Science prooves religion is a crutch

Jeanwah

vomikus39 wrote:

I know this wasn't in reference to me, but I feel the same way Pandora does, since being in a near-fatal accident. If anything puts life into perspective, it's a second chance at living life.

Well fortunately (or unfortunately) I haven't been that close to death. Maybe that would change my perspective. What I have witnessed is horrible tragedies, murders, hatred, racism, etc... Guess I can relate more to the negative. These are the reasons why I have no faith. There are good people in this world, but look at all the evil we have done. We are a destructive species. Of course I am not labeling every single human being as such, but as a whole species, I feel we are bad. I do not have faith in people or anything that may be above us.

I'm not saying you should believe in God. But if you just stop focusing on the negative, you just may find love and hope.

vomikus39

I'm not saying you should believe in God. But if you just stop focusing on the negative, you just may find love and hope.[/quote]

how do you do that?

pandora

Jeanwah wrote:

I know this wasn't in reference to me, but I feel the same way Pandora does, since being in a near-fatal accident. If anything puts life into perspective, it's a second chance at living life. You never know how many people love you until the day you almost lose your life. It's like witnessing your own funeral, but not dying.

I know what you have been through, it has changed the person you are. A positive change, this a perfect example of what comes from the tragedies, pain, the bad in the world. From it, from the wake of bad comes good, a ripple effect. And from hateful acts, comes an outpouring of love.

pandora

vomikus39 wrote:

how do you do that?

In my 20's I didn't believe in God. I was raised without religion, never baptized which is a big thing from my era. I sought on my own some knowledge of different religions but none won my heart.
I married, had my children. Then I got lost along the way and was ready to leave this world by my own hand at the age of 35. What saved me was my children. I chose life.
But I needed to know, I just needed to know what happens next, I needed to know if anyone was listening, so I asked for a miracle. 5 years later I got one.
People think miracles are a happy event. A joy but that isn't always the case, they can be based in pain and loss. But my miracle showed me what I needed to know.
With a strong faith now in the afterlife, in the journey we are on, I have come to realize since, now almost 15 years later, that my purpose here is to love. It is to understand others, to not judge them, to be a comfort and to remain hopeful.
Its not necessary to believe, your lifes path will take you to your own discoveries. Keep an open heart and see the beauty we have been given here in this life and the beauty of having each other.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

very well said Cosmo. that about sums up my belief system right there.

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yeah... I think I have been pretty clear on where I stand when it comes to religions. It doesn't mean I don't believe in God (i.e. Nature or something greater that is beyond my capacity to understand). I just don't buy into the God that Man has created in an image of himself (Man). God does not bother with the mundane aspects of our insignificant existance on thise tiny blue speck in space... He has a huge ass Universe or 11 to run.
And I'm anything but Christian... yet, I believe the teachings of Jesus provide great guidelines to live my life. That whole died for our sins so we can place all of our bullshit, indifference towards others, hatred for those not like us, self appreciation of our monetary accomplishments on His back and continue on our shitting on others... I ain't buying it. The sins I commit, I own and I will have to deal with them and I'm not casting off my responsibilities for them... nor the consequences cause by them.
I just figure, while I'm here... and that HERE is the only thing I am sure about... I'm going to do my best... and help the ones who are having a tough time here. I believe in the 'Survival of The Fittest'... in the animal world.... but, we are humans, not animals. I believe the weak amongst us should not have to fear the strong, because the strong should help and protect the weak.
I'm hoping God will cut me a break... you know, being the imperfect, a-hole I am. And If Jesus ever does come back... He'll sit next to me on the beach and watch the Sun set and answer some of the hundred questions I have about all of this.

Gern Blansten

ditto....I still leave the possibility open but it just doesn't make sense to me from a creation of the universe standpoint

vomikus39

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

very well said Cosmo. that about sums up my belief system right there.

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yeah... I think I have been pretty clear on where I stand when it comes to religions. It doesn't mean I don't believe in God (i.e. Nature or something greater that is beyond my capacity to understand). I just don't buy into the God that Man has created in an image of himself (Man). God does not bother with the mundane aspects of our insignificant existance on thise tiny blue speck in space... He has a huge ass Universe or 11 to run.
And I'm anything but Christian... yet, I believe the teachings of Jesus provide great guidelines to live my life. That whole died for our sins so we can place all of our bullshit, indifference towards others, hatred for those not like us, self appreciation of our monetary accomplishments on His back and continue on our shitting on others... I ain't buying it. The sins I commit, I own and I will have to deal with them and I'm not casting off my responsibilities for them... nor the consequences cause by them.
I just figure, while I'm here... and that HERE is the only thing I am sure about... I'm going to do my best... and help the ones who are having a tough time here. I believe in the 'Survival of The Fittest'... in the animal world.... but, we are humans, not animals. I believe the weak amongst us should not have to fear the strong, because the strong should help and protect the weak.
I'm hoping God will cut me a break... you know, being the imperfect, a-hole I am. And If Jesus ever does come back... He'll sit next to me on the beach and watch the Sun set and answer some of the hundred questions I have about all of this.

Perfect

BinauralJam

I wana go back to the times of Greek Mythology, you could have your own favorite God, do you love swimming? Posidien's your guy!, Can't get enough of woman, Aphrodite your girl! That just seems like Fun. I miss watching Xena.

Jeanwah

vomikus39 wrote:

I'm not saying you should believe in God. But if you just stop focusing on the negative, you just may find love and hope.

how do you do that?

Accepting others for who they are is a start. Tolerance and understanding can bring incredible results.

supersonicyears

Cosmo wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

I love this entire post, and can't agree more with the spirituality/religion not being one of the same.
I tend to stay out of religious debate because I think it's fine whatever anyone wants to believe in.

...
Yeah... I think I have been pretty clear on where I stand when it comes to religions. It doesn't mean I don't believe in God (i.e. Nature or something greater that is beyond my capacity to understand). I just don't buy into the God that Man has created in an image of himself (Man). God does not bother with the mundane aspects of our insignificant existance on thise tiny blue speck in space... He has a huge ass Universe or 11 to run.And I'm anything but Christian... yet, I believe the teachings of Jesus provide great guidelines to live my life. That whole died for our sins so we can place all of our bullshit, indifference towards others, hatred for those not like us, self appreciation of our monetary accomplishments on His back and continue on our shitting on others... I ain't buying it. The sins I commit, I own and I will have to deal with them and I'm not casting off my responsibilities for them... nor the consequences cause by them.

I just figure, while I'm here... and that HERE is the only thing I am sure about... I'm going to do my best... and help the ones who are having a tough time here. I believe in the 'Survival of The Fittest'... in the animal world.... but, we are humans, not animals. I believe the weak amongst us should not have to fear the strong, because the strong should help and protect the weak.
I'm hoping God will cut me a break... you know, being the imperfect, a-hole I am. And If Jesus ever does come back... He'll sit next to me on the beach and watch the Sun set and answer some of the hundred questions I have about all of this.

"That whole died for our sins so we can place all of our bullshit, indifference towards others, hatred for those not like us, self appreciation of our monetary accomplishments on His back and continue on our shitting on others... I ain't buying it. The sins I commit, I own and I will have to deal with them and I'm not casting off my responsibilities for them... nor the consequences cause by them. "
Jesus did that so our sins could be forgiven and by truly believing you would try your best to love everyone and treat everyone better than you would expect for yourself. If we could do that it would solve all the problems of this world.

Cosmo

TheBeach wrote:

"That whole died for our sins so we can place all of our bullshit, indifference towards others, hatred for those not like us, self appreciation of our monetary accomplishments on His back and continue on our shitting on others... I ain't buying it. The sins I commit, I own and I will have to deal with them and I'm not casting off my responsibilities for them... nor the consequences cause by them. "
Jesus did that so our sins could be forgiven and by truly believing you would try your best to love everyone and treat everyone better than you would expect for yourself. If we could do that it would solve all the problems of this world.

...
That's the problem... trying and doing are not the same. What people should do and what people ACTUALLY DO... are two completely different things. You either love everyone and treat everyone better than you would expect for yourself... or you don't... pass or fail... no 'trying'.
Maybe, if everyone had to carry their own sins with them to the Judgement... they wouldn't continually commit the same sins over and over again. Jesus takes all that away on His shoulders, leaving those who believe in Him the ability to sleep at night with a clear consciencous.

eyedclaar

Jeanwah wrote:

vomikus39 wrote:

I'm not saying you should believe in God. But if you just stop focusing on the negative, you just may find love and hope.

how do you do that?

Accepting others for who they are is a start. Tolerance and understanding can bring incredible results.

But I really don't think I can bring myself to tolerate and understand the things I don't tolerate and understand. Not sure why I would even want to...

Glad to hear you are recovering from your accident.

pandora

eyedclaar wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Accepting others for who they are is a start. Tolerance and understanding can bring incredible results.

But I really don't think I can bring myself to tolerate and understand the things I don't tolerate and understand. Not sure why I would even want to...

Glad to hear you are recovering from your accident.

I think we try to understand, accept, tolerate(not fond of that word)because we could very well be wrong in our judgment of others. Because we ourselves are flawed and because we want to be treated with respect and others deserve the same.
It's my belief that it's not our place to judge but to work towards unconditional love while we are here.
Perhaps you may be thinking of evil when you speak of not accepting and understanding. Maybe also the stupid and thoughtless, I don't know.
I believe in evil, it is very power drug for some but to know motives, or what brought that person to where they are, one must at least try a little understanding. To understand them is to combat evil, to make changes in the world to suppress evil, through understanding the cycle that sustains it.
Eyed is a smart man, to smart to be prejudice. But many are not and it is their belief also, "why would I want to understand and tolerate something I don't understand or tolerate" the answer, to learn, to learn about others, to grow together, to make it a better world.

supersonicyears

Cosmo wrote:

TheBeach wrote:

"That whole died for our sins so we can place all of our bullshit, indifference towards others, hatred for those not like us, self appreciation of our monetary accomplishments on His back and continue on our shitting on others... I ain't buying it. The sins I commit, I own and I will have to deal with them and I'm not casting off my responsibilities for them... nor the consequences cause by them. "
Jesus did that so our sins could be forgiven and by truly believing you would try your best to love everyone and treat everyone better than you would expect for yourself. If we could do that it would solve all the problems of this world.

...
That's the problem... trying and doing are not the same. What people should do and what people ACTUALLY DO... are two completely different things. You either love everyone and treat everyone better than you would expect for yourself... or you don't... pass or fail... no 'trying'.
Maybe, if everyone had to carry their own sins with them to the Judgement... they wouldn't continually commit the same sins over and over again. Jesus takes all that away on His shoulders, leaving those who believe in Him the ability to sleep at night with a clear consciencous.

Only God is perfect. God knows our intentions. Try.

Cosmo

TheBeach wrote:

Only God is perfect. God knows our intentions. Try.

...
We all know that. We are human... humans are imperfect... but, that's no excuse for being a dick to people.
...
Again... "God, knowing our intentions" still allows us to get away with our indifference towards those in need... our hatred towards those whom are different. All it takes is a, 'Lord knows I'm trying... but, I think those Mexicans should be shot on sight at the border' or 'Jesus knows... no matter how much I try and try... I still hate them fucking Jews (or Niggers or Spics or wetbacks or Chinks or Japs or Gooks or etc...)' and all is forgiven because Jesus is there to take all of our bullshit and shittiness towards others away from us... as long as we claim Him as our personal saviour.
I would much rather take the responsibility for all of the sins in my life and face the consequences of them... instead of dumping them on the back of someone whose teachings I truely admire and respect. A lot of people have been and still are dumping some heavy shit onto Jesus... I ain't gonna be one of them. I'll carry my own weight and live with it.
...
I still stand by my belief that you ARE a descent person or you are not. Trying to be a good person... and still shitting all over others in NOT being a good person.
...
Let me add... this the way I see things. I am not trying to persuade anyone to agree with me... or disuade anyone from their own, personal beliefs. I'm just saying, this is how I feel and why.

arq

TheBeach wrote:

Only God is perfect. God knows our intentions. Try.

:roll: Yeah like the time he stopped the man who killed her wife and daughter... oh sorry he knew the intentions of the guy but didn't do anything to stopped him, or like the time... well you know what i mean... :thumbdown:

Cosmo

arq wrote:

:roll: Yeah like the time he stopped the man who killed her wife and daughter... oh sorry he knew the intentions of the guy but didn't do anything to stopped him, or like the time... well you know what i mean... :thumbdown:

...
That's something else I don't understand...
In your example... the guy could get convicted of murdering his wife and daughter and 'Finds Jesus' in prison (where a lot of people seem to find Him). He truely believes and accepts Jesus into his life... til he is executed.
Does he get to go to Heaven?
If not... why not? His faith was pure, Jesus accepted his sins.
And what about his Jewish (or Muslim) wife? What does she get in the deal? Does Yehweh/Allah accept her? Is Yahweh/Allah a different One God than the One God?

arq

Cosmo wrote:

arq wrote:

:roll: Yeah like the time he stopped the man who killed her wife and daughter... oh sorry he knew the intentions of the guy but didn't do anything to stopped him, or like the time... well you know what i mean... :thumbdown:

...
That's something else I don't understand...
In your example... the guy could get convicted of murdering his wife and daughter and 'Finds Jesus' in prison (where a lot of people seem to find Him). He truely believes and accepts Jesus into his life... til he is executed.
Does he get to go to Heaven?
If not... why not? His faith was pure, Jesus accepted his sins.
And what about his Jewish (or Muslim) wife? What does she get in the deal? Does Yehweh/Allah accept her? Is Yahweh/Allah a different One God than the One God?

There's no need to understand that... there's no Jesus waiting for him to repent, or Yehweh/Allah trying sending him to heaven or hell, if we invent some religion we could made up laws and rules, we could create some excuse to say that the guy killed her wife because he thought she broke some made up holy rule and instead of a punishment he deserve the highest honors in the afterlife, so all if all the holy histories and laws are just made up stuff, so are the regards and punishments.

FiveB247x

God died for your sins... don't disappoint... sin away!

supersonicyears

Cosmo wrote:

TheBeach wrote:

Only God is perfect. God knows our intentions. Try.

...
We all know that. We are human... humans are imperfect... but, that's no excuse for being a dick to people.
...
Again... "God, knowing our intentions" still allows us to get away with our indifference towards those in need... our hatred towards those whom are different. All it takes is a, 'Lord knows I'm trying... but, I think those Mexicans should be shot on sight at the border' or 'Jesus knows... no matter how much I try and try... I still hate them fucking Jews (or Niggers or Spics or wetbacks or Chinks or Japs or Gooks or etc...)' and all is forgiven because Jesus is there to take all of our bullshit and shittiness towards others away from us... as long as we claim Him as our personal saviour.
I would much rather take the responsibility for all of the sins in my life and face the consequences of them... instead of dumping them on the back of someone whose teachings I truely admire and respect. A lot of people have been and still are dumping some heavy shit onto Jesus... I ain't gonna be one of them. I'll carry my own weight and live with it.
...
I still stand by my belief that you ARE a descent person or you are not. Trying to be a good person... and still shitting all over others in NOT being a good person.
...
Let me add... this the way I see things. I am not trying to persuade anyone to agree with me... or disuade anyone from their own, personal beliefs. I'm just saying, this is how I feel and why.

"Again... "God, knowing our intentions" still allows us to get away with our indifference towards those in need... our hatred towards those whom are different. All it takes is a, 'Lord knows I'm trying... but, I think those Mexicans should be shot on sight at the border' or 'Jesus knows... no matter how much I try and try... I still hate them fucking Jews (or Niggers or Spics or wetbacks or Chinks or Japs or Gooks or etc...)' and all is forgiven because Jesus is there to take all of our bullshit and shittiness towards others away from us... as long as we claim Him as our personal saviour."
:shock: That's pretty shocking. Is this how you feel about people and how you treat people? That's not how I feel. Are you saying that you think everyone thinks that way?
You seem to have a set way of thinking about how all Christians think. Is this how Atheists and other religions think? I can tell you it's not. Most people don't set out to do bad things. Try.Try to treat people "Better" than you want to be treated. It's hard sometimes. All we can do is pray for help. Love. That's my belief. Goodnight everyone.