Hence my reference of them getting a taste of their own medicine . But really, I don't know how the Teachers union operates first hand, I just deal with the eccentric trade unions.
I mean, my parents are in both the musician's union and the teacher's union at the university where they teach.
My mother was a part-time professor with a master's degree and she was paid under $8,000 per year... the notion that teachers are these pampered, over-paid lazy people who lay on the beach all day is just slander from the right.
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Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
life time retirement plans is where the BS starts and ends. sure, teachers have a hard job, but do they really desereve a lifetime retirement after 20 years? really?
as for pay, feel free to come down to IL. there are a number of long term teachers making 130K annual.
average is like 58K. get a summer job and work year round if that's not enough.
It's about time they turn the tap off and make State workers pay like the rest of us.
Welcome to the Real World!!!
There is nothing to work out, the State of Wisconsin is broke and this is the only way. You can't give what you don't have. Thank you Gov. Walker for standing up and say NO!!!!
you would not have near the "buget crisis" you have now if your moronic governor did not cut taxes when he took office...and let's not forget he declined funds for the high speed rail that would have created jobs and put people to work....he is gonna get recalled.
Umm our last Gov. never said no to anything. He gave and gave money away until he left office. He tried passing that waste of a high speed rail bill threw at 2am so nobody would notice. Thank goodness that didn't go threw cause the amount of money it would have cost the state to run that high speed rail pr yr would be way too much. And we don't need high speed rail in Wisconsin at this time. Ask the people of the state most agree. I'm not a huge fan of Walker but he is doing what he said he would do. He's not raising taxes and turning off the tap. We can't be doing what we have been doing it's not working.
The teachers are upset cause this upsets their perfect lives. And yes I said perfect lives.....three months off in the summer and getting paid for it along with other paid days off during the year. Ohh and I wish I had a job where I knew once I retire at the young age of 55 I can get a nice pension for the rest of my life. And what's that you say the only thing I have to do in order to get that is pay a small amount towards it. Well sign me up for that yes please.
All that Walker is asking is for them to pay their share like the rest of us. It's only fair and about time.
Wasn't there also a study that showed a huge percentage of 8th graders cannot read at a "proficient level." This is also about accountability. As a union member I did not have to option to refuse enrollment. Unions are corrupt and do not protect anyone in the end. I also do not appreciate my dues going to PAC's that elect people who only employ the status quo. This mess in Wisconsin will only show the corruption on both ends.
Unions are the reason the auto industry in the United States failed. They are partly to blame for our trade imbalances, and they use thuggery to influence regional politics.
The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.
Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.
actually a large part of why the auto industry failed is because the us automakers were making overpriced pieces of shit passed off as automobiles. i know i bought my acura because i had had several american cars over the last 15 years and i was tired of them breaking down or having problems like the fucking rear window wiper leaking into the car or windshield wipers not working. i never even considered an american car in january 2009 when i bought it. do not blame the workers, blame the shitty quality. the cars are better now since the companies went under and i would consider buying american again now.
but you are completely not recognizing what good unions have done. guaranteed fair wages for work performed would not have ever happened had there been no unions. the demand for safe and satisfactory working condition would not have happened without unions. set and fixed hours in a work day would not have happened without a union. employer offered health insurance and short or long term disability insurance, and workman's fucking compensation would never have happened if it were not for unions. also if there was a grievance among workers they would have been fired, now they show solidarity by striking to demand improvements. without unions the workers in this country would be much worse off than they already are.
Unions are the reason the auto industry in the United States failed. They are partly to blame for our trade imbalances, and they use thuggery to influence regional politics.
The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.
Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
somewhere uncle ronald reagan is seeing the ideological power of his moronic policies that have somehow convince the people that would benefit most from unionized labor to hate the thing that would help him...motherfucker. anyway i am a tenure-track assistant professor in maryland. i am in a very weak labor union, and get paid $55k for teaching 3 courses per semester, publishing 2-4 articles, presenting at 2-4 conferences, and performing various service activities each year (faculty liasion to the music society, asst. chair of the diversity committee, and so on....). I also either teach an extra course or a study abroad during the Winter Minimester for 3,500 dollars. For the past two years we've been forced to take 5 furlough days per year which essentially forced me to teach during the winter to make up for the pay that my signed contract said it would get. i routinely get some of the highest marks from students for my teaching, get recognized for my service, and publish as much if not more than other faculty members. at the same time i recognize that other faculty members do focus on other aspects of the job that i do not (while i do jack of all trades, others focus on other things fully). you can call this lazy, or that we get paid for only working 9 months, or whatever bullshit you want to say, but good teachers and professors jobs are never done. we answer emails, meet with parents, and so on during time that is supposed to be spent on other parts of our job or with our families. are all faculty very good, and deserving...no. but are they the pampered individuals you all are portraying us, not a chance in hell. go try to be a teacher for a year then come back and complain.
actually a large part of why the auto industry failed is because the us automakers were making overpriced pieces of shit passed off as automobiles. i know i bought my acura because i had had several american cars over the last 15 years and i was tired of them breaking down or having problems like the fucking rear window wiper leaking into the car or windshield wipers not working. i never even considered an american car in january 2009 when i bought it. do not blame the workers, blame the shitty quality. the cars are better now since the companies went under and i would consider buying american again now.
but you are completely not recognizing what good unions have done. guaranteed fair wages for work performed would not have ever happened had there been no unions. the demand for safe and satisfactory working condition would not have happened without unions. set and fixed hours in a work day would not have happened without a union. employer offered health insurance and short or long term disability insurance, and workman's fucking compensation would never have happened if it were not for unions. also if there was a grievance among workers they would have been fired, now they show solidarity by striking to demand improvements. without unions the workers in this country would be much worse off than they already are.
Unions are the reason the auto industry in the United States failed. They are partly to blame for our trade imbalances, and they use thuggery to influence regional politics.
The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.
Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.
You give them a little too much credit...after all unions at the turn of the century were racist bigots who only advocated for the rights and opportunity of WASPs, not immigrants who were mostly anti-union. I think most of the credit goes to the slew of Progressive presidents starting with TR through Wilson who realized the importance of fair wages and workers rates in order to preserve the economic stability of America. Sure are supposed to serve as a vanguard from working abuse from the evils of capitalism, however unions operate under a totalitarian system where nobody is free to swat from their views. They cannot even guarantee wages and rights as seen in Wisconsin now...so what purpose do they really serve now besides bankrolling Democrats in political offices?
^^^ i can guarantee you that governor walker is not raising a new generation of republicans. these people are going to remember what walker and the republicans did. i can see his point, but wisconsin is not in a dire financial crisis like he says they are. it would go a long way if he were to try to negotiate or at least listen to the people who are protesting, but his arrogance and his billionaire backers will not allow it.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.
General Motors?
You mean that company that's been staffed by union workers and thrived for over 100 years? That General Motors?
The one that was almost ruined by bad management by non-union executives but saved by a bailout (that's been paid back) and the hard work of their union workers?
If 88% of the working population is non-union and 12% is union, how is it that those 12% are the ones that are supposedly fucking everything up for our country?
"In certain trying circumstances...profanity furnishes a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain
while i agree with you...aren't like .1% of the country fucking it up for everyone else? the underlying point that you are making is that 12% holds similar amounts of power as the 88% of non-union laborers, yet those two factions are fighting. why don't we just hate the rich people who bend the rules to their favor at every turn?
If 88% of the working population is non-union and 12% is union, how is it that those 12% are the ones that are supposedly fucking everything up for our country?
This is all just about busting unions so Scott Walker can sell the public utilities to the Koch brothers. They will then lower the wages and quality of service through the floor, raise the prices through the ceilings.
you are absolutely correct...and being from maryland, where the public to private utilities has already happened, I can say even republicans here have agreed that privatizing utilities is stupid.
^^^ i can guarantee you that governor walker is not raising a new generation of republicans. these people are going to remember what walker and the republicans did. i can see his point, but wisconsin is not in a dire financial crisis like he says they are. it would go a long way if he were to try to negotiate or at least listen to the people who are protesting, but his arrogance and his billionaire backers will not allow it.
this is true, Reagan did this same type of thing to the steel workers and I think MN will never go republican because of it...hell we were the only state that didn't go reagan.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Unions have created a lot for the middle class. By doing so they made affected non union workers in a good way as well.
Unions have a substantial impact on the compensation and work lives of both unionized and non-unionized workers.
...
Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.
* Unions reduce wage inequality because they raise wages more for low- and middle-wage workers than for higher-wage workers, more for blue-collar than for white-collar workers, and more for workers who do not have a college degree.
* Strong unions set a pay standard that nonunion employers follow.
...
The most sweeping advantage for unionized workers is in fringe benefits.
- paid leave - health insurance - pension plans
...
Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave (vacations and holidays).
...
There is a more general mechanism ... in which unions have affected nonunion pay and practices:
unions have set norms and established practices that become more generalized throughout the economy, thereby improving pay and working conditions for the entire workforce.
This has been especially true for the 75% of workers who are not college educated.
Many "fringe" benefits, such as pensions and health insurance, were first provided in the union sector and then became more generalized -- though, as we have seen, not universal.
Union grievance procedures, which provide "due process" in the workplace, have been mimicked in many nonunion workplaces.
Union wage-setting, which has gained exposure through media coverage, has frequently established standards of what workers generally, including many nonunion workers, expect from their employers.
My personal problem with union workers is that they think they are untouchable and to fire a union worker is brutal. But if a union worker is not doing his job and received at least 3 written & verbal warnings it takes up to about 2 months for this worker not be employed by my company anymore. Then the union ships this individual off on somebody else through their job placement. The unions stick up for every one of their workers even though some of them are slugs and they know it. They need to weed out some of their lazy workers and create a more reputable work force. Cause the one they have now are just brutal. At least the ones that I come into contact with. I think this would help their name out a little more. Other than that I like the general idea of a union.
Comments
I mean, my parents are in both the musician's union and the teacher's union at the university where they teach.
My mother was a part-time professor with a master's degree and she was paid under $8,000 per year... the notion that teachers are these pampered, over-paid lazy people who lay on the beach all day is just slander from the right.
as for pay, feel free to come down to IL. there are a number of long term teachers making 130K annual.
average is like 58K. get a summer job and work year round if that's not enough.
Wasn't there also a study that showed a huge percentage of 8th graders cannot read at a "proficient level." This is also about accountability. As a union member I did not have to option to refuse enrollment. Unions are corrupt and do not protect anyone in the end. I also do not appreciate my dues going to PAC's that elect people who only employ the status quo. This mess in Wisconsin will only show the corruption on both ends.
The labor landscape of our country has changed radically since the 1920's and 1930's. I would say they are largely unnecessary at this point.
Their pension systems are ridiculously bloated and unsustainable. Ask General Motors.
but you are completely not recognizing what good unions have done. guaranteed fair wages for work performed would not have ever happened had there been no unions. the demand for safe and satisfactory working condition would not have happened without unions. set and fixed hours in a work day would not have happened without a union. employer offered health insurance and short or long term disability insurance, and workman's fucking compensation would never have happened if it were not for unions. also if there was a grievance among workers they would have been fired, now they show solidarity by striking to demand improvements. without unions the workers in this country would be much worse off than they already are.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
You give them a little too much credit...after all unions at the turn of the century were racist bigots who only advocated for the rights and opportunity of WASPs, not immigrants who were mostly anti-union. I think most of the credit goes to the slew of Progressive presidents starting with TR through Wilson who realized the importance of fair wages and workers rates in order to preserve the economic stability of America. Sure are supposed to serve as a vanguard from working abuse from the evils of capitalism, however unions operate under a totalitarian system where nobody is free to swat from their views. They cannot even guarantee wages and rights as seen in Wisconsin now...so what purpose do they really serve now besides bankrolling Democrats in political offices?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
General Motors?
You mean that company that's been staffed by union workers and thrived for over 100 years? That General Motors?
The one that was almost ruined by bad management by non-union executives but saved by a bailout (that's been paid back) and the hard work of their union workers?
That General Motors?
Or was there another one I don't know about?
This is all just about busting unions so Scott Walker can sell the public utilities to the Koch brothers. They will then lower the wages and quality of service through the floor, raise the prices through the ceilings.
It's got nothing to do with teacher pensions.
this is true, Reagan did this same type of thing to the steel workers and I think MN will never go republican because of it...hell we were the only state that didn't go reagan.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
also....i worked for koch ind, at one point. they are "shady" at best.
Unions have a substantial impact on the compensation and work lives of both unionized and non-unionized workers.
...
Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.
* Unions reduce wage inequality because they raise wages more for low- and middle-wage workers than for higher-wage workers, more for blue-collar than for white-collar workers, and more for workers who do not have a college degree.
* Strong unions set a pay standard that nonunion employers follow.
...
The most sweeping advantage for unionized workers is in fringe benefits.
- paid leave - health insurance - pension plans
...
Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave (vacations and holidays).
...
There is a more general mechanism ... in which unions have affected nonunion pay and practices:
unions have set norms and established practices that become more generalized throughout the economy, thereby improving pay and working conditions for the entire workforce.
This has been especially true for the 75% of workers who are not college educated.
Many "fringe" benefits, such as pensions and health insurance, were first provided in the union sector and then became more generalized -- though, as we have seen, not universal.
Union grievance procedures, which provide "due process" in the workplace, have been mimicked in many nonunion workplaces.
Union wage-setting, which has gained exposure through media coverage, has frequently established standards of what workers generally, including many nonunion workers, expect from their employers.