't be the first time something like this happens.
I am surprised more loving hearts would not want this scenario.
Unless it is easier to hate and blame in such a terrible tragedy.... I get that.
Sighs.... Loving hearts would want to see the 'fantasy' scenario whilst non loving ones look at facts? It's not a question of hate or blame - you don't 'get' anything. It's hard, cold facts. It's very sad but it happened. Posters here did say bad things happen to good people. So let's not play this game, OK? No need to respond - end of this kind of talk insinuating negative 'feelings' for those not 'wanting' a certain scenario. End.
thanks again redrock, true to form... another put down and why? :?
Please be nice. I don't insult you. I 'get' quite a bit actually and
I get matters of the heart that's for sure!
Sometimes hard cold facts aren't the whole story as in this case.
The only facts that people are basing this on are the blood tests and the events
that day do not add up to the conclusion some are drawing, not at all.
One needs to use their heart to see the story behind the facts,
this more often then not, this the whole picture,
this is living!
Yes bad things happen to good people ... that would be for all the victims...
Diane was a victim too that day and I believe she was compromised mentally, beyond rational
thought, due to life threatening illness, a brain abscess, before she ever drank anything.
That is the only conclusion I can come to when I consider all the facts
and reason with my heart.
Pandora, if you want to 'believe' something that doesn't exist - ie life threatening illness or brain abscess - when medical reports completely rule this out - fine, if that makes you feel better. But it is not the facts. Medical facts based on full and complete autopsy of the body (& tox tests) done by experts/professionals. Please read the autopsy report. And yes, I agree, she was compromised mentally beyond rational thought- with drugs and alcohol in her system. Vodka SHE drank, pot SHE smoked.
And again, I agree these facts aren't the whole story. But these are the factors that caused the death of 4 children, 3 adults and hers. She was drunk and high behind the wheel with 4 children in the car.
The WHY behind this is something completely different. Why she downed the vodka or smoked the pot when she knew she was driving and had the reponsibility of these little children (and again, we know that physical causes have been eliminated). There are many, many suggestions/theories as to how her week/end day actually went (cctv footage, contradictory statements, etc.), how she was 'for real' (ie behind closed doors), how stable she really was and what her relationship with her husband/family was. This will never be clear as I am sure a lot of people close to her will not want to open a possible Pandora's box for the public to scrutinize. And furthermore, it's for the family to deal with this.
And I will not dignify the 'get' thing with a response as when one reads the whole sentence, it's context is clear. Enough said.
I think I will bow out of this 'discussion' as it is going nowhere. Evidence of the cause of the accident is there. Full autopsy report is there. One can speculate as much as one wants about her life and frame of mind and 'saintness' (or not) depending on which theory one wants to 'follow'. But in the end knowingly driving under the influence is what killed these people. No blame or hate - just saying it as it is. Anything else, the family have to deal with it.
It's not a question of hate or blame - you don't 'get' anything.
sounds the same to me
but will give you the benefit of the doubt... as I am doing Diane.
'it'
might have been better than "anything" ... anything, that implies you think I am stupid
which is how I took it but perhaps thats not how you meant it...
you wouldn't think that, right?
Again... they did not rule out a brain abscess or the doc would not have pursued that as a theory
and the old doctor involved would not have said the abscess was a possibility
Also they failed to take a hair sample to prove drug dependency... wonder what else was
missed because they assumed she was just another drunk driver....
making a choice to drink and drive with kids in the car.
If she was delirious she would not even have realized she was drinking vodka!
I've had a 106 fever and can tell you if a bottle of vodka was next to me on the nightstand
I would have drank it not even knowing what it was.
You fail to put yourself in the shoes of someone gravely ill or even consider the possibility.
I am open minded and want to find out, along with her husband, what happened that day,
still praying good word comes to help clear her name
and make life easier for the family and little guy.
I was out of this conversation as were you a couple times.... hopefully it sticks
I believe an abscess was not looked into... this one reason for the exhumation along with other tests.
A tooth abscess would NOT cause someone to be in such a trance to cause them to drink without knowing what they are doing. You are talking about a zombie state. Tooth abscesses do NOT cause that: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002055/
I believe this is what the family is attempting to prove as the expert doctor, that cute old guy,
said on the doc... for finality do this. Hopeful to find an answer... a better one.
I really liked that guy
What they are looking for is to lay blame somewhere other than where ALL of the facts point to, because they can't accept what Diane did. I don't think you were paying attention if you thought the 'cute old guy' was suggesting they do an autopsy. He repeatedly said it didn't show anything, and doing so again would likely yield the same results. They kept on pressing him for something, anything, so he relented and said, for their piece of mind, it wouldn't hurt to do it. You can see he felt bad but knew that there was no logical way to convince them that the facts paint the picture of what likely happened.
"The results of an autopsy conducted by a Westchester County medical examiner one day after the accident found that Schuler had not suffered a stroke, aneurysm, or heart attack.
In September, New York's top forensic pathologist said that a hair test should have been done to determine Diane Schuler's drug history."
I agree with the hair test, so it could be proven that she had a drug history and put this nonsense that she was some faultless angel to rest.
Perhaps they will be able to find out one way or another and I still pray the results show an abscess for this small boys sake and her loving family. That would be awesome for all involved. A healing end.
The results showed NO brain abscess. A tooth abscess would not be a cause or excuse for her irresponsibility. And for that matter a brain abscess doesn't seem like a logical reason why someone would get wasted without intent. 'Confusion, drowsiness and irritability' don't fly for me, and they wouldn't in a court of law.
It would be a better outcome than
she was a thoughtless drunk driver who didn't care about the kids in her car,
this not something there seems to be any proof of.
Remove 'thoughtless' and 'care' and that's what she was.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Instead of continually posting your opinions based on your feelings, stick with the facts and you may see the truth of what happened.
-You are arguing for an abscess, even though there is no evidence of an abscess. There is also no logical reason why an abscess would cause someone to drink a WHOLE bottle of vodka, and spark up some weed. Sorry, that is not logical.
-NO authoritative figure (cops, doctors, etc) suggested that something was missed and that another autopsy was necessary. Watch it again. Some placate the family after continuous prodding, but none hold that opinion.
-All witnesses said she seemed in control and knew what she was doing on the road. One witness even said it looked like she was on a suicide mission, so you can't dismiss the possibility that she wanted to kill herself.
Every single thing that you posted has been debunked with facts. Please review the previous few posts and you will see, instead of reposting your same 'feelings' and ignoring everyone else's rebuttal.
Thank you.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
After watching the documentary again, I think there is a chance that she was on a suicide mission and chose to go out high as a kite.
It makes you wonder....For those of us that actually believe the EVIDENCE and the SCIENTIFIC FACTS and the AUTOPSY RESULTS, what do you make of this??
Witnesses Elaine and Peter Royal (witnessed Diane Schuler coming the wrong way down the exit ramp) had this to say:
Peter: "It was as if we weren't even on the road."
Elaine: (agreeing) "yes."
Peter: "She's coming toward us, you know, I mean I'm blinking my lights and beeping the horn and she (Elaine) is flailing. And we drove up on the grass because otherwise we would have been hit. She never put on her brakes, she never even...her eyes didn't even move."
Elaine: "It was just (motioning like she's got her hands on the steering wheel), I'm goin' where I wanna go, I'm doin' what I need to do, I'm where I wanna be."
Peter: "And then she went around the bend, onto the highway itself."
Peter Grotto: (At the time estimated that the van was going 70 mph) "Dead pin straight, pin straight. Wasn't doing this (motioning as if swerving). It was dead. pin. straight. He called 911, saying the van was going "like a bat out of hell".
Lorna Ramos Morel: "It was like playing chicken. She was going straight up the road. We saw something coming at us, we reacted, we moved. She had no reaction at all. She didn't stop, she didn't slow down, she didn't move. I thought it was someone who was dead set on killing herself."
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
It makes me sad. People do very strange out-of-the-ordinary thing when they are seriously depressed, and are planning to commit suicide. They are also very good at hiding things that would give their intention away until it's already happening. I feel just as terrible for her as the children and other adults who died. Makes you wonder what was affecting her that there was no other choice that day. :(
It makes me sad. People do very strange out-of-the-ordinary thing when they are seriously depressed, and are planning to commit suicide. They are also very good at hiding things that would give their intention away until it's already happening. I feel just as terrible for her as the children and other adults who died. Makes you wonder what was affecting her that there was no other choice that day. :(
Well said. Very sad for all involved.
Considering she had a fractured family (no contact with her parents), no contact with old friends and a limited immediate family, I can see how she could be depressed. Not to mention her shady husband. I believe there is a LOT that he is not saying and a lot that has not been made public about their relationship and recent events that may have caused her to possibly be in a fragile state of mind.
Post edited by AllNiteThing on
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
It makes me sad. People do very strange out-of-the-ordinary thing when they are seriously depressed, and are planning to commit suicide. They are also very good at hiding things that would give their intention away until it's already happening. I feel just as terrible for her as the children and other adults who died. Makes you wonder what was affecting her that there was no other choice that day. :(
Unfortunately, we'll never know. Unless the truth comes out from Diane's own family(husband, sister-in-law). Watching the documentary you feel as though something is missing, that the whole truth isn't coming out.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
It makes me sad. People do very strange out-of-the-ordinary thing when they are seriously depressed, and are planning to commit suicide. They are also very good at hiding things that would give their intention away until it's already happening. I feel just as terrible for her as the children and other adults who died. Makes you wonder what was affecting her that there was no other choice that day. :(
Unfortunately, we'll never know. Unless the truth comes out from Diane's own family(husband, sister-in-law). Watching the documentary you feel as though something is missing, that the whole truth isn't coming out.
Yes, from what I am reading here, they did not know she was feeling depressed enough to kill herself and others. Maybe they knew, but can't say, as it may make things worse. So, so sad indeed. :(
After watching the documentary again, I think there is a chance that she was on a suicide mission and chose to go out high as a kite.
It makes you wonder....For those of us that actually believe the EVIDENCE and the SCIENTIFIC FACTS and the AUTOPSY RESULTS, what do you make of this??
Witnesses Elaine and Peter Royal (witnessed Diane Schuler coming the wrong way down the exit ramp) had this to say:
Lorna Ramos Morel: "It was like playing chicken. She was going straight up the road. We saw something coming at us, we reacted, we moved. She had no reaction at all. She didn't stop, she didn't slow down, she didn't move. I thought it was someone who was dead set on killing herself."
The only thing the science and the evidence says is what actually was going on in her body at the time of the crash. This was extremely high amounts of alcohol and pot.
I think the reason this thread has been going around and around and around (I can't look away from this f*cking trainwreck), is because science can't tell us her motives.
We can't argue gut feelings with each other, because we all have different reactions to it.
FACTS: She was high, drunk, and killed many people including herself. Autopsy results proved no brain events contributed to her death, or actions leading to her death.
FEELINGS: She was a fucking monster, she was an addict, she is misunderstood, she is a mental case. All of that shit is just opinions and trying to use your opinions to twist the facts, or trying to use the facts to change someones feelings about her motives are very, very tiring and useless.
The moral of this thread: some people will believe anything they see on tv, and never let facts get in the way of feelings and opinion.
the snide remarks still ... really... again?
I guess that truly is the is the only way you can get an opinion across ... with a jab
to someone who doesn't agree :(
Instead of continually posting your opinions based on your feelings, stick with the facts and you may see the truth of what happened.
-You are arguing for an abscess, even though there is no evidence of an abscess. There is also no logical reason why an abscess would cause someone to drink a WHOLE bottle of vodka, and spark up some weed. Sorry, that is not logical.
-NO authoritative figure (cops, doctors, etc) suggested that something was missed and that another autopsy was necessary. Watch it again. Some placate the family after continuous prodding, but none hold that opinion.
-All witnesses said she seemed in control and knew what she was doing on the road. One witness even said it looked like she was on a suicide mission, so you can't dismiss the possibility that she wanted to kill herself.
Every single thing that you posted has been debunked with facts. Please review the previous few posts and you will see, instead of reposting your same 'feelings' and ignoring everyone else's rebuttal.
Thank you.
But I do not have to stick with only facts...
I can post my opinion any way I like and base it on what I like.
I have stated why they are what they are and what I base it on both fact and feeling.
Why is it so important to you that you continue to personally attack my view...
you won't change my mind
but
we can agree to disagree that is what civil people do
FEELINGS: She was a fucking monster, she was an addict, she is misunderstood, she is a mental case. All of that shit is just opinions and trying to use your opinions to twist the facts, or trying to use the facts to change someones feelings about her motives are very, very tiring and useless.
I understand what you're saying, I am just simply asking (those of you that accept the fact that she WAS drunk and high when she crashed the van) people's opinion on what they THINK was going through her mind. I realize that we probably will never know, and in the end it's not a cold, hard fact; however, I do think that, based on the evidence and the witness testimony, that we can form an opinion on what was going on in Mrs. Schuler's head. Because, in the end, I think there are only 2 possible answers:
a) either she was determined as hell to get the kids home and was driving like a bat out of hell to get them home, but she simply was too drunk to realize she was going the wrong way down the highway, or...
b) It was murder/suicide. She was intentionally trying to kill herself and didn't want to go out alone (control freak personality, fear of abandonment, etc.)
We do know, based on eyewitness testimony, that the van was driving in excess of 70 mph and that the driver was not swerving or moving out of anyone's way. She was driving "dead pin straight" and seemed to be determined and in complete control of the van.
Drunk drivers are usually all over the road, swerving and/or riding the shoulder. The van was heading perfectly straight down the highway at a high rate of speed. Maybe it took every bit of concentration to stay within the lines and she didn't realize how fast she was going, and was concentratingmore ON the road and not so much DOWN the road??
Maybe someone has an OPINION on what they think really happened, based on all the evidence, circumstational evidence and eyewitness testimony??
And, loveontwolegs, if you yourself do not want to share your opinion, then please just don't respond. You don't have to. I don't want to argue about it with you, I'm entitled to ask questions without someone cutting me off and determining that it's not worth asking("very tiring and useless"). If someone wants to answer me, they can.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
FEELINGS: She was a fucking monster, she was an addict, she is misunderstood, she is a mental case. All of that shit is just opinions and trying to use your opinions to twist the facts, or trying to use the facts to change someones feelings about her motives are very, very tiring and useless.
Maybe someone has an OPINION on what they think really happened, based on all the evidence, circumstational evidence and eyewitness testimony??
And, loveontwolegs, if you yourself do not want to share your opinion, then please just don't respond. You don't have to. I don't want to argue about it with you, I'm entitled to ask questions without someone cutting me off and determining that it's not worth asking("very tiring and useless"). If someone wants to answer me, they can.
I've voiced my opinion several times in this thread. It just seems that half of us are yelling LOOK AT THE FACTS! And some of us are yelling WHAT FACTS?? SHE WAS A NICE LADY. To me it seems the arguments have been apples to oranges instead of "looking at the facts, I FEEL this." And it has frustrated the hell out of me. Tiring and useless was in no way directed toward anyone in particular, just the overall tone of this whole thread.
Based on everything that was shown and said, I KNOW she was high and drunk. I believe from all the circumstantial stuff, she was an addict that was very, very good at hiding her problem. And, believing that she was an addict makes the suicide mission seem somewhat plausible, because sometimes addicts don't see any other way out. But what about the kids in the car?? Knowing what I do about suicide, once someone's mind is made up, it could take a force of nature to sway them. Maybe she was planning on driving home alone that day, was going to kill herself, her mind was on repeat, but she was stuck with the kids.... YOu just cant know...
Suicide mission is much much much much much more plausible than a medical event
I think so too. ANother piece of circumstational evidence it that she left her cellphone on the side of the road on the concrete divider; this was at approximately 1:15, right after she talked to her brother(and 15 min before the crash), who told her to stay put and that he was coming. Her family tried calling her again and it went straight to voicemail.
Again, 1 of 2 things happened:
a) She accidentally left it behind because she was drunk/high and perhaps panicked because her brother was coming to look for her and she would be in deep shit. She takes off, determined to get the kids home after 4 hours (should have only taken 35 min total) and get off the road.
b) She left it behin intentionally so that no one could contact her or the kids in the van.
Post edited by The Waiting Trophy Man on
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I've voiced my opinion several times in this thread. It just seems that half of us are yelling LOOK AT THE FACTS! And some of us are yelling WHAT FACTS?? SHE WAS A NICE LADY. To me it seems the arguments have been apples to oranges instead of "looking at the facts, I FEEL this." And it has frustrated the hell out of me. Tiring and useless was in no way directed toward anyone in particular, just the overall tone of this whole thread.
That's why I directed my question to "those of you that actually believe the EVIDENCE and the SCIENTIFIC FACTS and the AUTOPSY RESULTS." I'm going beyond the facts now and just asking people what they think her motives were. That's all. Not that it matters much, I was just looking for people's opinions.
Maybe we're not understanding each other. It's kind of hard sometimes on a message board, minus tones and facial expressions and everything. Anyways, thanks for sharing your opinion in your original post, which I didn't quote here.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Suicide mission is much much much much much more plausible than a medical event
I was thinking that also since she was apparently driving in a pretty straight line. Don't intoxicated people usually weave about?
I don't think you can say that overall, most probably do. I was just saying this medical talk is pissing in the wind. Why give her this ungodly benefit of doubt when this happens everyday.
Cause she's a woman
A mother
A woman with a one sided documentry
Wasn't a basketcase drunk
Held a job
Lot of prejudices when some want to avoid the facts starring them in the face.
It's like that little Jewish boy who was murdered in Brooklyn a few weeks ago. They never thought to look initially at their own community. I'm sure they had a prejudice to who they thought would be capable of the abduction than that horrific murder.
Point being, sons of bitches don't always look like sons of bitches
Comments
It's for the small boy....WTF
What about the others Diane killed???
Like I said.... Some of us here may need a drug test
It's like advocating for pedophiles to live wherever they want
Then your small child........
You get the drift
The small boy who's dad went on record saying he never wanted kids....
If the husband (and SiL) both got some help to try and overcome/accept the situation (and also that he will never really know what when on in her mind), the husband would be able to stop clutching at straws, deal with what is coming for the boy, and, in the process, the other families would be able to have some closure. Do they not deserve it?
I feel bad for him, no doubt will have some issues. But you can't change the facts....
I'm not sure that is correct.
Why bring a brain abscess up in a doc if Diane was found not have one?
That doesn't make sense and it seemed to be a well informed doc.
I think from what the old doctor said too he felt more could be proven
towards that theory with additional tests.... it was worth a shot for closure.
Yes I will pray for a better outcome. I will pray for closure for this family.
My thoughts are with the surviving child. This is an unforgiving world.
His life will be in turmoil, he will live ashamed and pitied and his mother disgraced.
So yes I hope they can clear his mothers memory and better understand what happened that day.
I am surprised more loving hearts would not want this scenario.
Unless it is easier to hate and blame in such a terrible tragedy.... I get that.
My heart is with the survivors.
As far as the others who died... if it were proven to be a horrible accident due to a traumatic brain event,
that Diane was terribly impaired before she consumed anything
that would also be somewhat more healing for all the loved ones,
because it doesn't make sense to any of the family as it stands now.
Each one has said this is not Diane. I believe it is not either.
Thanks for listening to my view on the doc...very controversial...very informative,
a really good piece they did.
I was shocked after seeing it, it stayed in my heart and thoughts long after I watched,
and it changed my opinion of this woman.
I believe she deserves better and I hope it is proven to be true.
If we are never meant to know
then for the sake of the child I hope the hate and blame goes away in his lifetime,
he will have enough to deal with just living without the loving mother he remembers.
Do you not see the pain the Schulers are causing them straight from their mouth. There is nothing contrversial here....Nothing
The Schulers live two towns away from me, The aunt in the doc use to come into my job(an italian deli on Little East Neck rd in west Bab when I was a kid) She was one of those people you dont forget...and that aint good
You would know if she came in the store with your back turned to her. A piece of work. Watching her try and spin Scientific facts...clearly she's not on that level
I love Long Island...but she's a dime a dozen round here. Thickheaded
Again, because some people are clutching at straws? Do you believe every doc you see on TV? I've seen a 'documentary' that suggested Hitler was a hermaphrodite - how funny is that and am I to believe it's true? It's TV for christ's sake. It's made to bring in revenues with ads. It wouldn't be a doc (or a very short one) if they showed the facts of the cause of the accident, ie the autopsy report, from the start, would it? Over in 5 minutes. Where's the drama in that? A woman was drunk and high, had kids in her car, drove on the wrong side of the road, killed the 4 children in her car, 3 other adults in another one and herself. Very tragic but really not worth any documentary. Whether she was a regular drinker or drug taker (or only an occasional one) doesn't matter. She was intoxicated when it happened, no 'brain event'/abscess/infection showing on autopsy - simple. The husband is looking for answers he will never get, ie the 'why', - these died when Diane died. He should have communicated with her while she was still alive. Closure for him will come when he accepts the facts. Unfortunately for the families of the others killed they can't get closure (as much as they want to) until he does because he keeps on turning the knife in their wounds.
The husband has mega baggage, he needs to deal with it, he needs help. The facts of the direct causes of the accident are plain to see. What was happening in this marriage are not. Maybe all was not what it seemed (the telling fact is that the husband didn't want kids but yet had two?), but it's really non of our business but while he's coming up with all these scenarios to 'clear' his wife, he is most probably not dealing with his 'real' issues which might hurt even more than the evidence. Or.... is all this a cynical ploy by the husband and the lawyers to deflect in view of civil liability? Wouldn't be the first time something like this happens.
Sighs.... Loving hearts would want to see the 'fantasy' scenario whilst non loving ones look at facts? It's not a question of hate or blame - you don't 'get' anything. It's hard, cold facts. It's very sad but it happened. Posters here did say bad things happen to good people. So let's not play this game, OK? No need to respond - end of this kind of talk insinuating negative 'feelings' for those not 'wanting' a certain scenario. End.
thanks again redrock, true to form... another put down and why? :?
Please be nice. I don't insult you. I 'get' quite a bit actually and
I get matters of the heart that's for sure!
Sometimes hard cold facts aren't the whole story as in this case.
The only facts that people are basing this on are the blood tests and the events
that day do not add up to the conclusion some are drawing, not at all.
One needs to use their heart to see the story behind the facts,
this more often then not, this the whole picture,
this is living!
Yes bad things happen to good people ... that would be for all the victims...
Diane was a victim too that day and I believe she was compromised mentally, beyond rational
thought, due to life threatening illness, a brain abscess, before she ever drank anything.
That is the only conclusion I can come to when I consider all the facts
and reason with my heart.
And again, I agree these facts aren't the whole story. But these are the factors that caused the death of 4 children, 3 adults and hers. She was drunk and high behind the wheel with 4 children in the car.
The WHY behind this is something completely different. Why she downed the vodka or smoked the pot when she knew she was driving and had the reponsibility of these little children (and again, we know that physical causes have been eliminated). There are many, many suggestions/theories as to how her week/end day actually went (cctv footage, contradictory statements, etc.), how she was 'for real' (ie behind closed doors), how stable she really was and what her relationship with her husband/family was. This will never be clear as I am sure a lot of people close to her will not want to open a possible Pandora's box for the public to scrutinize. And furthermore, it's for the family to deal with this.
And I will not dignify the 'get' thing with a response as when one reads the whole sentence, it's context is clear. Enough said.
I think I will bow out of this 'discussion' as it is going nowhere. Evidence of the cause of the accident is there. Full autopsy report is there. One can speculate as much as one wants about her life and frame of mind and 'saintness' (or not) depending on which theory one wants to 'follow'. But in the end knowingly driving under the influence is what killed these people. No blame or hate - just saying it as it is. Anything else, the family have to deal with it.
but will give you the benefit of the doubt... as I am doing Diane.
'it'
might have been better than "anything" ... anything, that implies you think I am stupid
which is how I took it but perhaps thats not how you meant it...
you wouldn't think that, right?
Again... they did not rule out a brain abscess or the doc would not have pursued that as a theory
and the old doctor involved would not have said the abscess was a possibility
Also they failed to take a hair sample to prove drug dependency... wonder what else was
missed because they assumed she was just another drunk driver....
making a choice to drink and drive with kids in the car.
If she was delirious she would not even have realized she was drinking vodka!
I've had a 106 fever and can tell you if a bottle of vodka was next to me on the nightstand
I would have drank it not even knowing what it was.
You fail to put yourself in the shoes of someone gravely ill or even consider the possibility.
I am open minded and want to find out, along with her husband, what happened that day,
still praying good word comes to help clear her name
and make life easier for the family and little guy.
I was out of this conversation as were you a couple times.... hopefully it sticks
Have a good day redrock...
A tooth abscess would NOT cause someone to be in such a trance to cause them to drink without knowing what they are doing. You are talking about a zombie state. Tooth abscesses do NOT cause that: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002055/
A brain abscess would show up in the autopsy, and it did NOT, as it would create swelling, irritation and a mass of cells: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001787/
What they are looking for is to lay blame somewhere other than where ALL of the facts point to, because they can't accept what Diane did. I don't think you were paying attention if you thought the 'cute old guy' was suggesting they do an autopsy. He repeatedly said it didn't show anything, and doing so again would likely yield the same results. They kept on pressing him for something, anything, so he relented and said, for their piece of mind, it wouldn't hurt to do it. You can see he felt bad but knew that there was no logical way to convince them that the facts paint the picture of what likely happened.
I agree with the hair test, so it could be proven that she had a drug history and put this nonsense that she was some faultless angel to rest.
The results showed NO brain abscess. A tooth abscess would not be a cause or excuse for her irresponsibility. And for that matter a brain abscess doesn't seem like a logical reason why someone would get wasted without intent. 'Confusion, drowsiness and irritability' don't fly for me, and they wouldn't in a court of law.
Remove 'thoughtless' and 'care' and that's what she was.
nowadays hits you when you're young
nowadays hits you when you're young
Like Diane was on "What's Happening" tv series, instead of a sad excuse for a human being
The TV puts some people in a trance
Instead of continually posting your opinions based on your feelings, stick with the facts and you may see the truth of what happened.
-You are arguing for an abscess, even though there is no evidence of an abscess. There is also no logical reason why an abscess would cause someone to drink a WHOLE bottle of vodka, and spark up some weed. Sorry, that is not logical.
-NO authoritative figure (cops, doctors, etc) suggested that something was missed and that another autopsy was necessary. Watch it again. Some placate the family after continuous prodding, but none hold that opinion.
-All witnesses said she seemed in control and knew what she was doing on the road. One witness even said it looked like she was on a suicide mission, so you can't dismiss the possibility that she wanted to kill herself.
Every single thing that you posted has been debunked with facts. Please review the previous few posts and you will see, instead of reposting your same 'feelings' and ignoring everyone else's rebuttal.
Thank you.
nowadays hits you when you're young
It makes you wonder....For those of us that actually believe the EVIDENCE and the SCIENTIFIC FACTS and the AUTOPSY RESULTS, what do you make of this??
Witnesses Elaine and Peter Royal (witnessed Diane Schuler coming the wrong way down the exit ramp) had this to say:
Peter: "It was as if we weren't even on the road."
Elaine: (agreeing) "yes."
Peter: "She's coming toward us, you know, I mean I'm blinking my lights and beeping the horn and she (Elaine) is flailing. And we drove up on the grass because otherwise we would have been hit. She never put on her brakes, she never even...her eyes didn't even move."
Elaine: "It was just (motioning like she's got her hands on the steering wheel), I'm goin' where I wanna go, I'm doin' what I need to do, I'm where I wanna be."
Peter: "And then she went around the bend, onto the highway itself."
Peter Grotto: (At the time estimated that the van was going 70 mph) "Dead pin straight, pin straight. Wasn't doing this (motioning as if swerving). It was dead. pin. straight. He called 911, saying the van was going "like a bat out of hell".
Lorna Ramos Morel: "It was like playing chicken. She was going straight up the road. We saw something coming at us, we reacted, we moved. She had no reaction at all. She didn't stop, she didn't slow down, she didn't move. I thought it was someone who was dead set on killing herself."
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Well said. Very sad for all involved.
Considering she had a fractured family (no contact with her parents), no contact with old friends and a limited immediate family, I can see how she could be depressed. Not to mention her shady husband. I believe there is a LOT that he is not saying and a lot that has not been made public about their relationship and recent events that may have caused her to possibly be in a fragile state of mind.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Unfortunately, we'll never know. Unless the truth comes out from Diane's own family(husband, sister-in-law). Watching the documentary you feel as though something is missing, that the whole truth isn't coming out.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Yes, from what I am reading here, they did not know she was feeling depressed enough to kill herself and others. Maybe they knew, but can't say, as it may make things worse. So, so sad indeed. :(
The only thing the science and the evidence says is what actually was going on in her body at the time of the crash. This was extremely high amounts of alcohol and pot.
I think the reason this thread has been going around and around and around (I can't look away from this f*cking trainwreck), is because science can't tell us her motives.
We can't argue gut feelings with each other, because we all have different reactions to it.
FACTS: She was high, drunk, and killed many people including herself. Autopsy results proved no brain events contributed to her death, or actions leading to her death.
FEELINGS: She was a fucking monster, she was an addict, she is misunderstood, she is a mental case. All of that shit is just opinions and trying to use your opinions to twist the facts, or trying to use the facts to change someones feelings about her motives are very, very tiring and useless.
Now she killed herself... was on a suicide mission with 5 kids in the car :wtf:
talk about sticking with the facts.... really?
And I will always look at both sides thats the kind of person I am.
I looked at it and felt the entire doc not just the fact of the blood levels
the snide remarks still ... really... again?
I guess that truly is the is the only way you can get an opinion across ... with a jab
to someone who doesn't agree :(
But I do not have to stick with only facts...
I can post my opinion any way I like and base it on what I like.
I have stated why they are what they are and what I base it on both fact and feeling.
Why is it so important to you that you continue to personally attack my view...
you won't change my mind
but
we can agree to disagree that is what civil people do
Thank you in advance for that... have a great day
I understand what you're saying, I am just simply asking (those of you that accept the fact that she WAS drunk and high when she crashed the van) people's opinion on what they THINK was going through her mind. I realize that we probably will never know, and in the end it's not a cold, hard fact; however, I do think that, based on the evidence and the witness testimony, that we can form an opinion on what was going on in Mrs. Schuler's head. Because, in the end, I think there are only 2 possible answers:
a) either she was determined as hell to get the kids home and was driving like a bat out of hell to get them home, but she simply was too drunk to realize she was going the wrong way down the highway, or...
b) It was murder/suicide. She was intentionally trying to kill herself and didn't want to go out alone (control freak personality, fear of abandonment, etc.)
We do know, based on eyewitness testimony, that the van was driving in excess of 70 mph and that the driver was not swerving or moving out of anyone's way. She was driving "dead pin straight" and seemed to be determined and in complete control of the van.
Drunk drivers are usually all over the road, swerving and/or riding the shoulder. The van was heading perfectly straight down the highway at a high rate of speed. Maybe it took every bit of concentration to stay within the lines and she didn't realize how fast she was going, and was concentratingmore ON the road and not so much DOWN the road??
Maybe someone has an OPINION on what they think really happened, based on all the evidence, circumstational evidence and eyewitness testimony??
And, loveontwolegs, if you yourself do not want to share your opinion, then please just don't respond. You don't have to. I don't want to argue about it with you, I'm entitled to ask questions without someone cutting me off and determining that it's not worth asking("very tiring and useless"). If someone wants to answer me, they can.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I was thinking that also since she was apparently driving in a pretty straight line. Don't intoxicated people usually weave about?
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
I've voiced my opinion several times in this thread. It just seems that half of us are yelling LOOK AT THE FACTS! And some of us are yelling WHAT FACTS?? SHE WAS A NICE LADY. To me it seems the arguments have been apples to oranges instead of "looking at the facts, I FEEL this." And it has frustrated the hell out of me. Tiring and useless was in no way directed toward anyone in particular, just the overall tone of this whole thread.
Based on everything that was shown and said, I KNOW she was high and drunk. I believe from all the circumstantial stuff, she was an addict that was very, very good at hiding her problem. And, believing that she was an addict makes the suicide mission seem somewhat plausible, because sometimes addicts don't see any other way out. But what about the kids in the car?? Knowing what I do about suicide, once someone's mind is made up, it could take a force of nature to sway them. Maybe she was planning on driving home alone that day, was going to kill herself, her mind was on repeat, but she was stuck with the kids.... YOu just cant know...
I think so too. ANother piece of circumstational evidence it that she left her cellphone on the side of the road on the concrete divider; this was at approximately 1:15, right after she talked to her brother(and 15 min before the crash), who told her to stay put and that he was coming. Her family tried calling her again and it went straight to voicemail.
Again, 1 of 2 things happened:
a) She accidentally left it behind because she was drunk/high and perhaps panicked because her brother was coming to look for her and she would be in deep shit. She takes off, determined to get the kids home after 4 hours (should have only taken 35 min total) and get off the road.
b) She left it behin intentionally so that no one could contact her or the kids in the van.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
That's why I directed my question to "those of you that actually believe the EVIDENCE and the SCIENTIFIC FACTS and the AUTOPSY RESULTS." I'm going beyond the facts now and just asking people what they think her motives were. That's all. Not that it matters much, I was just looking for people's opinions.
Maybe we're not understanding each other. It's kind of hard sometimes on a message board, minus tones and facial expressions and everything. Anyways, thanks for sharing your opinion in your original post, which I didn't quote here.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I don't think you can say that overall, most probably do. I was just saying this medical talk is pissing in the wind. Why give her this ungodly benefit of doubt when this happens everyday.
Cause she's a woman
A mother
A woman with a one sided documentry
Wasn't a basketcase drunk
Held a job
Lot of prejudices when some want to avoid the facts starring them in the face.
It's like that little Jewish boy who was murdered in Brooklyn a few weeks ago. They never thought to look initially at their own community. I'm sure they had a prejudice to who they thought would be capable of the abduction than that horrific murder.
Point being, sons of bitches don't always look like sons of bitches
Let's stop being naive
Hi Lizard
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me