Going by autopsy report, apart from the alcohol/drugs and injuries due to the crash, there was nothing to suggest ANYTHING went to her brain, whether infection or 'event' of any kind. 'Unremarkable' is the term used in these cases.
So... toxicology results - massive amount of alcohol (some still undigested in her stomach) and drugs, autopsy (brain sliced) - nothing wrong with the brain. Hmmmm... for me that's enough to say she was obviously seriously 'under the influence' when she had the accident and none of these 'excuses'.
Whether she may have been doing drugs/drinking/been depressed/supressed, whatever before that does not take away the fact that she deliberately went in her car drunk and high with 4 little children, killed them and other innocent people. As 'saintly' as she may have seemed to be in her life (maybe all is not what it seems there too).
Again, husband needs help in coming to terms with what his wife did so he can 'let it be'. Maybe then the families of the other children and adults killed by this woman can also find closure.
-If she was in such excrutiating pain, would a family camping trip really be somewhere she wanted to be?
-Control issues, double life, secrets. Addiction is cunning, baffling, powerful and SELFISH. The disease of addiction will do anything to keep it alive in its host, including lying to loved ones. My father is a funny, kindhearted soul that everyone loves and has never missed a day of work in his life. My father is an alcoholic, and his addiction continues to devastate my family daily. You should read One Crafty Mother's blog site. Sober now, she gives insight into how absolutely skilled she was at hiding her addiction from those that loved her most.
-The money that they are using to exhume the body, run additional tests should instead be used to get the remaining family a lot of therapy to deal with this horrific tragedy.
One thing that I take issue with Pandora, is you have mentioned many times addiction/horrible person. Addiction is a disease, you don't have to be a horrible person to have it.
I thought it was sad when the husband said he never even wanted kids and now he has to raise his son alone. Damn. Now that kid is gonna know that when he is older!
So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
I haven’t read through this whole thread, but to those of you who got a message from the mods, they don’t have to receive a complaint to give you a warning. I think you might be accusing someone of something that may not have taken place. The mods may have just felt the thread was getting a little nasty. That’s all they need to give you a shout out to cool it or whatever they told you to do.
Don't just assume someone complained specifically about you.
One thing that I take issue with Pandora, is you have mentioned many times addiction/horrible person. Addiction is a disease, you don't have to be a horrible person to have it.
From what I read tooth/ brain abscess can go from no pain or very manageable
to life threatening with extreme lost of brain function.
Are we are assuming she is an addict and drunk here without proof?
I know addiction is a disease please don't assume I know nothing about that.
More than I care to really.
My point I think I didn't get across it is a horrible person who gets behind the wheel knowingly to endanger children
This my assumption as it appears to be many here.
this before I watched the doc.
I go back to no evidence she was the least bit compromised until after the accident.
Something happened to her... to her brain function and it points directly to the abscess.
I feel like you are all wasting your time and energy trying to reason with Pandora and get her to see some logic.....she can't see past the end of her own nose when it comes to something other than her own opinion.
I thought it was sad when the husband said he never even wanted kids and now he has to raise his son alone. Damn. Now that kid is gonna know that when he is older!
I thought the same too,
I know he is grieving and overwhelmed and then adding all the hatred toward his wife
but yes he should have not shared that for his boys sake, I hope it came from wanting to escape from this nightmare and his child will someday understand that he didn't mean it.
I feel like you are all wasting your time and energy trying to reason with Pandora....she can't see past the end of her own nose when it cones to something other than her own opinion.
we are all entitled to our opinion and it is no ones job to reason someone out of it
-If she was in such excrutiating pain, would a family camping trip really be somewhere she wanted to be?
-Control issues, double life, secrets. Addiction is cunning, baffling, powerful and SELFISH. The disease of addiction will do anything to keep it alive in its host, including lying to loved ones. My father is a funny, kindhearted soul that everyone loves and has never missed a day of work in his life. My father is an alcoholic, and his addiction continues to devastate my family daily. You should read One Crafty Mother's blog site. Sober now, she gives insight into how absolutely skilled she was at hiding her addiction from those that loved her most.
-The money that they are using to exhume the body, run additional tests should instead be used to get the remaining family a lot of therapy to deal with this horrific tragedy.
One thing that I take issue with Pandora, is you have mentioned many times addiction/horrible person. Addiction is a disease, you don't have to be a horrible person to have it.
VERY WELL SAID!!! I tried a couple of days ago to get Pandora to see that anyone could suffer from addiction and that there are a lot of people out there who are VERY good at hiding it.....there's no point in trying to make her see a logical side of this debate, she is blind to it and will only believe what she wants to believe about Diane Schuler.
I feel like you are all wasting your time and energy trying to reason with Pandora and get her to see some logic.....she can't see past the end of her own nose when it comes to something other than her own opinion.
When did we devolve this thread into an attack on a specific poster?
The discussion is about the documentary, not 10C members. Let's stick to the topic.
My prior role required me to read a lot of autospy reports and interview pathologists. If she had something like a brain abscess, it likely would have been immediately identified upon opening the skull, or exploring the brain itself.
That's not so say that she didn't have some other subtle process going on. But I really think that if she did, they would have found some clinical sign of it by now.
Tests are just tests, though. The results show what they do, now all anyone can do is try to backfill a story that matches. And nothing that I've read here (I haven't seen the documentary) clearly explains what happened to her, or why there is such an apparent disconnect between how she appeared to others and what the toxicology findings demonstrated.
The part that's really hard to stomach is all the resulting litigation.
Something happened to her... to her brain function and it points directly to the abscess.
From the autopsy report:
"Brain, Hippocampi, Right and Left: (2) No pathological changes. The brain tissue hasno inflammatory response(glial reaction or lyphocytes) and no neuronal inclusions. Mild post mortem artifacts of processing of brain tissue, pseudo brain tissue edema and pyknotic neurons.
The leptomeninges are free of cell infiltrates."
.......
"The 1340 gram brain has some softening and the brain gyri are unremarkable on on sectioning the brain reveals demarcated cortex and white matter with no mass lesions of hemorrhages. Cerebellum and brain stem are unremarkable on sectioning. The brain base arteries and in the central Circle of Willis area some accumulation of post mortem clot with no significant subrachnoid hemorrhages to no aneurysms. The upper cervical spine canal ans Atlanto-occipital dislocation and transection of the spinal cord with no significant hemorrhages"
All of this 'medical' stuff (if one cares to read it), straight from the autopsy report. No infection, no abscess, no 'event'. Anything like that would be seen upon sectioning of the brain (or MRIs). No excuse. Plain and simple.
This obviously does not explain the why (and that no one will every find out) but it does give the hard facts.
Please stick to debating the topic. No more derailing topic integrity or personal attacks. See the Posting Guidelines. Be nice. Discuss, disagree and debate politely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here.
After hearing the stories...I don't believe there is any way possible someone isnt knowingly consuming the equivalent of 10 shots of vodka, and smoking weed, at some point during their binge.
She fucked up. Really bad. Likely made terrible decisions, but terrible things happen to good people.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
After hearing the stories...I don't believe there is any way possible someone isnt knowingly consuming the equivalent of 10 shots of vodka, and smoking weed, at some point during their binge.
She fucked up. Really bad. Likely made terrible decisions, but terrible things happen to good people.
Too true... could be one single poor choice that leads to something like this.
After hearing the stories...I don't believe there is any way possible someone isnt knowingly consuming the equivalent of 10 shots of vodka, and smoking weed, at some point during their binge.
She fucked up. Really bad. Likely made terrible decisions, but terrible things happen to good people.
This Doc isn't that thought provoking. Her BAC was high, as was she from the pot. The reasons for why she got here are in the "who cares category" for me.We want motives, but motives aren't important in this case..... She did something horrible
Its our own curiosity as humans to want to know why. This family is unique to others who try to heal from such a tragedy, instead they seek the camera with no real ground to stand on. HBO reached out to them, and was probably shocked they wanted to participate. It's very much dominated by the Shulers instead of the small amount dedicated to the victims of the other car.
This isn't an unsolved murder mystery, we know who the culprit is
She had the symptoms from the info in the documentary related to such.
Beginning stages...headache, nausea, confusion,
when it become severe it results in
Fever, vision problems, grave confusion,
also paralysis can occur depending what part of the brain is affected.
Understanding speech is effected as is cognitive ability....
eventually coma.
Hmm, I've never heard of fever or vision problems causing somebody to drink. :roll: Too bad she wasn't paralyzed or sent into a coma, then she wouldn't have her foot on the gas, flying straight down the highway. That's quite a stretch of logic there.
Her personality traits coupled with being gravely ill proved to be deadly.
Her nature.... to never ask for help and a must do type person, always in control
kept her moving when she was without rational thought driven only by pain and fear.
Who said she was gravely ill?! Sorry, but a toothache doesn't make someone gravely ill. You're actually painting her as a good person by saying her 'do everything' attitude led her to make a mistake. How about the pot smoking part of her nature? Or the likely closet alcoholic part of her nature?
I go to the fact no one could provide any evidence of her being a drunk or addict.
Only good things were said about her by the people who knew her best...
to casual friends throughout the years, to coworkers etc.
Who did they ask? Her husband and sister in law. Of course they are defending her. Her husband seems shady and likely keeping a lot of things hidden from the public about her and their relationship. It's very possible, very likely that there is a lot more to her than was presented in this documentary, and I'd bet it's not all flattering. We do know she smoked weed, and every time the husband was asked about it he got really uncomfortable and gave different answers.
I believe she did not make rational decisions and knowingly drink
And everyone is entitled to their opinion.
[/quote]
Sure, you can have a positive opinion of murderers, child molesters, drunks, abusers, you name it. Doesn't mean you're not going to get called out on it.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
I think not everyone here watched the doc perhaps :? ... I don't know
numerous people were interviewed on her character not just her husband and sister in law
people from all aspects of her life throughout the years, this they spent a lot of time on.
the doc did a good job on conveying her character, I thought, in general, maybe too good.
One reason why I asked if anyone thought it a bias doc.
Perhaps reading about a brain abscess might help to understand what really happens,
I didn't know either and found it very informative, it helped me visualize what she may be experiencing.
Actually I found it frightening considering my need of dental work repair.
Now I will know the symptoms cause there is not always great pain
and it is life threatening.
Why would people assume that a person with conflicting opinions are more lenient than they
on other topics ? That's a leap to judgement.
Opinions are meant to be shared not judged, well thats what I think... at least amongst friends.
Perhaps reading about a brain abscess might help to understand what really happens,
I didn't know either and found it very informative, it helped me visualize what she may be experiencing.
Good you are reading up on brain abscesses and what they are, but, again, since there were issues with the brain tissue, as the autopsy reports verified, it's not really relevant here, is it?
Perhaps reading about a brain abscess might help to understand what really happens,
I didn't know either and found it very informative, it helped me visualize what she may be experiencing.
Good you are reading up on brain abscesses and what they are, but since there were issues with the brain tissue,as the autopsy reports verified, it's not really relevant here, is it?
Brain abscess (or cerebral abscess) is an abscess caused by inflammation and collection of infected material, coming from local (ear infection, dental abscess, infection of paranasal sinuses, infection of the mastoid air cells of the temporal bone, epidural abscess) or remote (lung, heart, kidney etc.) infectious sources, within the brain tissue. The infection may also be introduced through a skull fracture following a head trauma or surgical procedures. Brain abscess is usually associated with congenital heart disease in young children. It may occur at any age but is most frequent in the third decade of life.
lots of good info on the internet listing symptoms etc.
in case anyone wants to know more
Perhaps reading about a brain abscess might help to understand what really happens,
I didn't know either and found it very informative, it helped me visualize what she may be experiencing.
Good you are reading up on brain abscesses and what they are, but since there were issues with the brain tissue,as the autopsy reports verified, it's not really relevant here, is it?
there were issues? or not ?
:roll: OK... caught my typo... guess you didn't bother reading the autopsy post... It's 'were no'
Edit: For ease of reference, here is the 'important' bit of the post:
"From the autopsy report:
"Brain, Hippocampi, Right and Left: (2) No pathological changes. The brain tissue has no inflammatory response (glial reaction or lyphocytes) and no neuronal inclusions. "
I believe an abscess was not looked into... this one reason for the exhumation along with other tests.
I believe this is what the family is attempting to prove as the expert doctor, that cute old guy,
said on the doc... for finality do this. Hopeful to find an answer... a better one.
I really liked that guy
"The results of an autopsy conducted by a Westchester County medical examiner one day after the accident found that Schuler had not suffered a stroke, aneurysm, or heart attack.
In September, New York's top forensic pathologist said that a hair test should have been done to determine Diane Schuler's drug history."
Perhaps they will be able to find out one way or another and I still pray the results show an abscess for this small boys sake and her loving family. That would be awesome for all involved. A healing end.
It would be a better outcome than
she was a thoughtless drunk driver who didn't care about the kids in her car,
this not something there seems to be any proof of.
Pandora... the brain was sliced, every bit of it looked at! Thus the conclusion in the autopsy that the brain (or sections thereof) was 'unremarkable'. I have quoted the bits that were relevant to the brain and head. Please read and you may understand that this was physically looked into. You can pray as much as you want, but the cold facts are there.
Now for hair test and drug history... that's different.
Comments
So... toxicology results - massive amount of alcohol (some still undigested in her stomach) and drugs, autopsy (brain sliced) - nothing wrong with the brain. Hmmmm... for me that's enough to say she was obviously seriously 'under the influence' when she had the accident and none of these 'excuses'.
Whether she may have been doing drugs/drinking/been depressed/supressed, whatever before that does not take away the fact that she deliberately went in her car drunk and high with 4 little children, killed them and other innocent people. As 'saintly' as she may have seemed to be in her life (maybe all is not what it seems there too).
Again, husband needs help in coming to terms with what his wife did so he can 'let it be'. Maybe then the families of the other children and adults killed by this woman can also find closure.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Don't just assume someone complained specifically about you.
So true.
to life threatening with extreme lost of brain function.
Are we are assuming she is an addict and drunk here without proof?
I know addiction is a disease please don't assume I know nothing about that.
More than I care to really.
My point I think I didn't get across it is a horrible person who gets behind the wheel knowingly to endanger children
This my assumption as it appears to be many here.
this before I watched the doc.
I go back to no evidence she was the least bit compromised until after the accident.
Something happened to her... to her brain function and it points directly to the abscess.
I know he is grieving and overwhelmed and then adding all the hatred toward his wife
but yes he should have not shared that for his boys sake, I hope it came from wanting to escape from this nightmare and his child will someday understand that he didn't mean it.
.
VERY WELL SAID!!! I tried a couple of days ago to get Pandora to see that anyone could suffer from addiction and that there are a lot of people out there who are VERY good at hiding it.....there's no point in trying to make her see a logical side of this debate, she is blind to it and will only believe what she wants to believe about Diane Schuler.
When did we devolve this thread into an attack on a specific poster?
The discussion is about the documentary, not 10C members. Let's stick to the topic.
My prior role required me to read a lot of autospy reports and interview pathologists. If she had something like a brain abscess, it likely would have been immediately identified upon opening the skull, or exploring the brain itself.
That's not so say that she didn't have some other subtle process going on. But I really think that if she did, they would have found some clinical sign of it by now.
Tests are just tests, though. The results show what they do, now all anyone can do is try to backfill a story that matches. And nothing that I've read here (I haven't seen the documentary) clearly explains what happened to her, or why there is such an apparent disconnect between how she appeared to others and what the toxicology findings demonstrated.
The part that's really hard to stomach is all the resulting litigation.
From the autopsy report:
"Brain, Hippocampi, Right and Left: (2) No pathological changes. The brain tissue has no inflammatory response (glial reaction or lyphocytes) and no neuronal inclusions. Mild post mortem artifacts of processing of brain tissue, pseudo brain tissue edema and pyknotic neurons.
The leptomeninges are free of cell infiltrates."
.......
"The 1340 gram brain has some softening and the brain gyri are unremarkable on on sectioning the brain reveals demarcated cortex and white matter with no mass lesions of hemorrhages. Cerebellum and brain stem are unremarkable on sectioning. The brain base arteries and in the central Circle of Willis area some accumulation of post mortem clot with no significant subrachnoid hemorrhages to no aneurysms. The upper cervical spine canal ans Atlanto-occipital dislocation and transection of the spinal cord with no significant hemorrhages"
All of this 'medical' stuff (if one cares to read it), straight from the autopsy report. No infection, no abscess, no 'event'. Anything like that would be seen upon sectioning of the brain (or MRIs). No excuse. Plain and simple.
This obviously does not explain the why (and that no one will every find out) but it does give the hard facts.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=91525
She fucked up. Really bad. Likely made terrible decisions, but terrible things happen to good people.
Too true... could be one single poor choice that leads to something like this.
Exactly....
Its our own curiosity as humans to want to know why. This family is unique to others who try to heal from such a tragedy, instead they seek the camera with no real ground to stand on. HBO reached out to them, and was probably shocked they wanted to participate. It's very much dominated by the Shulers instead of the small amount dedicated to the victims of the other car.
This isn't an unsolved murder mystery, we know who the culprit is
Hmm, I've never heard of fever or vision problems causing somebody to drink. :roll: Too bad she wasn't paralyzed or sent into a coma, then she wouldn't have her foot on the gas, flying straight down the highway. That's quite a stretch of logic there.
Who said she was gravely ill?! Sorry, but a toothache doesn't make someone gravely ill. You're actually painting her as a good person by saying her 'do everything' attitude led her to make a mistake. How about the pot smoking part of her nature? Or the likely closet alcoholic part of her nature?
Who did they ask? Her husband and sister in law. Of course they are defending her. Her husband seems shady and likely keeping a lot of things hidden from the public about her and their relationship. It's very possible, very likely that there is a lot more to her than was presented in this documentary, and I'd bet it's not all flattering. We do know she smoked weed, and every time the husband was asked about it he got really uncomfortable and gave different answers.
Maybe because she was intoxicated and 7 PEOPLE/4 CHILDREN ARE DEAD?! :evil:
And everyone is entitled to their opinion.
[/quote]
Sure, you can have a positive opinion of murderers, child molesters, drunks, abusers, you name it. Doesn't mean you're not going to get called out on it.
nowadays hits you when you're young
You're a better message board poster than I. :oops:
nowadays hits you when you're young
numerous people were interviewed on her character not just her husband and sister in law
people from all aspects of her life throughout the years, this they spent a lot of time on.
the doc did a good job on conveying her character, I thought, in general, maybe too good.
One reason why I asked if anyone thought it a bias doc.
Perhaps reading about a brain abscess might help to understand what really happens,
I didn't know either and found it very informative, it helped me visualize what she may be experiencing.
Actually I found it frightening considering my need of dental work repair.
Now I will know the symptoms cause there is not always great pain
and it is life threatening.
Why would people assume that a person with conflicting opinions are more lenient than they
on other topics ? That's a leap to judgement.
Opinions are meant to be shared not judged, well thats what I think... at least amongst friends.
It's on right now. I think it's on a couple more times today too. HBO.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
A car is like a loaded gun after you drink
Murders now have a defense.... My tooth hurt, so I had to purge
Good you are reading up on brain abscesses and what they are, but, again, since there were issues with the brain tissue, as the autopsy reports verified, it's not really relevant here, is it?
Brain abscess (or cerebral abscess) is an abscess caused by inflammation and collection of infected material, coming from local (ear infection, dental abscess, infection of paranasal sinuses, infection of the mastoid air cells of the temporal bone, epidural abscess) or remote (lung, heart, kidney etc.) infectious sources, within the brain tissue. The infection may also be introduced through a skull fracture following a head trauma or surgical procedures. Brain abscess is usually associated with congenital heart disease in young children. It may occur at any age but is most frequent in the third decade of life.
lots of good info on the internet listing symptoms etc.
in case anyone wants to know more
Edit: For ease of reference, here is the 'important' bit of the post:
"From the autopsy report:
"Brain, Hippocampi, Right and Left: (2) No pathological changes. The brain tissue has no inflammatory response (glial reaction or lyphocytes) and no neuronal inclusions. "
I believe this is what the family is attempting to prove as the expert doctor, that cute old guy,
said on the doc... for finality do this. Hopeful to find an answer... a better one.
I really liked that guy
"The results of an autopsy conducted by a Westchester County medical examiner one day after the accident found that Schuler had not suffered a stroke, aneurysm, or heart attack.
In September, New York's top forensic pathologist said that a hair test should have been done to determine Diane Schuler's drug history."
Perhaps they will be able to find out one way or another and I still pray the results show an abscess for this small boys sake and her loving family. That would be awesome for all involved. A healing end.
It would be a better outcome than
she was a thoughtless drunk driver who didn't care about the kids in her car,
this not something there seems to be any proof of.
Pandora... the brain was sliced, every bit of it looked at! Thus the conclusion in the autopsy that the brain (or sections thereof) was 'unremarkable'. I have quoted the bits that were relevant to the brain and head. Please read and you may understand that this was physically looked into. You can pray as much as you want, but the cold facts are there.
Now for hair test and drug history... that's different.