For those who renewed in advance, there's no way 10C can take away your vinyl and hardcopy Deeps so long as they're still being produced. You paid for memberships that included them. They cannot say "Well, now you have to pay us even more if you want those". They have to honour their end of the deal, otherwise they should have never allowed for multiple years renewal. And I really hope people who are years ahead really don't pay extra for a t-shirt they cannot select and a download they can get elsewhere for free. Because I do fear many would do so just to be able to call themselves analog, which is sad.
i'm just curious about what will happen to my membership that expires sept 2011
i would imagine that i'll get my hard copy of deep(mailed) and the xmas single(mailed) but do i get a "free" tshirt and a link to download a bootleg? those weren't things i originally paid for....so i'm not really expecting them to be now given to me for free.
it just doesnt make sense that some people who have paid for their membership for 10 years in advance get a free tshirt every year...but um i dunno...
i can't beleive i got through all 28 pages of this thread. oh my... :geek:
i'm old and have been a hardcore fan for many years so my decision is based on how i value the upgrade package, being, the record, the hard copy of deep and the tshirt. i already have extra large suitcase packed of rock/tour tshirts and just can't justify ever wanting/needing another tshirt. but i will miss the hard copy of deep and the 45 single but i'm also working at trying to collect less stuff so maybe it's a good time to break free and buy the cheaper of the 2 packages from now on...unless the tshirt is exclusive and/or 10c designed and not sold elsewhere then maybe i'll try the premium package for a year but i have found the quality of pj shirts just aint what they use to be...ugh, the decisions...life was so much easier!!!
Why is it so wrong to question value on here? if your cable bill doubled overnight and all you got in return was a channel you might not ever watch, would you just except it??? i know we only talking 20$ difference and no, it is not huge sum of money.. But why is it so wrong to expect some kind of service or offer for double my cost?? That being said, i think the ball is 10C's court now !! lets see what we are offered for doubling our cost! I'm going to give it a try and see what offers are sent our way in the upcoming year..
i am cautiously optimistic :roll:
happy new year
WHY?
Because no-one asked you to become hooked on PJ.
If your opposed to it make your stand.
To the rest of us, hopefully PJ will bring back Seniorority seating.....
and here was me thinking Santa didn't exist
:wave: see ya
In the early 90's I fell in love with a band called Pearl Jam. I joined the 10c and enjoyed everything about the band. At some point I let my membership lapse(which I completely regret). I rejoined 2 years ago. Now they come out with the new membership options. We all are adults and can make decisions. I will pay the extra for analog because I love this band. Yes they rich and only getting richer but I really don't care that is their job. All of my bills go up and I bitch but still pay them. If you don't want to pay the extra then don't. I am grateful for everything the band has done through the 10c and when I wasn't a member. Its the music that is important not the dollars brought in. It is expensive to tour, sell merch, put out awesome posters etc. It is a little downer to have to pay more but I don't have to...That is the point you don't have to pay more unless you want to. It would be nice if a portion went to wishlist or some other charity. I say bring on 2011 Pearl Jam and keep on rocking
Reading all these replies from fellow distraught 10c members is kind of depressing.
I think the question you have to ask yourself is: Is losing your 10c number worth the loss of a hard copy vinyl?
I'm sure there is like a 80/20 split of people who will actually wear the shirt, and this day and age the digital download is pretty useless...if we are being honest.
So for $20 extra you are basically getting the holiday vinyl. The 10c knows besides the OPPORTUNITY to get concert tickets this is the most valuable part of the membership. When mass producing T-Shirts they come out to 4-7$ each including artwork printing on the shirt. Printing and mailing the Deep issue? perhaps $2-4 per??
So what costs are they incurring for the Digital membership? They have to be VERY minimal. They are offering lottery tickets on Tandy/Commodore/Apple IIe systems. You are paying $20 in essence to keep your membership number. If you subtract the T-Shirt/Deep issue you are paying ~$30 for the holiday vinyl. Even if you increase the costs associated with the above two items you're paying ~$20 for the holiday single.
For me keeping my low(ish) 10c number is worth the renewal price of $20. In the future if this low-end price is raised to $40-50 just to keep the number, well then you have to start really pondering the thought. Do you REALLY need the holiday single or is it just because you are so used to getting it?
10c knows exactly what they are doing, and they know they will have a huge renew rate because people want to keep receiving the holiday single. Don't for a second think that the 10c is on the verge of closing due to inflation. Hardly.
None of you know the inner workings of the business side of the fan club, so none of you should be supposing you do based on whatever personal/professional experience you claim to have. :roll: Choosing to look at what you aren't getting vs. what you do get is a personal choice.
Like many Ten Clubbers my first reaction to this news was outrage, and I swore I'd just go cheaper when I renew. But after thinking more about it, I'll be analog. I still want the Christmas vinyl to listen to and add to my growing record collection; I'll download a show with the code and I'm sure I'll enjoy it; and I'll wear the T-shirt because that is mostly what my wardrobe consists of and my last new PJ shirt was from Riot Act. I had felt for awhile I was just staying a member for the ticket sales and seniority, but now the thought of ending my vinyl single collection after 15 years saddens me. My own $0.02. :?
There are people on here that really make me sick. Heaven forbid there be a discussion about value and whether or not something is fair without those engaging in it being called names or looked down upon. It also goes to show why the economy is so fucked in the first place, as so many people clearly do not understand the concept of value. Yes, this may "just" be $40, but imagine if everything you bought went up 100% overnight. Everything is creeping up, except most salaries and job opportunities. Sure, I can afford $40 for a mostly pointless package of shit I don't need. I can also afford a lot of things for $100 or $1000, but after awhile I stop being able to afford everything if I take that approach. But better to do it that way than to be labeled a whiner here by the d-bag elitist fans.
For those who renewed in advance, there's no way 10C can take away your vinyl and hardcopy Deeps so long as they're still being produced. You paid for memberships that included them. They cannot say "Well, now you have to pay us even more if you want those". They have to honour their end of the deal, otherwise they should have never allowed for multiple years renewal. And I really hope people who are years ahead really don't pay extra for a t-shirt they cannot select and a download they can get elsewhere for free. Because I do fear many would do so just to be able to call themselves analog, which is sad.
And please, can we all stop pretending that Pearl Jam and Ten Club are some sort of religious charity? If you're not stealing their music, you owe them nothing. Pearl Jam Inc is a business and as the customers we have a right to discuss their business model. I'm tired of this word "fan" because, quite frankly, when was the last time Pearl Jam Inc treated us like fans instead of customers?
But it hasn't been a discussion about "value." From the get go, people have been worked up and saying brutal shit about the band and people associated with them. For what? Because the price of their fan club membership went up $20? You're absolutely right that we're customers. Does that make it ok for people to create these straw man arguments and then torch a band they've supposedly loved for x number of years? No one knows why the cost went up. Is it because we're in a recession and the cost of doing business in general has gone up across the board? Is it because the Scrooge McDuck vat of money is getting low? I don't know and I don't care. It's a friggin' fan club.
I'm cool with the cost and still find it to be of decent value. There may come a point where it does get too expensive. If it does, I won't be on here making it a point to let everyone within earshot know how deeply it wounds *me* and how betrayed *I* feel. It's not about me. I'll just take my cash and time and invest in another band I love.
I think it's kind of depressing to read all the negative comments here. I am thinking it over and over and I haven't decided yet. I also think it's hard to take that the price doubled. It's good to question and discuss things like that but in the end everybody must decide for themselves. I, for my part, am still in my first membership year. I haven't received a holiday single or a Deep magazine yet and I didn't ever buy tickets via 10c and I won't profit from buying them for a Euro tour either because we don't have "seats" like in the US. I just liked the thought of belonging to this community and fanclub and feel part of the whole thing and it is sad to see people getting so upset :?
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
let's be honest. if you want the fan club single so bad but don't want to pay for the membership, you don't need a membership. just troll ebay, and you'll find one for the same price or lower when it comes out. the only ones that are expensive are the ones pre-2000. You even catch Deep on there from time to time. Or become friendly with someone who you know has a spouse who also has a membership, and make an arrangement for their second copy.
for me, it's the total package, the vinyl, the mag, but honestly, it's the community. tickets are meaningless since they don't come here. I'll be analoging it.
all that being said, I don't blame anyone for having a differing opinion, nor will I label them as ungrateful or whiners.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think it's kind of depressing to read all the negative comments here. I am thinking it over and over and I haven't decided yet. I also think it's hard to take that the price doubled. It's good to question and discuss things like that but in the end everybody must decide for themselves. I, for my part, am still in my first membership year. I haven't received a holiday single or a Deep magazine yet and I didn't ever buy tickets via 10c and I won't profit from buying them for a Euro tour either because we don't have "seats" like in the US. I just liked the thought of belonging to this community and fanclub and feel part of the whole thing and it is sad to see people getting so upset :?
I totally agree with your feelings. I just started my second year of membership and have really enjoyed my time as part of this community this past year (secret santa, meeting other fans, Dimi's giveaways and overall generosity, debates on the moving train and pretty much the feeling of having something in common with thousands of people from around the world....). I have absolutely no use for 10c tix, but enjoy the stuff I receive (even though I have no way to play vinyl) and the people I have met.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
I think it's kind of depressing to read all the negative comments here. I am thinking it over and over and I haven't decided yet. I also think it's hard to take that the price doubled. It's good to question and discuss things like that but in the end everybody must decide for themselves. I, for my part, am still in my first membership year. I haven't received a holiday single or a Deep magazine yet and I didn't ever buy tickets via 10c and I won't profit from buying them for a Euro tour either because we don't have "seats" like in the US. I just liked the thought of belonging to this community and fanclub and feel part of the whole thing and it is sad to see people getting so upset :?
I totally agree with your feelings. I just started my second year of membership and have really enjoyed my time as part of this community this past year (secret santa, meeting other fans, Dimi's giveaways and overall generosity, debates on the moving train and pretty much the feeling of having something in common with thousands of people from around the world....). I have absolutely no use for 10c tix, but enjoy the stuff I receive (even though I have no way to play vinyl) and the people I have met.
I agree with you both. Leeze, you took the words out of my mouth.
I'm sure those who want a vinyl single can buy it for like 10$ if they don't want to pay analog membership
and those who want the free boot can borrow it, download it or something
while i don't like a 1st class, 2nd class system, I'm glad they haven't just increased everyone's membership because not everyone can afford $40 to $50 memberships.
there's bad points and good points and I hope that 10c reply to the questions, but it is sad to see so many people so angry and people fighting. remember the music that brought you here, remember the shows and the fans
I think it's kind of depressing to read all the negative comments here. I am thinking it over and over and I haven't decided yet. I also think it's hard to take that the price doubled. It's good to question and discuss things like that but in the end everybody must decide for themselves. I, for my part, am still in my first membership year. I haven't received a holiday single or a Deep magazine yet and I didn't ever buy tickets via 10c and I won't profit from buying them for a Euro tour either because we don't have "seats" like in the US. I just liked the thought of belonging to this community and fanclub and feel part of the whole thing and it is sad to see people getting so upset :?
Leeze, you took the words out of my mouth.
And from my mouth as well.
PJ * 2010 * Belfast * 2012 * Manchester 1 * Manchester 2 * Berlin 1 * Berlin 2 * 2014 * Amsterdam 1 * Amsterdam 2 * Berlin * Leeds * Milton Keynes * EV * 2012 * Manchester * London 1 * London 2 * 2017 * Dublin * Cork *
The Ten Club have probably been pondering a price increase for a while, and wondering the best way of doing it. Doubling the price does seem a little extreme, doing it in one go. If they were smart they would have actually lowered the price of 'digital membership to $15 or something, to reward the eco warriors.
I think you can look at it two ways - either charitably or uncharitably - giving the Ten Club the benefit of the doubt or not - and the true answer probably lies somewhere in between.
Charitably you could imagine that 2011 is going to bring an increased amount of fanclub activity - specials, branding, merchandise, new things, new benefits, all with overheads. Maybe 10C want to improve the organisation, hire some new people, improve services. The PJ radio has costs, maybe they want to improve on it. The price increase may be part of their business plan to improve the organisation. Also the price seemed quite cheap before (to me), and in return this forum often became a message board about the Ten Club organisation, rather than a message board for discussing Pearl Jam, the band, the music, the community - of which the Ten Club is only really a minor part in the grand scheme of things. I wonder if introducing a dramatic change in pricing has got something to do with shaking up the place, and getting people to really consider if they want to be a member of this fan club.
For me one of the most important benefits of Ten Club membership is the opportunity to communicate with fellow fans through this message board - part of the official mouthpiece of PearlJam.com, prominently featured on the band's main website, and not tucked away in the corner. I like this - we here are part of the public face of Pearl Jam to the outside world. Now the decision was taken back around Riot Act time (I believe it was) to link the message board to the ten club membership (previously anyone could join and post) - but if you know the history of this board you might feel like I do that the intention was not to create a 'Ten Club' discussion forum, as the vehicle by which Ten Club members can raise issues relating to the fan club (although for several years this is what it resembled). Rather I believe it was designed to make it a safer more protected place to post and discuss Pearl Jam - and maybe people who were active with me here around the time of the invasion of Iraq and Eddie's high profile and unpopular stance against it will understand where I am coming from here. Thank God they made it harder to join the discussion is all I will say on this one.
Looking at things more unfavourably to Ten Club, one could say they provide an unreliable service which is not currently great value for money, and that therefore increasing the price dramatically is unwarranted and doesn't represent value based on their performance. I know some people think that Ten Club is a ruthless money grabbing machine, and this rise could be pointed to as further evidence of that. Personally I don't see Ten Club this way, but I do have more grievances with the Ten Club and what they do than I have with the band and what they do. I would always join a Pearl Jam fanclub, but I don't think I would join a 'Ten Club fanclub' if you see what I mean! The thing I keep in my own mind is that the Ten Club is not the band, but it is one of the main channels via which fans communicate with each other and engage with the band, and so the decisions they take do have an impact. It is run as a stand alone business I guess, and has costs and plans and output which are nothing to do with the band. So I see it as a separate thing. I know they are closely connected, but personally I don't really know or care that much about how Ten Club is organised. They get a lot right, they get some things wrong. As long as the band keep putting out music that matters to me, and they seem people that I can admire (which they still do~) then I will remain a full member.
On the limited edition vinyl, all I will say is hmmm. Collecting Pearl Jam is cool, a nice hobby. In my eyes the Pearl Jam community and what the band still stand for though is not that much to do with collecting posters and vinyl and t-shirts though. So people that have this as their most important connection to the band can just weigh up the cost of owning limited edition stuff relating to their income and ebay prices. The digital option would be cool for all the non collecters, which is why I think it would have been smarter of them to lower that cost slightly - if they had done that we would have been having a very different set of discussions!!
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coachchris
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 749
There are a lot of great ideas floating out there for the 10c to possibly consider and I honestly believe they do look at the suggestions we make (whether they adopt them or not is up to them).
I think the most important thing here is better communication.
They now have the Sirius radio show where they could take the full hour with no phone calls to offer their visions moving forward. They could put an end to alot of rumours and speculation that float around on here by just stating the facts.
Tell us, what happened to the big, bold, free item? Tell us, why the holliday single can't be sent out on time (despite having a year to plan ahead)? Tell us, why when we buy albums from the 10c site that we don't get atleast the same perks as buying through box stores and that it lands on my door a month and a half after the release date?
A little communication in these instances would go a long, long way IMO.
Adolescence in essence is all about trust.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
let me get this straight... there has been 60+ pages of conversation between these 2 threads and 10C STILL hasn't weighed in on this?? not even to answer valid questions (which admittedly would only open the flood gates)
whens that radio call-in show that i never listen to? might be the first response we actually get on this
like others have said... lower the digital to $15 cause you're not really getting anything... raise the analog to $30, even if that means not getting the mysterious shirt... if you wanna raise it another $5 in a few years then fine... just do it gradually
Why is it so wrong to question value on here? if your cable bill doubled overnight and all you got in return was a channel you might not ever watch, would you just except it??? i know we only talking 20$ difference and no, it is not huge sum of money.. But why is it so wrong to expect some kind of service or offer for double my cost?? That being said, i think the ball is 10C's court now !! lets see what we are offered for doubling our cost! I'm going to give it a try and see what offers are sent our way in the upcoming year..
i am cautiously optimistic :roll:
happy new year
WHY?
Because no-one asked you to become hooked on PJ.
If your opposed to it make your stand.
To the rest of us, hopefully PJ will bring back Seniorority seating.....
and here was me thinking Santa didn't exist
:wave: see ya
I wasn't aware they took it away...
Oh heaven forbid, they put the first 2 rows up for grabs, how dare they take away the right for 48 year old 10c members to sit at the front for all eternity. But now its perfect, just pay 20 dollars to keep your place in line... because that's really all you get with the digital membership.
like others have said... lower the digital to $15 cause you're not really getting anything... raise the analog to $30, even if that means not getting the mysterious shirt... if you wanna raise it another $5 in a few years then fine... just do it gradually
I agree with this...there needs to be a 3-tiered system...$15-20 for digital, $30 if you want the annual vinyl, $40 if you want the bootleg/T-shirt/possibly other stuff. I think that's more fair.
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
I agree with this...there needs to be a 3-tiered system...$15-20 for digital, $30 if you want the annual vinyl, $40 if you want the bootleg/T-shirt/possibly other stuff. I think that's more fair.
I agree on the 3-tiered system.
Digital choice should be $15; $25 for the vinyl included; and $35-$40 for vinyl, shirt and deep mags included.
If they did it this way, I think there wouldn't be any complaints.
the mods generally don't answer questions posed in a thread, do they? my understanding is they (sometimes) answer if they are directly pm'd/emailed. plus it's the weekend.
let me get this straight... there has been 60+ pages of conversation between these 2 threads and 10C STILL hasn't weighed in on this?? not even to answer valid questions (which admittedly would only open the flood gates)
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
if i were king of Pearl Jam land, i'd blow up the 10club, make this board free, end seniority, and just go back to making music. all this Pearl Jam Inc. crap is stupid and is just getting in the way. I dont care about merchandise and i've never had any trouble with ticketmaster (unlike 10C tickets), so there isn't any value here for me.
but thats just my personal taste. like i said earlier, if you live in the northeast or have to have every PJ lunchbox or t-shirt they make, you'd probably think differently.
For all the bitching on here - none of us will know shit until this time next year. Perhaps TC will be much more organized as far as timing with issues, contests, and whatever else they have planned for us and they need some more money to get it off the ground. Analog is a risk you're taking this year - but really -it's a 25 dollar risk (I'm International). If you pay the hike like I am this year and we still get 1 newsletter while promised 2 and the record shows up whenever they feel like it, then I may switch to digital the next year.
I think it would be cool for them to do a lottery every 4 months for mystery grab bags and stuff like that for the analog members. I have faith the TC is going to expand to more fun things like this, and not just be pocketing the difference. I know deep/single show up late but when you contact the TC they are always accommodating and helpful, not to mention prompt on many other issues.
That being said - I still COULD be wrong, and if I am I will vote with my dollars the next time around and go digital - but I don't have any problem showing a little faith right now.
I wish they would raise it to $100 so my seniority might actually move up.
------------------------------------------------------------ Too many shows to even begin to remember. Long live The Pearl Jams! ------------------------------------------------------------ Some of my music... https://soundcloud.com/fingerchili ------------------------------------------------------------H
the mods generally don't answer questions posed in a thread, do they? my understanding is they (sometimes) answer if they are directly pm'd/emailed. plus it's the weekend.
let me get this straight... there has been 60+ pages of conversation between these 2 threads and 10C STILL hasn't weighed in on this?? not even to answer valid questions (which admittedly would only open the flood gates)
oh thats right... the weekend... well they chose to announce this on a friday didnt they? this could've been done a month ago with the option to pay up through 2 or 3 years with no additional cost
some discussion is called for in this case... whether it fits the norm or not... either revise the original post to address some of the issues raised or take a day to actually reply to specific posts to show that they actually give a damn what we think about how things are run
i see us as shareholders in this "business" and they should treat us as such
I love this band and I will renew with a smile for $40. I don't understand those saying they cant afford 10 cents a day or will not renew because they are not getting enough for the extra money. I shut off my cable and Internet at home to save money for the chance to see the band this year. I could not imagine life without Pearl Jam and I will continue to enjoy everything they have to offer.
1996 - Ft Lauderdale
1998 - West Palm Beach 1
2000 - West Palm Beach 1&2
2003 - WPB,Tampa,Atlanta,Camden 1&2,MSG 1&2, Boston 3,Hershey Park
2004 - Asheville, Kissimmee
2008 - West Palm Beach,Tampa,Columbia,Virginia Beach, Mansfield 1&2
2010 - Hartford,Boston,Newark, MSG 1&2
2011 - PJ20 1&2, Costa Rica 2013 - Wrigley,Brooklyn 1&2,Seattle 2014 - Denver,Mountain View 1&2 2015 - Bogata, Mexico City 2016 - Ft Lauderdale,Miami,Tampa,NYC 1&2,Telluride,Fenway 1&2,Wrigley 1&2
For all the bitching on here - none of us will know shit until this time next year. Perhaps TC will be much more organized as far as timing with issues, contests, and whatever else they have planned for us and they need some more money to get it off the ground. Analog is a risk you're taking this year - but really -it's a 25 dollar risk (I'm International). If you pay the hike like I am this year and we still get 1 newsletter while promised 2 and the record shows up whenever they feel like it, then I may switch to digital the next year.
I think it would be cool for them to do a lottery every 4 months for mystery grab bags and stuff like that for the analog members. I have faith the TC is going to expand to more fun things like this, and not just be pocketing the difference.
everything that comes with the analog should be laid out from the get go... people shouldn't be "punished" for not taking a chance on some intangible package... any grab bag type stuff should be open to ALL fan club members... we don't need to push this class system anymore than where its already headed... don't set up a scenario in which people are kicking themselves over $20... thats a hell of a way to get a lot of people harboring resentment
and quite frankly I'm sick of how everything is a mystery item these days... it tells me that 10C knows we would be content with anything we get as long as it says PJ on it... and sadly its true for many :?
I love this band and I will renew with a smile for $40. I don't understand those saying they cant afford 10 cents a day or will not renew because they are not getting enough for the extra money. I shut off my cable and Internet at home to save money for the chance to see the band this year. I could not imagine life without Pearl Jam and I will continue to enjoy everything they have to offer.
ten cents a day implies that you are getting something every day. this kind of reasoning is nonsensical. 40 bucks is 40 bucks. if you think its worth it fine, if you dont, feel free to bitch about it and cancel your membership. i dont care how little money something costs. its about value. i'm not gonna spend 10 dollars a year on an empty tomato can just because its pennies a day!
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i'm just curious about what will happen to my membership that expires sept 2011
i would imagine that i'll get my hard copy of deep(mailed) and the xmas single(mailed) but do i get a "free" tshirt and a link to download a bootleg? those weren't things i originally paid for....so i'm not really expecting them to be now given to me for free.
it just doesnt make sense that some people who have paid for their membership for 10 years in advance get a free tshirt every year...but um i dunno...
i can't beleive i got through all 28 pages of this thread. oh my... :geek:
i'm old and have been a hardcore fan for many years so my decision is based on how i value the upgrade package, being, the record, the hard copy of deep and the tshirt. i already have extra large suitcase packed of rock/tour tshirts and just can't justify ever wanting/needing another tshirt. but i will miss the hard copy of deep and the 45 single but i'm also working at trying to collect less stuff so maybe it's a good time to break free and buy the cheaper of the 2 packages from now on...unless the tshirt is exclusive and/or 10c designed and not sold elsewhere then maybe i'll try the premium package for a year but i have found the quality of pj shirts just aint what they use to be...ugh, the decisions...life was so much easier!!!
WHY?
Because no-one asked you to become hooked on PJ.
If your opposed to it make your stand.
To the rest of us, hopefully PJ will bring back Seniorority seating.....
and here was me thinking Santa didn't exist
:wave: see ya
I think the question you have to ask yourself is: Is losing your 10c number worth the loss of a hard copy vinyl?
I'm sure there is like a 80/20 split of people who will actually wear the shirt, and this day and age the digital download is pretty useless...if we are being honest.
So for $20 extra you are basically getting the holiday vinyl. The 10c knows besides the OPPORTUNITY to get concert tickets this is the most valuable part of the membership. When mass producing T-Shirts they come out to 4-7$ each including artwork printing on the shirt. Printing and mailing the Deep issue? perhaps $2-4 per??
So what costs are they incurring for the Digital membership? They have to be VERY minimal. They are offering lottery tickets on Tandy/Commodore/Apple IIe systems. You are paying $20 in essence to keep your membership number. If you subtract the T-Shirt/Deep issue you are paying ~$30 for the holiday vinyl. Even if you increase the costs associated with the above two items you're paying ~$20 for the holiday single.
For me keeping my low(ish) 10c number is worth the renewal price of $20. In the future if this low-end price is raised to $40-50 just to keep the number, well then you have to start really pondering the thought. Do you REALLY need the holiday single or is it just because you are so used to getting it?
10c knows exactly what they are doing, and they know they will have a huge renew rate because people want to keep receiving the holiday single. Don't for a second think that the 10c is on the verge of closing due to inflation. Hardly.
You forgot to kiss me
Before you stuck it in my ass!
q :shock:
But it hasn't been a discussion about "value." From the get go, people have been worked up and saying brutal shit about the band and people associated with them. For what? Because the price of their fan club membership went up $20? You're absolutely right that we're customers. Does that make it ok for people to create these straw man arguments and then torch a band they've supposedly loved for x number of years? No one knows why the cost went up. Is it because we're in a recession and the cost of doing business in general has gone up across the board? Is it because the Scrooge McDuck vat of money is getting low? I don't know and I don't care. It's a friggin' fan club.
I'm cool with the cost and still find it to be of decent value. There may come a point where it does get too expensive. If it does, I won't be on here making it a point to let everyone within earshot know how deeply it wounds *me* and how betrayed *I* feel. It's not about me. I'll just take my cash and time and invest in another band I love.
for me, it's the total package, the vinyl, the mag, but honestly, it's the community. tickets are meaningless since they don't come here. I'll be analoging it.
all that being said, I don't blame anyone for having a differing opinion, nor will I label them as ungrateful or whiners.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I totally agree with your feelings. I just started my second year of membership and have really enjoyed my time as part of this community this past year (secret santa, meeting other fans, Dimi's giveaways and overall generosity, debates on the moving train and pretty much the feeling of having something in common with thousands of people from around the world....). I have absolutely no use for 10c tix, but enjoy the stuff I receive (even though I have no way to play vinyl) and the people I have met.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
I agree with you both. Leeze, you took the words out of my mouth.
I'm sure those who want a vinyl single can buy it for like 10$ if they don't want to pay analog membership
and those who want the free boot can borrow it, download it or something
while i don't like a 1st class, 2nd class system, I'm glad they haven't just increased everyone's membership because not everyone can afford $40 to $50 memberships.
there's bad points and good points and I hope that 10c reply to the questions, but it is sad to see so many people so angry and people fighting. remember the music that brought you here, remember the shows and the fans
EV * 2012 * Manchester * London 1 * London 2 * 2017 * Dublin * Cork *
I think you can look at it two ways - either charitably or uncharitably - giving the Ten Club the benefit of the doubt or not - and the true answer probably lies somewhere in between.
Charitably you could imagine that 2011 is going to bring an increased amount of fanclub activity - specials, branding, merchandise, new things, new benefits, all with overheads. Maybe 10C want to improve the organisation, hire some new people, improve services. The PJ radio has costs, maybe they want to improve on it. The price increase may be part of their business plan to improve the organisation. Also the price seemed quite cheap before (to me), and in return this forum often became a message board about the Ten Club organisation, rather than a message board for discussing Pearl Jam, the band, the music, the community - of which the Ten Club is only really a minor part in the grand scheme of things. I wonder if introducing a dramatic change in pricing has got something to do with shaking up the place, and getting people to really consider if they want to be a member of this fan club.
For me one of the most important benefits of Ten Club membership is the opportunity to communicate with fellow fans through this message board - part of the official mouthpiece of PearlJam.com, prominently featured on the band's main website, and not tucked away in the corner. I like this - we here are part of the public face of Pearl Jam to the outside world. Now the decision was taken back around Riot Act time (I believe it was) to link the message board to the ten club membership (previously anyone could join and post) - but if you know the history of this board you might feel like I do that the intention was not to create a 'Ten Club' discussion forum, as the vehicle by which Ten Club members can raise issues relating to the fan club (although for several years this is what it resembled). Rather I believe it was designed to make it a safer more protected place to post and discuss Pearl Jam - and maybe people who were active with me here around the time of the invasion of Iraq and Eddie's high profile and unpopular stance against it will understand where I am coming from here. Thank God they made it harder to join the discussion is all I will say on this one.
Looking at things more unfavourably to Ten Club, one could say they provide an unreliable service which is not currently great value for money, and that therefore increasing the price dramatically is unwarranted and doesn't represent value based on their performance. I know some people think that Ten Club is a ruthless money grabbing machine, and this rise could be pointed to as further evidence of that. Personally I don't see Ten Club this way, but I do have more grievances with the Ten Club and what they do than I have with the band and what they do. I would always join a Pearl Jam fanclub, but I don't think I would join a 'Ten Club fanclub' if you see what I mean! The thing I keep in my own mind is that the Ten Club is not the band, but it is one of the main channels via which fans communicate with each other and engage with the band, and so the decisions they take do have an impact. It is run as a stand alone business I guess, and has costs and plans and output which are nothing to do with the band. So I see it as a separate thing. I know they are closely connected, but personally I don't really know or care that much about how Ten Club is organised. They get a lot right, they get some things wrong. As long as the band keep putting out music that matters to me, and they seem people that I can admire (which they still do~) then I will remain a full member.
On the limited edition vinyl, all I will say is hmmm. Collecting Pearl Jam is cool, a nice hobby. In my eyes the Pearl Jam community and what the band still stand for though is not that much to do with collecting posters and vinyl and t-shirts though. So people that have this as their most important connection to the band can just weigh up the cost of owning limited edition stuff relating to their income and ebay prices. The digital option would be cool for all the non collecters, which is why I think it would have been smarter of them to lower that cost slightly - if they had done that we would have been having a very different set of discussions!!
Send my credentials to the house of detention
I think the most important thing here is better communication.
They now have the Sirius radio show where they could take the full hour with no phone calls to offer their visions moving forward. They could put an end to alot of rumours and speculation that float around on here by just stating the facts.
Tell us, what happened to the big, bold, free item? Tell us, why the holliday single can't be sent out on time (despite having a year to plan ahead)? Tell us, why when we buy albums from the 10c site that we don't get atleast the same perks as buying through box stores and that it lands on my door a month and a half after the release date?
A little communication in these instances would go a long, long way IMO.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
whens that radio call-in show that i never listen to? might be the first response we actually get on this
like others have said... lower the digital to $15 cause you're not really getting anything... raise the analog to $30, even if that means not getting the mysterious shirt... if you wanna raise it another $5 in a few years then fine... just do it gradually
http://seanbriceart.com/
Oh heaven forbid, they put the first 2 rows up for grabs, how dare they take away the right for 48 year old 10c members to sit at the front for all eternity. But now its perfect, just pay 20 dollars to keep your place in line... because that's really all you get with the digital membership.
I agree with this...there needs to be a 3-tiered system...$15-20 for digital, $30 if you want the annual vinyl, $40 if you want the bootleg/T-shirt/possibly other stuff. I think that's more fair.
Digital choice should be $15; $25 for the vinyl included; and $35-$40 for vinyl, shirt and deep mags included.
If they did it this way, I think there wouldn't be any complaints.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
but thats just my personal taste. like i said earlier, if you live in the northeast or have to have every PJ lunchbox or t-shirt they make, you'd probably think differently.
I think it would be cool for them to do a lottery every 4 months for mystery grab bags and stuff like that for the analog members. I have faith the TC is going to expand to more fun things like this, and not just be pocketing the difference. I know deep/single show up late but when you contact the TC they are always accommodating and helpful, not to mention prompt on many other issues.
That being said - I still COULD be wrong, and if I am I will vote with my dollars the next time around and go digital - but I don't have any problem showing a little faith right now.
Too many shows to even begin to remember.
Long live The Pearl Jams!
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Some of my music...
https://soundcloud.com/fingerchili
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some discussion is called for in this case... whether it fits the norm or not... either revise the original post to address some of the issues raised or take a day to actually reply to specific posts to show that they actually give a damn what we think about how things are run
i see us as shareholders in this "business" and they should treat us as such
http://seanbriceart.com/
1998 - West Palm Beach 1
2000 - West Palm Beach 1&2
2003 - WPB,Tampa,Atlanta,Camden 1&2,MSG 1&2, Boston 3,Hershey Park
2004 - Asheville, Kissimmee
2008 - West Palm Beach,Tampa,Columbia,Virginia Beach, Mansfield 1&2
2010 - Hartford,Boston,Newark, MSG 1&2
2011 - PJ20 1&2, Costa Rica
2013 - Wrigley,Brooklyn 1&2,Seattle
2014 - Denver,Mountain View 1&2
2015 - Bogata, Mexico City
2016 - Ft Lauderdale,Miami,Tampa,NYC 1&2,Telluride,Fenway 1&2,Wrigley 1&2
and quite frankly I'm sick of how everything is a mystery item these days... it tells me that 10C knows we would be content with anything we get as long as it says PJ on it... and sadly its true for many :?
http://seanbriceart.com/