When is this going to end, does anyone really care?

Moonpig

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0708/michigan.html

Another one, and there are some of you on here will still deny there is a gun problem in America, and shout down anyone who talks of tighter regulations, pathetic display of empathy and logic.

They don't make you safer, nor do they keep your government in check (lol that excuse has always made me chuckle, imagine a government only doing right by her people because the citizenry are armed to the teeth), nor do they deter crime. But hey what the hell do I know right, you know what, keep you guns, if it's what makes you feel patriotic, fine, you're welcome to them.

The rest of the western world will continue to live in the 21st century.

eMMI

Reading this news today made my heart sink.

Something needs to be done.. I know people who are against stricter gun control will always say that bad guys will get guns if they really want them, guess that's true. But seriously, it doesn't need to be made easier.

Besides, I don't think this guy was a criminal, it didn't say anything like that on the article. Just someone who happened to have a gun and then decided to use it. Maybe because it was conveniently there when he got angry/upset? Who knows..

Just makes me so sad and angry.

Godfather.

people kill people guns don't kill people.
very sad story but just because he used a gun dose not mean I have to give mine up
not for you or anybody else.

Godfather.

dimitrispearljam

all guns kill people..even the empty one
Dimitris

chadwick

tragic.

it is the freedom, the choice to own a gun or not. i've owned several over the years.
today i do not own a gun, i aim to in the future. i was raised by a family with guns around. we hunted and we shot targets for the fun of it.

"nobody's taking our guns away" that is what you would hear at the homes of gun owners
and they are right... nobody is taking them

we're talking about rural iowa here. everyone has 3 or 4 guns. here kids learn to shoot when they are quite young. i had a shotgun at the age of a 3rd or 4th grader. we lived out in the country surrounded by farms and woods. we learned to hunt and be responsible with guns.

my brothers and i never had toy guns, mom and dad would not allow such nonsense. us kids all had fulltime jobs by the age of 10. some of our friends had 50cc mopeds to ride around on. (i remmember the iowa spree, a 50cc moped that went 25 mph) fuck that. my brothers and me had 125cc, 250cc and 360cc motorcycles.

some folks can handle living this way, others, not so much.

Electric_Delta

People need a way to protect themselves and their freedoms. America's forefathers knew this.

On the other hand, tyrants (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-Il, etc) immediately confiscated weapons and subjected the populace to inhuman oppression and in some cases, genocide.

How can any sensible, freedom-loving human being advocate stealing guns from the populace? Because it SOUNDS nice?

People have choices. No gun owners I know are violent.

eMMI

I'm not saying guns should be banned and that nobody should have guns. People hunt etc, and that's fine.

But getting a gun should NOT be as easy as it can be. They should not be legally available to people who can't handle them responsibly. Now, I'm sorry if that's a bit of an inconvenience to some of you, but surely it's a small price to pay. If it's your right to own a gun and you have a sensible reason to have one and you know how to handle them (don't go berserk and shoot others) - surely you'll have no problem jumping through a couple of hoops to get your firearm. It's not taking away your rights, it's not about "the man" putting you down, it's about public safety.

Electric_Delta

eMMI wrote:

I'm not saying guns should be banned and that nobody should have guns. People hunt etc, and that's fine.

But getting a gun should NOT be as easy as it can be. They should not be legally available to people who can't handle them responsibly. Now, I'm sorry if that's a bit of an inconvenience to some of you, but surely it's a small price to pay. If it's your right to own a gun and you have a sensible reason to have one and you know how to handle them (don't go berserk and shoot others) - surely you'll have no problem jumping through a couple of hoops to get your firearm. It's not taking away your rights, it's not about "the man" putting you down, it's about public safety.

How can you impose such restrictions and screenings without infringing upon the Constitutional rights of everyone?

eMMI

Electric_Delta wrote:

eMMI wrote:

I'm not saying guns should be banned and that nobody should have guns. People hunt etc, and that's fine.

But getting a gun should NOT be as easy as it can be. They should not be legally available to people who can't handle them responsibly. Now, I'm sorry if that's a bit of an inconvenience to some of you, but surely it's a small price to pay. If it's your right to own a gun and you have a sensible reason to have one and you know how to handle them (don't go berserk and shoot others) - surely you'll have no problem jumping through a couple of hoops to get your firearm. It's not taking away your rights, it's not about "the man" putting you down, it's about public safety.

How can you impose such restrictions and screenings without infringing upon the Constitutional rights of everyone?

Pretty easily, I'd say. There are restrictions and screenings for other things, you need permits to acquire other stuff in life, why not guns? Do you really think that any old nutter should be allowed to purchase a gun just cause they had the patience to wait three days?

Parachute

Tragic. Looks like America has a thug problem, not a gun problem.

Guns are my friends.

They are here to use in the event that some all powerful centralized gubmint tries to shred the Constitution...

The guns stay.

Godfather.

Electric_Delta wrote:

People need a way to protect themselves and their freedoms. America's forefathers knew this.

On the other hand, tyrants (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-Il, etc) immediately confiscated weapons and subjected the populace to inhuman oppression and in some cases, genocide.

How can any sensible, freedom-loving human being advocate stealing guns from the populace? Because it SOUNDS nice?

People have choices. No gun owners I know are violent.

:thumbup:

Godfather.

chadwick

eMMI wrote:

Pretty easily, I'd say. There are restrictions and screenings for other things, you need permits to acquire other stuff in life, why not guns? Do you really think that any old nutter should be allowed to purchase a gun just cause they had the patience to wait three days?

guns are all for sale and are sold at other places besides wal-mart, flea markets for example, ever been to the Rutledge, Missouri flea market? there, some women chew tobacco while walking a whole herd of coon hounds with a gun slung over her shoulder. mud knee deep in some cases, 4x4 trucks and other off road vehicales.

it's a real hoot.

the Amish down there have a butcher store selling prime meats for $1.00 per pound. horse shit is out in the parking area due to horse carriages and whatnot. you may step in it on your way in to buy some killer meats.

there at the flea market, back in the woods, you could purchase a non-registered gun for a reasonable price, in some cases i am positive one could get their mits on a full automatic weapon.

this kind of event happens all over the country yet not like Rutledge
http://www.rutledge-fleamarket.com/

JonnyPistachio

Godfather. wrote:

people kill people guns don't kill people.
very sad story but just because he used a gun dose not mean I have to give mine up
not for you or anybody else.

Godfather.

No Offense Godfather, but I disagree with this old saying.
Just last year a kid brought a gun to school and it fell out of his backpack and discharged. I believe bullets struck two children. I know, you're going to say that it was his negligence though. The point is that it wasn't intentional. Yes, it was an accident, but the gun was the problem.

13 years ago I came into the room where my roomate/friend was cleaning a shotgun. I though maybe I should know how to operate the thing because we lived in a bad neighborhood. MY roomate/friend is a long time gun owner, smart, and very knowledgeable. I didnt even think the shotgun was completely assmebled before the thing suddenly discharged and the round missed my head by about two feet. I couldnt hear out of my left ear for a week. I felt the 'whoosh' of the pellets. The round hit the ceiling a few feet behind me and went clear out of the roof outside. My friend/roomate has since gone on to become a cop . Seriously. So I am sorry if I just cant agree with "guns dont kill people, people kill people". These were unintentional acts that could've killed people. I cringe when I see a gun now. Once a bullet accidentally flies by your head, you tend to think things through a little differently.

Parachute

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

people kill people guns don't kill people.
very sad story but just because he used a gun dose not mean I have to give mine up
not for you or anybody else.

Godfather.

No Offense Godfather, but I disagree with this old saying.
Just last year a kid brought a gun to school and it fell out of his backpack and discharged. I believe bullets struck two children. I know, you're going to say that it was his negligence though. The point is that it wasn't intentional. Yes, it was an accident, but the gun was the problem.

13 years ago I came into the room where my roomate/friend was cleaning a shotgun. I though maybe I should know how to operate the thing because we lived in a bad neighborhood. MY roomate/friend is a long time gun owner, smart, and very knowledgeable. I didnt even think the shotgun was completely assmebled before the thing suddenly discharged and the round missed my head by about two feet. I couldnt hear out of my left ear for a week. I felt the 'whoosh' of the pellets. The round hit the ceiling a few feet behind me and went clear out of the roof outside. My friend/roomate has since gone on to become a cop . Seriously. So I am sorry if I just cant agree with "guns dont kill people, people kill people". These were unintentional acts that could've killed people. I cringe when I see a gun now. Once a bullet accidentally flies by your head, you tend to think things through a little differently.

Scary!

Glad ur okay.

Moonpig

Godfather. wrote:

people kill people guns don't kill people.
very sad story but just because he used a gun dose not mean I have to give mine up
not for you or anybody else.

Godfather.

Funny that, many many stats show that it is the lax gun regulations that contribute to these needless deaths. I made no mention of taking your precious guns away, only that tighter regulations are greatly required. If it meant lives saved surely that would outwiegh any extra waiting period or questions you may have to answer?

And this tired old retoric about dictators blah blah blah (granted the point was not made by yourself Godfather) - how does the rest of the world manage to function on a day to day basis without the need nor requirement for an armed citizenry?

Electric_Delta

Johnny Pistachio, I too am glad for your safety.

How did the schoolboy gain access to the gun? I blame the parents. A gun is an inanimate object. It will go only where it is carried. If the parents had locked the gun up or otherwise made it inaccessible to the boy, that would not have happened. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The answer is not to steal everybody's rights.

I actually lost a friend to an accidental gun discharge. I do not blame the gun.

Jason P

Democrats are scared shitless of the N.R.A. Republicans like the N.R.A. That pretty much sums it up.

Rather pointless to argue. Guns are here to stay.

Go Beavers

Electric_Delta wrote:

People need a way to protect themselves and their freedoms. America's forefathers knew this.

On the other hand, tyrants (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-Il, etc) immediately confiscated weapons and subjected the populace to inhuman oppression and in some cases, genocide.

How can any sensible, freedom-loving human being advocate stealing guns from the populace? Because it SOUNDS nice?

People have choices. No gun owners I know are violent.

It only took the 5th response for someone to reference Hitler. Well done!

Moonpig

Electric_Delta wrote:

Johnny Pistachio, I too am glad for your safety.

How did the schoolboy gain access to the gun? I blame the parents. A gun is an inanimate object. It will go only where it is carried. If the parents had locked the gun up or otherwise made it inaccessible to the boy, that would not have happened. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The answer is not to steal everybody's rights.

I actually lost a friend to an accidental gun discharge. I do not blame the gun.

If this is your logic for keeping legislation as it is. That guns contribute nothing to the overall problem?? In that case, given that this tends to be a largly American phenominon are we to assume that Americans are particularly stupid when it comes to firearms?

eMMI

Electric_Delta wrote:

Johnny Pistachio, I too am glad for your safety.

How did the schoolboy gain access to the gun? I blame the parents. A gun is an inanimate object. It will go only where it is carried. If the parents had locked the gun up or otherwise made it inaccessible to the boy, that would not have happened. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The answer is not to steal everybody's rights.

Out of curiosity, how much personal responsibility is required to get and own a gun? As in, does the law state how responsible you have to be with your firearm?

Again, nobody is out to steal your rights. But there needs to be some sort of change.

Electric_Delta wrote:

I actually lost a friend to an accidental gun discharge.

Even if we might not see eye to eye in this, I am truly sorry to hear that.

Moonpig

Go Beavers wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

People need a way to protect themselves and their freedoms. America's forefathers knew this.

On the other hand, tyrants (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-Il, etc) immediately confiscated weapons and subjected the populace to inhuman oppression and in some cases, genocide.

How can any sensible, freedom-loving human being advocate stealing guns from the populace? Because it SOUNDS nice?

People have choices. No gun owners I know are violent.

It only took the 5th response for someone to reference Hitler. Well done!

LOL, you beat me to it. I was expecting him a little earlier, in fact I was going to preempt him in the first post - live and learn I suppose