With respect, violent gun crime in America is head and shoulders above that of any other in the western world.
Oh so your only worried about GUN crime... Other violent crime as much as possible is ok with you?
So rape is cool with you as long as its not enforced by a gun?
Holy over reaction Batman. I began this thread on the back of the particular article that I was kind enough to include in the OP. If you are confused or dazed, please refer back to it. If you want to start a thread on how violent crime is out of control, or that rape is bad, or building great wall #2 to keep them pesky Mexicans out, or how Al Quada are injesting cemtex anally or how the world went to shit when the black man got elected into office then do and maybe I'll chime in with my opinion on the subject matter.
Until then, unbundle the panties and relax man.
I like the part about the wall to keep the "pesky Mexicans" out.
To answer the question in the OP's thread title - never. It will never end. The cat is out of the bag and you can't put it back. America was born with loose gun laws and and will always be this way for good or bad. All of these other countries have never had the gun culture America has had for the past 200+ years. So it is easy for citizens of those countries to tell us to get rid of our guns and all of our problems would go away. It isn't that simple. You aren't going to be able to pass a law and round them up so you might as well spend more time and energy on education or maybe making it a little harder to get a gun. Or maybe, instead of allowing police departments to auction off guns that were used for evidence in criminal trials, they could just destroy them.
I don't own a gun and probably never will unless I inherit my dad's shotgun and deer rifle. But I don't have a problem with those who do and I don't think gun ownership is a right that should be taken away. I've never known a legal gun owner to use theirs in the commission of a crime.
I know a few people that have multiple guns and are into the whole assault rifle thing and I think that is crazy and unnecessary and they are nuts, but that's my opinion. Despite what the NRA says I believe any and all military-style assault weapons should be illegal. But they take it too far and want everything to be legal.
this is a cultural issue ... like i've said before - is it any wonder that a country that spends more on weapons than all the world combine, one that bombs first ask questions never, one that thinks its ok for kids to see mass carnage in movies but not a nipple ... has a violent crime problem? ... why are people shocked that a country that profits off war solves their disputes domestically with weapons?
Next you'll telling me that because (America) let me play with army guys and toy guns as a kid its going to turn me into a killer :roll:
Or that because I ate candy cigs as a kid is going to lead to me smoking :roll:
um...ya, the army guys and toy guns add to the military programming and desensitization of our kids, whether you want to admit it or not. Doesn't make you a murderer, but contributes to the culture polaris is talking about.
whilst kanada has zero problems? more homeless addicts reside in vancouver b.c. than anywhere else i know of. why? what are the reasons? there are a lot of gang crimes in Kanada.
Kanada makes a nice 2x4 and a wonderful cup of coffee.
don't think anyone says canada has no problems. Van is a beacon for drug addicts. They go there from all over Canada because drugs are cheaper in a port city, it's the only fuckin place warm enough to survive homeless year round, and because they have the best support programs anywhere in the country.
Not sure what you're talkin bout with the coffee. Timmy's?
um...ya, the army guys and toy guns add to the military programming and desensitization of our kids, whether you want to admit it or not. Doesn't make you a murderer, but contributes to the culture polaris is talking about.
Waiting for proof...
I guess putting those big, juicy popsicles in my mouth and playing with my bare-chested he-man figures as a kid made me..........
um...ya, the army guys and toy guns add to the military programming and desensitization of our kids, whether you want to admit it or not. Doesn't make you a murderer, but contributes to the culture polaris is talking about.
Waiting for proof...
I guess putting those big, juicy popsicles in my mouth and playing with my bare-chested he-man figures as a kid made me..........
I'm not saying guns should be banned and that nobody should have guns. People hunt etc, and that's fine.
But getting a gun should NOT be as easy as it can be. They should not be legally available to people who can't handle them responsibly. Now, I'm sorry if that's a bit of an inconvenience to some of you, but surely it's a small price to pay. If it's your right to own a gun and you have a sensible reason to have one and you know how to handle them (don't go berserk and shoot others) - surely you'll have no problem jumping through a couple of hoops to get your firearm. It's not taking away your rights, it's not about "the man" putting you down, it's about public safety.
How can you impose such restrictions and screenings without infringing upon the Constitutional rights of everyone?
Would a car analogy work in this situation. To get a license to drive, we have to be of age and pass periodic tests. There's plenty of laws and restrictions on how to drive and penalties if you drive irresponsibly. Cars don't kill people, but people in cars certainly do. You can lose your license due to medical conditions, failing the test, irresponsible driving, or even committing unrelated offenses. If you own a car you have to register it and connect it to your name, address, etc. You also have to pay insurance to drive it. Police monitor you when you drive. It's illegal to drive under the influence. There's a lot of safety regulations on cars themselves. It sounds like the government imposes way more restrictions on driving than using a gun. I wonder how we've survived all these years under this Stalinesque control?
people kill people guns don't kill people.
very sad story but just because he used a gun dose not mean I have to give mine up
not for you or anybody else.
Godfather.
No Offense Godfather, but I disagree with this old saying.
Just last year a kid brought a gun to school and it fell out of his backpack and discharged. I believe bullets struck two children. I know, you're going to say that it was his negligence though. The point is that it wasn't intentional. Yes, it was an accident, but the gun was the problem.
13 years ago I came into the room where my roomate/friend was cleaning a shotgun. I though maybe I should know how to operate the thing because we lived in a bad neighborhood. MY roomate/friend is a long time gun owner, smart, and very knowledgeable. I didnt even think the shotgun was completely assmebled before the thing suddenly discharged and the round missed my head by about two feet. I couldnt hear out of my left ear for a week. I felt the 'whoosh' of the pellets. The round hit the ceiling a few feet behind me and went clear out of the roof outside. My friend/roomate has since gone on to become a cop . Seriously. So I am sorry if I just cant agree with "guns dont kill people, people kill people". These were unintentional acts that could've killed people. I cringe when I see a gun now. Once a bullet accidentally flies by your head, you tend to think things through a little differently.
no brother the gun was not the problem the kid taking it to school was the problem and your friend with the shotgun was again negligence, these weapons are not toy's and not to be mishandled,unfortunate accidents like these happen and it's not because the gun loaded and aimed itself then fired, every time it is human error.
people kill people guns don't kill people.
very sad story but just because he used a gun dose not mean I have to give mine up
not for you or anybody else.
Godfather.
No Offense Godfather, but I disagree with this old saying.
Just last year a kid brought a gun to school and it fell out of his backpack and discharged. I believe bullets struck two children. I know, you're going to say that it was his negligence though. The point is that it wasn't intentional. Yes, it was an accident, but the gun was the problem.
13 years ago I came into the room where my roomate/friend was cleaning a shotgun. I though maybe I should know how to operate the thing because we lived in a bad neighborhood. MY roomate/friend is a long time gun owner, smart, and very knowledgeable. I didnt even think the shotgun was completely assmebled before the thing suddenly discharged and the round missed my head by about two feet. I couldnt hear out of my left ear for a week. I felt the 'whoosh' of the pellets. The round hit the ceiling a few feet behind me and went clear out of the roof outside. My friend/roomate has since gone on to become a cop . Seriously. So I am sorry if I just cant agree with "guns dont kill people, people kill people". These were unintentional acts that could've killed people. I cringe when I see a gun now. Once a bullet accidentally flies by your head, you tend to think things through a little differently.
no brother the gun was not the problem the kid taking it to school was the problem and your friend with the shotgun was again negligence, these weapons are not toy's and not to be mishandled,unfortunate accidents like these happen and it's not because the gun loaded and aimed itself then fired, every time it is human error.
Godfather.
Exactly my point.. even a trained, respected, and trusted friend can be negligent. You could even say I was negligent to enter the room that had a gun in it. I had a bad feeling about it. Even the most trusted person is human and capable of human error. Nobody is perfect. The way I see it is, that people kill people when its intentional, and guns kill people when its unintentional or negligence -- otherwise that person wouldnt be dead if a gun wasnt in the equation -- its otherwise impossible for that person to die, therefore, the negligence combined with the gun killed someone. But, I guess well have to agree to disagree.
as far as the old saying goes, yes kike I said I agree 'people kill people", but they do it with guns, and many are by accident. I will modify that old saying: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns."
People need a way to protect themselves and their freedoms. America's forefathers knew this.
On the other hand, tyrants (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-Il, etc) immediately confiscated weapons and subjected the populace to inhuman oppression and in some cases, genocide.
How can any sensible, freedom-loving human being advocate stealing guns from the populace? Because it SOUNDS nice?
People have choices. No gun owners I know are violent.
It only took the 5th response for someone to reference Hitler. Well done!
I was making a point. He confiscated firearms and look what happened. Hitler's name is mentioned when rights are stripped from the people because he was kind of the archetypical tyrant.
Just because you find mentioning Hitler to be cliche doesn't lessen the relevance brought to the discussion.
If this is your logic for keeping legislation as it is. That guns contribute nothing to the overall problem?? In that case, given that this tends to be a largly American phenominon are we to assume that Americans are particularly stupid when it comes to firearms?
No, you just hear more about these isolated gun crimes in the United States because this country hasn't been disarmed by the United Nations yet. George Soros and the rest of the media want nothing more than to steal away the second amendment. There is a constant war going on against this freedom.
Case in point, every time a crime happens, some anti-gun Congressman or Senator introduces legislation to take guns away. That's like taking kitchen knives away because one person cut their finger while slicing carrots.
If this is your logic for keeping legislation as it is. That guns contribute nothing to the overall problem?? In that case, given that this tends to be a largly American phenominon are we to assume that Americans are particularly stupid when it comes to firearms?
No, you just hear more about these isolated gun crimes in the United States because this country hasn't been disarmed by the United Nations yet. George Soros and the rest of the media want nothing more than to steal away the second amendment. There is a constant war going on against this freedom.
Case in point, every time a crime happens, some anti-gun Congressman or Senator introduces legislation to take guns away. That's like taking kitchen knives away because one person cut their finger while slicing carrots.
Wow, just wow. Once again, I am not advocating the confiscation of your all important guns. Serioulsy it actually amazes me how some of you show more care, love and devotion for these weapons than you do for your fellow man. The lack of empathy some show when speaking of human suffering is contrasted hugely by your utter devotion to the barrel.
Is thighter regulation really going to mean the end of the world as we know it. Is Hitler 2 really waiting behind some bushes for it to happen??
If this is your logic for keeping legislation as it is. That guns contribute nothing to the overall problem?? In that case, given that this tends to be a largly American phenominon are we to assume that Americans are particularly stupid when it comes to firearms?
No, you just hear more about these isolated gun crimes in the United States because this country hasn't been disarmed by the United Nations yet. George Soros and the rest of the media want nothing more than to steal away the second amendment. There is a constant war going on against this freedom.
Case in point, every time a crime happens, some anti-gun Congressman or Senator introduces legislation to take guns away. That's like taking kitchen knives away because one person cut their finger while slicing carrots.
Wow, just wow. Once again, I am not advocating the confiscation of your all important guns. Serioulsy it actually amazes me how some of you show more care, love and devotion for these weapons than you do for your fellow man. The lack of empathy some show when speaking of human suffering is contrasted hugely by your utter devotion to the barrel.
Is thighter regulation really going to mean the end of the world as we know it. Is Hitler 2 really waiting behind some bushes for it to happen??
Don't confuse "devotion to the barrel" with my devotion to the Constitution.
By defending that document, without which, all your rights would be stripped away- I am practicing devotion to "my fellow man".
And "Hitler 2" is not in the bushes, he's in The White House.
No, you just hear more about these isolated gun crimes in the United States because this country hasn't been disarmed by the United Nations yet. George Soros and the rest of the media want nothing more than to steal away the second amendment. There is a constant war going on against this freedom.
Case in point, every time a crime happens, some anti-gun Congressman or Senator introduces legislation to take guns away. That's like taking kitchen knives away because one person cut their finger while slicing carrots.
Wow, just wow. Once again, I am not advocating the confiscation of your all important guns. Serioulsy it actually amazes me how some of you show more care, love and devotion for these weapons than you do for your fellow man. The lack of empathy some show when speaking of human suffering is contrasted hugely by your utter devotion to the barrel.
Is thighter regulation really going to mean the end of the world as we know it. Is Hitler 2 really waiting behind some bushes for it to happen??
Don't confuse "devotion to the barrel" with my devotion to the Constitution.
By defending that document, without which, all your rights would be stripped away- I am practicing devotion to "my fellow man".
And "Hitler 2" is not in the bushes, he's in The White House.
Sound like parachute and electric delta have turned their freedom over to the fear mongers. "every time" one of the 10 to 12 thousand annual homicides with a gun happens someone wants to legislate taking away guns? No need for rational thought, Hitler 2 is in office!!!! As long as you two allow yourselves to be manipulated by fear, someone will be there to make money off of you.
Ben Franklin said, “Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security”.
I think Electric Delta stated it pretty clearly.
Confused? For starters, look up Ben Franklin....
who is advocating giving up liberty for security? your example has nothing to do with this discussion.
that happened when your boy bush signed the patriot act. we gave up certain freedoms so everyone can feel all safe and warm and snuggly and "secure". i don't see you complaining about giving up those liberties...
nobody is advocating taking all guns. nobody at all. so calm dawn.
it is a stupid argument to make that if they want to put restrictions on gun ownership, or make people get a license to buy a gun, that that it taking away your liberty.
and the application of that franklin quote is faulty logic. wouldn't taking your liberty (right to own a gun) also take away your right to protect yourself (security)??? :?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
And "Hitler 2" is not in the bushes, he's in The White House.
Right time to back up the sound bites, if you can. Are you really telling me that you are comparing a man that killed over 6 million people, changed the face of Europe forever, had many of his political opponents disappear, to that of the current encumbant? If so, back it up with some facts please
I'm not saying guns should be banned and that nobody should have guns. People hunt etc, and that's fine.
But getting a gun should NOT be as easy as it can be. They should not be legally available to people who can't handle them responsibly. Now, I'm sorry if that's a bit of an inconvenience to some of you, but surely it's a small price to pay. If it's your right to own a gun and you have a sensible reason to have one and you know how to handle them (don't go berserk and shoot others) - surely you'll have no problem jumping through a couple of hoops to get your firearm. It's not taking away your rights, it's not about "the man" putting you down, it's about public safety.
How can you impose such restrictions and screenings without infringing upon the Constitutional rights of everyone?
Would a car analogy work in this situation. To get a license to drive, we have to be of age and pass periodic tests. There's plenty of laws and restrictions on how to drive and penalties if you drive irresponsibly. Cars don't kill people, but people in cars certainly do. You can lose your license due to medical conditions, failing the test, irresponsible driving, or even committing unrelated offenses. If you own a car you have to register it and connect it to your name, address, etc. You also have to pay insurance to drive it. Police monitor you when you drive. It's illegal to drive under the influence. There's a lot of safety regulations on cars themselves. It sounds like the government imposes way more restrictions on driving than using a gun. I wonder how we've survived all these years under this Stalinesque control?
By lack-of-response default, I guess my analogy does work.
I always have to laugh when this comes up again. it's the same tired old bullshit. "the government is coming for me, so I need a gun to protect myself".
you people don't give a flying fuck about the constitution. you only say you do because shooting a gun somehow makes you feel like a man, and since it's in there, you quote it endlessly.
guns have absolutely no use in modern society. if you don't hunt for your food, you don't need a goddamn gun. case closed.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
I like the part about the wall to keep the "pesky Mexicans" out.
Well then, hit new thread and get yourself started friend.
I don't own a gun and probably never will unless I inherit my dad's shotgun and deer rifle. But I don't have a problem with those who do and I don't think gun ownership is a right that should be taken away. I've never known a legal gun owner to use theirs in the commission of a crime.
I know a few people that have multiple guns and are into the whole assault rifle thing and I think that is crazy and unnecessary and they are nuts, but that's my opinion. Despite what the NRA says I believe any and all military-style assault weapons should be illegal. But they take it too far and want everything to be legal.
Anyway, that's my rambling 2-cents.
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don't think anyone says canada has no problems. Van is a beacon for drug addicts. They go there from all over Canada because drugs are cheaper in a port city, it's the only fuckin place warm enough to survive homeless year round, and because they have the best support programs anywhere in the country.
Not sure what you're talkin bout with the coffee. Timmy's?
I guess putting those big, juicy popsicles in my mouth and playing with my bare-chested he-man figures as a kid made me..........
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=stud ... i=scholart
take your pick, it's been studied to death.
Would a car analogy work in this situation. To get a license to drive, we have to be of age and pass periodic tests. There's plenty of laws and restrictions on how to drive and penalties if you drive irresponsibly. Cars don't kill people, but people in cars certainly do. You can lose your license due to medical conditions, failing the test, irresponsible driving, or even committing unrelated offenses. If you own a car you have to register it and connect it to your name, address, etc. You also have to pay insurance to drive it. Police monitor you when you drive. It's illegal to drive under the influence. There's a lot of safety regulations on cars themselves. It sounds like the government imposes way more restrictions on driving than using a gun. I wonder how we've survived all these years under this Stalinesque control?
no brother the gun was not the problem the kid taking it to school was the problem and your friend with the shotgun was again negligence, these weapons are not toy's and not to be mishandled,unfortunate accidents like these happen and it's not because the gun loaded and aimed itself then fired, every time it is human error.
Godfather.
Exactly my point.. even a trained, respected, and trusted friend can be negligent. You could even say I was negligent to enter the room that had a gun in it. I had a bad feeling about it. Even the most trusted person is human and capable of human error. Nobody is perfect. The way I see it is, that people kill people when its intentional, and guns kill people when its unintentional or negligence -- otherwise that person wouldnt be dead if a gun wasnt in the equation -- its otherwise impossible for that person to die, therefore, the negligence combined with the gun killed someone. But, I guess well have to agree to disagree.
as far as the old saying goes, yes kike I said I agree 'people kill people", but they do it with guns, and many are by accident. I will modify that old saying: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns."
Godfather.
I was making a point. He confiscated firearms and look what happened. Hitler's name is mentioned when rights are stripped from the people because he was kind of the archetypical tyrant.
Just because you find mentioning Hitler to be cliche doesn't lessen the relevance brought to the discussion.
No, you just hear more about these isolated gun crimes in the United States because this country hasn't been disarmed by the United Nations yet. George Soros and the rest of the media want nothing more than to steal away the second amendment. There is a constant war going on against this freedom.
Case in point, every time a crime happens, some anti-gun Congressman or Senator introduces legislation to take guns away. That's like taking kitchen knives away because one person cut their finger while slicing carrots.
Wow, just wow. Once again, I am not advocating the confiscation of your all important guns. Serioulsy it actually amazes me how some of you show more care, love and devotion for these weapons than you do for your fellow man. The lack of empathy some show when speaking of human suffering is contrasted hugely by your utter devotion to the barrel.
Is thighter regulation really going to mean the end of the world as we know it. Is Hitler 2 really waiting behind some bushes for it to happen??
So as far as saving the day- ever- we can count you out.
Don't confuse "devotion to the barrel" with my devotion to the Constitution.
By defending that document, without which, all your rights would be stripped away- I am practicing devotion to "my fellow man".
And "Hitler 2" is not in the bushes, he's in The White House.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Sound like parachute and electric delta have turned their freedom over to the fear mongers. "every time" one of the 10 to 12 thousand annual homicides with a gun happens someone wants to legislate taking away guns? No need for rational thought, Hitler 2 is in office!!!! As long as you two allow yourselves to be manipulated by fear, someone will be there to make money off of you.
I'd rather stay on topic/have a back-and-forth about what we've said in this thread.
I am. "Give up your guns for security. We're the government-run media. We know what's best for you."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I AM THE FEAR MONGER.
Ben Franklin said, “Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security”.
I think Electric Delta stated it pretty clearly.
Confused? For starters, look up Ben Franklin....
that happened when your boy bush signed the patriot act. we gave up certain freedoms so everyone can feel all safe and warm and snuggly and "secure". i don't see you complaining about giving up those liberties...
nobody is advocating taking all guns. nobody at all. so calm dawn.
it is a stupid argument to make that if they want to put restrictions on gun ownership, or make people get a license to buy a gun, that that it taking away your liberty.
and the application of that franklin quote is faulty logic. wouldn't taking your liberty (right to own a gun) also take away your right to protect yourself (security)??? :?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Right time to back up the sound bites, if you can. Are you really telling me that you are comparing a man that killed over 6 million people, changed the face of Europe forever, had many of his political opponents disappear, to that of the current encumbant? If so, back it up with some facts please
By lack-of-response default, I guess my analogy does work.
So you don't like to exagerrate much then?
you people don't give a flying fuck about the constitution. you only say you do because shooting a gun somehow makes you feel like a man, and since it's in there, you quote it endlessly.
guns have absolutely no use in modern society. if you don't hunt for your food, you don't need a goddamn gun. case closed.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014