You know, Heidi, I'm thinking maybe we should end this conversation before the wonderful relationship we have turns south.
I have no ill-will towards you, after all its just a discussion, and we both have our own opinions which probably have alot to do with how we are brought up. My wife tells me i lack sympathy (other than towards our kids) and she is probably correct, I was raised by a single parent (dad) and he is a very very very responsible person, and works extremely hard, and still only has his compnay car to drive, but yet is extemely wealthy (but you would never know, i didn't know until a few years ago). I get the personal responsibility from him, and the same with how i use my money. I know i do go a little far with generalization at time, mainly because I am a confrontational person. I have learn alot from your post, and i respect them. This discussion will go round and round in circles. But thanks for continuing in a mainly respective manner that you have.
Okay, well if it's an opportunity for them, it's an opportunity for you too. And it is a poverty draft. People join the military - as you just said you did, as my dad did, as many of my friends have, etc. - because they otherwise can't afford to get ahead. It's one of the few options for good employment for poor people.
When it comes out that way it sounds negative and disrespectful to me, your dad, your friends and the many men and women who have joined the military. Like I said it was not given but earned you do not "get" anything in the military you earn it.
And further, the military is more equal opportunity for advancement in the ranks than just about any "company" out there. It is earned through hard work, dedication and taking advantage of the training and schools that are available to ALL.
My brother is a retired firefighter(AF). Now working as a civilian fire chief for DoD. He is a big advocate for taking every available training course there is. Case in point. Remember that B2 bomber that crashed on take off a couple years ago in Guam? He was on-scene commander and all the training kicked in. Yes that way expensive plane was a total loss , but there was no loss of life and a few minor injuries because of the training provided.
This example may not exactly fit the discussion here but the flip side of this is my nephew in-law is a firefighter that works for my brother. You might think that would be a bonus for the son in-law but it's not. My brother cant understand why his son in-law wont take advantage of the training available to be able to advance in rank. He just wont do it. So he stays where he is.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I will tell you what gives me that impression Blacks make up 12% of the population and 40% of that population is on welfare, and looking at the stats teens make up a very small portion of that. So what that tells me is that there are people that could/should be working that are not. Food staps have also increased. This info plus my experience of where I live and some people I work with, I think I have a pretty well found opinion on why I think the way I do. Do you have any stats that back up your position.
Not sure where you get the 40% figure or how you define welfare.... are pell grants or map grants welfare. Just food stamps? LIHEAP?
But so the record is straight 25% of blacks are at or below the poverty line while 12% of whites are. Considering "whites" make up about 70% of the population it is then fact that there are far more whites at or below the poverty line thus whites take up a greater portion of the welfare dollars that you speak of.
So poor uneducated lazy white people are a far greater problem
You know, Heidi, I'm thinking maybe we should end this conversation before the wonderful relationship we have turns south.
I have no ill-will towards you, after all its just a discussion, and we both have our own opinions which probably have alot to do with how we are brought up. My wife tells me i lack sympathy (other than towards our kids) and she is probably correct, I was raised by a single parent (dad) and he is a very very very responsible person, and works extremely hard, and still only has his compnay car to drive, but yet is extemely wealthy (but you would never know, i didn't know until a few years ago). I get the personal responsibility from him, and the same with how i use my money. I know i do go a little far with generalization at time, mainly because I am a confrontational person. I have learn alot from your post, and i respect them. This discussion will go round and round in circles. But thanks for continuing in a mainly respective manner that you have.
I was raised in a very conservative Republican home and your dad sounds just like my grandfather. My perspective comes from my own life experience and education. I have lived most of my life in places where people of color are the majority and attended the poorest, least white schools in those places. I have experienced poverty, unintended pregnancy, and violence, and so have many of my friends. My degrees are in subjects whose purpose is to understand our society and the experiences of all the people - not just the people who are like us - and to ask how we can make things better. And through my job I work with many poor people of color facing extremely difficult circumstances, all of whom are wonderful, hard-working, compassionate people just trying to do the best they can in a hostile world. So I'm quite defensive on behalf of them, myself, and things I see as promoting that hostile world in opposition to the positive things many of are trying to accomplish.
Thanks for the nice post. Hope you have a good day.
i never understood the brouhaha about this. obama isnt a radical. his views on race relations and racism and all that are mainstream, non confrontational and pretty status quo.
its like those people who say hilary is a socialist. no matter what you do, you can never convince them of how ridiculous a statement that is.
I will tell you what gives me that impression Blacks make up 12% of the population and 40% of that population is on welfare, and looking at the stats teens make up a very small portion of that. So what that tells me is that there are people that could/should be working that are not. Food staps have also increased. This info plus my experience of where I live and some people I work with, I think I have a pretty well found opinion on why I think the way I do. Do you have any stats that back up your position.
Not sure where you get the 40% figure or how you define welfare.... are pell grants or map grants welfare. Just food stamps? LIHEAP?
But so the record is straight 25% of blacks are at or below the poverty line while 12% of whites are. Considering "whites" make up about 70% of the population it is then fact that there are far more whites at or below the poverty line thus whites take up a greater portion of the welfare dollars that you speak of.
So poor uneducated lazy white people are a far greater problem
I don't want to put a quote up that was as long as the news story you posted.
1st off, I have never said everything he has said is a lie. But I will hold to the fact that our government did not exist when slaves were first brought over. It is hard for a government to do all the things he claims when it was business owners who did the vast majority of the slave trade. Yes the government stood idly by and watched it, but Lincoln's administration also ended it.
I have already said that I agree with his stance on American foreign policy being one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason for the attacks on 9/11. But he also implies, by his tone, that any reaction would be wrong, that being filled with contempt for the attackers is wrong. Almost as if he is saying two wrongs make a Wright (see what I did there). I disagree with that line of thinking and you can see why it may not be the most popular, or seen as controversial, which would cause the media to pick up on the story.
If you really don't think Wright is radical then I don't know what else to tell you. Whether you agree or disagree you must admit he isn't the main stream
But that doesn't get back to the fact that when he was challenged on his HIV comments he backed off of them and simply said it was possible. that is why I think he is the dangerous, he purports things to be true that are completely out of left field. His congregation then begins to believe the outlandish, that the government is not just apathetic towards them but actively working against them to subvert them at every turn.
It isn't sexual promescuity and unsafe needle use that leads to most cases of HIV, it is the government giving it to you to keep you down.
It isn't your fault you aren't moving up in the world, it is because this all seeing all powerful government is actively keeping you down and it is impossible to improve your place in life.
It isn't your fault you are addicted to crack, it is the Governments fault for deliberately inventing it to give to you.
Do you see how damaging that line of thinking can be?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I don't want to put a quote up that was as long as the news story you posted.
1st off, I have never said everything he has said is a lie. But I will hold to the fact that our government did not exist when slaves were first brought over. It is hard for a government to do all the things he claims when it was business owners who did the vast majority of the slave trade. Yes the government stood idly by and watched it, but Lincoln's administration also ended it.
I have already said that I agree with his stance on American foreign policy being one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason for the attacks on 9/11. But he also implies, by his tone, that any reaction would be wrong, that being filled with contempt for the attackers is wrong. Almost as if he is saying two wrongs make a Wright (see what I did there). I disagree with that line of thinking and you can see why it may not be the most popular, or seen as controversial, which would cause the media to pick up on the story.
If you really don't think Wright is radical then I don't know what else to tell you. Whether you agree or disagree you must admit he isn't the main stream
But that doesn't get back to the fact that when he was challenged on his HIV comments he backed off of them and simply said it was possible. that is why I think he is the dangerous, he purports things to be true that are completely out of left field. His congregation then begins to believe the outlandish, that the government is not just apathetic towards them but actively working against them to subvert them at every turn.
It isn't sexual promescuity and unsafe needle use that leads to most cases of HIV, it is the government giving it to you to keep you down.
It isn't your fault you aren't moving up in the world, it is because this all seeing all powerful government is actively keeping you down and it is impossible to improve your place in life.
It isn't your fault you are addicted to crack, it is the Governments fault for deliberately inventing it to give to you.
Do you see how damaging that line of thinking can be?
i just believe he wanted people to think
not just to listen to what they are told
they were treated worse than dogs for hundreds of years
by this government
and only the whippings have stopped
how would you feel?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
I don't want to put a quote up that was as long as the news story you posted.
1st off, I have never said everything he has said is a lie. But I will hold to the fact that our government did not exist when slaves were first brought over. It is hard for a government to do all the things he claims when it was business owners who did the vast majority of the slave trade. Yes the government stood idly by and watched it, but Lincoln's administration also ended it.
I have already said that I agree with his stance on American foreign policy being one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason for the attacks on 9/11. But he also implies, by his tone, that any reaction would be wrong, that being filled with contempt for the attackers is wrong. Almost as if he is saying two wrongs make a Wright (see what I did there). I disagree with that line of thinking and you can see why it may not be the most popular, or seen as controversial, which would cause the media to pick up on the story.
If you really don't think Wright is radical then I don't know what else to tell you. Whether you agree or disagree you must admit he isn't the main stream
But that doesn't get back to the fact that when he was challenged on his HIV comments he backed off of them and simply said it was possible. that is why I think he is the dangerous, he purports things to be true that are completely out of left field. His congregation then begins to believe the outlandish, that the government is not just apathetic towards them but actively working against them to subvert them at every turn.
It isn't sexual promescuity and unsafe needle use that leads to most cases of HIV, it is the government giving it to you to keep you down.
It isn't your fault you aren't moving up in the world, it is because this all seeing all powerful government is actively keeping you down and it is impossible to improve your place in life.
It isn't your fault you are addicted to crack, it is the Governments fault for deliberately inventing it to give to you.
Do you see how damaging that line of thinking can be?
i just believe he wanted people to think
not just to listen to what they are told
they were treated worse than dogs for hundreds of years
by this government
and only the whippings have stopped
how would you feel?
I disagree with the premise that only the whippings have stopped...It is that kind of rhetoric that does not allow for progress. If the leaders of a group are always harping on the past and not looking at the improvements, how can there be any?
Agreed that the slave situation was terrible, but to say the government was the sole one responsible and is still actively working against a gourp of people is absurd. It wasn't about making people think, it was about making people think that the government hates them and only lies to them..there is a big difference there.
I am all for outspoken people, but when you import lies into all the truths you are telling, it isn't helpful and people will begin to demonize you...which they are doing with him.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I don't want to put a quote up that was as long as the news story you posted.
1st off, I have never said everything he has said is a lie. But I will hold to the fact that our government did not exist when slaves were first brought over. It is hard for a government to do all the things he claims when it was business owners who did the vast majority of the slave trade. Yes the government stood idly by and watched it, but Lincoln's administration also ended it.
I have already said that I agree with his stance on American foreign policy being one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason for the attacks on 9/11. But he also implies, by his tone, that any reaction would be wrong, that being filled with contempt for the attackers is wrong. Almost as if he is saying two wrongs make a Wright (see what I did there). I disagree with that line of thinking and you can see why it may not be the most popular, or seen as controversial, which would cause the media to pick up on the story.
If you really don't think Wright is radical then I don't know what else to tell you. Whether you agree or disagree you must admit he isn't the main stream
But that doesn't get back to the fact that when he was challenged on his HIV comments he backed off of them and simply said it was possible. that is why I think he is the dangerous, he purports things to be true that are completely out of left field. His congregation then begins to believe the outlandish, that the government is not just apathetic towards them but actively working against them to subvert them at every turn.
It isn't sexual promescuity and unsafe needle use that leads to most cases of HIV, it is the government giving it to you to keep you down.
It isn't your fault you aren't moving up in the world, it is because this all seeing all powerful government is actively keeping you down and it is impossible to improve your place in life.
It isn't your fault you are addicted to crack, it is the Governments fault for deliberately inventing it to give to you.
Do you see how damaging that line of thinking can be?
i just believe he wanted people to think
not just to listen to what they are told
they were treated worse than dogs for hundreds of years
by this government
and only the whippings have stopped
how would you feel?
I disagree with the premise that only the whippings have stopped...It is that kind of rhetoric that does not allow for progress. If the leaders of a group are always harping on the past and not looking at the improvements, how can there be any?
Agreed that the slave situation was terrible, but to say the government was the sole one responsible and is still actively working against a gourp of people is absurd. It wasn't about making people think, it was about making people think that the government hates them and only lies to them..there is a big difference there.
I am all for outspoken people, but when you import lies into all the truths you are telling, it isn't helpful and people will begin to demonize you...which they are doing with him.
mike
our government hates and lies
wake up
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
If they were really scared of this man, and he was telling the truth and they are as evil as you think, they would have killed him by now. Wake up
I hate that by the way, because I don't think the government hates minorities I must have my head in the sand...My eyes are wide open, you may want to step back and realize that the only person you can truly blame for your place in life is yourself. I used to blame everyone possible for the problems I was having, it wasn't until I took ownership of them that I was able to succeed
Our government does not hate. it is impossible for a government to hate. It isn't a living breathing thing.
We have a minority president, minority senators and reps, how hateful can the government made up of these people be?
If you constantly tell people the government will always keep you down they will stop trying, it becomes a self defeating prophecy.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
What's the difference between Wright and Fox News (for instance)? (Except that the latter has a wider audience, of course.)
you should include all "news" sources in that...msnbc, cnn, nbc, cbs, abc, cnbc, bloomberg news, the ap, all sorts of them...they are all the same. Half truths and exaggeration...
But the main difference between them is that religion is an institution, people hear something from their church it has much more weight than anything based in fact can have. Case in point, religion in general. Also, the idea the earth was made 6,000 years ago and that god created all things just as the bible says. People believe that in the face of overwhleming evidence against the theory. Church and religion have a much bigger influence on the way people think and shape their views and if the leaders are extremist and say inflammatory things that are lies and hold them to be true, it is very dangerous.
at least thatis the difference I see...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I hate that by the way, because I don't think the government hates minorities I must have my head in the sand...My eyes are wide open, you may want to step back and realize that the only person you can truly blame for your place in life is yourself.
I don't think, generally speaking, things are as much about blaming others for one's place in life as they are made out to be. People can both take personal responsibility for their lives AND point out flawed systems when they see them. In fact, I would suggest that we have a personal responsibility to point out flaw in our system.
What's the difference between Wright and Fox News (for instance)? (Except that the latter has a wider audience, of course.)
you should include all "news" sources in that...msnbc, cnn, nbc, cbs, abc, cnbc, bloomberg news, the ap, all sorts of them...they are all the same. Half truths and exaggeration...
But the main difference between them is that religion is an institution, people hear something from their church it has much more weight than anything based in fact can have. Case in point, religion in general. Also, the idea the earth was made 6,000 years ago and that god created all things just as the bible says. People believe that in the face of overwhleming evidence against the theory. Church and religion have a much bigger influence on the way people think and shape their views and if the leaders are extremist and say inflammatory things that are lies and hold them to be true, it is very dangerous.
at least thatis the difference I see...
Eh... I think if we're comparing Wright to the media as a whole, the media is immeasurably more powerful - and therefore more dangerous. I think our outrage would be more useful aimed in their direction.
Wright is just a drop in the bucket. Case in point, most of us had never even heard of him until the media decided we should know of - and dislike - him. Wright is not controlling anyone. But we are all being controlled right now when we think he is that powerful.
Eh... I think if we're comparing Wright to the media as a whole, the media is immeasurably more powerful - and therefore more dangerous. I think our outrage would be more useful aimed in their direction.
Wright is just a drop in the bucket. Case in point, most of us had never even heard of him until the media decided we should know of - and dislike - him. Wright is not controlling anyone. But we are all being controlled right now when we think he is that powerful.
It isn't so much Wright himself, but all the religious leaders like him. If you cannot see that extreme religious leaders are much more dangrous than the media will ever be I don't know what else to tell you. Muslim extremism, christian fundamentalism, religious cults, the catholic church...All of these have done far more damage to the world than any media source ever will.
Most people don't pay attention to the news at all, but a huge amount go to church. It is dangerous when those religious leaders lie.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I hate that by the way, because I don't think the government hates minorities I must have my head in the sand...My eyes are wide open, you may want to step back and realize that the only person you can truly blame for your place in life is yourself.
I don't think, generally speaking, things are as much about blaming others for one's place in life as they are made out to be. People can both take personal responsibility for their lives AND point out flawed systems when they see them. In fact, I would suggest that we have a personal responsibility to point out flaw in our system.
At the end of the day, you can talk about how crappy your life is all day long and all the bad things that have happened to you, but no one is forcing you to do drugs...No one is keeping you from going to school...no one is keeping you from graduating from high school, no one is keeping you from improving your life...will you live like a millionaire?...probably not...All people who choose to drop out of high school make that choice, no one is making it for them...
Thinking that drug users shouldn't be in prison but in treatment is one way people are allowed to not take responsibility for their actions. Drugs are illegal, and until they aren't people who use them should be punished. I would much rather see a day when you can use any drug you like, but until that day... rules need to be followed and addiction isn't enough of a reason to excuse the behavior.
As to the last part of it, while it may be necessary to point out flaws in a system, I think it becomes a compulsion to do so. To always look at every situation for a reason...Remember I majored in sociology, I understand how that area of academics works, and the allowance for personal responsibility is not there. There may be a reason that someone chooses a course of action, but they are still allowed the choice.
People become successful in our country not despite our system, but because of it.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Eh... I think if we're comparing Wright to the media as a whole, the media is immeasurably more powerful - and therefore more dangerous. I think our outrage would be more useful aimed in their direction.
Wright is just a drop in the bucket. Case in point, most of us had never even heard of him until the media decided we should know of - and dislike - him. Wright is not controlling anyone. But we are all being controlled right now when we think he is that powerful.
It isn't so much Wright himself, but all the religious leaders like him. If you cannot see that extreme religious leaders are much more dangrous than the media will ever be I don't know what else to tell you. Muslim extremism, christian fundamentalism, religious cults, the catholic church...All of these have done far more damage to the world than any media source ever will.
Most people don't pay attention to the news at all, but a huge amount go to church. It is dangerous when those religious leaders lie.
Hmm... I wonder how many people watch/read/listen to the news vs. how many go to churches with "extreme" religious leaders. And how many more such leaders are there out there supporting Wright's ideas? I don't think the power of "extreme religious leaders" can be added together and measured as a whole unless their message is the same.
I hate that by the way, because I don't think the government hates minorities I must have my head in the sand...My eyes are wide open, you may want to step back and realize that the only person you can truly blame for your place in life is yourself.
I don't think, generally speaking, things are as much about blaming others for one's place in life as they are made out to be. People can both take personal responsibility for their lives AND point out flawed systems when they see them. In fact, I would suggest that we have a personal responsibility to point out flaw in our system.
At the end of the day, you can talk about how crappy your life is all day long and all the bad things that have happened to you, but no one is forcing you to do drugs...No one is keeping you from going to school...no one is keeping you from graduating from high school, no one is keeping you from improving your life...will you live like a millionaire?...probably not...All people who choose to drop out of high school make that choice, no one is making it for them...
Thinking that drug users shouldn't be in prison but in treatment is one way people are allowed to not take responsibility for their actions. Drugs are illegal, and until they aren't people who use them should be punished. I would much rather see a day when you can use any drug you like, but until that day... rules need to be followed and addiction isn't enough of a reason to excuse the behavior.
As to the last part of it, while it may be necessary to point out flaws in a system, I think it becomes a compulsion to do so. To always look at every situation for a reason...Remember I majored in sociology, I understand how that area of academics works, and the allowance for personal responsibility is not there. There may be a reason that someone chooses a course of action, but they are still allowed the choice.
People become successful in our country not despite our system, but because of it.
Whether or not an individual is forced to drop out of school, etc., doesn't change the fact that our social systems - which are a force in themselves - need improvement. Perhaps we need a more clear definition of choice. Choice is relative, and some people have more/truer choice than others. Our social systems should not serve to limit that choice. They especially should not limit choice for some people and not for others and then pretend that everyone has equal choice.
I think throwing drug users in prison is a way for society to shirk responsibility, so that goes both ways.
I don't understand why you majored in sociology if you prefer to focus on individual actions rather than social systems. Maybe you should have majored in psychology. But the fact that personal responsibility is not part of sociology is meaningless. I majored in women studies. That doesn't mean there is no allowance for men in our society.
As for your last statement, I don't know how you can make such a generalization. Some people become successful because of our system. Other people become successful despite it. Some systems are more conducive to success than our system. Others systems are less conducive to success than our system.
Comments
My brother is a retired firefighter(AF). Now working as a civilian fire chief for DoD. He is a big advocate for taking every available training course there is. Case in point. Remember that B2 bomber that crashed on take off a couple years ago in Guam? He was on-scene commander and all the training kicked in. Yes that way expensive plane was a total loss , but there was no loss of life and a few minor injuries because of the training provided.
This example may not exactly fit the discussion here but the flip side of this is my nephew in-law is a firefighter that works for my brother. You might think that would be a bonus for the son in-law but it's not. My brother cant understand why his son in-law wont take advantage of the training available to be able to advance in rank. He just wont do it. So he stays where he is.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not sure where you get the 40% figure or how you define welfare.... are pell grants or map grants welfare. Just food stamps? LIHEAP?
But so the record is straight 25% of blacks are at or below the poverty line while 12% of whites are. Considering "whites" make up about 70% of the population it is then fact that there are far more whites at or below the poverty line thus whites take up a greater portion of the welfare dollars that you speak of.
So poor uneducated lazy white people are a far greater problem
I was raised in a very conservative Republican home and your dad sounds just like my grandfather. My perspective comes from my own life experience and education. I have lived most of my life in places where people of color are the majority and attended the poorest, least white schools in those places. I have experienced poverty, unintended pregnancy, and violence, and so have many of my friends. My degrees are in subjects whose purpose is to understand our society and the experiences of all the people - not just the people who are like us - and to ask how we can make things better. And through my job I work with many poor people of color facing extremely difficult circumstances, all of whom are wonderful, hard-working, compassionate people just trying to do the best they can in a hostile world. So I'm quite defensive on behalf of them, myself, and things I see as promoting that hostile world in opposition to the positive things many of are trying to accomplish.
Thanks for the nice post. Hope you have a good day.
Your right. Racist people make me sick.
its like those people who say hilary is a socialist. no matter what you do, you can never convince them of how ridiculous a statement that is.
excellent post....
1st off, I have never said everything he has said is a lie. But I will hold to the fact that our government did not exist when slaves were first brought over. It is hard for a government to do all the things he claims when it was business owners who did the vast majority of the slave trade. Yes the government stood idly by and watched it, but Lincoln's administration also ended it.
I have already said that I agree with his stance on American foreign policy being one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason for the attacks on 9/11. But he also implies, by his tone, that any reaction would be wrong, that being filled with contempt for the attackers is wrong. Almost as if he is saying two wrongs make a Wright (see what I did there). I disagree with that line of thinking and you can see why it may not be the most popular, or seen as controversial, which would cause the media to pick up on the story.
If you really don't think Wright is radical then I don't know what else to tell you. Whether you agree or disagree you must admit he isn't the main stream
But that doesn't get back to the fact that when he was challenged on his HIV comments he backed off of them and simply said it was possible. that is why I think he is the dangerous, he purports things to be true that are completely out of left field. His congregation then begins to believe the outlandish, that the government is not just apathetic towards them but actively working against them to subvert them at every turn.
It isn't sexual promescuity and unsafe needle use that leads to most cases of HIV, it is the government giving it to you to keep you down.
It isn't your fault you aren't moving up in the world, it is because this all seeing all powerful government is actively keeping you down and it is impossible to improve your place in life.
It isn't your fault you are addicted to crack, it is the Governments fault for deliberately inventing it to give to you.
Do you see how damaging that line of thinking can be?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
i just believe he wanted people to think
not just to listen to what they are told
they were treated worse than dogs for hundreds of years
by this government
and only the whippings have stopped
how would you feel?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
I disagree with the premise that only the whippings have stopped...It is that kind of rhetoric that does not allow for progress. If the leaders of a group are always harping on the past and not looking at the improvements, how can there be any?
Agreed that the slave situation was terrible, but to say the government was the sole one responsible and is still actively working against a gourp of people is absurd. It wasn't about making people think, it was about making people think that the government hates them and only lies to them..there is a big difference there.
I am all for outspoken people, but when you import lies into all the truths you are telling, it isn't helpful and people will begin to demonize you...which they are doing with him.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
mike
our government hates and lies
wake up
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
If they were really scared of this man, and he was telling the truth and they are as evil as you think, they would have killed him by now. Wake up
I hate that by the way, because I don't think the government hates minorities I must have my head in the sand...My eyes are wide open, you may want to step back and realize that the only person you can truly blame for your place in life is yourself. I used to blame everyone possible for the problems I was having, it wasn't until I took ownership of them that I was able to succeed
Our government does not hate. it is impossible for a government to hate. It isn't a living breathing thing.
We have a minority president, minority senators and reps, how hateful can the government made up of these people be?
If you constantly tell people the government will always keep you down they will stop trying, it becomes a self defeating prophecy.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
But the main difference between them is that religion is an institution, people hear something from their church it has much more weight than anything based in fact can have. Case in point, religion in general. Also, the idea the earth was made 6,000 years ago and that god created all things just as the bible says. People believe that in the face of overwhleming evidence against the theory. Church and religion have a much bigger influence on the way people think and shape their views and if the leaders are extremist and say inflammatory things that are lies and hold them to be true, it is very dangerous.
at least thatis the difference I see...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I don't think, generally speaking, things are as much about blaming others for one's place in life as they are made out to be. People can both take personal responsibility for their lives AND point out flawed systems when they see them. In fact, I would suggest that we have a personal responsibility to point out flaw in our system.
Eh... I think if we're comparing Wright to the media as a whole, the media is immeasurably more powerful - and therefore more dangerous. I think our outrage would be more useful aimed in their direction.
Wright is just a drop in the bucket. Case in point, most of us had never even heard of him until the media decided we should know of - and dislike - him. Wright is not controlling anyone. But we are all being controlled right now when we think he is that powerful.
Most people don't pay attention to the news at all, but a huge amount go to church. It is dangerous when those religious leaders lie.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Thinking that drug users shouldn't be in prison but in treatment is one way people are allowed to not take responsibility for their actions. Drugs are illegal, and until they aren't people who use them should be punished. I would much rather see a day when you can use any drug you like, but until that day... rules need to be followed and addiction isn't enough of a reason to excuse the behavior.
As to the last part of it, while it may be necessary to point out flaws in a system, I think it becomes a compulsion to do so. To always look at every situation for a reason...Remember I majored in sociology, I understand how that area of academics works, and the allowance for personal responsibility is not there. There may be a reason that someone chooses a course of action, but they are still allowed the choice.
People become successful in our country not despite our system, but because of it.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Hmm... I wonder how many people watch/read/listen to the news vs. how many go to churches with "extreme" religious leaders. And how many more such leaders are there out there supporting Wright's ideas? I don't think the power of "extreme religious leaders" can be added together and measured as a whole unless their message is the same.
Whether or not an individual is forced to drop out of school, etc., doesn't change the fact that our social systems - which are a force in themselves - need improvement. Perhaps we need a more clear definition of choice. Choice is relative, and some people have more/truer choice than others. Our social systems should not serve to limit that choice. They especially should not limit choice for some people and not for others and then pretend that everyone has equal choice.
I think throwing drug users in prison is a way for society to shirk responsibility, so that goes both ways.
I don't understand why you majored in sociology if you prefer to focus on individual actions rather than social systems. Maybe you should have majored in psychology. But the fact that personal responsibility is not part of sociology is meaningless. I majored in women studies. That doesn't mean there is no allowance for men in our society.
As for your last statement, I don't know how you can make such a generalization. Some people become successful because of our system. Other people become successful despite it. Some systems are more conducive to success than our system. Others systems are less conducive to success than our system.