John Lennon: A Closet Republican

Parachute

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/le ... -assistant

ARTICLE:
John Lennon was a closet Republican, who felt a little embarrassed by his former radicalism, at the time of his death - according to the tragic Beatles star's last personal assistant.

Fred Seaman worked alongside the music legend from 1979 to Lennon's death at the end of 1980 and he reveals the star was a Ronald Reagan fan who enjoyed arguing with left-wing radicals who reminded him of his former self.

In new documentary Beatles Stories, Seaman tells filmmaker Seth Swirsky Lennon wasn't the peace-loving militant fans thought he was while he was his assistant.

He says, "John, basically, made it very clear that if he were an American he would vote for Reagan because he was really sour on (Democrat) Jimmy Carter.

"He'd met Reagan back, I think, in the 70s at some sporting event... Reagan was the guy who had ordered the National Guard, I believe, to go after the young (peace) demonstrators in Berkeley, so I think that John maybe forgot about that... He did express support for Reagan, which shocked me.

"I also saw John embark in some really brutal arguments with my uncle, who's an old-time communist... He enjoyed really provoking my uncle... Maybe he was being provocative... but it was pretty obvious to me he had moved away from his earlier radicalism.

"He was a very different person back in 1979 and 80 than he'd been when he wrote Imagine. By 1979 he looked back on that guy and was embarrassed by that guy's naivete."

Imagine....

inlet13

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world. However, they rarely continue to tout politics at that point. They've already screamed and yelled about their liberal point of view for years and now it would be kinda embarassing to stand up and say they changed their minds. Example: look how quiet our friend Ed's been lately on the political issues (which I think we all, both left and right are enjoying).

Also, they know the media doesn't like those in entertainment having a right-leaning point of view. So, why would they potentially ruin their career by saying they're now Republican? They wouldn't, they stay hush hush... like most conservatives do anyway.

Anyway, I have always thought there's nothing more Punk then being anti-government. Being pro-government is not Punk at all. I'm betting John Lennon ended his life like that, a libertarian.

Blockhead

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world. However, they rarely continue to tout politics at that point. They've already screamed and yelled about their liberal point of view for years and now it would be kinda embarassing to stand up and say they changed their minds. Example: look how quiet our friend Ed's been lately on the political issues (which I think we all, both left and right are enjoying).

Also, they know the media doesn't like those in entertainment having a right-leaning point of view. So, why would they potentially ruin their career by saying they're now Republican? They wouldn't, they stay hush hush... like most conservatives do anyway.

Anyway, I have always thought there's nothing more Punk then being anti-government. Being pro-government is not Punk at all. I'm betting John Lennon ended his life like that, a libertarian.

I have wondered that about ED, since having his kids, He hasn't said much..
I wonder why...

maj4e

Ed is still busy with activism, actions over words. Also I think the backlash from the 2k3 tour and a couple events here and there since may have humbled him a little. People can be republican/right of center and still be a PJ/EV fan, why alienate them?

Newch91

Of course he changed later in his life...he became a family man, which was reflected in his songs on "Double Fantasy" and "Milk and Honey". When that album came out, people bashed the album. It wasn't until his death that all the poor reviews were withdrawn from publication.

Who knows what he would've been like in the 80s and 90s, political wise, had he lived. I think we would've seen the old John of the late 60s/early 70s in 2003 when we went to Iraq, had he lived. He would've definitely continued campaigning for world peace.

Byrnzie

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world.

Wow! This sentence wins the 2011 first prize for smugness.

As for musicians 'growing up' and 'learning about the World' before voting Republican, can you provide any examples?

inlet13

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world.

Wow! This sentence wins the 2011 first prize for smugness.

As for musicians 'growing up' and 'learning about the World' before voting Republican, can you provide any examples?

Honestly, wasn't meant to be smug. I think the same is true for teenagers. A lot of teenagers grow up left-leaning. But, eventually they see the world differently once they start working and have a family. At some point, a large number switch to the right-leaning.

Take a look at the article for an example.

bluesuedeitzrad

Ed still has stuff to say. When i saw him in Bristow, Va last year, he had a few things to say about certain lobbyists.

inlet13

Has Ed ever criticized President Obama for anything? Ever? I mean, we're fighting three wars now... more than two years ago. Wasn't war a big issue for him a couple years ago? Two whole albums and endless rants were devoted to wars. Now, nothing.

I am happy it's ended, to be honest. But, it's odd to me.

polaris_x

inlet13 wrote:

Honestly, wasn't meant to be smug. I think the same is true for teenagers. A lot of teenagers grow up left-leaning. But, eventually they see the world differently once they start working and have a family. At some point, a large number switch to the right-leaning.

Take a look at the article for an example.

this article doesn't mean a whole lot especially coming from the toronto sun ... trust me - i live in toronto ...

in any case ... yoko ono was given a peace award recently ... you can be sure lennon if alive today would still be anti-war and a peace activist ...

i think your assertion that artists grow up and move right is absurd and based on no real substantive facts ... look at bruce springsteen, neil young, cat stevens ... all activists/musicians early on ... they haven't moved right at all ... they may become less militant with age and family but rarely do they move in the spectrum to the opposite end ...

LikeAnOcean

inlet13 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world.

Wow! This sentence wins the 2011 first prize for smugness.

As for musicians 'growing up' and 'learning about the World' before voting Republican, can you provide any examples?

Honestly, wasn't meant to be smug. I think the same is true for teenagers. A lot of teenagers grow up left-leaning. But, eventually they see the world differently once they start working and have a family. At some point, a large number switch to the right-leaning.

Take a look at the article for an example.

I was a teenage conservative. Even at 21 I was stealing Gore signs and supporting Bush.. Now I'm a 32 year old liberal. Go figure...

It's all how you want to look at life. There is no "right" answer, just what your heart dictates and how you want to view the world.

As a conservative I saw things as black or white. As a Liberal I don't. I always question and keep an open mind.

inlet13

Gob wrote:

I was a teenage conservative. Now I'm a 32 year year old liberal. Go figure...

It's all how you want to look at life. There is no "right" answer, just what your heart dictates and how you want to view the world.

I'm sure you're not alone. I'm trying to say that "in general", it happens more the other way. Example - some tend to not care about taxes taken out of their pay check when they are in high-school or college. Even when they are 25, they may not really notice. But, once they get a bit older, they start to realize it more... and if they have a family, every cent matters... which may make them more inclined to say that they would like less government and more of their own money.

I agree with the latter part completely. But, I would only add use of your brain also matters.

Byrnzie

inlet13 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world.

Wow! This sentence wins the 2011 first prize for smugness.

As for musicians 'growing up' and 'learning about the World' before voting Republican, can you provide any examples?

Honestly, wasn't meant to be smug. I think the same is true for teenagers. A lot of teenagers grow up left-leaning. But, eventually they see the world differently once they start working and have a family. At some point, a large number switch to the right-leaning.

Take a look at the article for an example.

It's not an example, because it's not necessarily true. Just one persons opinion.

You're just trying to pretend that being Conservative and voting Republican is a sign of maturity, whereas being left-leaning politically is a sign of immaturity. Though of course this is complete horseshit.

LikeAnOcean

inlet13 wrote:

Gob wrote:

I was a teenage conservative. Now I'm a 32 year year old liberal. Go figure...

It's all how you want to look at life. There is no "right" answer, just what your heart dictates and how you want to view the world.

I'm sure you're not alone. I'm trying to say that "in general", it happens more the other way. Example - some tend to not care about taxes taken out of their pay check when they are in high-school or college. Even when they are 25, they may not really notice. But, once they get a bit older, they start to realize it more... and if they have a family, every cent matters... which may make them more inclined to say that they would like less government and more of their own money.

I agree with the latter part completely. But, I would only add use of your brain also matters.

But that's why the rich get taxed more. Capitalism is great and all, but needs to be regulated.. My opinion.

maj4e

I think that some people it's a natural shift from left to right as they age. I tend to think it's a bit more shallow than that. I think it's because they grow up and accumulate property and wealth and want to horde it and get more and more.

Personally I'm 36 and I get farther left all the time and I do have kids.

inlet13

maj4e wrote:

I think that some people it's a natural shift from left to right as they age. I tend to think it's a bit more shallow than that. I think it's because they grow up and accumulate property and wealth and want to horde it and get more and more.

Personally I'm 36 and I get farther left all the time and I do have kids.

For whatever reason it occurs, I also believe it occurs. And, I never said, there weren't exceptions... particularly on a liberal-leaning rock band's message board.

Byrnzie

Parachute wrote:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant

"John, basically, made it very clear that if he were an American he would vote for Reagan because he was really sour on (Democrat) Jimmy Carter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lenno ... l_activism
'Following the impact of "Give Peace a Chance" and "Happy Xmas (War is Over)", both strongly associated with the anti–Vietnam War movement, the Nixon administration, hearing rumours of Lennon's involvement in a concert to be held in San Diego at the same time as the Republican National Convention,[201] tried to have him deported. Nixon believed that Lennon's anti-war activities could cost him his re-election;[202] Republican Senator Strom Thurmond suggested in a February 1972 memo that "deportation would be a strategic counter-measure" against Lennon.[203] The next month the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) began deportation proceedings, arguing that his 1968 misdemeanor conviction for cannabis possession in London had made him ineligible for admission to the United States. Lennon spent the next three and a half years in and out of deportation hearings until on 8 October 1975, when a court of appeals barred the deportation attempt, stating " ... the courts will not condone selective deportation based upon secret political grounds."[204][103] While the legal battle continued, Lennon attended rallies and made television appearances. Lennon and Ono co-hosted the Mike Douglas Show for a week in February 1972, introducing guests such as Jerry Rubin and Bobby Seale to mid-America.[205] In 1972, Bob Dylan wrote a letter to the INS defending Lennon, stating:

John and Yoko add a great voice and drive to the country’s so-called art institution. They inspire and transcend and stimulate and by doing so, only help others to see pure light and in doing that, put an end to this dull taste of petty commercialism which is being passed off as Artist Art by the overpowering mass media. Hurray for John and Yoko. Let them stay and live here and breathe. The country’s got plenty of room and space. Let John and Yoko stay![206][207]

On 23 March 1973, Lennon was ordered to leave the US within 60 days.[208] Ono, meanwhile, was granted permanent residence. In response, Lennon and Ono held a press conference on 1 April 1973 at the New York City Bar Association, where they announced the formation of the state of Nutopia; a place with "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people".[209] Waving the white flag of Nutopia (two handkerchiefs), they asked for political asylum in the US. The press conference was filmed, and would later appear in the 2006 documentary The U.S. vs. John Lennon.[210] Lennon's Mind Games (1973) included the track "Nutopian International Anthem", which comprised three seconds of silence.[211] Soon after the press conference, Nixon's involvement in a political scandal came to light, and in June the Watergate hearings began in Washington, DC. They led to the president's resignation 14 months later. Nixon's successor, Gerald Ford, showed little interest in continuing the battle against Lennon, and the deportation order was overturned in 1975. The following year, his US immigration status finally resolved, Lennon received his "green card" certifying his permanent residency, and when Jimmy Carter was inaugurated as president in January 1977, Lennon and Ono attended the Inaugural Ball.'

Byrnzie

“Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it.”

"The thing the sixties did was to show us the possibilities and the responsibility that we all had. It wasn't the answer. It just gave us a glimpse of the possibility."
Interview for KFRC RKO Radio (8 December 1980)

Jeanwah

Byrnzie wrote:

Parachute wrote:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant

"John, basically, made it very clear that if he were an American he would vote for Reagan because he was really sour on (Democrat) Jimmy Carter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lenno ... l_activism
'Following the impact of "Give Peace a Chance" and "Happy Xmas (War is Over)", both strongly associated with the anti–Vietnam War movement, the Nixon administration, hearing rumours of Lennon's involvement in a concert to be held in San Diego at the same time as the Republican National Convention,[201] tried to have him deported. Nixon believed that Lennon's anti-war activities could cost him his re-election;[202] Republican Senator Strom Thurmond suggested in a February 1972 memo that "deportation would be a strategic counter-measure" against Lennon.[203] The next month the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) began deportation proceedings, arguing that his 1968 misdemeanor conviction for cannabis possession in London had made him ineligible for admission to the United States. Lennon spent the next three and a half years in and out of deportation hearings until on 8 October 1975, when a court of appeals barred the deportation attempt, stating " ... the courts will not condone selective deportation based upon secret political grounds."[204][103] While the legal battle continued, Lennon attended rallies and made television appearances. Lennon and Ono co-hosted the Mike Douglas Show for a week in February 1972, introducing guests such as Jerry Rubin and Bobby Seale to mid-America.[205] In 1972, Bob Dylan wrote a letter to the INS defending Lennon, stating:

John and Yoko add a great voice and drive to the country’s so-called art institution. They inspire and transcend and stimulate and by doing so, only help others to see pure light and in doing that, put an end to this dull taste of petty commercialism which is being passed off as Artist Art by the overpowering mass media. Hurray for John and Yoko. Let them stay and live here and breathe. The country’s got plenty of room and space. Let John and Yoko stay![206][207]

On 23 March 1973, Lennon was ordered to leave the US within 60 days.[208] Ono, meanwhile, was granted permanent residence. In response, Lennon and Ono held a press conference on 1 April 1973 at the New York City Bar Association, where they announced the formation of the state of Nutopia; a place with "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people".[209] Waving the white flag of Nutopia (two handkerchiefs), they asked for political asylum in the US. The press conference was filmed, and would later appear in the 2006 documentary The U.S. vs. John Lennon.[210] Lennon's Mind Games (1973) included the track "Nutopian International Anthem", which comprised three seconds of silence.[211] Soon after the press conference, Nixon's involvement in a political scandal came to light, and in June the Watergate hearings began in Washington, DC. They led to the president's resignation 14 months later. Nixon's successor, Gerald Ford, showed little interest in continuing the battle against Lennon, and the deportation order was overturned in 1975. The following year, his US immigration status finally resolved, Lennon received his "green card" certifying his permanent residency, and when Jimmy Carter was inaugurated as president in January 1977, Lennon and Ono attended the Inaugural Ball.'

So who's right, the Toronto Sun or Wiki? From what the world's known about Lennon, especially his biggest fans, the last thing ever realistically accurate about the man would be that he was a Republican, closet or not. No one has been outspokenly and truly been about world peace and anti-possessions than that man.

If anything, he retreated from activism because the the FBI was after him, causing him to slow down and become more private. Becoming a family man changes anyone, but labeling "family man" with "becoming more conservative or even a Republican" is a noted mis-label and blanket generalization. No one knows why EV stopped ranting, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's become a closet Republican neither.

Newch91

Jeanwah wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Parachute wrote:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant

"John, basically, made it very clear that if he were an American he would vote for Reagan because he was really sour on (Democrat) Jimmy Carter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lenno ... l_activism
'Following the impact of "Give Peace a Chance" and "Happy Xmas (War is Over)", both strongly associated with the anti–Vietnam War movement, the Nixon administration, hearing rumours of Lennon's involvement in a concert to be held in San Diego at the same time as the Republican National Convention,[201] tried to have him deported. Nixon believed that Lennon's anti-war activities could cost him his re-election;[202] Republican Senator Strom Thurmond suggested in a February 1972 memo that "deportation would be a strategic counter-measure" against Lennon.[203] The next month the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) began deportation proceedings, arguing that his 1968 misdemeanor conviction for cannabis possession in London had made him ineligible for admission to the United States. Lennon spent the next three and a half years in and out of deportation hearings until on 8 October 1975, when a court of appeals barred the deportation attempt, stating " ... the courts will not condone selective deportation based upon secret political grounds."[204][103] While the legal battle continued, Lennon attended rallies and made television appearances. Lennon and Ono co-hosted the Mike Douglas Show for a week in February 1972, introducing guests such as Jerry Rubin and Bobby Seale to mid-America.[205] In 1972, Bob Dylan wrote a letter to the INS defending Lennon, stating:

John and Yoko add a great voice and drive to the country’s so-called art institution. They inspire and transcend and stimulate and by doing so, only help others to see pure light and in doing that, put an end to this dull taste of petty commercialism which is being passed off as Artist Art by the overpowering mass media. Hurray for John and Yoko. Let them stay and live here and breathe. The country’s got plenty of room and space. Let John and Yoko stay![206][207]

On 23 March 1973, Lennon was ordered to leave the US within 60 days.[208] Ono, meanwhile, was granted permanent residence. In response, Lennon and Ono held a press conference on 1 April 1973 at the New York City Bar Association, where they announced the formation of the state of Nutopia; a place with "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people".[209] Waving the white flag of Nutopia (two handkerchiefs), they asked for political asylum in the US. The press conference was filmed, and would later appear in the 2006 documentary The U.S. vs. John Lennon.[210] Lennon's Mind Games (1973) included the track "Nutopian International Anthem", which comprised three seconds of silence.[211] Soon after the press conference, Nixon's involvement in a political scandal came to light, and in June the Watergate hearings began in Washington, DC. They led to the president's resignation 14 months later. Nixon's successor, Gerald Ford, showed little interest in continuing the battle against Lennon, and the deportation order was overturned in 1975. The following year, his US immigration status finally resolved, Lennon received his "green card" certifying his permanent residency, and when Jimmy Carter was inaugurated as president in January 1977, Lennon and Ono attended the Inaugural Ball.'

So who's right, the Toronto Sun or Wiki? From what the world's known about Lennon, especially his biggest fans, the last thing ever realistically accurate about the man would be that he was a Republican, closet or not. No one has been outspokenly and truly been about world peace and anti-possessions than that man.

If anything, he retreated from activism because the the FBI was after him, causing him to slow down and become more private. Becoming a family man changes anyone, but labeling "family man" with "becoming more conservative or even a Republican" is a noted mis-label and blanket generalization. No one knows why EV stopped ranting, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's become a closet Republican neither.

Wikipedia. Have you read the book about him that came out a few years? "John Lennon: The Life". The author talks about all about his immigration battle. During all of that, like you said, the FBI was after him and they would tap his phone lines and he knew it, too. He said he was really scared at that time.

Jason P

The fact that Lennon quit the Beatles in favor of Yoko is proof enough that he was not of sound mind in his final days.

Parachute

inlet13 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Not surprised in the least. I think a lot of famous musicians realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world.

Wow! This sentence wins the 2011 first prize for smugness.

As for musicians 'growing up' and 'learning about the World' before voting Republican, can you provide any examples?

Honestly, wasn't meant to be smug. I think the same is true for teenagers. A lot of teenagers grow up left-leaning. But, eventually they see the world differently once they start working and have a family. At some point, a large number switch to the right-leaning.

Take a look at the article for an example.

They say when you're young, if you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart.

But when you're older, if you're not a Republican, you don't have a brain.

Indifference

Parachute wrote:

They say when you're young, if you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart.

But when you're older, if you're not a Republican, you don't have a brain.

I always thought it was this:
If your old and a Democrat you don't have a brain, if your young and Conservative you don't have a heart.

Go Beavers

inlet13 wrote:

maj4e wrote:

I think that some people it's a natural shift from left to right as they age. I tend to think it's a bit more shallow than that. I think it's because they grow up and accumulate property and wealth and want to horde it and get more and more.

Personally I'm 36 and I get farther left all the time and I do have kids.

For whatever reason it occurs, I also believe it occurs. And, I never said, there weren't exceptions... particularly on a liberal-leaning rock band's message board.

Here's an interesting article supporting the notion that people get more liberal as they age:

http://www.livescience.com/2360-busting-myth-people-turn-liberal-age.html

Parachute

Indifference wrote:

Parachute wrote:

They say when you're young, if you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart.

But when you're older, if you're not a Republican, you don't have a brain.

I always thought it was this:
If your old and a Democrat you don't have a brain, if your young and Conservative you don't have a heart.

maybe that's it....

keeponrockin

Parachute wrote:

They say when you're young, if you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart.

But when you're older, if you're not a Republican, you don't have a brain.

That's a Churchill quote, and its Liberal/Conservative, not tied to any party.

I will go on record as saying anyone who votes for Sarah Palin has no brain.

lukin2006

Jason P wrote:

The fact that Lennon quit the Beatles in favor of Yoko is proof enough that he was not of sound mind in his final days.

Byrnzie

Parachute wrote:

They say when you're young, if you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart.

But when you're older, if you're not a Republican, you don't have a brain.

Sure, because anyone who votes for dangerous idiots like Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and now Sarah Palin, or Michelle Bachmann, must be intelligent, right?

inlet13

Go Beavers wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

maj4e wrote:

I think that some people it's a natural shift from left to right as they age. I tend to think it's a bit more shallow than that. I think it's because they grow up and accumulate property and wealth and want to horde it and get more and more.

Personally I'm 36 and I get farther left all the time and I do have kids.

For whatever reason it occurs, I also believe it occurs. And, I never said, there weren't exceptions... particularly on a liberal-leaning rock band's message board.

Here's an interesting article supporting the notion that people get more liberal as they age:

http://www.livescience.com/2360-busting-myth-people-turn-liberal-age.html

ha ha ah.... it's by sociologists. ha ha... sociologists. Sociologists really shouldn't even sit down with statistics software because of their inherent bias, lack of math skills and inability to take a master a real subject... or at the very least a subject that matters.

But, seriously, how does this sociologist from Vermont and his pal deem one "conservative" and one "liberal"? They don't say in the article. Do they by chance set up their own measurements of what's conservative and what's liberal? hmmm... what's bias mean again?

Your own article was trying to disprove the belief that I mentioned. There are plenty of articles and charts supporting what I mentioned. You supplied one saying it may not be true, using two random sociologists biased model.

Anyway, in this article, there's a chart by zogby, providing more proof of what I said...

http://www.resurgentrepublic.com/worth- ... e-with-age

Byrnzie

inlet13 wrote:

Take a look at the article for an example.

I've already looked at the article, which is just one persons opinion, and which is disputed by other people and by other factors.

So can you provide any other examples? Or do you base your 'mature' and 'grown-up' outlook on the world on the opinions of just one person, and/or just one piece of flimsy evidence - as long as it promotes your conservative agenda?

inlet13

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Take a look at the article for an example.

I've already looked at the article, which is just one persons opinion, and which is disputed by other people and by other factors.

So can you provide any other examples? Or do you base your 'mature' and 'grown-up' outlook on the world on the opinions of just one person, and/or just one piece of flimsy evidence - as long as it promotes your conservative agenda?

I don't even know what you're talking about. Examples of what? Examples of people tuning more conservative as they age? Take a look at the chart in the article I just posted. I'll post it again:

http://www.resurgentrepublic.com/worth- ... e-with-age

I'd define mature and grown-up as people who are older for these purposes, I guess.