There should be places for smokers to smoke, period.
The direction the new laws are taking are very unfair to the smokers,
treating them as second class citizens because they have an unhealthy habit.
Whats next?
Government does not need to be involved in this.
It should provide information only and allow citizens to choose.
Bars and restaurants should be allowed to provide both smoking and non smoking areas if they so choose,
it should be up to the owner because they know best the clientele and what makes the business a success.
The blanket laws now that allow for no smoking at all in ones business establishment is overkill.
Just once again way too much government.
As far as the street...its free air they should be allowed to smoke. As far as public gathering places provide smoking and non smoking areas.
I thought that was an interesting point someone made about one's idol smoking in the presence of a nonsmoker who is in favor of the harshest bans ...
I too wonder if they would be less judgmental and more tolerant because of who is doing the smoking.
Can't really picture someone avoiding a very favorite person because of a little cigarette smoke.
Maybe we should treat each other with the same respect...smokers and nonsmokers alike.
Just watch out for each other and try to like and accept each other.
What is amazing is that (many of) the smokers on this thread don't understand how different smoking is from the other things they are trying to lump it in with. When you smoke, you put poisons in the air that kill other people. 2nd hand smoke - proven fact. If I had a habit that potentially harmed other people, laws are made to prevent it for the public good.
Drinking and driving - law against it. If they don't hit anyone, there's no issue. So, why is there a law? However, when you smoke, you 100% affect every person around you. So, for the public good, laws are made. (not advocating DWI. Making a point).
Yes, it distrubs me when folks I like smoke. And, yes, it makes me lose a little respect for them. Many a time I thought I've seen a hot girl, only to have her turn around smoking and lose all attractiveness.
Your last statement is perfect. It's just your interpretation that's a bit askew.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
What is amazing is that (many of) the smokers on this thread don't understand how different smoking is from the other things they are trying to lump it in with. When you smoke, you put poisons in the air that kill other people. 2nd hand smoke - proven fact. If I had a habit that potentially harmed other people, laws are made to prevent it for the public good.
Drinking and driving - law against it. If they don't hit anyone, there's no issue. So, why is there a law? However, when you smoke, you 100% affect every person around you. So, for the public good, laws are made. (not advocating DWI. Making a point).
Yes, it distrubs me when folks I like smoke. And, yes, it makes me lose a little respect for them. Many a time I thought I've seen a hot girl, only to have her turn around smoking and lose all attractiveness.
Your last statement is perfect. It's just your interpretation that's a bit askew.
Perfumes / Fragrances can cause severe asthma attacks - Proven FACT. Severe asthma attacks can cause death - Proven FACT... So why don't we have law against perfumes / fragrances since they potentially harm other people?
There should be places for smokers to smoke, period.
The direction the new laws are taking are very unfair to the smokers,
treating them as second class citizens because they have an unhealthy habit.
Whats next?
Government does not need to be involved in this.
It should provide information only and allow citizens to choose.
Bars and restaurants should be allowed to provide both smoking and non smoking areas if they so choose,
it should be up to the owner because they know best the clientele and what makes the business a success.
The blanket laws now that allow for no smoking at all in ones business establishment is overkill.
Just once again way too much government.
As far as the street...its free air they should be allowed to smoke. As far as public gathering places provide smoking and non smoking areas.
I thought that was an interesting point someone made about one's idol smoking in the presence of a nonsmoker who is in favor of the harshest bans ...
I too wonder if they would be less judgmental and more tolerant because of who is doing the smoking.
Can't really picture someone avoiding a very favorite person because of a little cigarette smoke.
Maybe we should treat each other with the same respect...smokers and nonsmokers alike.
Just watch out for each other and try to like and accept each other.
What is amazing is that (many of) the smokers on this thread don't understand how different smoking is from the other things they are trying to lump it in with. When you smoke, you put poisons in the air that kill other people. 2nd hand smoke - proven fact. If I had a habit that potentially harmed other people, laws are made to prevent it for the public good.
Drinking and driving - law against it. If they don't hit anyone, there's no issue. So, why is there a law? However, when you smoke, you 100% affect every person around you. So, for the public good, laws are made. (not advocating DWI. Making a point).
Yes, it distrubs me when folks I like smoke. And, yes, it makes me lose a little respect for them. Many a time I thought I've seen a hot girl, only to have her turn around smoking and lose all attractiveness.
Your last statement is perfect. It's just your interpretation that's a bit askew.
not really eskew... I meant it both ways but still you only see it your way.
ah, the age-old smokers defense that we non-smokers can go somewhere else. how about being a decent human being and keeping your fucking poison to yourself.
maybe I should just start shitting in the sidewalk, and if you step in it, I tell you it's your fucking fault and you should go find a different sidewalk to walk on? that makes as much sense as that moronic logic.
Should we start banning cars and busses for exhaust emission, I don't want to breath those toxins (carbon dioxide), so why don't we ban them?
Same goes for perfumes/ fragrances - my wife gets severe asthma attacks ( could be fatal) around certin kinds of fregrances, now we are burdened with keeping an Empi pen in her purse where ever we go... Shouldn't we ban fragrances since it could cause severe asthma attacks and cause death? Where is the outrage over these?
It is pretty effortless to avoid smoke/smoking.
Just because you don't like the smell does not mean your "inhaling it"
The office I work in does ban the fragrances. But, again, that does not effect EVERYONE. My kids have peanut allergies. I do not ask Yankee Stadium to stop selling peanuts.
There are laws that affect emissions. Most states have inspections, etc. that make sure your vehicle's emissions are under a certain level. Whether that's stringent enough or not is another debate. However, our whole way of life is built around the car (well, if you don't live near Alpine Valley, that is ). So, it would actually do more public harm than good to create laws like that. But, there is a constant debate and things can change.
You don't HAVE TO smoke. But, when you do, it negatively impacts EVERY person around you with no common good extracted from it. We do have harmful things going on that we still believe the good outweighs the bad. Again, debate can continue on those items. With smoking there is no debate. All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
ding ding ding ding. we have a winner. so keep your anti smoking laws out of my privately owned bar please.
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
ding ding ding ding. we have a winner. so keep your anti smoking laws out of my privately owned bar please.
Look, I don't give a healthy shit one way or the other, b/c since I quit drinking I no longer frequent bars. I see the private bar owner and her/his desire (perhaps her/his right) to allow smoking in said establishment. S/he pays taxes, mortgage/rent so why shouldn't s/he be able to set policy in her/his building?
To play devil's advocate, what about the non-smoking (perhaps asthmatic) waiter/waitress/bartender who needs her/his job to make ends meet, and the only place hiring is a bar that allows smoking? I guess their rights and civil liberties be damned, huh?
I see both sides, as a once-smoker and drinker who enjoyed smoking even more with his drinks. I also see it from the perspective of the father with the asthmatic son who had to "choose" to go to a non-smoking restaurant before a lot of smoke-free policies took effect. Good luck explaining to your hungry two year-old why we won't be eating at this restaurant or that one...because we have the "choice" to go to a smoke-free establishment.
No one is right here - so you manage to the exception like you do in every other aspect of your life.
All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
ding ding ding ding. we have a winner. so keep your anti smoking laws out of my privately owned bar please.
Look, I don't give a healthy shit one way or the other, b/c since I quit drinking I no longer frequent bars. I see the private bar owner and her/his desire (perhaps her/his right) to allow smoking in said establishment. S/he pays taxes, mortgage/rent so why shouldn't s/he be able to set policy in her/his building?
To play devil's advocate, what about the non-smoking (perhaps asthmatic) waiter/waitress/bartender who needs her/his job to make ends meet, and the only place hiring is a bar that allows smoking? I guess their rights and civil liberties be damned, huh?
I see both sides, as a once-smoker and drinker who enjoyed smoking even more with his drinks. I also see it from the perspective of the father with the asthmatic son who had to "choose" to go to a non-smoking restaurant before a lot of smoke-free policies took effect. Good luck explaining to your hungry two year-old why we won't be eating at this restaurant or that one...because we have the "choice" to go to a smoke-free establishment.
No one is right here - so you manage to the exception like you do in every other aspect of your life.
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
and that dad with the asthmatic son, we;ll he can go to the grocery story, where you cant smoke, and buy some food there. Come on man, you can do better than that.
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
What is amazing is that (many of) the smokers on this thread don't understand how different smoking is from the other things they are trying to lump it in with. When you smoke, you put poisons in the air that kill other people. 2nd hand smoke - proven fact. If I had a habit that potentially harmed other people, laws are made to prevent it for the public good.
Drinking and driving - law against it. If they don't hit anyone, there's no issue. So, why is there a law? However, when you smoke, you 100% affect every person around you. So, for the public good, laws are made. (not advocating DWI. Making a point).
Yes, it distrubs me when folks I like smoke. And, yes, it makes me lose a little respect for them. Many a time I thought I've seen a hot girl, only to have her turn around smoking and lose all attractiveness.
Your last statement is perfect. It's just your interpretation that's a bit askew.
Perfumes / Fragrances can cause severe asthma attacks - Proven FACT. Severe asthma attacks can cause death - Proven FACT... So why don't we have law against perfumes / fragrances since they potentially harm other people?
All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
ding ding ding ding. we have a winner. so keep your anti smoking laws out of my privately owned bar please.
So, how do you protect your employees from the known hazard then?
Everyone else has to do it in manufacturing...bar owners have a responsibility to provide their employees with a safe working environment....don't they?
What is amazing is that (many of) the smokers on this thread don't understand how different smoking is from the other things they are trying to lump it in with. When you smoke, you put poisons in the air that kill other people. 2nd hand smoke - proven fact. If I had a habit that potentially harmed other people, laws are made to prevent it for the public good.
Drinking and driving - law against it. If they don't hit anyone, there's no issue. So, why is there a law? However, when you smoke, you 100% affect every person around you. So, for the public good, laws are made. (not advocating DWI. Making a point).
Yes, it distrubs me when folks I like smoke. And, yes, it makes me lose a little respect for them. Many a time I thought I've seen a hot girl, only to have her turn around smoking and lose all attractiveness.
Your last statement is perfect. It's just your interpretation that's a bit askew.
Perfumes / Fragrances can cause severe asthma attacks - Proven FACT. Severe asthma attacks can cause death - Proven FACT... So why don't we have law against perfumes / fragrances since they potentially harm other people?
Because they don't potentially harm EVERYBODY.
SO everyone that is exposed to second hand smoke is harmed? Please link, also how much exposure, distances, ammount factor into second hand smoke which shows its harm.
All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
ding ding ding ding. we have a winner. so keep your anti smoking laws out of my privately owned bar please.
So, how do you protect your employees from the known hazard then?
Everyone else has to do it in manufacturing...bar owners have a responsibility to provide their employees with a safe working environment....don't they?
Are you saying people that work in smoking enviroments are not aware of the dangers of second hand smoke? What responsibility other then letting them know all the risks / exposure is a buisness supposed to do?
What about concrete workers especially ones that saw cut, releasing all the silica dust into the air? Would you say being a doctor is a safe working enviorment, being exposed to sick people all day everyday?
Look, I don't give a healthy shit one way or the other, b/c since I quit drinking I no longer frequent bars. I see the private bar owner and her/his desire (perhaps her/his right) to allow smoking in said establishment. S/he pays taxes, mortgage/rent so why shouldn't s/he be able to set policy in her/his building?
To play devil's advocate, what about the non-smoking (perhaps asthmatic) waiter/waitress/bartender who needs her/his job to make ends meet, and the only place hiring is a bar that allows smoking? I guess their rights and civil liberties be damned, huh?
I see both sides, as a once-smoker and drinker who enjoyed smoking even more with his drinks. I also see it from the perspective of the father with the asthmatic son who had to "choose" to go to a non-smoking restaurant before a lot of smoke-free policies took effect. Good luck explaining to your hungry two year-old why we won't be eating at this restaurant or that one...because we have the "choice" to go to a smoke-free establishment.
No one is right here - so you manage to the exception like you do in every other aspect of your life.
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
and that dad with the asthmatic son, we;ll he can go to the grocery story, where you cant smoke, and buy some food there. Come on man, you can do better than that.
Yeah, I know that I CAN go to the grocery store and buy food for my asthmatic son...I routinely do it. Guess I should shut him in a bubble and just "reward" him with grocery store food, huh? I know it's not the world's problem that he has asthma - he's the societal leper so f#ck him for wanting to eat in a restaurant that doesn't allow smoking. I know it's not as a big a deal in South Dakota, where the only restaurant you have is next door to the Mitchell Corn Palace..."dining out" for you probably was going to Cub Food.
Look, I don't give a healthy shit one way or the other, b/c since I quit drinking I no longer frequent bars. I see the private bar owner and her/his desire (perhaps her/his right) to allow smoking in said establishment. S/he pays taxes, mortgage/rent so why shouldn't s/he be able to set policy in her/his building?
To play devil's advocate, what about the non-smoking (perhaps asthmatic) waiter/waitress/bartender who needs her/his job to make ends meet, and the only place hiring is a bar that allows smoking? I guess their rights and civil liberties be damned, huh?
I see both sides, as a once-smoker and drinker who enjoyed smoking even more with his drinks. I also see it from the perspective of the father with the asthmatic son who had to "choose" to go to a non-smoking restaurant before a lot of smoke-free policies took effect. Good luck explaining to your hungry two year-old why we won't be eating at this restaurant or that one...because we have the "choice" to go to a smoke-free establishment.
No one is right here - so you manage to the exception like you do in every other aspect of your life.
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
and that dad with the asthmatic son, we;ll he can go to the grocery story, where you cant smoke, and buy some food there. Come on man, you can do better than that.
Yeah, I know that I CAN go to the grocery store and buy food for my asthmatic son...I routinely do it. Guess I should shut him in a bubble and just "reward" him with grocery store food, huh? I know it's not the world's problem that he has asthma - he's the societal leper so f#ck him for wanting to eat in a restaurant that doesn't allow smoking. I know it's not as a big a deal in South Dakota, where the only restaurant you have is next door to the Mitchell Corn Palace..."dining out" for you probably was going to Cub Food.
actually, you don't know much about South Dakota, obviously. Sioux Falls SD had smoke free bars and restuarants and smoker friendly bars and restaurants. Everybody had a comfortable option if they wanted to dine out or go out for drink. But now that there is a smoking ban in all indoor places, private or not, not everybody has a choice to go out comfortably, only nonsmokers. Is that fair? Oh yeah, and your son WILL BE a social lepper with a helicopter parent like you.
and parents shouldnt be bringing their children into bars anyway. I have no problem with smoke free restaurants, but drinking establishments, come on.
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
Are you saying people that work in smoking enviroments are not aware of the dangers of second hand smoke? What responsibility other then letting them know all the risks / exposure is a buisness supposed to do?
What about concrete workers especially ones that saw cut, releasing all the silica dust into the air? Would you say being a doctor is a safe working enviorment, being exposed to sick people all day everyday?
No, I am saying that their employee is required by law to provide a safe working environment, not just tell them the risks.
Business are required to protect their employees not just inform them. Hell, in industry if an employee violates company policy and is exposed to something harmful...the company is still on the hook for their treatment as well as most likely fined for not protecting the employee.
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?
why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Bars and restaurants should be allowed to provide both smoking and non smoking areas if they so choose,
having a no-smoking section in any indoor place is liking having a no-peeing section in a pool. there's no plastic bubble that forces all the smoke into one area. come on.
Maybe we should treat each other with the same respect...smokers and nonsmokers alike.
Just watch out for each other and try to like and accept each other.
your equal respect ideals don't work in every single situation, pandora. it just doesn't make any sense. it's easy for a smoker to say, I'm not giving them anything they are forced to accept about me! unless you think my clean lungs are a detriment to society and disgust you.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?
Yes
why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.
I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.
hey smokers: IS IT REALLY THAT BOTHERSOME FOR YOU TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE???? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY.
I did it as a smoker. So can you.
when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?
Yes
why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.
I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.
perfect post
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
hey smokers: IS IT REALLY THAT BOTHERSOME FOR YOU TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE???? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY.
I did it as a smoker. So can you.
when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.
ok, so by that logic, when the bar fills up, then they kick your ass outside to light up. makes sense. :?
but it makes perfect sense to tell a bar owner he cant let his/her patrons smoke if he/she chooses to.....and if the majority of the patrons are smokers?
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
[
I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.
perfect post
actually, it's a horrible analogy. gay and smoking are the same? I don't think so. last time I checked, being homosexual didn't infringe on my right to breathe clean air.
and if it was legal, and up to the owner, what owner in their right mind would not allow it? you basically are committing business suicide if you get rid of the smoking portion of the bar-going crowd but the guy down the street lets them in. then you're right back where you started. people smoking indoors.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?
nice. as mature as I should expect from you. but I'll answer it anyway.....if by "stick up his ass" you actually mean "has high regard for those around him, and enjoys being polite to his fellow human", then I guess I've had that up my ass for quite a long time.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?
nice. as mature as I should expect from you. but I'll answer it anyway.....if by "stick up his ass" you actually mean "has high regard for those around him, and enjoys being polite to his fellow human", then I guess I've had that up my ass for quite a long time.
apparently smokers aren't human to you.
RC, SoDak 1998 - KC 2000 - Council Bluffs IA 2003 - Fargo ND 2003 - St. Paul MN 2003 - Alpine Valley 2003 - St Louis MO 2004 - Kissimmee FLA 2004 - Winnipeg 2005 - Thunder Bay 2005 - Chicago 2006 - Grand Rapids MI 2006 - Denver CO 2006 - Lollapalooza 2007 - Bonnaroo 2008 - Austin City Limits 2009 - Los Angeles 2009 - KC 2010 - St Louis MO 2010 - PJ20 Night 1 - PJ20 Night 2
Comments
What is amazing is that (many of) the smokers on this thread don't understand how different smoking is from the other things they are trying to lump it in with. When you smoke, you put poisons in the air that kill other people. 2nd hand smoke - proven fact. If I had a habit that potentially harmed other people, laws are made to prevent it for the public good.
Drinking and driving - law against it. If they don't hit anyone, there's no issue. So, why is there a law? However, when you smoke, you 100% affect every person around you. So, for the public good, laws are made. (not advocating DWI. Making a point).
Yes, it distrubs me when folks I like smoke. And, yes, it makes me lose a little respect for them. Many a time I thought I've seen a hot girl, only to have her turn around smoking and lose all attractiveness.
Your last statement is perfect. It's just your interpretation that's a bit askew.
The office I work in does ban the fragrances. But, again, that does not effect EVERYONE. My kids have peanut allergies. I do not ask Yankee Stadium to stop selling peanuts.
There are laws that affect emissions. Most states have inspections, etc. that make sure your vehicle's emissions are under a certain level. Whether that's stringent enough or not is another debate. However, our whole way of life is built around the car (well, if you don't live near Alpine Valley, that is
You don't HAVE TO smoke. But, when you do, it negatively impacts EVERY person around you with no common good extracted from it. We do have harmful things going on that we still believe the good outweighs the bad. Again, debate can continue on those items. With smoking there is no debate. All public places should be created safe from advocations that are ALL BAD with NO PUBLIC GOOD attached to it.
ding ding ding ding. we have a winner. so keep your anti smoking laws out of my privately owned bar please.
Look, I don't give a healthy shit one way or the other, b/c since I quit drinking I no longer frequent bars. I see the private bar owner and her/his desire (perhaps her/his right) to allow smoking in said establishment. S/he pays taxes, mortgage/rent so why shouldn't s/he be able to set policy in her/his building?
To play devil's advocate, what about the non-smoking (perhaps asthmatic) waiter/waitress/bartender who needs her/his job to make ends meet, and the only place hiring is a bar that allows smoking? I guess their rights and civil liberties be damned, huh?
I see both sides, as a once-smoker and drinker who enjoyed smoking even more with his drinks. I also see it from the perspective of the father with the asthmatic son who had to "choose" to go to a non-smoking restaurant before a lot of smoke-free policies took effect. Good luck explaining to your hungry two year-old why we won't be eating at this restaurant or that one...because we have the "choice" to go to a smoke-free establishment.
No one is right here - so you manage to the exception like you do in every other aspect of your life.
no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.
and that dad with the asthmatic son, we;ll he can go to the grocery story, where you cant smoke, and buy some food there. Come on man, you can do better than that.
Because they don't potentially harm EVERYBODY.
So, how do you protect your employees from the known hazard then?
Everyone else has to do it in manufacturing...bar owners have a responsibility to provide their employees with a safe working environment....don't they?
If the kid asks you (whether it's herb or cigs) if you ever smoked, I found a good response to be something like this
Have you ever smoked (weed in this case) ?
"I am not going to answer that"
Why not? What are you trying to hide
"Well, if I tell you I did (or do) i would be condoning the behaviour. If I told you I never have, you wouldn't think I can relate or understand".
woot
What about concrete workers especially ones that saw cut, releasing all the silica dust into the air? Would you say being a doctor is a safe working enviorment, being exposed to sick people all day everyday?
Yeah, I know that I CAN go to the grocery store and buy food for my asthmatic son...I routinely do it. Guess I should shut him in a bubble and just "reward" him with grocery store food, huh? I know it's not the world's problem that he has asthma - he's the societal leper so f#ck him for wanting to eat in a restaurant that doesn't allow smoking. I know it's not as a big a deal in South Dakota, where the only restaurant you have is next door to the Mitchell Corn Palace..."dining out" for you probably was going to Cub Food.
actually, you don't know much about South Dakota, obviously. Sioux Falls SD had smoke free bars and restuarants and smoker friendly bars and restaurants. Everybody had a comfortable option if they wanted to dine out or go out for drink. But now that there is a smoking ban in all indoor places, private or not, not everybody has a choice to go out comfortably, only nonsmokers. Is that fair? Oh yeah, and your son WILL BE a social lepper with a helicopter parent like you.
and parents shouldnt be bringing their children into bars anyway. I have no problem with smoke free restaurants, but drinking establishments, come on.
No, I am saying that their employee is required by law to provide a safe working environment, not just tell them the risks.
Business are required to protect their employees not just inform them. Hell, in industry if an employee violates company policy and is exposed to something harmful...the company is still on the hook for their treatment as well as most likely fined for not protecting the employee.
if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?
why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I did it as a smoker. So can you.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
why? why should a smoker have rights that infringe on the well-being of a non-smoker?
nope, it's because your unhealthy habit affects the health of others.
having a no-smoking section in any indoor place is liking having a no-peeing section in a pool. there's no plastic bubble that forces all the smoke into one area. come on.
your equal respect ideals don't work in every single situation, pandora. it just doesn't make any sense. it's easy for a smoker to say, I'm not giving them anything they are forced to accept about me! unless you think my clean lungs are a detriment to society and disgust you.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.
when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.
perfect post
ok, so by that logic, when the bar fills up, then they kick your ass outside to light up. makes sense. :?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
but it makes perfect sense to tell a bar owner he cant let his/her patrons smoke if he/she chooses to.....and if the majority of the patrons are smokers?
actually, it's a horrible analogy. gay and smoking are the same? I don't think so. last time I checked, being homosexual didn't infringe on my right to breathe clean air.
and if it was legal, and up to the owner, what owner in their right mind would not allow it? you basically are committing business suicide if you get rid of the smoking portion of the bar-going crowd but the guy down the street lets them in. then you're right back where you started. people smoking indoors.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
nice. as mature as I should expect from you. but I'll answer it anyway.....if by "stick up his ass" you actually mean "has high regard for those around him, and enjoys being polite to his fellow human", then I guess I've had that up my ass for quite a long time.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
apparently smokers aren't human to you.
I've been in that situation.....but try 45 below and 3 people in the bar. did I whine? NOPE. that's the way it goes. suck it up.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014