Just caught my girlfriends 14 yr old son smoking...

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Also, as far as the question of being around someone you love or Eddie Vedder smoking, sure thats a good question. I've seen Ed smoke twice in the 14 shows i've attended. I didnt smell it. I also saw on a DVD how he put out a cigarette and carried the butt all the way to a trash can. I believe he is a respectful person and would take it outside if he could or was asked to do so, with no problem whatsoever. I also bet that he doesnt smoke in the same room as his kids. He's too smart for that.

My father smokes. I leave the room if I smell it on his clothes. Makes me sick. My fatehr was also respectful enough to smoke outside the entire time I was growing up. He was concerened for my families health. Why does not our fellow man/woman have concern for the health of all people around them? If I were a smoker, I would ALWAYS take it outside and away from people because I am courteous.

Yes Jonny, it is all about respect both ways no question, this was my point posts back.

This why smokers should have their smoking areas, perhaps an entire establishment, if the owner so chooses.

Nonsmokers their own establishments.

And I'll boogie down in both

Restricted areas the compromise.... respect for all the answer.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

[
They can, if worried about second hand smoke, work elsewhere. Which is what they would choose anyways and the employees in said bar would most likely be smokers and enjoy where they worked.

It is my opinion there should be places for smokers to smoke and it should be up to the individual business owner, bar owners, whether to allow smoking for his clientele either in restricted or non restricted situation.

.

I agree.

pandora

Jason P wrote:

I just came back from Wisconsin and was SHOCKED to learn that you can no longer smoke in bars! This is a state where you can buy a 5 lb packs of beef sticks at most gas stations for under $30 and fish fry's are a stones throw from wherever you are on a Friday night. In fact, most people gain 5 extra pounds by just crossing the state line.

On the smoking topic...
When we go home to visit family, the hotel we stay at in Brookfield has an awesome live music bar.
It has the sunken type bar and those comfy, sit forever, barrel chairs ...hmmmmm.

We were enjoying an awesome band, who played PJ by the way and taking requests... heaven!
of course many smokers were about.

JB lights up a small black and mild,
this very out of character as he does not smoke in public nor indoors .
It was probably those comfy chairs feels like home and maybe the '7 Deadly Zins' wine,
bottle #2

Anyways he was told to put it out. No cigar smoking... just cigarette smoking.

Go figure. :?

EdsonNascimento

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

[
They can, if worried about second hand smoke, work elsewhere. Which is what they would choose anyways and the employees in said bar would most likely be smokers and enjoy where they worked.

It is my opinion there should be places for smokers to smoke and it should be up to the individual business owner, bar owners, whether to allow smoking for his clientele either in restricted or non restricted situation.

.

I agree.

Me too! And health insurers should be able to charge said smokers the appropriate Actuarial rate to take care of their health care services in the future! It's only RESPECTFUL to folks that choose not to smoke that they only pay their fair share and not subsidize other folks' habits.

Any takers?


(Do not really agree with the quotes for those that did not get that, though I do strongly believe they should pay their freight for their choices).

pandora

EdsonNascimento wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

[
They can, if worried about second hand smoke, work elsewhere. Which is what they would choose anyways and the employees in said bar would most likely be smokers and enjoy where they worked.

It is my opinion there should be places for smokers to smoke and it should be up to the individual business owner, bar owners, whether to allow smoking for his clientele either in restricted or non restricted situation.

.

I agree.

Me too! And health insurers should be able to charge said smokers the appropriate Actuarial rate to take care of their health care services in the future! It's only RESPECTFUL to folks that choose not to smoke that they only pay their fair share and not subsidize other folks' habits.

Any takers?


(Do not really agree with the quotes for those that did not get that, though I do strongly believe they should pay their freight for their choices).

With many people choosing not to carry health insurance... the unholy racket that it is,
a better option may be to take some of the huge tax that the smokers pay on each pack and use it towards their future health problems to offset those costs.

That would be quite a future fund and it is their money.

Blockhead

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Me too! And health insurers should be able to charge said smokers the appropriate Actuarial rate to take care of their health care services in the future! It's only RESPECTFUL to folks that choose not to smoke that they only pay their fair share and not subsidize other folks' habits.

Any takers?


(Do not really agree with the quotes for those that did not get that, though I do strongly believe they should pay their freight for their choices).

They do that already...

EmBleve

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Me too! And health insurers should be able to charge said smokers the appropriate Actuarial rate to take care of their health care services in the future! It's only RESPECTFUL to folks that choose not to smoke that they only pay their fair share and not subsidize other folks' habits.


(Do not really agree with the quotes for those that did not get that, though I do strongly believe they should pay their freight for their choices).

Yes, I picked up on the sarcasm. Those who can afford health insurance do pay more for insurance if they are smokers if I am not mistaken. But whatever, that's kind of beside the point because I don't quite get this crazy reaction to those people who just happen to have the opinion that smoking should be allowed in some bars if the private owner makes that choice. Ya know? Don't work there, don't go there. So heavy..really.

Blockhead

EmBleve wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Me too! And health insurers should be able to charge said smokers the appropriate Actuarial rate to take care of their health care services in the future! It's only RESPECTFUL to folks that choose not to smoke that they only pay their fair share and not subsidize other folks' habits.


(Do not really agree with the quotes for those that did not get that, though I do strongly believe they should pay their freight for their choices).

Yes, I picked up on the sarcasm. Those who can afford health insurance do pay more for insurance if they are smokers if I am not mistaken. But whatever, that's kind of beside the point because I don't quite get this crazy reaction to those people who just happen to have the opinion that smoking should be allowed in some bars if the private owner makes that choice. Ya know? Don't work there, don't go there. So heavy..really.

I don't understand the ban, especially since its in privately owned establishments. I have never seen anybody forced to inhale second hand smoke, Why not ban fast food / junk food in public places also... as that does not provide a safe environment.

EmBleve

Blockhead wrote:

I don't understand the ban, especially since its in privately owned establishments. I have never seen anybody forced to inhale second hand smoke, Why not ban fast food / junk food in public places also... as that does not provide a safe environment.

I know...I don't get it, either. And fast food, good point. Clogged arteries, clogged bronchioles...six and one. The ban just seems a bit over the top to me. I remember once I heard something about not even being able to smoke in your CAR--I don't know how true that was or if it was even a debate, but I remember hearing about it and I was like you have got to be freaking kidding me on this!!

JonnyPistachio

EmBleve wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

I don't understand the ban, especially since its in privately owned establishments. I have never seen anybody forced to inhale second hand smoke, Why not ban fast food / junk food in public places also... as that does not provide a safe environment.

I know...I don't get it, either. And fast food, good point. Clogged arteries, clogged bronchioles...six and one. The ban just seems a bit over the top to me. I remember once I heard something about not even being able to smoke in your CAR--I don't know how true that was or if it was even a debate, but I remember hearing about it and I was like you have got to be freaking kidding me on this!!

I see what you're getting at, but these analogies are too far off topic...The guy sitting next to me eating a hamburger and fries does not affect me. The guy smoking next to me is poisoning me and everyone else in the vacinity.

I also understand everyone point about "dont go to a place where smoking is allowed if you dont like smoke", but there are exceptions to that as well. In my town and surrounding counties, there are only about three places where quality local original bands can play. I am in one such band. One of these places (unfortunately, the best one) has terrible circulation and is a giant smoke pit when only a few people light up. None of my friends (not even my girlfriend) can take it anymore. We get a good random crowd at the place, but its unfortunate that the smokers wont go outside for a few minutes, then our crowd would be much larger with both crowds. I just wish some smokers would be more courteous too. I would go outside if I was cloggin up a place with smoke. but in the end private businesess should be amking the choice. If I were a business owner I would just try to cater to both.

BinauralJam

Paul David wrote:

did you purposely put that "yes" in there? first, if so, we need to address your racism issues. second, you need to make sure you quote correctly, as I did not say that.

BinauralJam wrote:

Paul David wrote:

if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?

Yes

why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.

Your right about the quoting, not the racism, it's an ownership issue. Would you wana be the black guy who walks into that bar, no sign, but everybody doesn't want you there, rather uncomfortable i would think.

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I see what you're getting at, but these analogies are too far off topic...The guy sitting next to me eating a hamburger and fries does not affect me. The guy smoking next to me is poisoning me and everyone else in the vacinity. If the guy is inside his smoking is affecting you. If its outside its not. So being that It will only be inside where your going to be breathing in the poisons, why would you go into a place that allows smoking inside??? I also understand everyone point about "dont go to a place where smoking is allowed if you dont like smoke", but there are exceptions to that as well. In my town and surrounding counties, there are only about three places where quality local original bands can play. I am in one such band. One of these places (unfortunately, the best one) has terrible circulation and is a giant smoke pit when only a few people light up. None of my friends (not even my girlfriend) can take it anymore. We get a good random crowd at the place, but its unfortunate that the smokers wont go outside for a few minutes, then our crowd would be much larger with both crowds. I just wish some smokers would be more courteous too. I would go outside if I was cloggin up a place with smoke. but in the end private businesess should be amking the choice. If I were a business owner I would just try to cater to both.

Then you need to find somewhere else to play if it bothers you. Have you tried asking the people not to smoke while your playing?

JonnyPistachio

Blockhead wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I see what you're getting at, but these analogies are too far off topic...The guy sitting next to me eating a hamburger and fries does not affect me. The guy smoking next to me is poisoning me and everyone else in the vacinity. If the guy is inside his smoking is affecting you. If its outside its not. So being that It will only be inside where your going to be breathing in the poisons, why would you go into a place that allows smoking inside??? I also understand everyone point about "dont go to a place where smoking is allowed if you dont like smoke", but there are exceptions to that as well. In my town and surrounding counties, there are only about three places where quality local original bands can play. I am in one such band. One of these places (unfortunately, the best one) has terrible circulation and is a giant smoke pit when only a few people light up. None of my friends (not even my girlfriend) can take it anymore. We get a good random crowd at the place, but its unfortunate that the smokers wont go outside for a few minutes, then our crowd would be much larger with both crowds. I just wish some smokers would be more courteous too. I would go outside if I was cloggin up a place with smoke. but in the end private businesess should be amking the choice. If I were a business owner I would just try to cater to both.

Then you need to find somewhere else to play if it bothers you. Have you tried asking the people not to smoke while your playing?

Cant, Its the only good place for our type of music. If we dont go there, we pretty much seal up shop. I can't reasonably ask people to not smoke while we're playing, Its is also a place where several bands play per night. But there has been some promise -- one very popular local band had a show that coincided with an art show. They didnt want the art to turn yellow or be affected by the smoke so they made it a smoke free show. it was awesome to be able to breathe in there. Also, another band had a bass player who is pregnant, so they made it a smoke free show. funny how we are so concerned about art, babies and kids but couldnt give two shits about the average guy/gal.

btw, smoke stil affects you outside, just not as much.

EdsonNascimento

BinauralJam wrote:

Your right about the quoting, not the racism, it's an ownership issue. Would you wana be the black guy who walks into that bar, no sign, but everybody doesn't want you there, rather uncomfortable i would think.

Did you really just compare being black and uncomfortable around racists to smokers feeling uncomfortable because non-smokers don't want to be poisoned by 2nd hand smoke? :?

BinauralJam

EdsonNascimento wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Your right about the quoting, not the racism, it's an ownership issue. Would you wana be the black guy who walks into that bar, no sign, but everybody doesn't want you there, rather uncomfortable i would think.

Did you really just compare being black and uncomfortable around racists to smokers feeling uncomfortable because non-smokers don't want to be poisoned by 2nd hand smoke? :?

Nope

Black73

WaveRyder wrote:

actually, you don't know much about South Dakota, obviously. Sioux Falls SD had smoke free bars and restuarants and smoker friendly bars and restaurants. Everybody had a comfortable option if they wanted to dine out or go out for drink. But now that there is a smoking ban in all indoor places, private or not, not everybody has a choice to go out comfortably, only nonsmokers. Is that fair? Oh yeah, and your son WILL BE a social lepper with a helicopter parent like you.

and parents shouldnt be bringing their children into bars anyway. I have no problem with smoke free restaurants, but drinking establishments, come on.

That's the over-the-top point I was trying to make, because that appears to be the logic you're using in your arguments. That's all I was trying to get across in my first post on this: a comfortable DINING option for my son, not a smoke-free bar where I could take my kid...unlike the Steeple Bar in near Polo SD. Yeah, I don't know much about SD.

And how exactly am I a helicopter parent? Use some logic dude - and by logic I don't mean that I can go to the grocery store to buy him food. It's ok for the South Dakotan to have "...a comfortable option if they wanted to dine out..." but not ok for the "helicopter parent" and his son who's allergic to smoke? Um, think it was you who said earlier something about facism...your elitist attitude isn't much better.

Black73

Paul David wrote:

ok, yes, I was a smoker for 20 years, endured all the horrible hardships that society throws at smokers, the stereotyping, the clasping of the nostrils as people walk by me, the fanning of the face. gimme a break. :roll:

and actually, I guess you only read a few lines here and there, because I have stated quite plainly that I was one of those smokers that happily went outside to smoke, even if invited to stay in. why? because I didn't want to make people inhale my chemicals that I chose to inhale.

can I ask how old you are?

Don't bother Bro...to your point, he isn't reading down this far into your post.

Black73

cincybearcat wrote:

pandora wrote:

It is the very small minded who refuse to compromise.

Smokers are compromising and it is never enough for some nonsmokers.

It is not my unhealthy habit ...I do not smoke but I feel a private business owner should be allowed to provide an atmosphere for his clientele that includes smoking.
If you don't like it don't go there.
There are plenty of nonsmoking options for you.

I myself will enjoy all the places and all the people,
smokers or nonsmokers, because for me, thats what life is all about.
Enjoying people and not judging them because they choose to do something I do not.

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Equal respect works for every situation and if there was equal respect we wouldn't be talking about this.
But some nonsmokers are over the top and think smokers do not deserve a smoking area and do not deserve respect because of their habit.

And how about the employees of the bar? Is it ok for them to be knowingly subjected to a known carcinogen just so you don't have to be cold?

Employees should have a safe work environment IMHO

Black73

Black73 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

pandora wrote:

It is the very small minded who refuse to compromise.

Smokers are compromising and it is never enough for some nonsmokers.

It is not my unhealthy habit ...I do not smoke but I feel a private business owner should be allowed to provide an atmosphere for his clientele that includes smoking.
If you don't like it don't go there.
There are plenty of nonsmoking options for you.

I myself will enjoy all the places and all the people,
smokers or nonsmokers, because for me, thats what life is all about.
Enjoying people and not judging them because they choose to do something I do not.

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Equal respect works for every situation and if there was equal respect we wouldn't be talking about this.
But some nonsmokers are over the top and think smokers do not deserve a smoking area and do not deserve respect because of their habit.

And how about the employees of the bar? Is it ok for them to be knowingly subjected to a known carcinogen just so you don't have to be cold?

Yeah, what about the employees?

pandora

Black73 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

pandora wrote:

It is the very small minded who refuse to compromise.

Smokers are compromising and it is never enough for some nonsmokers.

It is not my unhealthy habit ...I do not smoke but I feel a private business owner should be allowed to provide an atmosphere for his clientele that includes smoking.
If you don't like it don't go there.
There are plenty of nonsmoking options for you.

I myself will enjoy all the places and all the people,
smokers or nonsmokers, because for me, thats what life is all about.
Enjoying people and not judging them because they choose to do something I do not.

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Equal respect works for every situation and if there was equal respect we wouldn't be talking about this.
But some nonsmokers are over the top and think smokers do not deserve a smoking area and do not deserve respect because of their habit.

And how about the employees of the bar? Is it ok for them to be knowingly subjected to a known carcinogen just so you don't have to be cold?

Employees should have a safe work environment IMHO

You know where I stand...
Employers should be allowed to offer smoking sections in their establishments and a full on all smoking club if they so choose.

Said job seeker can go work elsewhere if they are worried about second hand smoke which may never be a health risk to them at all.

No different then anyone else who is unqualified for a job position.
That person would not be qualified to work in a smoke environment.
It would hinder their ability to do a good job ... their issue with cigarette smoke.

This mean as a business owner I should be allowed
to find qualified future employees
and provide for my clientele which may be smokers.