obama and rev. wright......

Blockhead

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aa is righteous and necessary. do you think there would be any african american coaches in football if there was no AA? no, it is mandated by the league that there have to be a certain number of minorites interviewed for each coaching position. they did that because nfl owners were an old boys club that looked after their own. that is just one example. i am talking about jobs in general. everyone deserves the same opportunity.

how about dropout rates are increasing because no child left behind was not just underfunded, but in many cases unfunded. kids are taught to excel on the standardized tests so that if they do well the school will get funding. if they do poorly they lose funding. as a result teachers have to teach for that test as opposed to a well rounded curriculum. around here, the city schools with the high african american and latino populations have high dropout rates for several reasons.. 1. lack of teachers. 2. large numbers of kids in each class, and with less teachers the student to teacher ratio makes it impossible to give quality education to every individual. 3. in many cases these kids have multiple siblings and are in a single parent household, so they drop out to get a job to help support their family. i could go on but i dont feel like sitting here all noght researching this stuff. it is all out there on the internet, how about you look it up and report back to us...

That isn't research, you also forgot #4 Kids not wanting to learn or showing up to school. Why don't you research the attendance at those innercity schools. #5 Parents not being parents, helping their kids study. In our area last year, the inner city folks used back to school money from the gov, not to buy items for their kids, but to buy x-box games and other electronic itmes. Point #1 it is very hard to find a teaching job these days. So you are making that up. #2. I got a great quaility education at UK with 300 + students in several ofmy classes. I also had large classes in high school and i got a fine education. #3 is not an excuse, maybe the parents shouldn't have children that they can't afford, and the gov shouldn't contiune to pay people on welfare who continue to have kids.
AA only makes things worse, and now there is no longer an even playing field. Now people are gettin gjobs based on skin color which is the definition of racism. I don't know how anybody could support that.

Blockhead

scb wrote:

Someone's actually ASKING me for stats!?!? :geek: I'll be sure and find some for you.

But in the meantime, I don't think your statistic backs up your position at all. You're saying that African American people are disproportionately poor. No shit. We all agree on that. It's your assessment of why they're poor that's being questioned. You think they're poor because they should be working but aren't (i.e. they're lazy, right?). I think they're poor because they don't have the same opportunities and, even when they do, they are starting way behind in the race. It takes more than a generation or two to break free of a history of oppression, and institutional racism still exists. Don't make me re-post my article about the invisible knapsack of white privilege.

Name me one opportunity that they do not recieve?
I told you already about how Minority companies are GIVEN jobs. Well when you have alot of public jobs going on in the City like we do in CIncinnati, and all the Trade COntractors are required to hire Minority businesses as subs, then you have alot of minority business working, and they have to have the workers to work these jobs so they hire - guess who??? Thats right minorities. Like my company is 90% black. And guess what you would think in a time like this that they would show up to work. But guess what, many, 8 to be exact have been fired because they won't show up to work, these are people with families. They very rarely put in 40 hours a week.
You have no idea how long it takes to break free of oppression. Many of the managers I work with have broken free from it. So why can't others,

gimmesometruth27

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aa is righteous and necessary. do you think there would be any african american coaches in football if there was no AA? no, it is mandated by the league that there have to be a certain number of minorites interviewed for each coaching position. they did that because nfl owners were an old boys club that looked after their own. that is just one example. i am talking about jobs in general. everyone deserves the same opportunity.

how about dropout rates are increasing because no child left behind was not just underfunded, but in many cases unfunded. kids are taught to excel on the standardized tests so that if they do well the school will get funding. if they do poorly they lose funding. as a result teachers have to teach for that test as opposed to a well rounded curriculum. around here, the city schools with the high african american and latino populations have high dropout rates for several reasons.. 1. lack of teachers. 2. large numbers of kids in each class, and with less teachers the student to teacher ratio makes it impossible to give quality education to every individual. 3. in many cases these kids have multiple siblings and are in a single parent household, so they drop out to get a job to help support their family. i could go on but i dont feel like sitting here all noght researching this stuff. it is all out there on the internet, how about you look it up and report back to us...

That isn't research, you also forgot #4 Kids not wanting to learn or showing up to school. Why don't you research the attendance at those innercity schools. #5 Parents not being parents, helping their kids study. In our area last year, the inner city folks used back to school money from the gov, not to buy items for their kids, but to buy x-box games and other electronic itmes. Point #1 it is very hard to find a teaching job these days. So you are making that up. #2. I got a great quaility education at UK with 300 + students in several ofmy classes. I also had large classes in high school and i got a fine education. #3 is not an excuse, maybe the parents shouldn't have children that they can't afford, and the gov shouldn't contiune to pay people on welfare who continue to have kids.
AA only makes things worse, and now there is no longer an even playing field. Now people are gettin gjobs based on skin color which is the definition of racism. I don't know how anybody could support that.

i will give you number 4, but that is not nearly the number of kids you make it out to be. as far as attendance goes, how are the kids gonna get to school? most of the inner city schools here do not even have busses, so the kids have to cab it (at the expense of the school district) or find a ride somewhere else. and if it is a single parent household many times the parents can't take them. have you ever worked in a school???? i used to for 7 years before i took my current job. they were having to lay off teachers left and right and cut pay for the ones they kept to stay within their budget for the lasy 5 years i was there, as a result class size skyrocketed. and when you have more kids for each teacher, law of averages says some will do well but more will struggle or ultimately fail. its simple mathematics right there. i experienced it so you can not tell me i am making this shit up. as far as getting a great education at UK, that is a college lecture hall, not a high school. college kids attend class because they want to be there and they are paying for it, not the state like a high school. all of us with a degree or two have attended courses with 300+ students in them so that is not a major accomplishment. and my number 3 is not an excuse, it is a FACT. so you say the government should cut off people on welfare that have more kids? how will the family survive if their stipend is cut off?

_

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aa is righteous and necessary. do you think there would be any african american coaches in football if there was no AA? no, it is mandated by the league that there have to be a certain number of minorites interviewed for each coaching position. they did that because nfl owners were an old boys club that looked after their own. that is just one example. i am talking about jobs in general. everyone deserves the same opportunity.

how about dropout rates are increasing because no child left behind was not just underfunded, but in many cases unfunded. kids are taught to excel on the standardized tests so that if they do well the school will get funding. if they do poorly they lose funding. as a result teachers have to teach for that test as opposed to a well rounded curriculum. around here, the city schools with the high african american and latino populations have high dropout rates for several reasons.. 1. lack of teachers. 2. large numbers of kids in each class, and with less teachers the student to teacher ratio makes it impossible to give quality education to every individual. 3. in many cases these kids have multiple siblings and are in a single parent household, so they drop out to get a job to help support their family. i could go on but i dont feel like sitting here all noght researching this stuff. it is all out there on the internet, how about you look it up and report back to us...

That isn't research, you also forgot #4 Kids not wanting to learn or showing up to school. Why don't you research the attendance at those innercity schools. #5 Parents not being parents, helping their kids study. In our area last year, the inner city folks used back to school money from the gov, not to buy items for their kids, but to buy x-box games and other electronic itmes. Point #1 it is very hard to find a teaching job these days. So you are making that up. #2. I got a great quaility education at UK with 300 + students in several ofmy classes. I also had large classes in high school and i got a fine education. #3 is not an excuse, maybe the parents shouldn't have children that they can't afford, and the gov shouldn't contiune to pay people on welfare who continue to have kids.

You can't be serious!! Seriously?? You've got to be kidding!

#4 You can't blame kids for anything. They're kids for God's sake.

#5 We went through this all before in the thread where you were whining about poor people not having a good hockey coach or some such thing. Parents who have to work all the time don't have as much time to study with their kids. And since you're so up on statistics, I'd like to know exactly what proportion of inner city folks used back to school money for x-box games for you to be citing that as a reason for poor graduation rates.

#1 Making that up??? WTF??? It's hard to find teaching jobs AND there aren't enough teachers because schools are fucking broke. And schools in poor neighborhoods are particularly broke since property taxes pay are what's used to fund the neighborhood schools (at least here, anyway).

#2 Are you for fucking real??!!?? Even the most ridiculous conservatives I know know that large class sizes make for poorer educations. And you're suggesting that 300 kids should be fine?! How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously with that kind of nonsense?

#3 First of all, if you think needing to drop out of school to help support your family is irrelevant than you truly have no fucking clue about the real world for so many of the people you claim to have special knowledge of. Secondly, about having kids... I think my head is going to explode. You don't have the slightest fucking idea what you're talking about. Not even a little bit of a clue.
:evil:

Dirtie_Frank

scb wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Ok I was accepted to the military but I worked and earned for what I got. What a way to twist my words. I did not become accepted to Army because I am white.

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Like I said it wan't like there was a line of guys enlisting in the Army and they chose me since I was white and not the other since they are black, hispanic, asian, etc...

I'm not sure I'm clear about what you're saying and don't want to assume. Are you suggesting that people of color were chosen because of their race?

No what I am saying is that no one enlists and is accepted into the military based on color or religion or whatever else. All you need is to have a GED and be somewhat physically fit.

Blockhead

scb wrote:

You can't be serious!! Seriously?? You've got to be kidding!

#4 You can't blame kids for anything. They're kids for God's sake.

#5 We went through this all before in the thread where you were whining about poor people not having a good hockey coach or some such thing. Parents who have to work all the time don't have as much time to study with their kids. And since you're so up on statistics, I'd like to know exactly what proportion of inner city folks used back to school money for x-box games for you to be citing that as a reason for poor graduation rates.

#1 Making that up??? WTF??? It's hard to find teaching jobs AND there aren't enough teachers because schools are fucking broke. And schools in poor neighborhoods are particularly broke since property taxes pay are what's used to fund the neighborhood schools (at least here, anyway).

#2 Are you for fucking real??!!?? Even the most ridiculous conservatives I know know that large class sizes make for poorer educations. And you're suggesting that 300 kids should be fine?! How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously with that kind of nonsense?

#3 First of all, if you think needing to drop out of school to help support your family is irrelevant than you truly have no fucking clue about the real world for so many of the people you claim to have special knowledge of. Secondly, about having kids... I think my head is going to explode. You don't have the slightest fucking idea what you're talking about. Not even a little bit of a clue.
:evil:

#4 You can't blame kids for anything??? I guess not but you can blame the parents, and you can't force kids to learn if they don't want to thats their fault.
#5 was an article in the CIncinnati post, last summer, I don't have any stats, but its was a newspaper article.
#1 & #2 That is probably true about teachers in some stats but don't paint that picture on all. I am not a conservative, and i never said there should be 300 students in a HS calss, Please share with me these large class sized, all through my school it was 20 to 30 students in a class, If its the same today that is no excuse.
#3 Cincinnati public schools are terrible and all my grocery shopping and shhopping in general is done in a ghetto area I rarely see minorities at HS age working at these stores, so where are they working at???
And what about having kids. You think its reasonable to have kids that you can't support. :roll:

Blockhead

Item #2 Please read http://educationnext.org/floridas-class ... nts-learn/

gimmesometruth27

HeidiJam wrote:

Item #2 Please read http://educationnext.org/floridas-class ... nts-learn/

one study in florida does not generalize to the states of missouri where i used to work, and the state of illinois where i work now that if broke as fuck.

mikepegg44

ed243421 wrote:

ok
this wasn't supposed to be all about racism

more about truths

please show me the lies here and
if there are none
why the media explosion

---

Wright spoke of the United States taking land from the Indian tribes by what he labeled as terror, bombing Grenada, Panama, Libya, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, and argued that the United States supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and South Africa. He said that his parishioners' response should be to examine their relationship with God, not go "from the hatred of armed enemies to the hatred of unarmed innocents." His comment (quoting Malcolm X) that "America's chickens are coming home to roost" was widely interpreted as meaning that America had brought the September 11, 2001 attacks upon itself.[16][17][18] ABC News broadcast clips[19] from the sermon[1][20] in which Wright said:

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye... and now we are indignant, because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."

Later, Wright continued :

"Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y'all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people that we have wounded don't have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that."[19]

[edit] "Confusing God and Government"
Clips from a sermon that Wright gave, entitled "Confusing God and Government", were also shown on ABC's Good Morning America[1] and Fox News. In the sermon, Wright first makes the distinction between God and governments, and points out that many governments in the past have failed: "Where governments lie, God does not lie. Where governments change, God does not change."[21] Wright then states:

"[The United States] government lied about their belief that all men were created equal. The truth is they believed that all white men were created equal. The truth is they did not even believe that white women were created equal, in creation nor civilization. The government had to pass an amendment to the Constitution to get white women the vote. Then the government had to pass an equal rights amendment to get equal protection under the law for women. The government still thinks a woman has no rights over her own body, and between Uncle Clarence who sexually harassed Anita Hill, and a closeted Klan court, that is a throwback to the 19th century, handpicked by Daddy Bush, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, between Clarence and that stacked court, they are about to undo Roe vs. Wade, just like they are about to un-do affirmative action. The government lied in its founding documents and the government is still lying today. Governments lie."

He continued:

"The government lied about Pearl Harbor too. They knew the Japanese were going to attack. Governments lie. The government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. They wanted that resolution to get us in the Vietnam War. Governments lie. The government lied about Nelson Mandela and our CIA helped put him in prison and keep him there for 27 years. The South African government lied on Nelson Mandela. Governments lie."

Wright then stated:

"The government lied about the Tuskegee experiment. They purposely infected African American men with syphilis. Governments lie. The government lied about bombing Cambodia and Richard Nixon stood in front of the camera, 'Let me make myself perfectly clear...' Governments lie. The government lied about the drugs for arms Contra scheme orchestrated by Oliver North, and then the government pardoned all the perpetrators so they could get better jobs in the government. Governments lie.... The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. Governments lie. The government lied about a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein and a connection between 9.11.01 and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Governments lie."

He spoke about the government's rationale for the Iraq War:

"The government lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq being a threat to the United States peace. And guess what else? If they don't find them some weapons of mass destruction, they gonna do just like the LAPD, and plant the some weapons of mass destruction. Governments lie."

Wright then commented on God and government:

"And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating her citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains, the government put them on slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton field, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, not God Bless America. God damn America — that's in the Bible — for killing innocent people. God damn America, for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America, as long as she tries to act like she is God, and she is supreme. The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent.."[21][22][23][24]

you dont get to get off that easy, go back and answer my questions, why do you do that ed, try to corner someone into something and then are so surprised they do it you are rendered speechless and change the subject

_

HeidiJam wrote:

You have no idea how long it takes to break free of oppression. Many of the managers I work with have broken free from it. So why can't others,

We're talking about entire populations here, not just a few guys you know. That whole argument that because Colin Powell or Barack Obama were able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, black people as a whole are no longer oppressed is not founded in logic.

HeidiJam wrote:

And what about having kids. You think its reasonable to have kids that you can't support.

I believe we've been through this before. Until people want to start supporting comprehensive sex education, equal access to reliable contraception, and abortion rights, then they have absolutely no room to judge others for having kids. Most of the people who talk such shit don't know half as much as they think they do about preventing birth anyway. And don't give me any shit about not having sex unless you are willing to never again have sex with your wife unless you want and can fully support more kids.

I think the belief that poor people just go around having a bunch of kids they can't afford so they can get more government money to support their laziness is completely out of touch with reality. And I think it's not your place or anyone else's to judge another person, especially when you have not walked in their shoes. If you ask me, such judgement is the antithesis of what it means to be a good person - and I would much rather live in a world full of poor, uneducated, pregnant, undocumented people of color any day.

_

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

3. in many cases these kids have multiple siblings and are in a single parent household, so they drop out to get a job to help support their family.

. #3 is not an excuse.

I'd like to see you tell that to Eddie Vedder, by the way. I guess you don't have any respect for his lazy ass either, huh? :roll:

gimmesometruth27

scb wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

3. in many cases these kids have multiple siblings and are in a single parent household, so they drop out to get a job to help support their family.

. #3 is not an excuse.

I'd like to see you tell that to Eddie Vedder, by the way. I guess you don't have any respect for his lazy ass either, huh? :roll:

he probably does not know anything about ed's history...

and by the way, #3 is a very legitimate excuse. it must be nice to be able to live in a world where you can easily dismiss situations like that heidijam.

Blockhead

scb wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

3. in many cases these kids have multiple siblings and are in a single parent household, so they drop out to get a job to help support their family.

. #3 is not an excuse.

I'd like to see you tell that to Eddie Vedder, by the way. I guess you don't have any respect for his lazy ass either, huh? :roll:

So when i bring up points from my experience - I am over-generalizing and judgemental (even though stats back my position up)
You bring up eddie vedder (1 person) - and your not generalizing and thinking that everbody that is poor has to help support their families.
Were both generalizing yet I am the one getting called judgemental and racisit. I am sure there is alot of both but you need to quit pretending like i some judgemental bad guy, I see what i write about everyday.
Most of the time there are reasons that people are poor especially in america, and alot of that has to do with making bad decisions in life, NOT ALL. But to come here and say they don't have the opportunity to get jobs is a straight up lie, We have AA which gives them jobs for being blacks. They are given college educations because they are black. Those are all opportunities that you choose to ignore. What other opportunities do they need??? In OHIO they are now trying to pass a law where they will sever dinner now after school as part of the school??? for free, they already give breakfast and lunch. Why is it our job to feed them on the gov dollar???
We bendover backwards to help these people get out of poverty, or to at least provide for them. You fail to see this as a positive and you think it is some sort of right for them, when it is a privlige for my family. Life isn't fair and you should not be given privliges as rights.

Blockhead

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

. #3 is not an excuse.

I'd like to see you tell that to Eddie Vedder, by the way. I guess you don't have any respect for his lazy ass either, huh? :roll:[/quote]
he probably does not know anything about ed's history...

and by the way, #3 is a very legitimate excuse. it must be nice to be able to live in a world where you can easily dismiss situations like that heidijam.[/quote]
Oh you know eddie vedder now because you read it in a book. Please, just because he said something in a book dosent mean hes telling the complete truth. Don't act like you know eddie Vedder.
#3 is as a lgeitimates excuse as them being lazy to, is it not???
I like how everything i say is judgemental and a generalization yet, what you and SCB say, its not a generalization.
I am easily dimissing your point because it has as much merit as them being lazy. Just because you saw it in a movie dosen't make it true.

Blockhead

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Item #2 Please read http://educationnext.org/floridas-class ... nts-learn/

one study in florida does not generalize to the states of missouri where i used to work, and the state of illinois where i work now that if broke as fuck.

Schools in China have double our class size and they are able to be extremely sucessful in china and the USA??? Do you knwo what the differences. They value education and most inner-city youth do not value education, hence the drop-out rate and attendance issues. STOP with the excuses.

inmytree

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Item #2 Please read http://educationnext.org/floridas-class ... nts-learn/

one study in florida does not generalize to the states of missouri where i used to work, and the state of illinois where i work now that if broke as fuck.

Schools in China have double our class size and they are able to be extremely sucessful in china and the USA??? Do you knwo what the differences. They value education and most inner-city youth do not value education, hence the drop-out rate and attendance issues. STOP with the excuses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZFbyEKBYNY

Blockhead

inmytree wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZFbyEKBYNY

Can't watcj videos... Clifs?

inmytree

HeidiJam wrote:

inmytree wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZFbyEKBYNY

Can't watcj videos... Clifs?

You with the sad eyes
Don't be discouraged
Oh I realize
It's hard to take courage
In a world full of people
You can lose sight of it all
And the darkness inside you
Can make you feel so small

But I see your true colors
Shining through
I see your true colors
And that's why I love you
So don't be afraid to let them show
Your true colors
True colors are beautiful,
Like a rainbow

Show me a smile then,
Don't be unhappy, can't remember
When I last saw you laughing
If this world makes you crazy
And you've taken all you can bear
You call me up
Because you know I'll be there

And I'll see your true colors
Shining through
I see your true colors
And that's why I love you
So don't be afraid to let them show
Your true colors
True colors are beautiful,
Like a rainbow

Blockhead

Why don't you just say what you want to say?

inmytree

HeidiJam wrote:

Why don't you just say what you want to say?

I did...