John Lennon: A Closet Republican

Byrnzie

Despite inlett13's desperate attempts to claim the opposite, based on - at the most - two 'examples', the fact remains that most artists and musicians are left-leaning politically. Those who aren't - people such as Mick Hucknall (cunt) and Johnny Ramone, are the exception.
Of course there's that other branch of so-called musicians who perform pop music for the masses, although I don't regard these manufactured types as artists as most of them have never written a lyric or piece of music in their lives. They are just puppets of the music industry whose job is to sell bland crap for maximum profit. I.e, I couldn't care less where Madonna, or Britney stand politically, or where they'll stand politically in 30 years time.

Anyway, I thought this was interesting considering the recent notice by Tom Petty for Michelle Bachmann to cease using his music on her campaign trail:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2008/sep/11/1
'While Obama has received the support of artists across the spectrum (Bob Dylan, Arcade Fire, Springsteen, Green Day and Usher, to name just a few), John McCain has struggled to find support from musicians – in particular in rap and rock. Still, the Republicans chose to blast Heart's Barracuda in tribute to Sarah Palin's highschool nickname, only to be served with a cease and desist notice by the band. After they played Van Halen's Right Now as they introduced Palin onto the stage, Van Halen's management announced, "Permission was not sought or granted nor would it have been given."


Looks like Republicans will just have to get busy competing for the services of Ted Nugent.

Jason P

I would have to think this thread and the one about wishing happy mother's day are in the front running for "most ridiculous debate of the week".

inlet13

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Happened with a actor.

True it is unlikely to swing from one end to the other, but it is certainly possible, no?

ya ... good thing it wasn't one of the smart ones ... hahaha

no one is saying it isn't possible ... like i said, it for sure happens and likely both ways ... a friend of mine who grew up conservative (she's 73 now) is very leftist now ... her friends ask her why and she says "i've seen the light" ... hahaha

the point tho is that inlet13 is saying leftist viewpoint is wrong ... not even that he disagrees with it ... but that it's wrong! ... and he says by saying many musicians grow older and go from left to right ... this based strictly on one person ...

Thanks, but please don't put words in my mouth. You are taking things out of context. I said,..

inlet13 wrote:

"I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world. However, they rarely continue to tout politics at that point. They've already screamed and yelled about their liberal point of view for years and now it would be kinda embarassing to stand up and say they changed their minds"

I said "I think" and "they realize". I could just have easily said I think a lot of famous musicians realize they were wrong about their pro-right stance later on.

I also continued to say that I believe when this occurs (one moving left to right), it's not in their best interest to disclose this info because (if they were outspoken) they would seem hypocritical if they did.

polaris_x

inlet13 wrote:

"I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world. However, they rarely continue to tout politics at that point. They've already screamed and yelled about their liberal point of view for years and now it would be kinda embarassing to stand up and say they changed their minds"

i'm sorry but this is why byrnzie said your post was smug ... you could have said musicians have a change of heart but instead you wrote that they "realize they are wrong" ... based on as we can see no proof ... only speculation ... and based from what we can gather your own personal ideology ...

and yes, you did say they don't want to come out and say it ... which i acknowledged in an earlier post saying you are saying they are in the closet ...

either way - your entire point is based purely on speculation ... and is not grounded in any fact ...

and as i've been saying to cincy ... i do believe people's political views change as the grow older but it doesn't always move in one direction ...

inlet13

polaris_x wrote:

i'm sorry but this is why byrnzie said your post was smug ... you could have said musicians have a change of heart but instead you wrote that they "realize they are wrong" ... based on as we can see no proof ... only speculation ... and based from what we can gather your own personal ideology ...

and yes, you did say they don't want to come out and say it ... which i acknowledged in an earlier post saying you are saying they are in the closet ...

either way - your entire point is based purely on speculation ... and is not grounded in any fact ...

and as i've been saying to cincy ... i do believe people's political views change as the grow older but it doesn't always move in one direction ...

First, the quote was in reference to John Lennon changing his political point of view. When a person change's their mind on a subject, they typically do so because they've come to a new realization and now believe they were wrong.

Second, I said repetitively throughout the thread, that although I believe more people turn conservative as they age, there are certainly exceptions where it works the other way around.

You're nit-picking.

Go Beavers

inlet13 wrote:

ha ha ah.... it's by sociologists. ha ha... sociologists. Sociologists really shouldn't even sit down with statistics software because of their inherent bias, lack of math skills and inability to take a master a real subject... or at the very least a subject that matters.

But, seriously, how does this sociologist from Vermont and his pal deem one "conservative" and one "liberal"? They don't say in the article. Do they by chance set up their own measurements of what's conservative and what's liberal? hmmm... what's bias mean again?

Your own article was trying to disprove the belief that I mentioned. There are plenty of articles and charts supporting what I mentioned. You supplied one saying it may not be true, using two random sociologists biased model.

Anyway, in this article, there's a chart by zogby, providing more proof of what I said...

http://www.resurgentrepublic.com/worth- ... e-with-age

You'd have to look at the actual study to decide if it's biased or not, but it would be interesting to see how they defined and measured liberal vs. conservative. There can be problems with the validity of the zogby survey because it asks a sample to reflect on their memories over time. Different things can come into play, such as the consensus definition of the term "liberal", and that during the Bush Jr. years, there was a lot of effort to make the label of liberal a negative thing. You see a lot people who may call themselves middle of the road, but actually adhere to a lot of liberal beliefs. There tends to be more disparity of how liberals label themselves when compared to conservatives.

Also, be careful when using the word "proof" when referring to a study within social science. There are many variables when studying people, and the term proof is rarely used amongst professionals within that group. Proof is a term reserved for more hard sciences. You're welcome in advance (winky).

JonnyPistachio

Byrnzie wrote:

Looks like Republicans will just have to get busy competing for the services of Ted Nugent.

AH-HA! I knew there was one more!

inlet13

Go Beavers wrote:

You'd have to look at the actual study to decide if it's biased or not, but it would be interesting to see how they defined and measured liberal vs. conservative.

Why did you post a study when you don't even know how it was conducted?

JonnyPistachio

inlet13 wrote:

First, the quote was in reference to John Lennon changing his political point of view. When a person change's their mind on a subject, they typically do so because they've come to a new realization and now believe they were wrong.

I know you said "typically".. but when I see people flip their views, I see them claim it more as an evolution, not so much as they were previously "wrong".

...one example is kind of like how I go back and forth on abortion. I cant for the life of me advocate it, but I also think that its a decision of the woman. I've been back and forth on this and I dont think I was ever wrong.. just open to change.

he still stands

it's like a thread where people are arguing about which is better; eating processed beef n' cheese covered in turds or getting kicked in the balls everyday for a year, and basing their arguments on hearsay from 30 years ago.

JonnyPistachio

he still stands wrote:

it's like a thread where people are arguing about which is better; eating processed beef n' cheese covered in turds or getting kicked in the balls everyday for a year, and basing their arguments on hearsay from 30 years ago.

haha, as much as this is a whacky thread it is interesting to think about in terms of our beloved PJ. I honestly dont think Ed has changed much.. he just detested Bush. But I am curious where he stands now politically and what his last conversation might have been like regarding Obama.

Jason P wrote:

I would have to think this thread and the one about wishing happy mother's day are in the front running for "most ridiculous debate of the week".

Go Beavers

inlet13 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

You'd have to look at the actual study to decide if it's biased or not, but it would be interesting to see how they defined and measured liberal vs. conservative.

Why did you post a study when you don't even know how it was conducted?

That's the best ya got?

Electric_Delta

inlet13 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world.

Wow! This sentence wins the 2011 first prize for smugness.

As for musicians 'growing up' and 'learning about the World' before voting Republican, can you provide any examples?

Honestly, wasn't meant to be smug. I think the same is true for teenagers. A lot of teenagers grow up left-leaning. But, eventually they see the world differently once they start working and have a family. At some point, a large number switch to the right-leaning.

Take a look at the article for an example.

Teenagers and twenty-somethings get older. They learn individual responsibility...paying bills, paying taxes, actually caring about the impositions forced upon them by liberal bureaucrats. It's easy to be a leftist when you have no responsibilites and your parents are paying for everything.

Eventually, you realize the "socialist utopia" is the ultimate oxymoron.

Intriguing article though.

Cosmo

Imagine all the people... investing in diversified portfolios from Bear/Sterns in an unregulated market that includes default swap options and the falsely inflated DOW reaching beyond 20,000 points during wartime.
You may say, I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

Byrnzie

Cosmo wrote:

Imagine all the people... investing in diversified portfolios from Bear/Sterns in an unregulated market that includes default swap options and the falsely inflated DOW reaching beyond 20,000 points during wartime.
You may say, I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.