This was in my news paper today...
If guns kill people, Then cars drive drunk, pencils misspell words, and spoons made Opra fat!
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
if guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk and spoons make people fat. :P
did you copy and past that tired expression from another site?
yep.
copied and pasted this too from a article about the gun show going on in Vegas now. I will never give up my guns and i am not a gun lover. I have guns because i need them. For some, the right to bear arms represents a more personal battle.
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."
If somebody is going to kill someone they will do it regardless of weather there are guns or not. Some of you need to think logically instead of what your parties views are.
don't insult people with this "I disagree with you, therefore you are an unthinking liberal sheep". it hurts your credibility.
I disagree, unless you are talking about pre-meditated murder. In those cases, yes, they would find any means necessary in many cases, gun or not.
However, people kill people more easily with guns than with a more blunt instrument or nothing at all. you can't tell me that isn't fact.
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St. Paul 2014
I have been to numerous training courses and hold a ccw from Nevada and Florida. This gives me reciprocity in most of the country. Often, in the very begining of class an instructor will ask "If your home is being invaded by a criminal and you have a shot at the perp, do you shoot them in the leg or go for a lethal shot". Turns out many people say they would go for the leg. WRONG ANSWER. A dead person doesn't lie. If you ever point your gun at ANYTHING, you should intend on destroying your target.
I have been to numerous training courses and hold a ccw from Nevada and Florida. This gives me reciprocity in most of the country. Often, in the very begining of class an instructor will ask "If your home is being invaded by a criminal and you have a shot at the perp, do you shoot them in the leg or go for a lethal shot". Turns out many people say they would go for the leg. WRONG ANSWER. A dead person doesn't lie. If you ever point your gun at ANYTHING, you should intend on destroying your target.
...
That is what I think most people don't understand... pointing your weapon means you must be willing to pull the trigger. In most cases, the ones who will brandish a gun are pussies.
I have personally never seen it... but, I had a friend in High School whose dad shot himself in the head in his house. It leaves a big fucking mess. He said he couldn't believe how much blood there was.
Oh... and the cops and fire department don't clean up the mess before they leave.
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This was in my news paper today...
If guns kill people, Then cars drive drunk, pencils misspell words, and spoons made Opra fat!
your newspaper can't spell Oprah properly so their funny 'argument' holds less water than an incontinent moth.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]
I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
If you shoot someone attacking you, they'll most likely just sue you in the end anyways.
(The other thing Americans seem to love to do)
Ex Special Forces, cop guy I know says that if you re going to shoot someone, make sure you kill them, so there is no their word against yours in court.
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If you shoot someone attacking you, they'll most likely just sue you in the end anyways.
(The other thing Americans seem to love to do)
Dude, in almost every post I have seen you make, you make some snide remark agains american's/america... Why is that? Its extremely sad that you base everything in generalizations and nationality, WE are all humans and we should be working together, not trying to seperate our selves by country/sex/race/nation...
Why not try and make an intelligent post without making fun of american's...
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]
I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"
If you can't detect the difference between her and a criminal, then there is a reason we are at page 29... She said that because she was raped and she feared for her life. Are you saying you would not try and kill someone who was trying to rape you or your wife??? There is a difference between killing for self protection and killing because you are a mentally unstable criminal. A criminal who is going to break the law, and intends on killing someone will do it weather they have a gun or a bat. Not some law-abiding citizen who was raped... How far can you guys streatch this to reach your point???
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]
I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"
If you can't detect the difference between her and a criminal, then there is a reason we are at page 29... She said that because she was raped and she feared for her life. Are you saying you would not try and kill someone who was trying to rape you or your wife??? There is a difference between killing for self protection and killing because you are a mentally unstable criminal. A criminal who is going to break the law, and intends on killing someone will do it weather they have a gun or a bat. Not some law-abiding citizen who was raped... How far can you guys streatch this to reach your point???
I cant speak for Dunk, but I saw his post as sarcasm. The whole "they will find a way to kill" argument is speculative and really is an easy way to dodge the fact that there is a problem.
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]
I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"
If you can't detect the difference between her and a criminal, then there is a reason we are at page 29... She said that because she was raped and she feared for her life. Are you saying you would not try and kill someone who was trying to rape you or your wife??? There is a difference between killing for self protection and killing because you are a mentally unstable criminal.A criminal who is going to break the law, and intends on killing someone will do it weather they have a gun or a bat. Not some law-abiding citizen who was raped... How far can you guys streatch this to reach your point???
I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...
hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...
hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?
hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...
I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...
hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?
hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...
you didnt answer the question... how far would he have got with just a bat? don't answer my question with a question.
look i know this is hard for you... but imagine that he was intent on crime and murder but that he didnt have a gun, instead he had a bat... and imagine that no other people on that campus had a gun either... how far would he have got... seeing as how you guys insist that "he would have just used something else".. if he had no guns what else could he have used to kill 32 people? a bat? a bat with nails on it? a bat with nails that have been dipped into poison on it?
all you are doing is taking a horrific story and using it as an example of justification to carry guns, without accepting that the ease in which that moron got a fucking gun was the actual problem... well that and his obvious mentalness... see we have mental people here in Britain as well... but getting a gun here in the UK is about as hard as getting an American to be objective and truthful about the ease in which they kill each other with legally acquired guns... yes, its that hard!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...
hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?
hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...
you didnt answer the question... how far would he have got with just a bat? don't answer my question with a question.
look i know this is hard for you... but imagine that he was intent on crime and murder but that he didnt have a gun, instead he had a bat... and imagine that no other people on that campus had a gun either... how far would he have got... seeing as how you guys insist that "he would have just used something else".. if he had no guns what else could he have used to kill 32 people? a bat? a bat with nails on it? a bat with nails that have been dipped into poison on it?
all you are doing is taking a horrific story and using it as an example of justification to carry guns, without accepting that the ease in which that moron got a fucking gun was the actual problem... well that and his obvious mentalness... see we have mental people here in Britain as well... but getting a gun here in the UK is about as hard as getting an American to be objective and truthful about the ease in which they kill each other with legally acquired guns... yes, its that hard!
here's the thing, he would have gotten the guns anyway. Whether legally or illegally, it is easy to get them...it just would have been a little more expensive. You cannot use this guy as an example and then ignore the fact that no other people around him were allowed legally to carry weapons as an example of how bad guns can be. Especially if you are dealing in hypotheticals....why don't you ask, how far would he have gotten with a bat that had railroad ties jammed through it, or how far would he have gotten with a bull whip with broken glass attached to it, or how far would he have gotten with a bow and arrow with exploding tips like Rambo... hypotheticals are just that, so someone coming back at you with one is perfectly acceptable.
Do we kill each other here at an alarming rate...the answer to that is obviously yes, but the answer to the reason why isn't simply the legality of guns, as pointed out earlier, Vermont is one of the most lax gun states in the union with an almost zero murder rate.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Do we kill each other here at an alarming rate...the answer to that is obviously yes, but the answer to the reason why isn't simply the legality of guns, as pointed out earlier, Vermont is one of the most lax gun states in the union with an almost zero murder rate.
then the biggest reason for the huge scale of mass shootings in the States is what? you have more people with mental issues than anywhere else? Cos if it's not the legality of guns and it's not the lax gun laws and if "guns don't kill people, people do" then why is this? are you suggesting that the US has a much higher amount of people with mental disorders than every other nation in the world?
Cos we have mental people here... quite a lot of them actually... but what we don't have is the ability to reach behind our sofas and pull out a lethal handgun and shoot our employers after a bad day at the office.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
One thing that stuck with me while reading this thread again was the notion of "killing for self protection". Maybe I'm incredibly naive in thinking that self protection shouldn't make you a killer. Pepper spray was mentioned, you'd think that would be enough. Especially with all the comments about making sure that if you shoot someone, they die and don't stick around lying about what happened. :? Anyway, just writing out some of my thoughts.
hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...
It's been mentioned here before that no mass-shootings have been prevented or cut short by someone carrying a weapon on them. (Except a security guard sort of person (?), I forget the details, but they were not a civilian.)
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
Do we kill each other here at an alarming rate...the answer to that is obviously yes, but the answer to the reason why isn't simply the legality of guns, as pointed out earlier, Vermont is one of the most lax gun states in the union with an almost zero murder rate.
then the biggest reason for the huge scale of mass shootings in the States is what? you have more people with mental issues than anywhere else? Cos if it's not the legality of guns and it's not the lax gun laws and if "guns don't kill people, people do" then why is this? are you suggesting that the US has a much higher amount of people with mental disorders than every other nation in the world?
I would say yes...
also, later in the article it talks about the untreated mental illnesses in developed countries...if the number is that high, and we have the highest rates of mental illness, put that together with a huge population and you get massive amounts of people with mental illness.
You cannot simply blame guns. That is too easy. And quite frankly I don't want to live in a country where everything we are allowed to do is based on what the vast minority of people cannot handle. Hopefully that makes sense to you as I am not sure how to write it a different way. An example being alcohol. I wouldn't want alcohol illegal because some people cannot handle it. I wouldn't want driving to be illegal because some people cannot handle it, I wouldn't want gardening to be illegal because some people use fertilizer to create bombs, I wouldn't want ....I could go on for days. But the fact is, these things happen, and if all we do is focus on the tools the mass murderers use we will never solve the problem of why they were driven to mass murder in the first place.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
One thing that stuck with me while reading this thread again was the notion of "killing for self protection". Maybe I'm incredibly naive in thinking that self protection shouldn't make you a killer. Pepper spray was mentioned, you'd think that would be enough. Especially with all the comments about making sure that if you shoot someone, they die and don't stick around lying about what happened. :? Anyway, just writing out some of my thoughts.
hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...
It's been mentioned here before that no mass-shootings have been prevented or cut short by someone carrying a weapon on them. (Except a security guard sort of person (?), I forget the details, but they were not a civilian.)
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
there have been several documented cases where police pepper spray someone in a rage and it doesn't work.
cattle prods?
there have been several documented cases where a person tried to kill more than 6 people with a bat and it doesnt work
p.s. your quoting and then writing above the quotes is highly annoying.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
not really Paul David... not really.. it was actually more annoying... so annoying in fact that i shot my computer out of anger and frustration.
which brings me to quite a funny point actually... my wife and I watched a documentary on the Columbine killers last weekend... and on it one of the killers journals was read out and it was about how he didnt have a girlfriend or love... and then the narrator said "... and both Klebold and Harris died as virgins" ... and then my wife just said to me "all those boys needed was a good shagging"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."
Wouldn't pepper spray be a better idea?
This is the most recommended means of defense for women. Pepper spray or similar, can be held in the hand, out in the open, with no problems. When attacked, the majority of women are approach from behind, usually with an arm around the neck and the assailant stopping the victims arms flying about to avoid being hit. The woman has little chance of reaching wherever for her gun should she have one. Also, womens clothes are not conducive to carrying a concealed weapon and, in general, those carrying will have their gun in a bag. Again, not handy to just 'pop out' for defense. Naturally, these statements are for a majority. Some ladies do have holsters, etc. The focus is the approach of the assailant.
why are we talking about bats? I'd think if a person wanted to kill someone or a group of people the next choice would be a bomb. Perhaps a crossbow. Maybe a sword. You could kill lots o' people with those weapons among many others that aren't as harmless as a large stick. Unless we're talking about regressing to being neanderthals automatically once guns are made illegal? I'm confused. :?
But it doesn't matter... the argument should be about our civil right to carry guns and not allowing the government to decide how they can best keep us safe. No thanks.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
why are we talking about bats? I'd think if a person wanted to kill someone or a group of people the next choice would be a bomb. Perhaps a crossbow. Maybe a sword. You could kill lots o' people with those weapons among many others that aren't as harmless as a large stick. Unless we're talking about regressing to being neanderthals automatically once guns are made illegal? I'm confused. :?
But it doesn't matter... the argument should be about our civil right to carry guns and not allowing the government to decide how they can best keep us safe. No thanks.
Agreed. What if however was as a society voted on these bans?
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why are we talking about bats? I'd think if a person wanted to kill someone or a group of people the next choice would be a bomb. Perhaps a crossbow. Maybe a sword. You could kill lots o' people with those weapons among many others that aren't as harmless as a large stick. Unless we're talking about regressing to being neanderthals automatically once guns are made illegal? I'm confused. :?
But it doesn't matter... the argument should be about our civil right to carry guns and not allowing the government to decide how they can best keep us safe. No thanks.
Agreed. What if however was as a society voted on these bans?
Well, I have a problem with external interference even if a majority of people think I should be restrained or coerced. My own goals, self-reliance, and liberty are superior to any institution, society, or government. Maybe that makes me an anarchist, but so be it. Regardless, I can't imagine that if put to a vote, people would vote for the government waging war, costing BILLIONS of our dollars, against its own citizens. And it would be war - many people who own guns would fight to the death to keep them.
The irony here is that I don't own guns.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I don't own a gun either....irony, I don't know...
Seems to me, it is about protecting our rights, that is the basis to this debate.
How strongly some of us, even those who choose not to own a gun,
feel about keeping the right to own a gun if one so chooses.
Comments
If guns kill people, Then cars drive drunk, pencils misspell words, and spoons made Opra fat!
yep.
copied and pasted this too from a article about the gun show going on in Vegas now. I will never give up my guns and i am not a gun lover. I have guns because i need them.
For some, the right to bear arms represents a more personal battle.
Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.
"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."
don't insult people with this "I disagree with you, therefore you are an unthinking liberal sheep". it hurts your credibility.
I disagree, unless you are talking about pre-meditated murder. In those cases, yes, they would find any means necessary in many cases, gun or not.
However, people kill people more easily with guns than with a more blunt instrument or nothing at all. you can't tell me that isn't fact.
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(The other thing Americans seem to love to do)
That is what I think most people don't understand... pointing your weapon means you must be willing to pull the trigger. In most cases, the ones who will brandish a gun are pussies.
I have personally never seen it... but, I had a friend in High School whose dad shot himself in the head in his house. It leaves a big fucking mess. He said he couldn't believe how much blood there was.
Oh... and the cops and fire department don't clean up the mess before they leave.
Hail, Hail!!!
your newspaper can't spell Oprah properly so their funny 'argument' holds less water than an incontinent moth.
I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"
Ex Special Forces, cop guy I know says that if you re going to shoot someone, make sure you kill them, so there is no their word against yours in court.
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Why not try and make an intelligent post without making fun of american's...
I cant speak for Dunk, but I saw his post as sarcasm. The whole "they will find a way to kill" argument is speculative and really is an easy way to dodge the fact that there is a problem.
I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...
hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?
you didnt answer the question... how far would he have got with just a bat? don't answer my question with a question.
look i know this is hard for you... but imagine that he was intent on crime and murder but that he didnt have a gun, instead he had a bat... and imagine that no other people on that campus had a gun either... how far would he have got... seeing as how you guys insist that "he would have just used something else".. if he had no guns what else could he have used to kill 32 people? a bat? a bat with nails on it? a bat with nails that have been dipped into poison on it?
all you are doing is taking a horrific story and using it as an example of justification to carry guns, without accepting that the ease in which that moron got a fucking gun was the actual problem... well that and his obvious mentalness... see we have mental people here in Britain as well... but getting a gun here in the UK is about as hard as getting an American to be objective and truthful about the ease in which they kill each other with legally acquired guns... yes, its that hard!
here's the thing, he would have gotten the guns anyway. Whether legally or illegally, it is easy to get them...it just would have been a little more expensive. You cannot use this guy as an example and then ignore the fact that no other people around him were allowed legally to carry weapons as an example of how bad guns can be. Especially if you are dealing in hypotheticals....why don't you ask, how far would he have gotten with a bat that had railroad ties jammed through it, or how far would he have gotten with a bull whip with broken glass attached to it, or how far would he have gotten with a bow and arrow with exploding tips like Rambo... hypotheticals are just that, so someone coming back at you with one is perfectly acceptable.
Do we kill each other here at an alarming rate...the answer to that is obviously yes, but the answer to the reason why isn't simply the legality of guns, as pointed out earlier, Vermont is one of the most lax gun states in the union with an almost zero murder rate.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
then the biggest reason for the huge scale of mass shootings in the States is what? you have more people with mental issues than anywhere else? Cos if it's not the legality of guns and it's not the lax gun laws and if "guns don't kill people, people do" then why is this? are you suggesting that the US has a much higher amount of people with mental disorders than every other nation in the world?
Cos we have mental people here... quite a lot of them actually... but what we don't have is the ability to reach behind our sofas and pull out a lethal handgun and shoot our employers after a bad day at the office.
It's been mentioned here before that no mass-shootings have been prevented or cut short by someone carrying a weapon on them. (Except a security guard sort of person (?), I forget the details, but they were not a civilian.)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5111202/ns/ ... al_health/
I would say yes...
also, later in the article it talks about the untreated mental illnesses in developed countries...if the number is that high, and we have the highest rates of mental illness, put that together with a huge population and you get massive amounts of people with mental illness.
You cannot simply blame guns. That is too easy. And quite frankly I don't want to live in a country where everything we are allowed to do is based on what the vast minority of people cannot handle. Hopefully that makes sense to you as I am not sure how to write it a different way. An example being alcohol. I wouldn't want alcohol illegal because some people cannot handle it. I wouldn't want driving to be illegal because some people cannot handle it, I wouldn't want gardening to be illegal because some people use fertilizer to create bombs, I wouldn't want ....I could go on for days. But the fact is, these things happen, and if all we do is focus on the tools the mass murderers use we will never solve the problem of why they were driven to mass murder in the first place.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
cattle prods?
there have been several documented cases where a person tried to kill more than 6 people with a bat and it doesnt work
p.s. your quoting and then writing above the quotes is highly annoying.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
which brings me to quite a funny point actually... my wife and I watched a documentary on the Columbine killers last weekend... and on it one of the killers journals was read out and it was about how he didnt have a girlfriend or love... and then the narrator said "... and both Klebold and Harris died as virgins" ... and then my wife just said to me "all those boys needed was a good shagging"
But it doesn't matter... the argument should be about our civil right to carry guns and not allowing the government to decide how they can best keep us safe. No thanks.
Well, I have a problem with external interference even if a majority of people think I should be restrained or coerced. My own goals, self-reliance, and liberty are superior to any institution, society, or government. Maybe that makes me an anarchist, but so be it. Regardless, I can't imagine that if put to a vote, people would vote for the government waging war, costing BILLIONS of our dollars, against its own citizens. And it would be war - many people who own guns would fight to the death to keep them.
The irony here is that I don't own guns.
I don't own a gun either....irony, I don't know...
Seems to me, it is about protecting our rights, that is the basis to this debate.
How strongly some of us, even those who choose not to own a gun,
feel about keeping the right to own a gun if one so chooses.