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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    And wait a second, I have to laugh...

    Non-smokers are terrible here for not being all "live and let live", imposing their (gasp) non-smoking opinions on people whose smoke bothers everyone around them...
    ...buuuuut, smokers who clearly don't give a damn about said people around them, are the victims because non-smokers just. dont. understand... how addictive smoking is.

    We kicked some guy out of our store a few months back for shooting up in our bathroom... we must be horrible because we all know how addictive heroin is.

    Regardless, the argument wasn't about ADDICTION.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    haffajappa wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Wow, scb, you sound angry.

    I just want to point out that as bad as cigarettes are for people in general, no one can make another person quit. It's got to come from within the smoker to decide what they want to do. Think about that with your sister. I know that if someone hated my bad habits, it would not make me stop them. I've got to want to quit for me for anything to happen. Give up that need to decide for your sister and she may just make the right decision.
    Okay, I'm a little confused...
    Who is trying to make anyone quit? People who complain aren't complaining that smokers smoke, people who complain do it because they don't wanna smell that shit while they work, or eat, or whatever.

    Are we all talking about different things?
    Yes in a few cases, reading through the posts, although time consuming, will make it clearer.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    haffajappa wrote:
    And wait a second, I have to laugh...

    Non-smokers are terrible here for not being all "live and let live", imposing their (gasp) non-smoking opinions on people whose smoke bothers everyone around them...
    ...buuuuut, smokers who clearly don't give a damn about said people around them, are the victims because non-smokers just. dont. understand... how addictive smoking is.

    We kicked some guy out of our store a few months back for shooting up in our bathroom... we must be horrible because we all know how addictive heroin is.

    Regardless, the argument wasn't about ADDICTION.
    And the smokers are complying with the bans in place. They are with the program to not smoke in restaurants, workplace etc only in designated areas. It is open air... in public.... on the street restraint that some smokers or like myself a non smoker feel is over the top.
    I feel there should be areas to smoke for smokers throughout their day.
    The discussion went to limiting smoking only to the smokers home or car.
    Some feel this is reasonable some don't.

    Addiction came into the discussion because many smokers would not have the pleasure to smoke for as much as 12 hours. For some smokers that would not be a problem for others it would be very stressful, even counter productive. As far as heroin or many of the other analogies, it is illegal.

    'Live and let live' would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?
    That implies the smokers and non smokers caring about each other, being courteous and giving,
    I guess a 2 way street...no pun intended ;)
    I'm afraid that will never happen.
    Not really here to discuss any longer because like most debates there is no solution, no resolution, its just people going back and around and sometimes getting heated.
  • stardust1976
    stardust1976 Posts: 1,301
    Here in Western Australia, we now have the toughest anti smoking laws in the country. It's illegal to smoke in a vehicle that has children in it, it's illegal to smoke at the beach, at a park, in indoor AND outdoor areas in restaurants and cafes, in clubs and pubs, and anywhere there are children around I think. Hasn't caused too many issues - but then I'm not a smoker, so I can't say if it's affected people or not. Personally - I think it's a good thing. Smoking sucks.
    http://giventoart.blogspot.com.au
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    stardust1976 wrote:
    Here in Western Australia, we now have the toughest anti smoking laws in the country. It's illegal to smoke in a vehicle that has children in it, it's illegal to smoke at the beach, at a park, in indoor AND outdoor areas in restaurants and cafes, in clubs and pubs, and anywhere there are children around I think. Hasn't caused too many issues - but then I'm not a smoker, so I can't say if it's affected people or not. Personally - I think it's a good thing. Smoking sucks.

    sounds like san diego and honestly it don't bother me too much either and I smoke.

    Godfather.
  • MG79478
    MG79478 Posts: 1,726
    pandora wrote:
    'Live and let live' would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?

    "Live and Let die" is more appropriate when talking about smokers!
    pandora wrote:
    That implies the smokers and non smokers caring about each other, being courteous and giving

    How a smoker should care for a non-smoker = never inconvenience them with your chosen habit
    How a non-smoker should care for a smoker = let them continue their habit in private, as long as it doesn't inconvenience a non-smoker. Really though, for a non-smoker to truly care for a smoker, they should try to get them to STOP SMOKING.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    MG79478 wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    'Live and let live' would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?

    "Live and Let die" is more appropriate when talking about smokers!
    pandora wrote:
    That implies the smokers and non smokers caring about each other, being courteous and giving

    How a smoker should care for a non-smoker = never inconvenience them with your chosen habit
    How a non-smoker should care for a smoker = let them continue their habit in private, as long as it doesn't inconvenience a non-smoker. Really though, for a non-smoker to truly care for a smoker, they should try to get them to STOP SMOKING.

    sooo the non smokers get to make the rules ? :lol:

    1) I will not not inconvenience a non smoker as long as the non smoker does not move into my space.
    2) let them continue their habit in PRIVATE ?, as long as it doesn't inconvenience a non-smoker ?. ...PRIVATES ASS and as I said...if you see me smoking just stay away. ;)
    3)get them to quit....thank you for your concern but...mind your own business,I'll quit with out your help when I'm ready.

    This has been a public service announcement for the rights of smokers world wide. :lol:

    Godfather.
  • MG79478
    MG79478 Posts: 1,726
    Godfather. wrote:
    sooo the non smokers get to make the rules ? :lol:

    1) I will not not inconvenience a non smoker as long as the non smoker does not move into my space.
    2) let them continue their habit in PRIVATE ?, as long as it doesn't inconvenience a non-smoker ?. ...PRIVATES ASS and as I said...if you see me smoking just stay away. ;)
    3)get them to quit....thank you for your concern but...mind your own business,I'll quit with out your help when I'm ready.
    This has been a public service announcement for the rights of smokers world wide. :lol:
    Godfather.

    Why shouldn't the non-smokers make the rules? They are the majority, and they are being negatively affected by the minority.

    1) There isn't much of a problem with that, as long as you are in a designated smoking area. I don't think a non-smoker should have to go out of their way to avoid you. Also, what if the situation dictates that the non-smoker can't avoid you. Imagine if the non-smoker was your boss, and urgently needs to talk to you while you were in the designated smoking area?
    2) I'm starting to even re-think being allowed to smoke in a car. I just made a quick trip away from work at lunch. I got to one of those LONG red lights, where if you miss it, you are stuck for 10 more minutes. Well the car in front of me sat there while I watched all the other cars pull away, turns out she was too busy lighting her cigarette to pay attention. I should have easily made it through that light, as well as a few cars behind me. The worst part about the 10 minute wait other than it doubling the length of my trip, was sitting there trying to enjoy the nice day with my window down, and smelling the lovely cigarette smoke. I am really glad that the smoker got to relax and enjoy their habit at that redlight for 10 minutes.
    3) Sensitive? When you smoke near me, it becomes my business. That was in response to "caring" about the smoker, to pandora that meant - letting them smoke. My point was that if you really "cared", you would nag them to stop. It's like saying you care about a heroin addict by letting him get high wherever he wants to.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    MG79478 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    sooo the non smokers get to make the rules ? :lol:

    1) I will not not inconvenience a non smoker as long as the non smoker does not move into my space.
    2) let them continue their habit in PRIVATE ?, as long as it doesn't inconvenience a non-smoker ?. ...PRIVATES ASS and as I said...if you see me smoking just stay away. ;)
    3)get them to quit....thank you for your concern but...mind your own business,I'll quit with out your help when I'm ready.
    This has been a public service announcement for the rights of smokers world wide. :lol:
    Godfather.

    Why shouldn't the non-smokers make the rules? They are the majority, and they are being negatively affected by the minority.

    1) There isn't much of a problem with that, as long as you are in a designated smoking area. I don't think a non-smoker should have to go out of their way to avoid you. Also, what if the situation dictates that the non-smoker can't avoid you. Imagine if the non-smoker was your boss, and urgently needs to talk to you while you were in the designated smoking area?
    2) I'm starting to even re-think being allowed to smoke in a car. I just made a quick trip away from work at lunch. I got to one of those LONG red lights, where if you miss it, you are stuck for 10 more minutes. Well the car in front of me sat there while I watched all the other cars pull away, turns out she was too busy lighting her cigarette to pay attention. I should have easily made it through that light, as well as a few cars behind me. The worst part about the 10 minute wait other than it doubling the length of my trip, was sitting there trying to enjoy the nice day with my window down, and smelling the lovely cigarette smoke. I am really glad that the smoker got to relax and enjoy their habit at that redlight for 10 minutes.
    3) Sensitive? When you smoke near me, it becomes my business. That was in response to "caring" about the smoker, to pandora that meant - letting them smoke. My point was that if you really "cared", you would nag them to stop. It's like saying you care about a heroin addict by letting him get high wherever he wants to.

    ez bronco, I am actually a very polite smoker and would agree with what you have said most of it anyway,
    I'm just laughing at all the posts put up by non smokers that seem to think the world revolves around their thoughts and wishes and smokers should comply with their ideas on smoking, btw what do you guys do when you go to a casino ?

    Godfather.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Diva is a word that suits maybe :lol:
    and
    nagging to make someone stop something is just dumb, it doesn't work, now bribery might work though ;):lol:
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    pandora wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    And wait a second, I have to laugh...

    Non-smokers are terrible here for not being all "live and let live", imposing their (gasp) non-smoking opinions on people whose smoke bothers everyone around them...
    ...buuuuut, smokers who clearly don't give a damn about said people around them, are the victims because non-smokers just. dont. understand... how addictive smoking is.

    We kicked some guy out of our store a few months back for shooting up in our bathroom... we must be horrible because we all know how addictive heroin is.

    Regardless, the argument wasn't about ADDICTION.
    And the smokers are complying with the bans in place. They are with the program to not smoke in restaurants, workplace etc only in designated areas. It is open air... in public.... on the street restraint that some smokers or like myself a non smoker feel is over the top.
    I feel there should be areas to smoke for smokers throughout their day.
    The discussion went to limiting smoking only to the smokers home or car.
    Some feel this is reasonable some don't.

    Addiction came into the discussion because many smokers would not have the pleasure to smoke for as much as 12 hours. For some smokers that would not be a problem for others it would be very stressful, even counter productive. As far as heroin or many of the other analogies, it is illegal.

    'Live and let live' would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?
    That implies the smokers and non smokers caring about each other, being courteous and giving,
    I guess a 2 way street...no pun intended ;)
    I'm afraid that will never happen.
    Not really here to discuss any longer because like most debates there is no solution, no resolution, its just people going back and around and sometimes getting heated.
    But the OP didn't say anything about on the street, so I don't know why everyone thought that's what it was.
    My points were that in a lot of cases (as i mentioned in my thread) the smokers DON'T obey the non-smoking areas.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    haffajappa wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    And the smokers are complying with the bans in place. They are with the program to not smoke in restaurants, workplace etc only in designated areas. It is open air... in public.... on the street restraint that some smokers or like myself a non smoker feel is over the top.
    I feel there should be areas to smoke for smokers throughout their day.
    The discussion went to limiting smoking only to the smokers home or car.
    Some feel this is reasonable some don't.

    Addiction came into the discussion because many smokers would not have the pleasure to smoke for as much as 12 hours. For some smokers that would not be a problem for others it would be very stressful, even counter productive. As far as heroin or many of the other analogies, it is illegal.

    'Live and let live' would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?
    That implies the smokers and non smokers caring about each other, being courteous and giving,
    I guess a 2 way street...no pun intended ;)
    I'm afraid that will never happen.
    Not really here to discuss any longer because like most debates there is no solution, no resolution, its just people going back and around and sometimes getting heated.
    But the OP didn't say anything about on the street, so I don't know why everyone thought that's what it was.
    My points were that in a lot of cases (as i mentioned in my thread) the smokers DON'T obey the non-smoking areas.

    You are very correct... early on I asked about the proposal to ban public street smoking that I had heard about and and wondered if that was truly being considered..I thought it an unreasonable ban.
    I was surprised to see the support for that.
    And I also agree that some people are not courteous with their smoking and don't follow the rules or bans.
    They ruin it for the smokers who are cool. But you can't totally disregard the smokers who are thoughtful.. those are the ones I run into. Very nice people who try to make my experience in a smoking environment more pleasurable...I don't smoke.
    That was why I said it would be wonderful in a Live and let live society where people thought about each others needs and wants, giving each other space to get along.
  • MG79478
    MG79478 Posts: 1,726
    Godfather. wrote:
    btw what do you guys do when you go to a casino?
    That's another bad habit I avoid. The few times I have been in casinos, I didn't notice any smoking. All I did notice was how depressing the clientel was. What do older people see in slot machines? They couldn't be any more boring! My normal trips to a casino are short, and just a diversion while doing something else, like Pearl Jam at the borgata. So I don't gamble, usually just hang out and watch and wonder why people don't quit when they are ahead.
    pandora wrote:
    That was why I said it would be wonderful in a Live and let live society where people thought about each others needs and wants, giving each other space to get along.

    I think i follow you:

    Smokers give the non-smokers clean air by not smoking in public (indoors or outdoors). Non-smokers pay the taxes that will cover the disproportionate medical costs of smokers in this new age of American socialism.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    haffajappa wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    And wait a second, I have to laugh...

    Non-smokers are terrible here for not being all "live and let live", imposing their (gasp) non-smoking opinions on people whose smoke bothers everyone around them...
    ...buuuuut, smokers who clearly don't give a damn about said people around them, are the victims because non-smokers just. dont. understand... how addictive smoking is.

    We kicked some guy out of our store a few months back for shooting up in our bathroom... we must be horrible because we all know how addictive heroin is.

    Regardless, the argument wasn't about ADDICTION.
    And the smokers are complying with the bans in place. They are with the program to not smoke in restaurants, workplace etc only in designated areas. It is open air... in public.... on the street restraint that some smokers or like myself a non smoker feel is over the top.
    I feel there should be areas to smoke for smokers throughout their day.
    The discussion went to limiting smoking only to the smokers home or car.
    Some feel this is reasonable some don't.

    Addiction came into the discussion because many smokers would not have the pleasure to smoke for as much as 12 hours. For some smokers that would not be a problem for others it would be very stressful, even counter productive. As far as heroin or many of the other analogies, it is illegal.

    'Live and let live' would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?
    That implies the smokers and non smokers caring about each other, being courteous and giving,
    I guess a 2 way street...no pun intended ;)
    I'm afraid that will never happen.
    Not really here to discuss any longer because like most debates there is no solution, no resolution, its just people going back and around and sometimes getting heated.
    But the OP didn't say anything about on the street, so I don't know why everyone thought that's what it was.
    My points were that in a lot of cases (as i mentioned in my thread) the smokers DON'T obey the non-smoking areas.

    and that's just straight up rude I can't stand that.

    Godfather.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    MG79478 wrote:
    [
    pandora wrote:
    That was why I said it would be wonderful in a Live and let live society where people thought about each others needs and wants, giving each other space to get along.

    I think i follow you:

    Smokers give the non-smokers clean air by not smoking in public (indoors or outdoors). Non-smokers pay the taxes that will cover the disproportionate medical costs of smokers in this new age of American socialism.
    no perhaps not
    smokers are courteous of others with their habit and stay in areas designated for public smoking
    nonsmokers respect the fact that there are people who smoke in designated areas

    theres really nothing to it
    oh and we all pay taxes for everyone who is in need and also for the governments huge deficit
    actually we pay taxes to cover just the interest on the huge government deficit...another thread
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    pandora wrote:
    [You are very correct... early on I asked about the proposal to ban public street smoking that I had heard about and and wondered if that was truly being considered..I thought it an unreasonable ban.
    I was surprised to see the support for that.
    And I also agree that some people are not courteous with their smoking and don't follow the rules or bans.
    They ruin it for the smokers who are cool. But you can't totally disregard the smokers who are thoughtful.. those are the ones I run into.

    Maybe it's just where I live, but i've met way too many smokers who don't care that much about other people and the environment, and unfortunatley, it does ruin it for the ones that are courteous like Cosmo and a few others in here. That is why (combined with education) I think smoking in public will become harder and harder in the years to come.

    Also, a few months back there was consideration in my county about banning smoking on the beach, but it didnt go very far. I had hoped it would be banned because I know too many people that discard their butts in the sand like it was an ashtray. I was with my father a few years ago and I saw him do it too, and almost shit my pants! but I realized that he might have been doing it since he was a kid. When I pointed it out to him, he was stubborn, but changed. Now he puts them in a can or something and throws them out.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    pandora wrote:
    no perhaps not
    smokers are courteous of others with their habit and stay in areas designated for public smoking
    nonsmokers respect the fact that there are people who smoke in designated areas

    theres really nothing to it
    oh and we all pay taxes for everyone who is in need and also for the governments huge deficit
    actually we pay taxes to cover just the interest on the huge government deficit...another thread
    ...
    If smokers are courteous... they why are there cigarette butts everywhere you go?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Cosmo wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    no perhaps not
    smokers are courteous of others with their habit and stay in areas designated for public smoking
    nonsmokers respect the fact that there are people who smoke in designated areas

    theres really nothing to it
    oh and we all pay taxes for everyone who is in need and also for the governments huge deficit
    actually we pay taxes to cover just the interest on the huge government deficit...another thread
    ...
    If smokers are courteous... they why are there cigarette butts everywhere you go?
    Cosmo this is the perfect world, the 'Live and Let Live' world that the other poster
    thought he understood but apparently did not.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    pandora wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    If smokers are courteous... they why are there cigarette butts everywhere you go?
    Cosmo this is the perfect world, the 'Live and Let Live' world that the other poster
    thought he understood but apparently did not.
    ...
    Still... if smokers were, indeed, courteous... wouldn't they show their courtesy by placing their discarded cigarette butts in the trash?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Cosmo wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    If smokers are courteous... they why are there cigarette butts everywhere you go?
    Cosmo this is the perfect world, the 'Live and Let Live' world that the other poster
    thought he understood but apparently did not.
    ...
    Still... if smokers were, indeed, courteous... wouldn't they show their courtesy by placing their discarded cigarette butts in the trash?
    one would think so thats why I mentioned a perfect world Cosmos... but not all smokers are messy, I'm sure you are not assuming that.
    We have very courteous people that smoke and courteous people who do not smoke and we have careless jerks who smoke and careless jerks who do smoke.
    We got all kinds.

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