Union Busting in Wisconsin!!!

Cosmo

81 wrote:

you can spin it anyway you want, but i'm going to see a hefty increase in my tax paid.

life long pensions for .gov employee's is a bunch of crap. if a 401k system is good enough for me, it's good enough for them.

we won't even discuss some of the bs that goes on with some of the people who are getting close to retirement. there are tons of cases where these people get massive salary increases in teh last 5 years of employment, which results in a higher pension.

...
I think you are mistaking me for someone who is for tax increases. I am only for paying for the services you want provided to you... roads, police, fire, education, etc... The money has to come from somewhere.
I'm not trying to 'Spin' anything... I am simply pointing out the hysteria that media outlets and pundits are whipping up. They are spinning it in the direction of a 66% increase... which it is. It is also a total of 2 cents on the dollar. Both are true statements. But a tax hike of 66% gets more headlines and freaks out more Tea Partiers than 2 cents more per dollar.

Prince Of Dorkness

I mean... I guess someone's got a point.

Why should I have to pay the same taxes as you straight people?

I'm not going to have kids... so I should pay less. I'm not going to use public playgrounds, schools, school lunch programs... I don't get all those nice tax breaks you guys get... so I shouldn't have to pay for them.

I'm not going to be able to take advantage of a lot of programs made for you people... And hey, up until just recently I couldn't even join the military so I should have gotten a bit of a tax credit for that, too.

See... when you make things all about you, there's a LOT of savings in it for you.

Since us homos all live downtown, I don't think I should have to pay for highways out to the suburbs... besides, fixing those roads just encourages you people to like... come into the city and drive those tacky cars you all have...

(if you're not smart enough to catch the sarcasm in my post.. I'm kinda embarrassed for you)

JOEJOEJOE

Jasunmark wrote:

I mean... I guess someone's got a point.

Why should I have to pay the same taxes as you straight people?

I'm not going to have kids... so I should pay less. I'm not going to use public playgrounds, schools, school lunch programs... I don't get all those nice tax breaks you guys get... so I shouldn't have to pay for them.

I'm not going to be able to take advantage of a lot of programs made for you people... And hey, up until just recently I couldn't even join the military so I should have gotten a bit of a tax credit for that, too.

See... when you make things all about you, there's a LOT of savings in it for you.

Since us homos all live downtown, I don't think I should have to pay for highways out to the suburbs... besides, fixing those roads just encourages you people to like... come into the city and drive those tacky cars you all have...

Shouldn't you boys pay for the 10 freeway between L.A. And Palm Springs!

(if you're not smart enough to catch the sarcasm in my post.. I'm kinda embarrassed for you)

Jason P

Jasunmark wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Now the unions know they are screwed and want to offer concessions but it looks like Walker wants to strike with a dagger to the heart … something that the unions have no problem doing when the tables are turned.

Ok, this one is bugging me..

First... not sure if the unions ARE screwed. The majority of people in Wisconsin are backing the unions and not the Governor.

Second.. the base of the Republican party is the Christian right and I can't think of a time when a Democratic Governor has tried to destroy churches or anything similar. what do you mean by that last part?

For the first part, it looks like the Republicans are not backing down so sooner or later they will get their way ... which may backfire in the long run when the next election comes around. On the second part, I guess that was more directed towards my experience with construction trade unions. I like the training they provide to their workers but they are ruthless, use deplorable tactics, and will use any leverage they can to get their way.

81

Cosmo wrote:

81 wrote:

you can spin it anyway you want, but i'm going to see a hefty increase in my tax paid.

life long pensions for .gov employee's is a bunch of crap. if a 401k system is good enough for me, it's good enough for them.

we won't even discuss some of the bs that goes on with some of the people who are getting close to retirement. there are tons of cases where these people get massive salary increases in teh last 5 years of employment, which results in a higher pension.

...
I think you are mistaking me for someone who is for tax increases. I am only for paying for the services you want provided to you... roads, police, fire, education, etc... The money has to come from somewhere.
I'm not trying to 'Spin' anything... I am simply pointing out the hysteria that media outlets and pundits are whipping up. They are spinning it in the direction of a 66% increase... which it is. It is also a total of 2 cents on the dollar. Both are true statements. But a tax hike of 66% gets more headlines and freaks out more Tea Partiers than 2 cents more per dollar.

TV loves to scream big numbers, but i think most people get it's 2% more of you salary. And most people can whip out a calculater and figure out it's costing them an extra $1,000 per year on average. I think we also know that pensions are going to be the death of government. I understnad there has to be a retirement plan, but full retirement @ 55 is way to generous when the common man has to work until 65 to get retirement money.

inmytree

81 wrote:

you can spin it anyway you want, but i'm going to see a hefty increase in my tax paid.

life long pensions for .gov employee's is a bunch of crap. if a 401k system is good enough for me, it's good enough for them.

we won't even discuss some of the bs that goes on with some of the people who are getting close to retirement. there are tons of cases where these people get massive salary increases in teh last 5 years of employment, which results in a higher pension.

why are you whining now...? why do you hate someone who has worked through their career and earned a pension and salary increases...?

to me you sound jealous...

and who cares what's "good enough for you"...maybe what's "good enough for you" is not good enough for others...

Prince Of Dorkness

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Shouldn't you boys pay for the 10 freeway between L.A. And Palm Springs!

don't be silly.

Gay guys take the 10 so we can pass through the cruising areas in the hills between Riverside and Banning. :twisted:

Prince Of Dorkness

Jason P wrote:

I like the training they provide to their workers but they are ruthless, use deplorable tactics, and will use any leverage they can to get their way.

Deplorable Tactics and any leverage to get their way. Sounds kinda like the new Governor in Wisconsin if you ask me. :twisted:

Prince Of Dorkness

inmytree wrote:

and who cares what's "good enough for you"...maybe what's "good enough for you" is not good enough for others...

yeah, that kinda bugged me, too.

Teachers need degrees and special training and they need to constantly get new skills and training as they go...

They need a few perks to attract good ones to work for your state. Education is important and if you want your state to have a good future you need good teachers.

That means you need to pay them well and give them the resources and things like pensions or they'll go work somewhere else.

and then your kids will be dumb. Ask people in Mississippi. :roll:

Jason P

Jasunmark wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I like the training they provide to their workers but they are ruthless, use deplorable tactics, and will use any leverage they can to get their way.

Deplorable Tactics and any leverage to get their way. Sounds kinda like the new Governor in Wisconsin if you ask me. :twisted:

Hence my reference of them getting a taste of their own medicine . But really, I don't know how the Teachers union operates first hand, I just deal with the eccentric trade unions.

Prince Of Dorkness

Jason P wrote:

Hence my reference of them getting a taste of their own medicine . But really, I don't know how the Teachers union operates first hand, I just deal with the eccentric trade unions.

I mean, my parents are in both the musician's union and the teacher's union at the university where they teach.

My mother was a part-time professor with a master's degree and she was paid under $8,000 per year... the notion that teachers are these pampered, over-paid lazy people who lay on the beach all day is just slander from the right.

81

life time retirement plans is where the BS starts and ends. sure, teachers have a hard job, but do they really desereve a lifetime retirement after 20 years? really?

as for pay, feel free to come down to IL. there are a number of long term teachers making 130K annual.

average is like 58K. get a summer job and work year round if that's not enough.

jg1988

patrickredeyes wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

patrickredeyes wrote:

It's about time they turn the tap off and make State workers pay like the rest of us.

Welcome to the Real World!!!

There is nothing to work out, the State of Wisconsin is broke and this is the only way. You can't give what you don't have. Thank you Gov. Walker for standing up and say NO!!!!

you would not have near the "buget crisis" you have now if your moronic governor did not cut taxes when he took office...and let's not forget he declined funds for the high speed rail that would have created jobs and put people to work....he is gonna get recalled.

Umm our last Gov. never said no to anything. He gave and gave money away until he left office. He tried passing that waste of a high speed rail bill threw at 2am so nobody would notice. Thank goodness that didn't go threw cause the amount of money it would have cost the state to run that high speed rail pr yr would be way too much. And we don't need high speed rail in Wisconsin at this time. Ask the people of the state most agree. I'm not a huge fan of Walker but he is doing what he said he would do. He's not raising taxes and turning off the tap. We can't be doing what we have been doing it's not working.

The teachers are upset cause this upsets their perfect lives. And yes I said perfect lives.....three months off in the summer and getting paid for it along with other paid days off during the year. Ohh and I wish I had a job where I knew once I retire at the young age of 55 I can get a nice pension for the rest of my life. And what's that you say the only thing I have to do in order to get that is pay a small amount towards it. Well sign me up for that yes please.
All that Walker is asking is for them to pay their share like the rest of us. It's only fair and about time.

Wasn't there also a study that showed a huge percentage of 8th graders cannot read at a "proficient level." This is also about accountability. As a union member I did not have to option to refuse enrollment. Unions are corrupt and do not protect anyone in the end. I also do not appreciate my dues going to PAC's that elect people who only employ the status quo. This mess in Wisconsin will only show the corruption on both ends.

Electric_Delta

Unions are the reason the auto industry in the United States failed. They are partly to blame for our trade imbalances, and they use thuggery to influence regional politics.

The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.

Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.

gimmesometruth27

actually a large part of why the auto industry failed is because the us automakers were making overpriced pieces of shit passed off as automobiles. i know i bought my acura because i had had several american cars over the last 15 years and i was tired of them breaking down or having problems like the fucking rear window wiper leaking into the car or windshield wipers not working. i never even considered an american car in january 2009 when i bought it. do not blame the workers, blame the shitty quality. the cars are better now since the companies went under and i would consider buying american again now.

but you are completely not recognizing what good unions have done. guaranteed fair wages for work performed would not have ever happened had there been no unions. the demand for safe and satisfactory working condition would not have happened without unions. set and fixed hours in a work day would not have happened without a union. employer offered health insurance and short or long term disability insurance, and workman's fucking compensation would never have happened if it were not for unions. also if there was a grievance among workers they would have been fired, now they show solidarity by striking to demand improvements. without unions the workers in this country would be much worse off than they already are.

Electric_Delta wrote:

Unions are the reason the auto industry in the United States failed. They are partly to blame for our trade imbalances, and they use thuggery to influence regional politics.

The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.

Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.

RW81233

somewhere uncle ronald reagan is seeing the ideological power of his moronic policies that have somehow convince the people that would benefit most from unionized labor to hate the thing that would help him...motherfucker. anyway i am a tenure-track assistant professor in maryland. i am in a very weak labor union, and get paid $55k for teaching 3 courses per semester, publishing 2-4 articles, presenting at 2-4 conferences, and performing various service activities each year (faculty liasion to the music society, asst. chair of the diversity committee, and so on....). I also either teach an extra course or a study abroad during the Winter Minimester for 3,500 dollars. For the past two years we've been forced to take 5 furlough days per year which essentially forced me to teach during the winter to make up for the pay that my signed contract said it would get. i routinely get some of the highest marks from students for my teaching, get recognized for my service, and publish as much if not more than other faculty members. at the same time i recognize that other faculty members do focus on other aspects of the job that i do not (while i do jack of all trades, others focus on other things fully). you can call this lazy, or that we get paid for only working 9 months, or whatever bullshit you want to say, but good teachers and professors jobs are never done. we answer emails, meet with parents, and so on during time that is supposed to be spent on other parts of our job or with our families. are all faculty very good, and deserving...no. but are they the pampered individuals you all are portraying us, not a chance in hell. go try to be a teacher for a year then come back and complain.

jg1988

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

actually a large part of why the auto industry failed is because the us automakers were making overpriced pieces of shit passed off as automobiles. i know i bought my acura because i had had several american cars over the last 15 years and i was tired of them breaking down or having problems like the fucking rear window wiper leaking into the car or windshield wipers not working. i never even considered an american car in january 2009 when i bought it. do not blame the workers, blame the shitty quality. the cars are better now since the companies went under and i would consider buying american again now.

but you are completely not recognizing what good unions have done. guaranteed fair wages for work performed would not have ever happened had there been no unions. the demand for safe and satisfactory working condition would not have happened without unions. set and fixed hours in a work day would not have happened without a union. employer offered health insurance and short or long term disability insurance, and workman's fucking compensation would never have happened if it were not for unions. also if there was a grievance among workers they would have been fired, now they show solidarity by striking to demand improvements. without unions the workers in this country would be much worse off than they already are.

Electric_Delta wrote:

Unions are the reason the auto industry in the United States failed. They are partly to blame for our trade imbalances, and they use thuggery to influence regional politics.

The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.

Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.

You give them a little too much credit...after all unions at the turn of the century were racist bigots who only advocated for the rights and opportunity of WASPs, not immigrants who were mostly anti-union. I think most of the credit goes to the slew of Progressive presidents starting with TR through Wilson who realized the importance of fair wages and workers rates in order to preserve the economic stability of America. Sure are supposed to serve as a vanguard from working abuse from the evils of capitalism, however unions operate under a totalitarian system where nobody is free to swat from their views. They cannot even guarantee wages and rights as seen in Wisconsin now...so what purpose do they really serve now besides bankrolling Democrats in political offices?

gimmesometruth27

^^^ i can guarantee you that governor walker is not raising a new generation of republicans. these people are going to remember what walker and the republicans did. i can see his point, but wisconsin is not in a dire financial crisis like he says they are. it would go a long way if he were to try to negotiate or at least listen to the people who are protesting, but his arrogance and his billionaire backers will not allow it.

Prince Of Dorkness

Electric_Delta wrote:

Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.

General Motors?

You mean that company that's been staffed by union workers and thrived for over 100 years? That General Motors?

The one that was almost ruined by bad management by non-union executives but saved by a bailout (that's been paid back) and the hard work of their union workers?

That General Motors?

Or was there another one I don't know about?

Pearl Jam_ie

If 88% of the working population is non-union and 12% is union, how is it that those 12% are the ones that are supposedly fucking everything up for our country?