australia.. the dumb blonde

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

:roll:

who is constantly judging? sorry, i dont find dumb people endearing. i find it frustrating. and i dont have to love them, i dont have to love everyone, just respect them as people. which is what i do.. doesnt change the fact theyre tiresome and frustrating for me.

but you know whats worse? ... people who act dumb.

It doesn't feel like respect, your words don't ring respectful. When you say someone is tiresome that sounds disrespectful and judgmental. And like you'd rather not engage.

so its more respectful to pretend?

i stated that i find dumb people tiresome. all that is is a statement of fact. if that is judgemental then so be it. i find it difficult enough to engage with people in general, but dealing with dumb people... thats something i just cant do. its the same with racist or ignorant people. i simply have zero patience.

ONCE DEVIDED

It's o.k, I get it: She doesn't live there now so she has no idea about the place, despite frequent visits, and having family and friends there, and keeping up to date on cultural and political developments.

I'm not saying that her every word is sacrosanct - I was just throwing it out there. And I'm all for tearing people's arguments apart, but to dismiss her comments based simply on the fact that she doesn't now live in Australia doesn't cut it.[/quote]

as an australian we often get her quotes, her diatribes. her papers splashed throughout our society. and its mostly crap.
I would listen more to eminent intelelgent Australians who live here, study here and travel the world bringing back more knowledge.
Oh I went on holidays to Europe does that make me an expert on the subject.
If you are not living in the society how can you know the nuances.
How can you be an anarchist in a society , when you dont live in it.

lots of people have ideas, why is hers the only one you bring to the table. I find that interesting.
The female Eunach makes her an expert on everything ??

TriumphantAngel

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

The female Eunach makes her an expert on everything ??

i read the female eunuch and it was an interestíng read but not something i'd base my own thought on. not even close.

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

...If you are not living in the society how can you know the nuances.
How can you be an anarchist in a society , when you dont live in it....

of course it also depends on where in that society you live. though one would say we all live within the australian society i can tell you my sister, my parents and my own experiences are different. and this even despite my sister and i living in the same city. but even within that, within our own local areas contrary views and values will be found. stereotypes are destructive. and dismissing a whole people as racist is not only destructive, its lazy. and no one is more lazy than the media.

Byrnzie

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

If you are not living in the society how can you know the nuances.
How can you be an anarchist in a society , when you dont live in it.

lots of people have ideas, why is hers the only one you bring to the table. I find that interesting.
The female Eunach makes her an expert on everything ??

She was born and raised there. I was born in England but I've lived in Asia the past 4 years, so is anything I say about England now irrelevant?

And I've not read the female Eunach, but I did read 'White Fella Jump Up'. Did you even read the above excerpt from that book that I quoted on the first page of this thread?

catefrances

just for the record, nothing that germaine greer said in that extract is anything i disagree with.

stardust1976

Byrnzie wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

If you are not living in the society how can you know the nuances.
How can you be an anarchist in a society , when you dont live in it.

lots of people have ideas, why is hers the only one you bring to the table. I find that interesting.
The female Eunach makes her an expert on everything ??

She was born and raised there. I was born in England but I've lived in Asia the past 4 years, so is anything I say about England now irrelevant?

And I've not read the female Eunach, but I did read 'White Fella Jump Up'. Did you even read the above excerpt from that book that I quoted on the first page of this thread?

I've read it. And I have to say, there is PLENTY that I disagree with. The first and foremost being the total and utter hypocrisy of her words. How can she claim to be wanting whitefellas to reverse the actions they have taken, when the actions they have taken have led to her being who she is and where she is today? She exists ONLY because of Europeans colonising Australia. The second hypocrisy I see, is the fact that she constantly states that no one living in inland Australia or rural areas has been there very long - that no one stays. She clearly has NOT been immersed in rural Australia. I have personally (meaning very very first hand experience, not quoted from a book), spoken to, and lived amongst people who have farmed the land for generations upon generations. How can she say that only blackfellas remain? ANd if she truly had emmersed herself in that culture as you so staunchly believe, she would understand that in most of these rural towns and outcrops, the Aboriginals live alongside white Australians, peacefully, no issues - no alcoholism, no violence. SHe clearly has little idea of what it means to live in Australia today. Perhaps some of her issues were relevant when she lived here, but 30 years IS a lifetime, and many steps towards change have been made in those 30 years. Without living here she doesn't have the chance to see those steps in action, and can not comment on them. Do I think there is a problem? YES. Do I think the Australian Government has a lot to do with the problem? YES. The biggest factor I can see, is the handing out of welfare payments. Whole communities are given lump sums of money each fortnight without having to work for it - no sense of self or direction is required. This leads to problems in ANY society, let alone one that is already troubled by a lack of, or loss of, identity. The solution has been slow coming, but it IS coming. Very slowly but surely the Government is putting into place programs to help Aboriginal communities get back that sense of identity that for so long has been denied. Most Australians that you speak to living here, will agree there is a problem, but most are also happy to learn about steps that are being taken to improve it. Yes, there is racism, but there is racism everywhere. We are a young nation, and giving the power of Government over to the Aboriginal elders would not fix the problem. We do not need to live as Aboriginals tell us - we need to respect their right to live how they choose and not impose our lifestyle on them,(and they need to respect OUR lifestyle as well), but to blithely say we need to become an Aboriginal country is niaive and wrong. We need to understand this is a shared nation, and as a truly multicultural society, allow ALL people to live there chosen life, whilst understanding that for the sake of society itself, there needs to be laws and regulations that govern our lives outside our own homes.
This is the way ALL nations need to run, in our global community. WHy is Germaine Greer, spouting on about Australians and Aboriginals when she no longer chooses to live here in our nation, with our people? She could just as easily visit America a few times and spout on about Americans needing to become an Indian nation? Why is it any different? It's not - and the way of the modern world needs to be understood by her and other 'academics'. Sitting in a university planning ways to make the world better is irrelevant. To make the world better, you don't need to write books or papers. You need to get out there and understand that actions speak louder than words. If she is so passionate about it, why is she not here living it and making a difference? Why is she not here helping with the problem? THAT is my problem with Germaine Greer. Hypocrisy, plain and simple - it's one thing that I cannot tolerate, and she has bucket loads of it.

Actions on ANY subject speak louder than words - and for ANYONE to make a difference on ANY subject, writing words on paper will never be the solution. Get out there and do something - if EVERYBODY contributes, then change ensues. Not from being an academic. Change comes from being committed enough to realise the issues and follow through with action - telling people what they are doing wrong will only ever result in getting someone's back up - showing them how to change and being committed to it personally will invoke a sense of respect and admiration, and result in more people wanting to commit to a cause, no matter what that cause is.

pjfan31

Byrnzie wrote:

Weird. I've never seen a blonde Aboriginal.

But then for most people - Australians especially - the Aboriginals don't exist.

Ouch... Can't paint us with the same brush.

pjfan31

I'm just going to run off and organise a packet of MnM's into alphabetical order

stardust1976

pjfan31 wrote:

I'm just going to run off and organise a packet of MnM's into alphabetical order

HAHA! This is funny - my three daughters were talking about exactly this the other day. Being that two of them are blonde and all! Is it bad to say the 8yr old blonde didn't get the joke AT ALL!?

pjfan31

Give her a few more years. Then if she doesn't get it it's time to worry.

My brother in law is a really intelligent guy, but jokes go over his head at times. He starts laughing like 5 minutes later

ONCE DEVIDED

Byrnzie wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

If you are not living in the society how can you know the nuances.
How can you be an anarchist in a society , when you dont live in it.

lots of people have ideas, why is hers the only one you bring to the table. I find that interesting.
The female Eunach makes her an expert on everything ??

She was born and raised there. I was born in England but I've lived in Asia the past 4 years, so is anything I say about England now irrelevant?

And I've not read the female Eunach, but I did read 'White Fella Jump Up'. Did you even read the above excerpt from that book that I quoted on the first page of this thread?

Having Studied
Australian Economic history. Including a large study of aboriginal economics
Sociology
Australian Sociology

having lived here for 41 years with a 6 month trip to europe.
I read about the first 200 words then skimmed that trash.
her views are plain simplistic and stupid.

we want a society in our country where everyone has the same chance regardless of sex, race and wealth .
You and her browbeat us for saying aboriginals have a problem with alcahol. its a fact but we are racist because we say it. Our government is racist beacuse it bans the use of alcahol in some communities.

I say give those kids in those communities a beter education is more inportant than allowing alcahol. but hey take us to the human rights commision over it

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

...
You and her browbeat us for saying aboriginals have a problem with alcahol. its a fact but we are racist because we say it. Our government is racist beacuse it bans the use of alcahol in some communities.

...

where in this passage is greer browbeating us...

good deal of energy has been expended on diagnosing the malaise that leads to high levels of alcoholism, addiction and crimes of violence in Aboriginal society. Whitefella spiritual desolation is seldom admitted, let alone discussed. Problem drinking affected whitefellas long before it made devastating inroads into Aboriginal society, and continues to wreak havoc today. It is one of a galaxy of self-destructive behaviours making a continuum with suicide, drug abuse, reckless driving and self-harming, all of which are rife in the "lucky" country.


just seems a statement of fact to me.

ONCE DEVIDED

didnt say that the browbeating was in that specific text.
study her work, her statments you will find plenty.

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

didnt say that the browbeating was in that specific text.
study her work, her statments you will find plenty.

oh i see... so you were referring to something she said that isnt evident in the extract byrnzie posted?

next time can you be more specific... makes it easier to debate. also makes it easier for us to know what youre talking about.

TriumphantAngel

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

didnt say that the browbeating was in that specific text.
study her work, her statments you will find plenty.

oh i see... so you were referring to something she said that isnt evident in the extract byrnzie posted?

next time can you be more specific... makes it easier to debate. also makes it easier for us to know what youre talking about.

i definitely agree with some of the things she said in the extract Byrnzie posted. not all though.

what she on an about when she talks of "feral" kids who occasionally attend secret gatherings deep in national forests where strange things are done and said and strange substances ingested? like it's something that's exclusive to Australia? no idea what she is on about.

ONCE DEVIDED

i definitely agree with some of the things she said in the extract Byrnzie posted. not all though.

what she on an about when she talks of "feral" kids who occasionally attend secret gatherings deep in national forests where strange things are done and said and strange substances ingested? like it's something that's exclusive to Australia? no idea what she is on about.[/quote]

and thats what pisses me off
its like Its only australians who have destroyed a civilisation. like its our fault what our forebears did.
we are left to fix what has happened. and most want to do just that, but we have to also wear the collective guilt as well.
not fair at all

ONCE DEVIDED

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

didnt say that the browbeating was in that specific text.
study her work, her statments you will find plenty.

oh i see... so you were referring to something she said that isnt evident in the extract byrnzie posted?

next time can you be more specific... makes it easier to debate. also makes it easier for us to know what youre talking about.

again I will say that I refuse to read all of that dribble. go back read how many times i said that. Now If i said i didnt read it
HOW CAN I QUOTE IT.
maybe actually reading what I said will help you understand what Im debating. I talked of her body of work, didnt I

Now im gunna quickly skim that documents for her brow beating just to make you smile
The day white Australians can look in the mirror and say 'I am Aboriginal' is the day their tormented country
hardly tormented
Blackfellas are not and never were the problem. They were the solution, if only whitefellas had been able to see it.
so the whitefellas are the problem are we
the country I love has been crazily devastated by whitefellas
yep thats right aint it
Australia's "sophisticated recreational lifestyle" comes at a huge cost in terms of non-renewable resources.
interesting that some of the biggest mines in this country are on aboriginal land but hey blame the white man
self-destructive behaviours making a continuum with suicide, drug abuse, reckless driving and self-harming, all of which are rife in the "lucky" country.

We hate this country because we cannot allow ourselves to love it. We know in our hearts' core that it is not ours.
I love this place, I love all of it, the bush , the desert. I was born here just like 50 thoasand years of aboriginals and 200 years of europeans have been born here. I have the same damn rights as the next person

just a few but it says plenty

Kat

a peeing contest about countries and pride in country? Fini.

Such an inflammatory article. Not ok. Thanks, all.