Morality Without God

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Even after I explained what I thought God was to me Byrnzie did not understand
actually he called it bullshit, that is how respectful of others beliefs he is.

You do speak to me like you know me because you assumed I could not understand your beliefs.

That is a presumption. And although you say in your post 'with all due respect' you are incredibly disrespectful and judgmental putting me and my beliefs down.
But I bet you do not see that.

All I have said when people have asked is and I'm not just throwing it out there or trying to convince anyone ... they ask


My basic belief...One must experience God for themselves... Go ask him who He is and what He is.


Why would you think I care about yours or anyone elses beliefs...
many seem to be interested in mine which I just don't get.

As I have said I have many people of all beliefs in my life that I love
and my basic belief would not allow me to change any of them even if I wanted to which I don't.

Your belief seems to go against religion
which I too believe God did, would, will, exist without religion
Some people believe strongly in their religion and that is a good thing, they need that,
I admire them and accept their beliefs and would not put them down for believing
in them.

Mother nature is the only thing I will miss when I leave this world
because that I can not take that with me.
Her beauty is only the here and now.
Love transcends all space and time though and is mine to keep on my path
as I journey on.

Barstool prophets.. do not dismiss them as you do hippies...
they just might be a friend someday and you may learn something from your experience with them.

And in my opinion... mine only ... which I am entitled to ...
your actions tell me you could be a kinder gentler soul.

This I derived from the way you treat me and others here.

1) not once did I assume you couldn't understand my belief. that was posed to Godfather. Clearly stated as such.
2) I am not Byrnzie. Direct comments about him to him, not me.
3) I don't put your beliefs down. I don't put anyone's beliefs down, because I know how personal they are to people are are no one else's business but their own. You mistake me challenging your belief system to challenging you to actually say what your belief system is. You are saying you don't understand why people are so interested in your beliefs? well through page upon page you keep trying to tell us without really telling us, it's confusing.
4) I wasn't belittling hippies. I have many hippie friends.
5) You say my belief goes against religion. that's quite a leap. please explain.
6) you are judging me by stating I "could be a kinder gentler soul". I think you could be kinder by not judging everyone else from your tower.
7) please explain your final comment about "how (I) treat others here". Can't wait to hear that one. YOU HAVE NO IDEA THE GOOD I DO AROUND HERE SINCE I DON'T NEED TO ANNOUNCE IT FOR MY OWN EGO. Most of it is done in private. Nice little dig though. What does that show about you and how you treat others? all you do is judge people who question you.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

short story for you Pandora............an old schoolmate of mine who came from a very religious family once said to me "go ask my Mom where God comes from". I said "Why?". He said "just do it" and giggled as I walked over to her. I asked her "where does God come from?". She looked at me slyly, with a little smirk on her face........."he's always been there". I said "well you have to arrive sometime to be somewhere". Her reply was steadfast "he's always been there".

While I didn't quite understand her viewpoint of not questioning the existence of something she based her whole life around, especially at my young age, I came to realize later that she needed to believe that since she couldn't understand it herself. It was HER need. She didn't care to understand it, because her faith told her it was ok not to know, to just have faith.

I can respect that. But just because I can understand the viewpoint, doesn't make me a bad person for asking someone to explain it to me so I can understand it, and not talk down to me or others in the process.

Saying to someone "just talk to him, and you'll find him" is not the acceptable answer in a debate. It is the acceptable answer between a priest and clergy. I'm not looking for anything myself. I'm good. I, and others, were just curious as to what your beliefs entailed. And to be answered as if we were being recruited is what puts people off. And I know, I know, you say you don't care if/what/how others believe, but your stance and the way you explained it didn't reconcile with that.

I don't treat others poorly, Pandora. I'd appreciate it if you didn't cast me in that type of light again without provocation. I don't feel I said or did anything to you or anyone else to deserve such comments.

Paul

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

And although you say in your post 'with all due respect' you are incredibly disrespectful and judgmental putting me and my beliefs down.

Your belief seems to go against religion
which I too believe God did, would, will, exist without religion

Mother nature is the only thing I will miss when I leave this world
because that I can not take that with me.
Her beauty is only the here and now.
Love transcends all space and time though and is mine to keep on my path
as I journey on.

And in my opinion... mine only ... which I am entitled to ...
your actions tell me you could be a kinder gentler soul.

This I derived from the way you treat me and others here.

1) not once did I assume you couldn't understand my belief. that was posed to Godfather. Clearly stated as such.
2) I am not Byrnzie. Direct comments about him to him, not me.
3) I don't put your beliefs down. I don't put anyone's beliefs down, because I know how personal they are to people are are no one else's business but their own. You mistake me challenging your belief system to challenging you to actually say what your belief system is. You are saying you don't understand why people are so interested in your beliefs? well through page upon page you keep trying to tell us without really telling us, it's confusing.
4) I wasn't belittling hippies. I have many hippie friends.
5) You say my belief goes against religion. that's quite a leap. please explain.
6) you are judging me by stating I "could be a kinder gentler soul". I think you could be kinder by not judging everyone else from your tower.
7) please explain your final comment about "how (I) treat others here". Can't wait to hear that one. YOU HAVE NO IDEA THE GOOD I DO AROUND HERE SINCE I DON'T NEED TO ANNOUNCE IT FOR MY OWN EGO. Most of it is done in private. Nice little dig though. What does that show about you and how you treat others? all you do is judge people who question you.

but you answered for Byrnzie :wtf:

You put me and my beliefs down.... they don't make sense,
I am a barstool prophet, I am wish washy ... hippie
that is personal and a putdown
and you are assuming you know me with those comments and are judging me.
Which seems to be something you do.

Have you read why I danced around what is my personal proof.
I've explained, perhaps you can take the time to read the posts.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

I believe in a force, you can call it god if you wish, but I don't. There is no being that has the power to answer prayer, there is no being that created us in his image, and all that stuff. There is no being that I speak to in time of need.

Nature is my god. Mother Earth is my god. No white beard. No holy spirit or son. Just what we see. The wonder all around us.

Sounds like your beliefs go directly against religion here
and that you believe in Mother Nature ... I addressed both.


I offer the thought that you don't have to be mean to get your point across.

What I'm saying is you can be disrespectful and abrasive to others so therefore you could be kinder and gentler... something wrong with that... being kinder and gentler?

Can we, including me, all not do that everyday.

High horse ...actually I am far more humble than you can even guess.

I have been humbled on life's path... not pretty but the up side to negative experience.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

You put me and my beliefs down.... they don't make sense,
I am a barstool prophet, I am wish washy ... hippie
that is personal and a putdown
and you are assuming you know me with those comments and are judging me.
Which seems to be something you do.

Have you read why I danced around what is my personal proof.
I've explained, perhaps you can take the time to read the posts.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

I believe in a force, you can call it god if you wish, but I don't. There is no being that has the power to answer prayer, there is no being that created us in his image, and all that stuff. There is no being that I speak to in time of need.

Nature is my god. Mother Earth is my god. No white beard. No holy spirit or son. Just what we see. The wonder all around us.

Sounds like your beliefs go directly against religion here
and that you believe in Mother Nature ... I addressed both.


I offer the thought that you don't have to be mean to get your point across.

What I'm saying is you can be disrespectful and abrasive to others so therefore you could be kinder and gentler... something wrong with that... being kinder and gentler?

Can we, including me, all not do that everyday.

High horse ...actually I am far more humble than you can even guess.

I have been humbled on life's path... not pretty but the up side to negative experience.

I don't put anyone's beliefs down. You misunderstood, and I stated it very clearly. I had a problem with how you were EXPLAINING your beliefs, not what your beliefs are. I ask what your beliefs are because I'm interested in the belief systems of all people. It helps me learn.

You can't say my beliefs go against religion. Religion can mean something completely different from person to person. My beliefs are my religion. organized? No, so if that's what you meant, then I guess my beliefs go against organized religion? But I don't think that either. I think organized religion can be a great thing, but I also think it can be quite an awful thing (wars, politics, etc).

Again, you speak for others about how I treat them. You don't know a thing about me or how I treat others. As I don't know a thing about you. You say I judge you, I say you are completely wrong. And I wasn't being mean. I'm just trying to get to the heart of your points.

And I read all your posts. I don't comment on things I don't read. Again, condesension on your part. I think I should leave this thread as I have nothing left to gain from it nor anything left to give it.

Peace, Pandora.

catefrances

ShimmyMommy wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

What if having good morals is the definition of God?

That way, God can be either gender then, as it doesn't matter what gender you are to have morals.

Maybe the question should be:

What defines good morals for a person?

:think:

For me, it would be common sense, life experience, and faith in humanity and the Universe.

But that's just me. :shifty:

faith in the universe??? how does one have faith in the universe??? is that like having the belief that things will work themselves out no matter if its detrimental or of benefit to you?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAh6fk0KD1c&ob=av2e

I can't see that video in my country :(

So I guess it's the same thing as believing in (a) God...

And I guess that does mean that for me...I don't mean that it should mean that for you. I often seem to find a seed of opportunity in things that don't go as planned, so I don't tend to stay upset about not getting something my way.

Ok, that confirms it. I am weird...as I suspected. :oops:

i have to admit, i too tend to embrace the unexpected more than..well.. the expected. its like a fresh breath of air and i really think it makes me feel more alive. oh sure i might be initially upset by things not going to plan... but when i stop and take stock of what is actually happening, im thrilled by what can be made of the situation.

i think what people call God, is Nature. and i think thats where it all started... a need to attribute natural occurrences to some sort of life force. and hey! i do that... i just dont call it God. no matter what some people think of me and my views on this subject, i am open minded... but until i am convinced of the existence of God(and i seriously doubt it will happen(an oxymoron perhaps??)) i cant simply have faith... its not how my brain or my mind works.

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

I don't put anyone's beliefs down. You misunderstood, and I stated it very clearly. I had a problem with how you were EXPLAINING your beliefs, not what your beliefs are. I ask what your beliefs are because I'm interested in the belief systems of all people. It helps me learn.

You can't say my beliefs go against religion. Religion can mean something completely different from person to person. My beliefs are my religion. organized? No, so if that's what you meant, then I guess my beliefs go against organized religion? But I don't think that either. I think organized religion can be a great thing, but I also think it can be quite an awful thing (wars, politics, etc).

Again, you speak for others about how I treat them. You don't know a thing about me or how I treat others. As I don't know a thing about you. You say I judge you, I say you are completely wrong. And I wasn't being mean. I'm just trying to get to the heart of your points.

And I read all your posts. I don't comment on things I don't read. Again, condesension on your part. I think I should leave this thread as I have nothing left to gain from it nor anything left to give it.

Peace, Pandora.

you put me down .... calling me wishy washy and barstool prophet
this dismisses me and my beliefs.

If you wanted to learn :? you wouldn't do this

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
I believe in a force, you can call it god if you wish, but I don't. There is no being that has the power to answer prayer, there is no being that created us in his image, and all that stuff. There is no being that I speak to in time of need.

Nature is my god. Mother Earth is my god. No white beard. No holy spirit or son. Just what we see. The wonder all around us.

I would say that goes against organized religion... "all that stuff"

if you read my posts I stated why I danced around why I was unclear
because here in the forum when discussing
my very personal experience and how I came to find God proved to be unpleasant,
but you already know this.

Why so against being kinder and gentler? ... kind of proves my point
and I do know you

and why do people use peace when they don't mean that at all

peace is beautiful ... peace is harmony ... peace is love

it seems to get used... and in unsolicited pms ... insincerely.

Godfather.

brianlux wrote:

whygohome wrote:

Who is this "God" that everyone is referring to? Can I go visit him? Can I talk to him? Where is he? Will he meet me at the local coffee shop?

God? I'm told he looks a lot like this dude:



Seems I've heard he's available on Wednesdays although I could be wrong.

we were created in his image(God's) so your post may not be so far off.

Godfather.

ShimmyMommy

catefrances wrote:

i have to admit, i too tend to embrace the unexpected more than..well.. the expected. its like a fresh breath of air and i really think it makes me feel more alive. oh sure i might be initially upset by things not going to plan... but when i stop and take stock of what is actually happening, im thrilled by what can be made of the situation.

i think what people call God, is Nature. and i think thats where it all started... a need to attribute natural occurrences to some sort of life force. and hey! i do that... i just dont call it God. no matter what some people think of me and my views on this subject, i am open minded... but until i am convinced of the existence of God(and i seriously doubt it will happen(an oxymoron perhaps??)) i cant simply have faith... its not how my brain or my mind works.

To me, faith is just a thought you continue to believe in. I feel that faith has been so frequently paired with Religion and God that people are missing the fact it is actually paired with everything. If you believe in Nature, you have faith in it. If you have believe in the bonds if friendship or family, you have faith in those things. What you believe is your faith. The thing about faith is that we tend believe it's only something that can save us. When it in fact is something that keeps hope in our lives. If we have no faith in anything (people, nature, the Universe, or whatever it may be--sometimes it can be a negative thing they put their faith into also) how does one keep going?

I don't know if I am being weird again, or making much sense. This is just my definition of faith and belief. I hope I have not offended you or anyone, and I apologize in advance if this is the case.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Why so against being kinder and gentler? ... kind of proves my point
and I do know you

and why do people use peace when they don't mean that at all

peace is beautiful ... peace is harmony ... peace is love

it seems to get used... and in unsolicited pms ... insincerely.

you have resorted to malicious character assassination to make some sort of "point", what this is, I don't know, nor do I care anymore. it's unfortunate, and without any merit.

someone who preaches peace love and understanding should try practicing it more.

anyone who claims to "know" someone on the internet merely through topical debtes, where this is a minute part of one's life, is disturbing, and dare I say delusional.

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

Why so against being kinder and gentler? ... kind of proves my point
and I do know you

and why do people use peace when they don't mean that at all

peace is beautiful ... peace is harmony ... peace is love

it seems to get used... and in unsolicited pms ... insincerely.

you have resorted to malicious character assassination to make some sort of "point", what this is, I don't know, nor do I care anymore. it's unfortunate, and without any merit.

someone who preaches peace love and understanding should try practicing it more.

anyone who claims to "know" someone on the internet merely through topical debtes, where this is a minute part of one's life, is disturbing, and dare I say delusional.

just as you do ...you can maybe dish it but not take it? this my point

I think I, at least, practice some how bout you?

you misunderstand again... I do not mean I know you outside of your words here...
your many words ... could they be from many mouths?
Perhaps....

chadwick

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

you have resorted to malicious character assassination to make some sort of "point", what this is, I don't know, nor do I care anymore. it's unfortunate, and without any merit.

someone who preaches peace love and understanding should try practicing it more.

anyone who claims to "know" someone on the internet merely through topical debtes, where this is a minute part of one's life, is disturbing, and dare I say delusional.

"malicious character assassination"

never heard of that before. that would be something if it were what is going on here betweeen you folks. i do not believe this is the case here.

just my two cents worth. btw, good description on how ppl smear each other, however, i'm sure she is not doing this to you. you two just have different views and wanna throttle one another with bricks and spitting cobras. yes/no? :evil:

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

just as you do ...you can maybe dish it but not take it? this my point

I think I, at least, practice some how bout you?

you misunderstand again... I do not mean I know you outside of your words here...
your many words ... could they be from many mouths?
Perhaps....

I don't try to dish it, as you just admitted you do. I don't judge people who don't share my views. I merely ask that they explain their position so other humans can understand what they are saying, not in philosophical terms as you tend to do. You stated you don't want to, for reasons I'm supposed to understand. Fine, then the discussion, as far as I'm concerned, is over.

My 'many words'? If you really want to get into that, check our joined dates. Pretty much the same. You have 5000 more posts than me. And really, what does that matter? are you going to say that to Dimitris? don't you think that's a pretty juvenile thing to say to someone? is that you "dishing it" again? I don't know why you insist on trying to insult me. I said "peace" to you and I meant it. I don't say stuff I don't mean. how you choose to interpret it is just that, your choice.

'many mouths'? elaborate please. I'm guessing that's another dish I'm supposed to gobble up.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

chadwick wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

you have resorted to malicious character assassination to make some sort of "point", what this is, I don't know, nor do I care anymore. it's unfortunate, and without any merit.

someone who preaches peace love and understanding should try practicing it more.

anyone who claims to "know" someone on the internet merely through topical debtes, where this is a minute part of one's life, is disturbing, and dare I say delusional.

"malicious character assassination"

never heard of that before. that would be something if it were what is going on here betweeen you folks. i do not believe this is the case here.

just my two cents worth. btw, good description on how ppl smear each other, however, i'm sure she is not doing this to you. you two just have different views and wanna throttle one another with bricks and spitting cobras. yes/no? :evil:

I don't wish to throttle anyone. No ill will. I just don't understand her hateful spewing of falsities in my direction.

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

chadwick wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

you have resorted to malicious character assassination to make some sort of "point", what this is, I don't know, nor do I care anymore. it's unfortunate, and without any merit.

someone who preaches peace love and understanding should try practicing it more.

anyone who claims to "know" someone on the internet merely through topical debtes, where this is a minute part of one's life, is disturbing, and dare I say delusional.

"malicious character assassination"

never heard of that before. that would be something if it were what is going on here betweeen you folks. i do not believe this is the case here.

just my two cents worth. btw, good description on how ppl smear each other, however, i'm sure she is not doing this to you. you two just have different views and wanna throttle one another with bricks and spitting cobras. yes/no? :evil:

I don't wish to throttle anyone. No ill will. I just don't understand her hateful spewing of falsities in my direction.

as I said you could sure give it to me earlier and yes I agree with Chadwick and he always makes me

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

just as you do ...you can maybe dish it but not take it? this my point

I think I, at least, practice some how bout you?

you misunderstand again... I do not mean I know you outside of your words here...
your many words ... could they be from many mouths?
Perhaps....

I don't try to dish it, as you just admitted you do. I don't judge people who don't share my views. I merely ask that they explain their position so other humans can understand what they are saying, not in philosophical terms as you tend to do. You stated you don't want to, for reasons I'm supposed to understand. Fine, then the discussion, as far as I'm concerned, is over.

My 'many words'? If you really want to get into that, check our joined dates. Pretty much the same. You have 5000 more posts than me. And really, what does that matter? are you going to say that to Dimitris? don't you think that's a pretty juvenile thing to say to someone? is that you "dishing it" again? I don't know why you insist on trying to insult me. I said "peace" to you and I meant it. I don't say stuff I don't mean. how you choose to interpret it is just that, your choice.

'many mouths'? elaborate please. I'm guessing that's another dish I'm supposed to gobble up.

You still aren't getting my meaning you could have 1000 posts but we'll move on from that.

I must say though as long as you brought it up

I'm loving my brother with his loving 40,000 posts

wish there was more and more like him, the world would be a finer place

He has a big heart that man, a truer one you wouldn't find.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

You still aren't getting my meaning you could have 1000 posts but we'll move on from that.

then just say what you mean.

EmBleve

chadwick always makes me laugh, too. I posted that one day last week I think in another thread. Especially in this thread I greatly appreciated his take on this subject on page 4 of this very thread. :thumbup:

edit: ahhh, yes, the repetitive sentence. Sorry.

pandora

EmBleve wrote:

chadwick always makes me laugh, too. I posted that one day last week I think in another thread. Especially in this thread I greatly appreciated his take on this subject on page 4 of this very thread. :thumbup:

edit: ahhh, yes, the repetitive sentence. Sorry.

He has a fan club within the fan club as does D...

mickeyrat

the "moral" thing to do would be to let this thread die peacefully. But what do I know?

pandora

mickeyrat wrote:

the "moral" thing to do would be to let this thread die peacefully. But what do I know?

:thumbup:
especially since it left topic long ago