Give A Man A Fish...

cincybearcat

Cosmo wrote:

Back to the basis of this thread...
'Give A Man A Fish, He Eats for A Day.
Teach A Man to Fish, He Eats For A Lifetime.'
...
From the discussion, it should be...
'Give A Man A Fish, He Eats for A Day.
Make The Man Pay For The Education and Trainning He Cannot Afford For A Degree In Fishing Because It's Not My Goddamn Job To Teach The Stupid Motherfucker... and He Eats For A Lifetime.'
...
We're gonna need a bigger bumper.

Actually, I think the current quote should be...

Liberals - Give a Man someone else's fish, but do your damnedest to make it difficult for that other person to obtain the fish in the first place. And if he is lucky enough to earn a fish, call him hateful names and try to make him feel bad about catching said fish as you take it away.
Conservative - Give a Man your God and he can pray to learn to fish and will be rewarded with plentiful bounty if he is deemed worthy but the Almighty Father. If he is unworthy, he must find God and make himself worthy. Continue to call him hateful/hurtful names until he does indeed find your God.

JonnyPistachio

markin ball wrote:

That being said I would invite you to examine your perspective, however. No man is an island. We all live in a society together and everything is interwoven. Any money that you earn would not have been possible without taxpayer investments in things like roads, infrastructure, technology and unfortunately, wars. Some of these things you may not agree with but you have almost certainly benefited from them.

Perfectly said markin ball.

Blockhead wrote:

THe money I make is taken from my kids and given to someone elses kids who don't work/pay taxes. That is literally taking food from my kids mouths.
You view that as acceptable?

By the way, you can blow this up in your mind all day long, but if you want an few analogies it would be like if your kid was eating a pile of 100 peas, and someone took about 5 peas.

Also, I have been paying taxes for other kids, like yours, to go to school for decades, and I no longer have a child.. Your kids learn at school to better their future, and that experience is taken directly from MY table and MY meals! You're welcome, I'm happy to oblige..

VINNY GOOMBA

he still stands wrote:

this is spot on; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-X8HWAB1M

@ 1:34 specifically, but just watch the whole thing...

HA HA! YES.

whygohome

markin ball wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my logic is quite sound thank you.

do you realize you sound like a whiney rich kid who can't afford his tennis lessons when you complain about not being able to afford the things you "need" for your family? how about this for an idea. DROP SOME NEEDS!

move to a more affordable area, use a public school, don't shop at trader joes, etc etc. we all pay taxes and we all feel the pain. sure i would like to wear the tommy bahama shirt or whatever, but i just choose to buy what i can afford. it is really easy. uncle sam is going to get his money one way or another.

your party just happens to not have enough support for your positions. and they never will.

i don't view it as stripping your kids of anything. if you are short of money, perhaps you can not afford that nice private education?? there is nothing wrong with that. i am the product of public institutions and i turned out ok and i make a comfortable living.

How could I possibly sound like a whinery rich KID, when I have worked and earned everything that I own/buy? Its clear you have no idea how much kids cost... I like how you are talking down on me telling me what I should and should not buy, telling me to be responsible for my money, yet you give poor people a free pass on what they do with Tax payers money. Why don't you help me out? You call me selfish yet you have the same opinions I do, you reverted it to me. I love the hypocrisy...
How is it not stripping my kids. THe money I make is taken from my kids and given to someone elses kids who don't work/pay taxes. That is literally taking food from my kids mouths.
You view that as acceptable?

You are right. It isn't fair when your tax dollars go to those that are just plain lazy bums. I really don't think Go Beavers or Gimmie really wants that to happen. Unfortunately, it does, as there will be abusers of any system and no system will run 100% efficiently. All we can do is work to minimize those abuses/inefficiencies and for each and every one of us to live as responsibly as we can.

That being said I would invite you to examine your perspective, however. No man is an island. We all live in a society together and everything is interwoven. Any money that you earn would not have been possible without taxpayer investments in things like roads, infrastructure, technology and unfortunately, wars. Some of these things you may not agree with but you have almost certainly benefited from them.

Everyone has made a valid point or two. The entitlement programs need some serious reform AND regulation. I see it every day: the programs are taken advantage of by people who want to live off the teat of the gov't. It is sad, but true. That aside, I still support these programs and have no problem having my tax dollars go towards them; but, in the end, I don't want people like those that live behind me and sit in their backyard drinking and listening to horrible music (i.e. not Pearl Jam) every day...during the day, night, whatever. They should be put in jail. It happens: the Left thinks it is only a small percentage of those that collect entitlement benefits, and the Right thinks it is more than a small majority. Either way, the system needs to be fixed. the Dems had the White House and Congress for 2 years and failed to address this issue, though it is a difficult one to address during a severe recession. The Repubs had the White House and Congress for 6 years (2001-2007) and did nothing about the issue as well. it all comes down to votes, and that is the reason for the stalemate and the reluctance to do anything about it.
Florida has the right idea: drug tests. It's a start.

whygohome

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

he still stands wrote:

this is spot on; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-X8HWAB1M

@ 1:34 specifically, but just watch the whole thing...

HA HA! YES.

Hilarious

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Perfectly said markin ball.

Blockhead wrote:

THe money I make is taken from my kids and given to someone elses kids who don't work/pay taxes. That is literally taking food from my kids mouths.
You view that as acceptable?

By the way, you can blow this up in your mind all day long, but if you want an few analogies it would be like if your kid was eating a pile of 100 peas, and someone took about 5 peas.

Also, I have been paying taxes for other kids, like yours, to go to school for decades, and I no longer have a child.. Your kids learn at school to better their future, and that experience is taken directly from MY table and MY meals! You're welcome, I'm happy to oblige..

Sorry, but my kids are not enrolled in public schools... So you do not pay for their education.
and to your analogy - I get $1,200 a month taken out of my paychecks, thats more than 5 peas...
Nice try though...

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

No thanks. I don't need stats to tell me that I don't know what poor people are thinking about education. I dont claim to know everything about poor people through a narrow single experience. And btw, there are plenty of poor people outside of inner city areas, and a substantial amount of more poor people outside of the school where YOUR wife teaches. But if we're using personal experience as the standard basis for ALL poor people, I know a guy who grew up with nothing and is a now doctor.. he valued education I suppose...But its OK, we all know you base your opinion on that narrow example of all the poor people could care less about school, and would rather go home and play 17 playstaions on their 97 inch 3D televisions and snort coke and drink scotch before they go pick up their food stamps... just like it is in the area where your wife teaches.

Why don't you try looking at graduation rate, oh better yet, look at attendance... You may actually learn something...

JonnyPistachio

Blockhead wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Perfectly said markin ball.

Blockhead wrote:

THe money I make is taken from my kids and given to someone elses kids who don't work/pay taxes. That is literally taking food from my kids mouths.
You view that as acceptable?

By the way, you can blow this up in your mind all day long, but if you want an few analogies it would be like if your kid was eating a pile of 100 peas, and someone took about 5 peas.

Also, I have been paying taxes for other kids, like yours, to go to school for decades, and I no longer have a child.. Your kids learn at school to better their future, and that experience is taken directly from MY table and MY meals! You're welcome, I'm happy to oblige..

Sorry, but my kids are not enrolled in public schools... So you do not pay for their education.
and to your analogy - I get $1,200 a month taken out of my paychecks, thats more than 5 peas...
Nice try though...

Oh, so that whole story earlier was just a theoretical 'what if'??
that 1,200 a month DOES NOT go to other peoples kids, nice try though. I assume you have stop lights in your town, maybe some street lights and a fire station?? Or does ALL $1,200 really go to those poor kids who don't care about education?

whygohome

Cosmo wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Are you saying there are no conservative teachers?
I love generalizations. Everyday workers train other workers...I worked as a journeyman plumber...I was trained by and worked with the same plumbers...
I am going to go with a huge generalization about liberals here...seems to fit the mold of telling people how they feel...Liberals want everyone to go to school for free...but if you go to school, work hard and become successful you are an evil pig who should be stripped of all your wealth for the betterment of mankind...see how dumb generalizations are...

...
Come on Mike... i know you are smarter than that. You are a smart guy that does not take every word literally. The generalization lies in that dumb bumpersticker. If the man you teach to fish is going to fish next to you... would you teach him? Generally speaking... I believe that most people would say, 'No'. But, would be willing to teach him how to fish... as long as the motherfucker casts his line on the other side of the lake.

I agree. The answer would surely be NO in this cutthroat, warped American version of capitalism that is the new religion in this country. Me, me, me, money, money, money.

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

By the way, you can blow this up in your mind all day long, but if you want an few analogies it would be like if your kid was eating a pile of 100 peas, and someone took about 5 peas.

Also, I have been paying taxes for other kids, like yours, to go to school for decades, and I no longer have a child.. Your kids learn at school to better their future, and that experience is taken directly from MY table and MY meals! You're welcome, I'm happy to oblige..

Sorry, but my kids are not enrolled in public schools... So you do not pay for their education.
and to your analogy - I get $1,200 a month taken out of my paychecks, thats more than 5 peas...
Nice try though...[/quote]

Oh, so that whole story earlier was just a theoretical 'what if'??
that 1,200 a month DOES NOT go to other peoples kids, nice try though. I assume you have stop lights in your town, maybe some street lights and a fire station?? Or does ALL $1,200 really go to those poor kids who don't care about education?[/quote]
There is a difference between private school day care/pre school/kindregarten price and elementary school price. No, it does not go to all those kids, but I am one person, with one job...

inmytree

Parachute wrote:

I heard a saying the other day:

"Give a man a fish, he can feed himself for a day. Teach a man to fish, he can feed himself for life."

Then I saw this bumper sticker:

"Liberalism: Give a man a fish. Conservatism: Teach a man to fish."


It seems that, while simplified, the metaphor is fairly accurate...

Just wondering what others think of it.... cheers.

I think that bumper sticker is stupid...

that's what I think of it...

he still stands

whygohome wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

he still stands wrote:

this is spot on; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-X8HWAB1M

@ 1:34 specifically, but just watch the whole thing...

HA HA! YES.

Hilarious

everyone watch this!

inmytree

Blockhead wrote:

There is a difference between private school day care/pre school/kindregarten price and elementary school price. No, it does not go to all those kids, but I am one person, with one job...

welcome to society...thanks for participating...

Parachute

inmytree wrote:

Parachute wrote:

I heard a saying the other day:

"Give a man a fish, he can feed himself for a day. Teach a man to fish, he can feed himself for life."

Then I saw this bumper sticker:

"Liberalism: Give a man a fish. Conservatism: Teach a man to fish."


It seems that, while simplified, the metaphor is fairly accurate...

Just wondering what others think of it.... cheers.

I think that bumper sticker is stupid...

that's what I think of it...

Ok, so you're not the thinking man.... But at least you are on topic.....

whygohome

inmytree wrote:

Parachute wrote:

I heard a saying the other day:

"Give a man a fish, he can feed himself for a day. Teach a man to fish, he can feed himself for life."

Then I saw this bumper sticker:

"Liberalism: Give a man a fish. Conservatism: Teach a man to fish."


It seems that, while simplified, the metaphor is fairly accurate...

Just wondering what others think of it.... cheers.

I think that bumper sticker is stupid...

that's what I think of it...

Yup. It's amazing how people can follow a broad generalization as long as it conforms to their own beliefs. Everyone is a rags to riches story, let's not forget that.

inmytree

Parachute wrote:

inmytree wrote:

Parachute wrote:

I heard a saying the other day:

"Give a man a fish, he can feed himself for a day. Teach a man to fish, he can feed himself for life."

Then I saw this bumper sticker:

"Liberalism: Give a man a fish. Conservatism: Teach a man to fish."


It seems that, while simplified, the metaphor is fairly accurate...

Just wondering what others think of it.... cheers.

I think that bumper sticker is stupid...

that's what I think of it...

Ok, so you're not the thinking man.... But at least you are on topic.....

¿Qué....

anyhoo, don't get your feeling hurt...you should feel proud that you tossed out some bait and some took it...

you had no real intention of a honest discussion...you know that, and so do I... :wave:

Cosmo

cincybearcat wrote:

Actually, I think the current quote should be...
Liberals - Give a Man someone else's fish, but do your damnedest to make it difficult for that other person to obtain the fish in the first place. And if he is lucky enough to earn a fish, call him hateful names and try to make him feel bad about catching said fish as you take it away.
Conservative - Give a Man your God and he can pray to learn to fish and will be rewarded with plentiful bounty if he is deemed worthy but the Almighty Father. If he is unworthy, he must find God and make himself worthy. Continue to call him hateful/hurtful names until he does indeed find your God.

...
Why or how is his a Liberal vs. Conservative thing? Does this mean Conservatives aren't charitable? The Liberals cannot teach?
It is more about the character traits the the giver/teacher and the receiver have in a social environment. If you ask me... both liberals and conservatives are charitable and both can teach and both can fall on the shit end of the stick... while at the same time, both are too fucking blinded by their political labels or are too fucking stupid to see any value in the other.
Anyone want to label me? Here you go:
Yes... i believe the strong should help the weak. I am willing to offer a hand up to the downtrodden. I don't care how they got into the gutter, i just think they sholed be offered the opportunity to get up out of it... I am wiling to contribute.
BUT... I will not be his sole support. I will not be his crutch. I can offer him help to stand up and fend for himself, but unless i can declare him as a dependent on my 1040... he has to invest in himself, too.
If he find himself back in the gutter... well, maybe that is where he wants to be. But, I believe that he deserved the opportunity.
Okay, y'all... pin your bullshit labels on me to make me fit in your bullshit perspective.

Go Beavers

Cosmo wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Actually, I think the current quote should be...
Liberals - Give a Man someone else's fish, but do your damnedest to make it difficult for that other person to obtain the fish in the first place. And if he is lucky enough to earn a fish, call him hateful names and try to make him feel bad about catching said fish as you take it away.
Conservative - Give a Man your God and he can pray to learn to fish and will be rewarded with plentiful bounty if he is deemed worthy but the Almighty Father. If he is unworthy, he must find God and make himself worthy. Continue to call him hateful/hurtful names until he does indeed find your God.

...
Why or how is his a Liberal vs. Conservative thing? Does this mean Conservatives aren't charitable? The Liberals cannot teach?
It is more about the character traits the the giver/teacher and the receiver have in a social environment. If you ask me... both liberals and conservatives are charitable and both can teach and both can fall on the shit end of the stick... while at the same time, both are too fucking blinded by their political labels or are too fucking stupid to see any value in the other.
Anyone want to label me? Here you go:
Yes... i believe the strong should help the weak. I am willing to offer a hand up to the downtrodden. I don't care how they got into the gutter, i just think they sholed be offered the opportunity to get up out of it... I am wiling to contribute.
BUT... I will not be his sole support. I will not be his crutch. I can offer him help to stand up and fend for himself, but unless i can declare him as a dependent on my 1040... he has to invest in himself, too.
If he find himself back in the gutter... well, maybe that is where he wants to be. But, I believe that he deserved the opportunity.
Okay, y'all... pin your bullshit labels on me to make me fit in your bullshit perspective.

You're a schmoe-hawk.

aerial

Blockhead wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my logic is quite sound thank you.

do you realize you sound like a whiney rich kid who can't afford his tennis lessons when you complain about not being able to afford the things you "need" for your family? how about this for an idea. DROP SOME NEEDS!

move to a more affordable area, use a public school, don't shop at trader joes, etc etc. we all pay taxes and we all feel the pain. sure i would like to wear the tommy bahama shirt or whatever, but i just choose to buy what i can afford. it is really easy. uncle sam is going to get his money one way or another.

your party just happens to not have enough support for your positions. and they never will.

i don't view it as stripping your kids of anything. if you are short of money, perhaps you can not afford that nice private education?? there is nothing wrong with that. i am the product of public institutions and i turned out ok and i make a comfortable living.

How could I possibly sound like a whinery rich KID, when I have worked and earned everything that I own/buy? Its clear you have no idea how much kids cost... I like how you are talking down on me telling me what I should and should not buy, telling me to be responsible for my money, yet you give poor people a free pass on what they do with Tax payers money. Why don't you help me out? You call me selfish yet you have the same opinions I do, you reverted it to me. I love the hypocrisy...
How is it not stripping my kids. THe money I make is taken from my kids and given to someone elses kids who don't work/pay taxes. That is literally taking food from my kids mouths.
You view that as acceptable?

Blockhead….most of the people on here that want us to give up our hard earned money do not have children. Yet they act as though they are experts on the subject. They do not realize once you have children and if you are a good parent your whole life changes. Here you are a man working HARD for what you earn and they want to call you selfish. Obviously, they do not care about your children. They do not understand that parents are ok with working those long ours as long the children are cared for. Good parents are selfless and that is how you sound to me. They do not understand Parents give everything they have for there children.
This is a great idea! Maybe the government should Tax people that do not have children at a substantial higher rate. I mean they have the extra money that we parents do not have.

inmytree

aerial wrote:

Blockhead….most of the people on here that want us to give up our hard earned money do not have children. Yet they act as though they are experts on the subject. They do not realize once you have children and if you are a good parent your whole life changes. Here you are a man working HARD for what you earn and they want to call you selfish. Obviously, they do not care about your children. They do not understand that parents are ok with working those long ours as long the children are cared for. Good parents are selfless and that is how you sound to me. They do not understand Parents give everything they have for there children.
This is a great idea! Maybe the government should Tax people that do not have children at a substantial higher rate. I mean they have the extra money that we parents do not have.