Just caught my girlfriends 14 yr old son smoking...

BinauralJam

Paul David wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.

if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?

Yes

why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.

I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.

WaveRyder

Paul David wrote:

hey smokers: IS IT REALLY THAT BOTHERSOME FOR YOU TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE???? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY.

I did it as a smoker. So can you.

when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.

WaveRyder

BinauralJam wrote:

Paul David wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

no one is guaranteed a job. no one has a right to job. You have a right to your life and your liberty, and no one else's and that's about it. It's the main principle America was built on. It's a private business. that's all there is to it.

if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?

Yes

why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.

I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.

perfect post

Hugh Freaking Dillon

WaveRyder wrote:

Paul David wrote:

hey smokers: IS IT REALLY THAT BOTHERSOME FOR YOU TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE???? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY.

I did it as a smoker. So can you.

when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.

ok, so by that logic, when the bar fills up, then they kick your ass outside to light up. makes sense. :?

WaveRyder

Paul David wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

Paul David wrote:

hey smokers: IS IT REALLY THAT BOTHERSOME FOR YOU TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE???? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY.

I did it as a smoker. So can you.

when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.

ok, so by that logic, when the bar fills up, then they kick your ass outside to light up. makes sense. :?

but it makes perfect sense to tell a bar owner he cant let his/her patrons smoke if he/she chooses to.....and if the majority of the patrons are smokers?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

WaveRyder wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

[
I don't think your telling people to fuck off by placing a sign in the window stating, This is a Smoking Bar. It's like a gay bar, they put a rainbow sticker in the window, so you will know, you can come in, but if your straight, this might not be the bar your looking for.

perfect post

actually, it's a horrible analogy. gay and smoking are the same? I don't think so. last time I checked, being homosexual didn't infringe on my right to breathe clean air.

and if it was legal, and up to the owner, what owner in their right mind would not allow it? you basically are committing business suicide if you get rid of the smoking portion of the bar-going crowd but the guy down the street lets them in. then you're right back where you started. people smoking indoors.

WaveRyder

Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

WaveRyder wrote:

Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?

nice. as mature as I should expect from you. but I'll answer it anyway.....if by "stick up his ass" you actually mean "has high regard for those around him, and enjoys being polite to his fellow human", then I guess I've had that up my ass for quite a long time.

WaveRyder

Paul David wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?

nice. as mature as I should expect from you. but I'll answer it anyway.....if by "stick up his ass" you actually mean "has high regard for those around him, and enjoys being polite to his fellow human", then I guess I've had that up my ass for quite a long time.

apparently smokers aren't human to you.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

WaveRyder wrote:

Paul David wrote:

hey smokers: IS IT REALLY THAT BOTHERSOME FOR YOU TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE???? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY.

I did it as a smoker. So can you.

when it's 20 below zero and 10 people are standing outside the bar smoking and no one is inside except the bartender- that's when its bullshit.

I've been in that situation.....but try 45 below and 3 people in the bar. did I whine? NOPE. that's the way it goes. suck it up.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

WaveRyder wrote:

Paul David wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?

nice. as mature as I should expect from you. but I'll answer it anyway.....if by "stick up his ass" you actually mean "has high regard for those around him, and enjoys being polite to his fellow human", then I guess I've had that up my ass for quite a long time.

apparently smokers aren't human to you.

ok, yes, I was a smoker for 20 years, endured all the horrible hardships that society throws at smokers, the stereotyping, the clasping of the nostrils as people walk by me, the fanning of the face. gimme a break. :roll:

and actually, I guess you only read a few lines here and there, because I have stated quite plainly that I was one of those smokers that happily went outside to smoke, even if invited to stay in. why? because I didn't want to make people inhale my chemicals that I chose to inhale.

can I ask how old you are?

BinauralJam

i think you missed my analogy, the sign was the point. not the gay people dude.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

BinauralJam wrote:

i think you missed my analogy, the sign was the point. not the gay people dude.

oh, I got your "analogy". good one.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

did you purposely put that "yes" in there? first, if so, we need to address your racism issues. second, you need to make sure you quote correctly, as I did not say that.

BinauralJam wrote:

Paul David wrote:

if that's all there is to it, waveryder, then I guess you support someone putting up a sign in their private business saying "no blacks allowed". hey, it's their own private property, right? they can do what they want, right?

Yes

why do people always say "this is america!" when referencing telling everyone else to fuck off when they are doing something bothersome? I wouldn't be proud to live in a country if it was built on that.

pandora

Paul David wrote:

pandora wrote:

There should be places for smokers to smoke, period.

why? why should a smoker have rights that infringe on the well-being of a non-smoker?

pandora wrote:

The direction the new laws are taking are very unfair to the smokers,
treating them as second class citizens because they have an unhealthy habit.

nope, it's because your unhealthy habit affects the health of others.

pandora wrote:

Bars and restaurants should be allowed to provide both smoking and non smoking areas if they so choose,

having a no-smoking section in any indoor place is liking having a no-peeing section in a pool. there's no plastic bubble that forces all the smoke into one area. come on.

pandora wrote:

Maybe we should treat each other with the same respect...smokers and nonsmokers alike.
Just watch out for each other and try to like and accept each other.

your equal respect ideals don't work in every single situation, pandora. it just doesn't make any sense. it's easy for a smoker to say, I'm not giving them anything they are forced to accept about me! unless you think my clean lungs are a detriment to society and disgust you.

It is the very small minded who refuse to compromise.

Smokers are compromising and it is never enough for some nonsmokers.

It is not my unhealthy habit ...I do not smoke but I feel a private business owner should be allowed to provide an atmosphere for his clientele that includes smoking.
If you don't like it don't go there.
There are plenty of nonsmoking options for you.

I myself will enjoy all the places and all the people,
smokers or nonsmokers, because for me, thats what life is all about.
Enjoying people and not judging them because they choose to do something I do not.

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Equal respect works for every situation and if there was equal respect we wouldn't be talking about this.
But some nonsmokers are over the top and think smokers do not deserve a smoking area and do not deserve respect because of their habit.

Jason P

I just came back from Wisconsin and was SHOCKED to learn that you can no longer smoke in bars! This is a state where you can buy a 5 lb packs of beef sticks at most gas stations for under $30 and fish fry's are a stones throw from wherever you are on a Friday night. In fact, most people gain 5 extra pounds by just crossing the state line.

_

Oh God... :roll:

cincybearcat

pandora wrote:

It is the very small minded who refuse to compromise.

Smokers are compromising and it is never enough for some nonsmokers.

It is not my unhealthy habit ...I do not smoke but I feel a private business owner should be allowed to provide an atmosphere for his clientele that includes smoking.
If you don't like it don't go there.
There are plenty of nonsmoking options for you.

I myself will enjoy all the places and all the people,
smokers or nonsmokers, because for me, thats what life is all about.
Enjoying people and not judging them because they choose to do something I do not.

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Equal respect works for every situation and if there was equal respect we wouldn't be talking about this.
But some nonsmokers are over the top and think smokers do not deserve a smoking area and do not deserve respect because of their habit.

And how about the employees of the bar? Is it ok for them to be knowingly subjected to a known carcinogen just so you don't have to be cold?

JonnyPistachio

WaveRyder wrote:

Has Paul David always had a stick up his ass or what?

You guys were having a good discussion up to this point. That's really a pathetic comment dude. Really shows what we're dealing with here. I was glad to hear him ask how old you are becuase thats the only excuse I can see here. I think Paul David has an excellent stance on this, being one of the few who has been a smoker and is currently a nonsmoker. Simply put, its POiSON, and the less of it people have to deal with, the better we'll all be.

pandora wrote:

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Also, as far as the question of being around someone you love or Eddie Vedder smoking, sure thats a good question. I've seen Ed smoke twice in the 14 shows i've attended. I didnt smell it. I also saw on a DVD how he put out a cigarette and carried the butt all the way to a trash can. I believe he is a respectful person and would take it outside if he could or was asked to do so, with no problem whatsoever. I also bet that he doesnt smoke in the same room as his kids. He's too smart for that.

My father smokes. I leave the room if I smell it on his clothes. Makes me sick. My fatehr was also respectful enough to smoke outside the entire time I was growing up. He was concerened for my families health. Why does not our fellow man/woman have concern for the health of all people around them? If I were a smoker, I would ALWAYS take it outside and away from people because I am courteous.

pandora

cincybearcat wrote:

pandora wrote:

It is the very small minded who refuse to compromise.

Smokers are compromising and it is never enough for some nonsmokers.

It is not my unhealthy habit ...I do not smoke but I feel a private business owner should be allowed to provide an atmosphere for his clientele that includes smoking.
If you don't like it don't go there.
There are plenty of nonsmoking options for you.

I myself will enjoy all the places and all the people,
smokers or nonsmokers, because for me, thats what life is all about.
Enjoying people and not judging them because they choose to do something I do not.

I see you skipped over the section on an idol smoking and how you would choose to handle that. Perhaps look disgusted at them and say they stunk and leave their presence.... :?

Equal respect works for every situation and if there was equal respect we wouldn't be talking about this.
But some nonsmokers are over the top and think smokers do not deserve a smoking area and do not deserve respect because of their habit.

And how about the employees of the bar? Is it ok for them to be knowingly subjected to a known carcinogen just so you don't have to be cold?

Did you even read what I wrote? There's some respect!....
I DO NOT SMOKE! :?

They can, if worried about second hand smoke, work elsewhere. Which is what they would choose anyways and the employees in said bar would most likely be smokers and enjoy where they worked.

You say "out in the cold" but soon it will be no smoking with however many feet of a private establishment because a nonsmoker can not walk through a whiff of smoke that may trail through the air towards them.
This is not the description of the term second hand smoke either.... an occasional whiff.

I am concerned for the rights of the business owners and those of the smokers.

Way to much government involvement. Way to much hysteria.

It is my opinion there should be places for smokers to smoke and it should be up to the individual business owner, bar owners, whether to allow smoking for his clientele either in restricted or non restricted situation.

Perhaps in the future there will be private smokers clubs as an answer to the loss of social interaction and public space for smokers.
This should be perfectly fine with nonsmokers.... one would think.