9 year old girl shot yesterday...

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Comments

  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Paul David wrote:
    bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.

    peace.

    You know you're talking to the guy who thinks bullying is a good character builder, right?
    Thumbs up for violence, everybody! :thumbup:
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    Paul David wrote:
    actually, no I wouldn't. Guns have no use in modern society. knives/sledgehammers/screwdrivers/etc do. I would absolutely not be asking for their ban if there were no guns. that's a ludicrous claim and you know it. that's like saying I think neckties shoud be banned because you could choke someone with them.

    saying you are not a responsible gun owner if you have an accident is ignorant. what you are effectively saying is that anyone who has a car accident is a bad driver, any person who has ever cut themselves is clumsy, anyone who's ever had a cold is a dirty germ-infested slime.

    if you are out hunting, and a rabbit runs up behind you and gets in your feet, you trip, your gun flies out of your hands and hits the ground, causing the safety to come off, goes off and hits one of your friends, you are not a responsible gun owner? that's called happenstance, my friend, not irresponsibility.

    Guns have plenty of use in modern society. Recreation, personal defense, and to protect us from our government. You would absolutely be here talking about banning knives if this poor girl was killed by a knife. If she was killed by a pipe bomb, you would be here talking about banning pipes. You just don’t realize it because TV hasn’t told you to do it yet.

    You are ignorant on gun safety. Guns accident and car accidents are completely apples and oranges. Someone else can cause you to have a car accident no matter how responsible and safe you are. If you follow your training, you will never have a gun accident.

    Do you really think that a rabbit would run up behind you and get near you? If it wasn’t afraid of you and did, it wouldn’t cause you to drop your gun. And you want me to take you seriously? That non sense aside…. Sure the safety thumb safety magically turned off in your scenario. But nothing loaded a round in to the chamber, nothing defeated the grip safety, and nothing pulled the trigger. Plus one of the rules of responsible gun ownership is to always point it in a safe direction, so it would most likely land pointed away from your friends.
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    Cosmo wrote:
    Doesn't that mean... you have to carry your gun with you 100% of the time? I mean, when you are with your family... watching 'Dancing With The Stars'... are you sitting there, eating popcorn with a loaded 9mm on your lap? Because, those criminals... are they going to let you go get your gun before they start raping and killing your family? And what about when you are sleeping? Are they going to wake you up and let you get your loaded gun before they start their crime spree?
    If so... you have you gun... loaded with a round chambered... in your house... all of the time... with kids around? Is that what being responsible means?
    No that is not what being responsible means, It means having an alarm system, deadbolts, etc.. The only way a criminal is going to get in my house is by force, and will have to use something to destroy the doors or windows, in which my alarm system will go off. That will give me ample time to get my gun, load it, and make sure my family is safe. I hope you post was sarcasim... If not I feel bad for you.
  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    MG79478 wrote:
    FACT: Responsible gun ownership DOES 100% prevent accidents. If you have an accident, you are not a responsible gun owner.

    I'm going to 100% disagree with this.
    At least what some people consider 'responsible'...
    If you own a gun, there is NO way possible that you can ensure 100% that there will never be an accident, no matter how responsible you are.

    You can lock the damn thing up in the closet and hide the key. But what if your house is robbed and the safe is stolen and hacked. Are you no longer a responsible gun owner, even though you've done everything that is usually considered 'responsible'?

    If the gun is stolen, you are not longer the gun owner, so your point is moot. The gun is just a tool. If someone steals it and does something irresponsible with it, they are obviously responsible for their own act.

    If I have it locked away so that it is innacessible to children, in a safe, cable lock, trigger lock, no ammo stored with it. It's pretty much impossible that anyone other than a thief would get in to it. If you follow the NRA rules to safe handling a guy, you can 100% assure you will never have an accident. I'm guess most of you anti-gun crowd have never been trained in human performance tools.
    nuffingman wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    nuffingman wrote:
    I have never in my life felt that I should have a gun to protect myself or my family. If you feel you need to in the States then it's a very sick place to be.
    Funny because the only place I have ever been robbed is outside of London at a "Little Chef".
    Did he have a gun?

    You won't like the answer regadless.

    If he didn't have a gun, it proves that there can be crime without a gun. Note that if I did have one, I wouldn't have been robbed.

    If he did have a gun, it proves that criminals can still get guns illegally and use them without fear knowing that the law abiding citizens are unarmed.
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    haffajappa wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.

    peace.

    You know you're talking to the guy who thinks bullying is a good character builder, right?
    Thumbs up for violence, everybody! :thumbup:
    haha, I said bullying is unavoidable as children aren't mature enough to handle emitions/differences, etc... In which it is a good character builder Ie standing up for your self, I see no issues with that. You are the one who classified setting someone on fire, assult, murder, as acts of bully. You streached the term bully into something that was a catch all to all crime done to someone. You also blames suicide on bullying... It seems our definitions on bullying differ and you see it as murder and i see it as calling names/making fun of. Thats fine, I am not for violence but at least I am not afraid to stand up for my self and teach my kids the same. Its the parents responsibility to stop bullying if it escalades into physical abuse. Your just mad that you can't stand up for yourself becase you afraid it might turn into something physical. I think the definition of that is a Pussy Bitch.
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    Paul David wrote:
    bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.

    peace.
    I agree with this, well said. No harm in disagreeing.
  • MoonpigMoonpig Posts: 659
    HeidiJam wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.

    peace.

    You know you're talking to the guy who thinks bullying is a good character builder, right?
    Thumbs up for violence, everybody! :thumbup:
    haha, I said bullying is unavoidable as children aren't mature enough to handle emitions/differences, etc... In which it is a good character builder Ie standing up for your self, I see no issues with that. You are the one who classified setting someone on fire, assult, murder, as acts of bully. You streached the term bully into something that was a catch all to all crime done to someone. You also blames suicide on bullying... It seems our definitions on bullying differ and you see it as murder and i see it as calling names/making fun of. Thats fine, I am not for violence but at least I am not afraid to stand up for my self and teach my kids the same. Its the parents responsibility to stop bullying if it escalades into physical abuse. Your just mad that you can't stand up for yourself becase you afraid it might turn into something physical. I think the definition of that is a Pussy Bitch.

    Ouch, have we really descended to this? Take a step back and catch your breath champ. I think a few of us have been guilty of stretching things to make our points - need I refer you to a previous post, of yours, about why we need guns to protect ourselves from someone breaking in, raping and murdering our families?? I'm not having a go, just just to show some perspective.
  • geez, the rabbit scenario was just a stupid for-instance. I guess I could have said a cougar, or your sister, or your buddy, or whatever. :roll:

    anyone that claims to know what I would say or do, even those who know me personally, are ignorant, and is really quite a telling trait of that person. I had a friend who was stabbed in the abdomen from a random attack. I never once said before or after that, that knives should be banned. Is that enough for you, wise guy??

    and no, the car accident analogy is not apples and oranges. you are correct. I AM ignorant on gun safety. But the point is you can never be 100 % in control of ANYTHING. I don't give a shit if it's a gun or a plane or an elephant running through your living room. You cannot sit there and say you can be 100% safe. It's a ludicrous assertion.

    Protect us from our government? Paranoid much? :lol:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Guns have plenty of use in modern society. Recreation, personal defense, and to protect us from our government. You would absolutely be here talking about banning knives if this poor girl was killed by a knife. If she was killed by a pipe bomb, you would be here talking about banning pipes. You just don’t realize it because TV hasn’t told you to do it yet.

    You are ignorant on gun safety. Guns accident and car accidents are completely apples and oranges. Someone else can cause you to have a car accident no matter how responsible and safe you are. If you follow your training, you will never have a gun accident.

    Do you really think that a rabbit would run up behind you and get near you? If it wasn’t afraid of you and did, it wouldn’t cause you to drop your gun. And you want me to take you seriously? That non sense aside…. Sure the safety thumb safety magically turned off in your scenario. But nothing loaded a round in to the chamber, nothing defeated the grip safety, and nothing pulled the trigger. Plus one of the rules of responsible gun ownership is to always point it in a safe direction, so it would most likely land pointed away from your friends.
    Gimli 1993
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    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Just so that people remember, This 9 year old girl is dead. :cry: She wasn't breaking into a house or trying to rape and kill anyone.

    People are right guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. The reason that people talk about guns is due to the fact that they can commit more crimes in a shorter amount of time. if this guy had a knife he wouldn't have killed that many people

    Peace be to the girl and all victims of crime anywhere in the world.
  • AllNiteThingAllNiteThing Posts: 1,115
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Moonpig wrote:

    wow, you are really stretching to try and make that point. Violent crime is not something which is exclusive to America, and we can play the what if game until we are all blue in the face, perhaps already there. Fact is, gun ownership in the states has done nothing to deter criminals, and if anything, has caused more harm to the citizenry.

    In my opinion, for what it's worth, it is by far and away the most backward aspect of America. What good has it done, I don't own a gun, nor do any of my family or friends, we're all still here, the world hasn't ended. But then it must be said, if my friends and family were exposed to the sheer level of dangerous, bigoted, biased propaganda costumed as media, then yeah I guess I'd be scared shitless enough to think they (the Muslims, or Chinese, or Commies, or Liberals, or Killer Bees, or Mexicans etc etc etc...) were coming to rape and kill my family.
    Why do you just make up shit... Fact is that gun ownership have deter criminals. Look at my first post in this thread. The one with all the facts and stats. No one other than me has posted a single facts. So shut the fuck up and quit making shit up.

    Fact: Gun owners are on average, angrier than non gun owners.
    24 years old, mid-life crisis
    nowadays hits you when you're young
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Moonpig wrote:

    wow, you are really stretching to try and make that point. Violent crime is not something which is exclusive to America, and we can play the what if game until we are all blue in the face, perhaps already there. Fact is, gun ownership in the states has done nothing to deter criminals, and if anything, has caused more harm to the citizenry.

    In my opinion, for what it's worth, it is by far and away the most backward aspect of America. What good has it done, I don't own a gun, nor do any of my family or friends, we're all still here, the world hasn't ended. But then it must be said, if my friends and family were exposed to the sheer level of dangerous, bigoted, biased propaganda costumed as media, then yeah I guess I'd be scared shitless enough to think they (the Muslims, or Chinese, or Commies, or Liberals, or Killer Bees, or Mexicans etc etc etc...) were coming to rape and kill my family.
    Why do you just make up shit... Fact is that gun ownership have deter criminals. Look at my first post in this thread. The one with all the facts and stats. No one other than me has posted a single facts. So shut the fuck up and quit making shit up.

    Fact: Gun owners are on average, angrier than non gun owners.
    Fact: Your opinion not fact.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    MG79478 wrote:
    dunkman wrote:
    i'm using other peoples views as a platform for my views on gun control... i have no political ideology by the way... you live in a country with only 2 opposing political parties... thats not healthy for a start... but my views on gun control come from common sense NOT political.

    and yes i do agree with the OP... its perhaps time to look at your laws... people are continually dying... thats empathy because a 9 year old girl was murdered and people are trying to look into a way to sort the problem... all people like you are doing is standing chest out, waving flags and beating the same old drum about rights and freedoms...

    go and find the parents of this kid and stand on their doorstep and say "hey i just wanted to say its a shame about your little girl but listen to this... FACT: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times- more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds. NOW do you feel better? Your little girl is dead but at least we have a dubious statistic which claims we are safer in our homes because we can shoot people trying to steal our Xboxes"
    Yes, because it’s common sense to disarm the law abiding citizens. Do you know what happens when a government disarms law abiding citizens? The bad guys keep their guns, and their job just got easier. Do you understand why our founding fathers put it in our constitution that we have the right to bear arms? I really don’t think you do.

    Hypothetically, if there were no guns. This guy would have used a bomb. More people would have died. That’s brilliant!

    So you would rather that 6,500 people a day use a butter knife to defend themselves against criminals
    you might be right, if this guy didn't have a gun he might have used a bomb so from now on i say everyone should be allowed to carry bombs around. how does that sound.
  • fife wrote:
    Just so that people remember, This 9 year old girl is dead. :cry: She wasn't breaking into a house or trying to rape and kill anyone.

    People are right guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. The reason that people talk about guns is due to the fact that they can commit more crimes in a shorter amount of time. if this guy had a knife he wouldn't have killed that many people

    Peace be to the girl and all victims of crime anywhere in the world.

    I think this is correct, we should take all this to the guns and bullets thread. peace to that little girl. :cry:
    Gimli 1993
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  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    Paul David wrote:
    anyone that claims to know what I would say or do, even those who know me personally, are ignorant, and is really quite a telling trait of that person.
    Your type isn’t hard to figure out; you are part of the flock of sheep. You are all the same. If you can have the beliefs that you have, the rest is pretty easy to figure out. It’s really quite ironic that you say that I can’t know you, but somehow you know me.
    Paul David wrote:
    I had a friend who was stabbed in the abdomen from a random attack. I never once said before or after that, that knives should be banned. Is that enough for you, wise guy??
    Ah the internet, where you can make up stories and no one will ever be the wiser. But you do relize that your made up story is pointless, because there are still guns. Why in the world would you go after knives when you have to take down guns first? Once the rest of your herd takes care of guns, then you can follow them on the knives.

    Maybe if your friend had a gun, he wouldn’t have gotten stabbed?
    Paul David wrote:
    and no, the car accident analogy is not apples and oranges.
    You make a great argument and supply lots of supporting facts, I completely agree… Sheesh!
    Paul David wrote:
    you are correct. I AM ignorant on gun safety. But the point is you can never be 100 % in control of ANYTHING. I don't give a shit if it's a gun or a plane or an elephant running through your living room. You cannot sit there and say you can be 100% safe. It's a ludicrous assertion.
    I’m sorry that you are not in 100% control of your life, I’m guessing that is because you want and let the government control it for you. It’s really quite sad. I’m actually really quite glad you are such anti gun nutjob. Because we don’t want you to have one. You scare those of us who are in 100% control of our guns. I type this on a keyboard that I am in 100% control of, hitting submit on a mouse that I am 100% in control of.
    Paul David wrote:
    Protect us from our government? Paranoid much? :lol:
    Typical response you sheep give. You don’t study history much… I suggest you do before it repeats. Start with WW2, the first thing Hitler and his leftist buddies did was exercise more government control by taking away all guns. Have you ever studied the constitution? You do know that the second amendment was put in so that the government feared the people. The people are supposed to have the power.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    MG79478 wrote:
    Guns have plenty of use in modern society. Recreation, personal defense, and to protect us from our government.

    how would you use a gun to protect you from your government?
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    fife wrote:
    you might be right, if this guy didn't have a gun he might have used a bomb so from now on i say everyone should be allowed to carry bombs around. how does that sound.

    It's completely ridiculous. It doesn't matter what tool this guy used, he was the problem, not the tool he used.

    Also, a gun is a tool with many safe uses for a common person. A bomb is an tool of destruction that has no safe uses for a common person. (granted explosions could be used by professionals to demolish a building.)
    dunkman wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Guns have plenty of use in modern society. Recreation, personal defense, and to protect us from our government.

    how would you use a gun to protect you from your government?

    For the exact reason the second amendment was put in to the constitution. Our founding fathers just broke away form an oppressive government, and wanted to ensure that our government never turned in to that. If the citizens are not armed, they are helpless. If they are armed, the could rise up, and the government must fear and respect them. History has many examples of a dictator taking away guns as his first priority. Then the people of that country are helpless.
  • because back in the Revolutionary period in the late 1700's the people feared tyranny and corruption of the government, so they decided that arming themselves to protect themselves against politicians made sense.

    and people still use this argument for today's justification of bearing arms. it's ludicrous. if you think owning a handgun will protect you against today's US military, good luck to you sir. :lol:

    dunkman wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Guns have plenty of use in modern society. Recreation, personal defense, and to protect us from our government.

    how would you use a gun to protect you from your government?
    Gimli 1993
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  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    MG79478 wrote:
    For the exact reason the second amendment was put in to the constitution. Our founding fathers just broke away form an oppressive government, and wanted to ensure that our government never turned in to that. If the citizens are not armed, they are helpless. If they are armed, the could rise up, and the government must fear and respect them. History has many examples of a dictator taking away guns as his first priority. Then the people of that country are helpless.


    never ever going to happen... never ever. this is not Call of Duty you live in.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Paul David wrote:
    because back in the Revolutionary period in the late 1700's the people feared tyranny and corruption of the government, so they decided that arming themselves to protect themselves against politicians made sense.

    and people still use this argument for today's justification of bearing arms. it's ludicrous. if you think owning a handgun will protect you against today's US military, good luck to you sir. :lol:

    dunkman wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Guns have plenty of use in modern society. Recreation, personal defense, and to protect us from our government.

    how would you use a gun to protect you from your government?

    it is indeed ludicrous... I'd bet that this 'militia' if it were ever formed would shit themselves inside out if they ever saw an advancing infantry movement coming toward them...

    truly laughable. :lol::lol:
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • MG79478 wrote:
    Also, a gun is a tool with many safe uses for a common person. A bomb is an tool of destruction that has no safe uses for a common person. (granted explosions could be used by professionals to demolish a building.)

    homer simpson also thought this.he used it to open cans of beer, getting toys off the roof, etc. :lol:

    The_Simpsons_5F01.png
    Gimli 1993
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  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    Paul David wrote:
    because back in the Revolutionary period in the late 1700's the people feared tyranny and corruption of the government, so they decided that arming themselves to protect themselves against politicians made sense.

    and people still use this argument for today's justification of bearing arms. it's ludicrous. if you think owning a handgun will protect you against today's US military, good luck to you sir. :lol:

    So you are saying that the government is not corrupt and full of tyrants these days?

    The size of the US military, is just a small fraction of the total population. Oh, and why would you assume that they would stay loyal to the government.
    dunkman wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    never ever going to happen... never ever. this is not Call of Duty you live in.

    Funny, they thought the same thing in Germany in the 1930s.
  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    Paul David wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Also, a gun is a tool with many safe uses for a common person. A bomb is an tool of destruction that has no safe uses for a common person. (granted explosions could be used by professionals to demolish a building.)

    homer simpson also thought this.he used it to open cans of beer, getting toys off the roof, etc. :lol:

    The_Simpsons_5F01.png

    Well now you've convinced me. The source of your information is the self proclaimed most liberal show on TV. I completely agree with all of your points.
  • I'm not saying the government is not corrupt. Probably moreso than when the country was born. But to actually use that as your justification for having a gun is laughable. Sorry, dude, but it really is.
    MG79478 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    because back in the Revolutionary period in the late 1700's the people feared tyranny and corruption of the government, so they decided that arming themselves to protect themselves against politicians made sense.

    and people still use this argument for today's justification of bearing arms. it's ludicrous. if you think owning a handgun will protect you against today's US military, good luck to you sir. :lol:

    So you are saying that the government is not corrupt and full of tyrants these days?

    The size of the US military, is just a small fraction of the total population. Oh, and why would you assume that they would stay loyal to the government.
    dunkman wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    never ever going to happen... never ever. this is not Call of Duty you live in.

    Funny, they thought the same thing in Germany in the 1930s.
    Gimli 1993
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  • have you ever laughed before?
    MG79478 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Also, a gun is a tool with many safe uses for a common person. A bomb is an tool of destruction that has no safe uses for a common person. (granted explosions could be used by professionals to demolish a building.)

    homer simpson also thought this.he used it to open cans of beer, getting toys off the roof, etc. :lol:

    The_Simpsons_5F01.png

    Well now you've convinced me. The source of your information is the self proclaimed most liberal show on TV. I completely agree with all of your points.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    Paul David wrote:
    have you ever laughed before?

    you probably wouldn't beleive it, but that is one of my favorite all time episodes (speed cocker.... like the sounds of that). But a 9 year old girl is dead, people are trying to use it to push gun control, which would only make the problem worse. This is not the time to laugh.
  • MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,674
    Paul David wrote:
    I'm not saying the government is not corrupt. Probably moreso than when the country was born. But to actually use that as your justification for having a gun is laughable. Sorry, dude, but it really is.

    It's laughable that you think that is the ONLY reason someone would own a gun. It's just one of many. It's more of just a secondary benefit.
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    dunkman wrote:

    it is indeed ludicrous... I'd bet that this 'militia' if it were ever formed would shit themselves inside out if they ever saw an advancing infantry movement coming toward them...

    truly laughable. :lol::lol:
    Whats more laughable is you bending over for your Government.
  • and I would argue people are trying to use it to push gun ownership.
    MG79478 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    have you ever laughed before?

    you probably wouldn't beleive it, but that is one of my favorite all time episodes (speed cocker.... like the sounds of that). But a 9 year old girl is dead, people are trying to use it to push gun control, which would only make the problem worse. This is not the time to laugh.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • MoonpigMoonpig Posts: 659
    HeidiJam wrote:
    dunkman wrote:

    it is indeed ludicrous... I'd bet that this 'militia' if it were ever formed would shit themselves inside out if they ever saw an advancing infantry movement coming toward them...

    truly laughable. :lol::lol:
    Whats more laughable is you bending over for your Government.

    Actually that is pretty funny. That you are resorting to this level of "debate" is hilarious. Never let logic get in the way of a good old emotive rant
  • this is why I suggested we move over the the other thread. :roll:
    MG79478 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    have you ever laughed before?

    you probably wouldn't beleive it, but that is one of my favorite all time episodes (speed cocker.... like the sounds of that). But a 9 year old girl is dead, people are trying to use it to push gun control, which would only make the problem worse. This is not the time to laugh.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
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