guns and bullets

JonnyPistachio

HeidiJam wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I stole some of this from the other thread cause it was leaning away from the 9 yr old that was murdered and more into this thread...

Paul David wrote:

bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.

peace.

Sounds good Paul. I agree with you too… we’re not going to all agree, but I just feel something needs to be done. There are more and more mass shootings lately by crazy folks.

HeidiJam wrote:

Your just mad that you can't stand up for yourself becase you afraid it might turn into something physical. I think the definition of that is a Pussy Bitch.

But its attitudes like this ^^^ that make me wonder who is fit to own a weapon. Seriously dude, this is a passionate subject, and many people are voicing opinions, but you bring this to an all-time-low with your condescending shittalk. You seriously sound like you need anger management classes. I don’t even know Haffa, but we are all PJ fans here. Show a little respect.

Why don't you quit cherry picking quotes and show what haffa said... Some of you people are truly clowns here and it is extremely frustraiting... Johnny If you are going to post that post then post what haffa said and my entire response post, and address what you don't agree with. If you can't stand up for yourself that you are a pussy bitch, is that wrong???

Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.

And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Well, I think it's quite clear I want handguns banned. That's what happened in Scotland after the Dunblane massacre, and guess what? No more massacres. Yes, criminals will always have guns - they even have them here too, in a city where there is a lot of gangland violence, but where no law-abiding citizen is packing heat. Where not even the beat police are armed. Result: your gun homicide rate is fifteen times ours. There's your enabling environment.

As to "allowing sane law abiding people town and carry guns", you have still completely failed to answer the questions on that point I asked you earlier.

I don't remember it? Thought I covered my opinion and the questions.

You want to ban guns...I thought that was the case.
No middle of the road, no tougher laws, total banishment to our basic right. A ban that would not allow those who wish to own a gun safely to do so. Rational, careful, peaceful people.
To me that is craziness.

Here are the questions again: How do you define who is responsible? How do you guarantee that only those people can have them? And how do you guarantee those people stay responsible?

Until you can guarantee that only responsible people can legally carry guns, I think it is not worth the risk of playing with people's lives. And I don't believe that such a guarantee is possible.

The fact of the matter is, it is not a "basic" right. It is not even close to having any meaningful equivalence with the fundamental human rights. It is a privilege and a completely unnecessary one at that, and I think innocent people's lives are far more important, far more precious than that unnecessary privilege.

But I've repeated this point ad nauseum at this point and I'm done with it. I've said what I need to say. You can accept it or not, but if not we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

pandora wrote:

A small light shines between us though
we are both against capital punishment

That much I am happy to acknowledge.

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.

And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.

Who did I call a name??? I said that you you can't stand up for your self then you are a pussy bitch. I did not call anybody that. And please expalin why you qoted that as it had nothing to do with the subject matter. If you are going to post anything please post the whole thing from both parties.

Moonpig

HeidiJam wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.

And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.

Who did I call a name??? I said that you you can't stand up for your self then you are a pussy bitch. I did not call anybody that. And please expalin why you qoted that as it had nothing to do with the subject matter. If you are going to post anything please post the whole thing from both parties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMaBta4 ... re=related

pandora

Moonpig wrote:

So you believe that the backround checks and waiting period served its purpose here? I am shocked and amazed that your insistance to be right is over riding your logic - to say "you know what, perhaps, based on this case, more stringent laws should be applied to ensure it doesnt happen again" would not mean you lost the debate, it would make you human for godsake.

I'm sick of this, I actually feel quite disgusted by some of you, as a species we are fucked if this is what we spend our efforts trying to defend, fucking appalling.

This is not a debate for me this is how I feel and it is logical and realistic. You are assuming I only care about being right but this is how strongly I feel.

I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.

I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.

You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.

These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.

What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.

JonnyPistachio

oh, I forgot, you've probably been banned before, so you know not to directly call someone a CLOWN or a PUSSY BITCH. If you just say that person falls under that definition, is not a direct insult.. ah okay, you got me, you're off the hook. Continue on...

HeidiJam wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.

And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.

Who did I call a name??? I said that you you can't stand up for your self then you are a pussy bitch. I did not call anybody that. And please expalin why you qoted that as it had nothing to do with the subject matter. If you are going to post anything please post the whole thing from both parties.

whatever makes you happy:

HeidiJam wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

Paul David wrote:

bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.

peace.

You know you're talking to the guy who thinks bullying is a good character builder, right?
Thumbs up for violence, everybody! :thumbup:

haha, I said bullying is unavoidable as children aren't mature enough to handle emitions/differences, etc... In which it is a good character builder Ie standing up for your self, I see no issues with that. You are the one who classified setting someone on fire, assult, murder, as acts of bully. You streached the term bully into something that was a catch all to all crime done to someone. You also blames suicide on bullying... It seems our definitions on bullying differ and you see it as murder and i see it as calling names/making fun of. Thats fine, I am not for violence but at least I am not afraid to stand up for my self and teach my kids the same. Its the parents responsibility to stop bullying if it escalades into physical abuse. Your just mad that you can't stand up for yourself becase you afraid it might turn into something physical. I think the definition of that is a Pussy Bitch.

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

oh, I forgot, you've probably been banned before, so you know not to directly call someone a CLOWN or a PUSSY BITCH. If you just say that person falls under that definition, is not a direct insult.. ah okay, you got me, you're off the hook. Continue on...

Please show me when and why I was banned and please ask KAT to comment on that, as I have never been banned from here. WHy lie???

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.

There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.

So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Here are the questions again: How do you define who is responsible? How do you guarantee that only those people can have them? And how do you guarantee those people stay responsible?

Until you can guarantee that only responsible people can legally carry guns, I think it is not worth the risk of playing with people's lives. And I don't believe that such a guarantee is possible.

The fact of the matter is, it is not a "basic" right. It is not even close to having any meaningful equivalence with the fundamental human rights. It is a privilege and a completely unnecessary one at that, and I think innocent people's lives are far more important, far more precious than that unnecessary privilege.

But I've repeated this point ad nauseum at this point and I'm done with it. I've said what I need to say. You can accept it or not, but if not we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

pandora wrote:

A small light shines between us though
we are both against capital punishment

That much I am happy to acknowledge.

We will agree to disagree on the banning of guns then.
The law can not cover if situations and carries no guarantee.
I understand this.

I also know that with each action there is a reaction and thus is the chain

that with each tragedy there is a silver lining of love

that we are all connected here and there
and this alone is reason enough for the things that happen

JonnyPistachio

HeidiJam wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

oh, I forgot, you've probably been banned before, so you know not to directly call someone a CLOWN or a PUSSY BITCH. If you just say that person falls under that definition, is not a direct insult.. ah okay, you got me, you're off the hook. Continue on...

Please show me when and why I was banned and please ask KAT to comment on that, as I have never been banned from here. WHy lie???

its a joke dude, I am just flabberghasted that you are in denial that you are condescending and use immature insults. nevermind. We dont need to talk anymore, I have no time for your attitude.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

HeidiJam wrote:

I am saying you can't take things away from people because someone can not handle that responsibility. We are adults and we are in control of our own actions.

so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.

Sorry, that argument holds no water.

Moonpig

pandora wrote:

Moonpig wrote:

So you believe that the backround checks and waiting period served its purpose here? I am shocked and amazed that your insistance to be right is over riding your logic - to say "you know what, perhaps, based on this case, more stringent laws should be applied to ensure it doesnt happen again" would not mean you lost the debate, it would make you human for godsake.

I'm sick of this, I actually feel quite disgusted by some of you, as a species we are fucked if this is what we spend our efforts trying to defend, fucking appalling.

This is not a debate for me this is how I feel and it is logical and realistic. You are assuming I only care about being right but this is how strongly I feel.

I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.

I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.

You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.

These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.

What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.

Amazing, how do you know no law would have stopped him?? You believe the backround checks to have been sufficient - really? Well I say they weren't, 6 people are dead because of existing laws. And rather than say, perhaps the law needs reviewing, you just wipe the tragedy away with a "These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them." statement and then have the gall to talk about empathy.

Anything to ensure you keep that sacred gun, everyone else be damned, good luck with that. Everyone is entitled to feel the way they do, careful with the tone, very judgemental of you :roll:

you speak of intent and knowing what people would do - do you really not see the sheer unadulterated irony in the drivel you are talking? Anyway, best of luck.

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.

There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.

So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.

Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.

BinauralJam

I beleive humans are animals and no laws will ever stop them.

Blockhead

Paul David wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

I am saying you can't take things away from people because someone can not handle that responsibility. We are adults and we are in control of our own actions.

so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.

Sorry, that argument holds no water.

Please explain to me the benifits of hard drugs, do they contribute anything positive to society, they destroy the lives of the users as well as their families. Guns do as they have stopped crimes many times, have allowed people to hunt and eat food for history.
Sorry, that arguement does hold water.

fife

HeidiJam wrote:

Paul David wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

I am saying you can't take things away from people because someone can not handle that responsibility. We are adults and we are in control of our own actions.

so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.

Sorry, that argument holds no water.

Please explain to me the benifits of hard drugs, do they contribute anything positive to society, they destroy the lives of the users as well as their families. Guns do as they have stopped crimes many times, have allowed people to hunt and eat food for history.
Sorry, that arguement does hold water.

Pot helps HIV patients in eating which allows them to live a better life. Heroin has been used in Cancer treatments.

pandora

Moonpig wrote:

pandora wrote:

Moonpig wrote:

So you believe that the backround checks and waiting period served its purpose here? I am shocked and amazed that your insistance to be right is over riding your logic - to say "you know what, perhaps, based on this case, more stringent laws should be applied to ensure it doesnt happen again" would not mean you lost the debate, it would make you human for godsake.

I'm sick of this, I actually feel quite disgusted by some of you, as a species we are fucked if this is what we spend our efforts trying to defend, fucking appalling.

This is not a debate for me this is how I feel and it is logical and realistic. You are assuming I only care about being right but this is how strongly I feel.

I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.

I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.

You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.

These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.

What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.

Amazing, how do you know no law would have stopped him?? You believe the backround checks to have been sufficient - really? Well I say they weren't, 6 people are dead because of existing laws. And rather than say, perhaps the law needs reviewing, you just wipe the tragedy away with a "These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them." statement and then have the gall to talk about empathy.

Anything to ensure you keep that sacred gun, everyone else be damned, good luck with that. Everyone is entitled to feel the way they do, careful with the tone, very judgemental of you :roll:

you speak of intent and knowing what people would do - do you really not see the sheer unadulterated irony in the drivel you are talking? Anyway, best of luck.

I don't think you mean that 'best of luck'

Because someone here on this earth knows there will be tragedies does not make them someone who lacks empathy. Actually it is just the opposite. I do not make light of tragedies again you are not listening or feeling me at all but just judging me because I believe in the right to own a gun.
I was not being judgmental and it is you who resorts to insults.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.

There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.

So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.

Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.

you didnt answer: so you are just OK with what happened and dont see ANY WAY to avoid things like this?

How are you able to say that about me?! for one who preaches to not judge so much... :roll:

I have looked at this from many perspectives. I dont know the answer, but I do know that this is a major failure in our society. A 9 yr old girl is DEAD. Did you see my other post? I said maybe a stricter law could have postponed it JUST long enough that someone would've recognized his mental instabilities. We cant just sit back and say, oh its just gonna happen no matter what... :? thats not a good attitude for me to take.

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.

So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.

Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.

you didnt answer: so you are just OK with what happened and dont see ANY WAY to avoid things like this?

How are you able to say that about me?! for one who preaches to not judge so much... :roll:

I have looked at this from many perspectives. I dont know the answer, but I do know that this is a major failure in our society. A 9 yr old girl is DEAD. Did you see my other post? I said maybe a stricter law could have postponed it JUST long enough that someone would've recognized his mental instabilities. We cant just sit back and say, oh its just gonna happen no matter what... :? thats not a good attitude for me to take.

ummm :? what did I say about you again? I don't roll eyes at people either I think that is degrading to others

josevolution

Def have to have way stricter Laws , is it true that the Bullets that were used in this crime cost 22cents per bullet :oops: