I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.
I think you're missing the connection here. Many women, particularly the younger generation (akin to black youth) in the workforce have not been directly oppressed by legislation such as no right to vote etc. but still make much less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS. Yes, some women choose professions that pay less than those that an average man may choose. But I'm not referring to those cases. I'm talking apples and apples here.
As I've said, one problem is that humans are terribly slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. Many have deeply engraved beliefs that people with different skin color, gender, sexual preference, etc. are NOT EQUAL. While there has been improvement in recent years, it is CLEAR to any reasonable mind that the affects of such oppression are very long-lasting.
It's not just about the legalities of the discrimination. Yes, slavery no longer exists. Yes, blacks can vote. Yes, blacks can own property. Yes, blacks can be presidents. Definitely progress. And changing the laws to force people to legally treat others better was where it needed to begin. But racism, and income disparity will exist in this country until people change their ATTITUDES towards others.
If this is true then why don't companies fire all the men and hire all women?
The best way to not have unexpected pregnancies is by safe sex, birth control, and to teach kids about it, not to sugar coat it how they do things today. Instead of treating sex like it does not happend,in school they need to explain to kids how realistic it is. This could help.
I agree that education & contraception are the best ways to prevent unintended pregnancy.
We have to remember, though, that women must have ACCESS to RELIABLE contraception in order to decrease unintended pregnancy rates. Poor women have considerably less access to reliable contraception. (Do you know what the most reliable form of contraception is? The IUD. Do you know how much it costs - just for the device, not including the doctor's visit? $703.) So what do you intend to do or what policies do you intend to support to increase poor women's access to reliable contraception, since this is so important to you?
We must also remember that contraception still does fail - a lot more often than people realize.
As far as reality #2. Put the child in the best possible care it can recieve. If the parents can't afford a child then someone else needs to take care of the child, there should be visitation if the bio parents want that, but it is extremely unfair for a child to grow up to live a life where they have to take care of their parents and live a life with no promise or taught any responsibility.
these are just my opinions, I am not saying they are right or perfect, but this is how i see fixing a problem that seems to have no end.
It sounds to me like you are suggesting that children born to parents receiving welfare be taken away from their parents and adopted by wealthier families. Is that correct? If you don't mean that this should happen as a matter of policy, there's no way in hell it will happen regularly enough to even make a dent in the problem. Would you actually give your child away just because you were going through financial hardship at the time of delivery? Neither would most anyone else.
poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education - There seems to be overwhelming evidence for this.
Poor children stay out playing on the streets too late - i guess you see nothing wrong with that.
Please provide the overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education. Also, did you ever find out what percentage of poor children stay out playing on the streets too late?
poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education - There seems to be overwhelming evidence for this.
Poor children stay out playing on the streets too late - i guess you see nothing wrong with that.
Please provide the overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education. Also, did you ever find out what percentage of poor children stay out playing on the streets too late?
Look at my post at the top of the page. There is your evidence.
There is no percentage for poor children that stay out late in the streets. But there have been several posters other than me who have commented on that. I don't know why you are trying to debate that.
I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.
I think you're missing the connection here. Many women, particularly the younger generation (akin to black youth) in the workforce have not been directly oppressed by legislation such as no right to vote etc. but still make much less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS. Yes, some women choose professions that pay less than those that an average man may choose. But I'm not referring to those cases. I'm talking apples and apples here.
As I've said, one problem is that humans are terribly slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. Many have deeply engraved beliefs that people with different skin color, gender, sexual preference, etc. are NOT EQUAL. While there has been improvement in recent years, it is CLEAR to any reasonable mind that the affects of such oppression are very long-lasting.
It's not just about the legalities of the discrimination. Yes, slavery no longer exists. Yes, blacks can vote. Yes, blacks can own property. Yes, blacks can be presidents. Definitely progress. And changing the laws to force people to legally treat others better was where it needed to begin. But racism, and income disparity will exist in this country until people change their ATTITUDES towards others.
Excellent point. And, regarding the point I underlined above, I think this is a self-perpetuating problem. People see "others" as unequal, so they are treated unequally, so they are less likely to "succeed," so they are seen as unequal. It's a vicious cycle - and every one of us has to take the personal responsibility to stop it.
For those of you playing that education card and dismissing my point on how they have to actually go to school to learn.
Please read the following link especiall item 2. http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/1 ... index.html
from the article "the United States is a world leader in education investment. However, nations that spend far less achieve higher levels of student performance."
Looking like funding schools is not the issue, its performance.
I don't understand how you draw your conclusion from the information at the website you linked. You provided data about national education expenditures, which tells us nothing about the unequal distribution of those expenditures.
I also don't think anyone has disputed that you have to go to school to learn. No shit! I think the problem is with your suggestions such as that poor minority kids don't receive the same education as wealthier white kids because they don't go to school, and they don't go to school because they would rather skip school to buy Air Jordans, and that this is because poor people and minorities don't value education.
I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.
I think you're missing the connection here. Many women, particularly the younger generation (akin to black youth) in the workforce have not been directly oppressed by legislation such as no right to vote etc. but still make much less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS. Yes, some women choose professions that pay less than those that an average man may choose. But I'm not referring to those cases. I'm talking apples and apples here.
As I've said, one problem is that humans are terribly slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. Many have deeply engraved beliefs that people with different skin color, gender, sexual preference, etc. are NOT EQUAL. While there has been improvement in recent years, it is CLEAR to any reasonable mind that the affects of such oppression are very long-lasting.
It's not just about the legalities of the discrimination. Yes, slavery no longer exists. Yes, blacks can vote. Yes, blacks can own property. Yes, blacks can be presidents. Definitely progress. And changing the laws to force people to legally treat others better was where it needed to begin. But racism, and income disparity will exist in this country until people change their ATTITUDES towards others.
If this is true then why don't companies fire all the men and hire all women?
poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education - There seems to be overwhelming evidence for this.
Poor children stay out playing on the streets too late - i guess you see nothing wrong with that.
Please provide the overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education. Also, did you ever find out what percentage of poor children stay out playing on the streets too late?
Look at my post at the top of the page. There is your evidence.
There is no percentage for poor children that stay out late in the streets. But there have been several posters other than me who have commented on that. I don't know why you are trying to debate that.
Huh?? :? You mean this link?? How on earth does that provide overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education??? That conclusion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! It's not even in the same ballpark. :?
How many times do I have to tell you that I'm not debating that there are some kids that stay out too late?? I know - you've seen them... cincy's seen them... I get that. But you are asserting that what you have seen is generalizable to entire races and income levels of people and you have ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof to back that up.
My first boyfriend, who was a man, had no testicles. Therefore, since you are a man, I believe that you have no testicles. Must be true. I've seen men without testicles. Other people have seen it to.
This is clearly going no where.
There is a reason why their education graduation rate is so low. You can continue to blame the system for everyone of thier problems.
I am going to go with my opinion that since there is no progression being made and welfare and foodstams are on the continual rise as well as prison, that its a personal responsible thing.
AA GIVES them jobs they are not qualified for. How does that no piss you off.
I assume you would be all for reperations to right?
And just because ther are poor with no money or savings and on welfare they should still have the same privliges that i work my ass of for?
In this thread - people who are afraid to be hard on minorities for not making progress because they don't want to be labled a racist so they create excuses for them and make up unmeasureable things like healing of oppression.
This is clearly going no where.
There is a reason why their education graduation rate is so low. You can continue to blame the system for everyone of thier problems.
I am going to go with my opinion that since there is no progression being made and welfare and foodstams are on the continual rise as well as prison, that its a personal responsible thing.
AA GIVES them jobs they are not qualified for. How does that no piss you off.
I assume you would be all for reperations to right?
And just because ther are poor with no money or savings and on welfare they should still have the same privliges that i work my ass of for?
In this thread - people who are afraid to be hard on minorities for not making progress because they don't want to be labled a racist so they create excuses for them and make up unmeasureable things like healing of oppression.
So what you're saying then is that you're not going to answer any of my questions? You're not going to clarify whether you support the forced removal of babies from poor homes? You're not going to tell me what you're going to do to ensure that poor women have better access to reliable contraception, so as to decrease the incidence of poor women having more babies? You're not going to explain the logic behind any of the conclusions you draw from the national education expenditures data?
How about this? I'll concede that poor people and minorities need to take more personal responsibility, if you tell me exactly how YOU are going to take personal responsibility to do what you can to help this situation that upsets you so much.
My point is that we shouldn't base prejudices on anecdotal "information". That kind of thinking only creates problems; it doesn't solve them.
My point is, if you give me the funding, I'll prove to you that young kids in low income areas are out way too late. I'm confident of it.
Okay, well that gets back to my original question: At what rate are young kids in low income areas out way too late? Is it high enough to suggest that this represents an entire race of people? And what is the relative rate when comparing poor white neighborhoods with poor minority neighborhoods, or poor minority neighborhoods with wealthier minority neighborhoods? Can this phenomenon be (supposedly) "attributed" to race? Or income? And what counts as "young kids" or "out way too late"? And who gets to apply their values to define whether it's a problem (and they are dissenting values disregarded)?
Are you really defending her overgeneralizations as you seem to be? :?
ANd I said, give me the funding and I will prove the point. This "overgeneralization" I believe to be true based upon my personal experience.
This is clearly going no where.
There is a reason why their education graduation rate is so low. You can continue to blame the system for everyone of thier problems.
I am going to go with my opinion that since there is no progression being made and welfare and foodstams are on the continual rise as well as prison, that its a personal responsible thing.
AA GIVES them jobs they are not qualified for. How does that no piss you off.
I assume you would be all for reperations to right?
And just because ther are poor with no money or savings and on welfare they should still have the same privliges that i work my ass of for?
In this thread - people who are afraid to be hard on minorities for not making progress because they don't want to be labled a racist so they create excuses for them and make up unmeasureable things like healing of oppression.
Also, scb...it is evident by the % of dropouts that education in low income areas is certainly not valued at the same rate as those in high income areas. For a multitude of reasons that I already stated.
Also, scb...it is evident by the % of dropouts that education in low income areas is certainly not valued at the same rate as those in high income areas. For a multitude of reasons that I already stated.
And did you read the multitude of reasons that I gave for dropping out of school that have nothing to do with the value placed on education? I don't see how you can say that your generalization is evident when there are a multitude of alternative explanations.
there was a cool story in cnnsi about a girls softball team from a poorer school playing against a top ranked school ... the coach from the top ranked school offered to forfeit the game and instead take the time to teach the girls how to play the game ...
Question, and maybe you don't know, but how exactly wasn't there anyone from the girls school/families that could "teach them how to play the game"?
While I agree regarding the funding for equipment, fields, etc....the lack of learning how to play may point to the people int eh community not caring enough about their kids to teach them. So it could show a combination of the 2 factors I mentioned.
I think we have to be careful to not confuse not having time, money, health, etc. to do things with your kids with not caring.
I also think you can't assume it because everyone is too busy working.
Question, and maybe you don't know, but how exactly wasn't there anyone from the girls school/families that could "teach them how to play the game"?
While I agree regarding the funding for equipment, fields, etc....the lack of learning how to play may point to the people int eh community not caring enough about their kids to teach them. So it could show a combination of the 2 factors I mentioned.
I think we have to be careful to not confuse not having time, money, health, etc. to do things with your kids with not caring.
I also think you can't assume it because everyone is too busy working.
Also, scb...it is evident by the % of dropouts that education in low income areas is certainly not valued at the same rate as those in high income areas. For a multitude of reasons that I already stated.
And did you read the multitude of reasons that I gave for dropping out of school that have nothing to do with the value placed on education? I don't see how you can say that your generalization is evident when there are a multitude of alternative explanations.
You really think that my statement is wrong? That education isn't valued the same in low income areas vs, high income areas? I already said there are a lot of reasins as to why I think this is the case and not all because people/parents just don't care...but you want statistics and a drop out rate > 50% proove the point very easily, yet you still make nothing but excuses.
I think while you are blaming others of generalization, you are also making your own assumptions and generaltions...
Ok, so you are telling me that you think that the reason kids in a low inclome area don't know how to hold a bat is because of what?
My daughter is 2...i spent 30 minutes yesterday helping her learn how to hold a tee ball bat the right way...its ridiculous to think people are too busy for that level of instruction.
For the record, don't assume I agree wih everything being said by Heidijam...
But I've seen the kids on the street...in fact I've had groups of 10 year olds throw rocks and me and my mother at about 10:30 PM on a weeknight more than once...maybe the same kids.....
And I think it's a bit crazy and lazy to blame the lack of $ on kids not knowing some very basic things.
You really think that my statement is wrong? That education isn't valued the same in low income areas vs, high income areas? I already said there are a lot of reasins as to why I think this is the case and not all because people/parents just don't care...but you want statistics and a drop out rate > 50% proove the point very easily, yet you still make nothing but excuses.
I think while you are blaming others of generalization, you are also making your own assumptions and generaltions...
What assumptions and generalizations do you think I'm making? I never said all poor people care about education or poor people are more likely to care about education. I said your statement that poor people care less about education is unfounded. And I said high drop out rates do not prove that poor people care less about education, then gave examples of alternative practical reasons why many people who I know personally drop out of school. I never said no one drops out of school because they don't care or that all people drop out of school because of the reasons I provided.
You really think that my statement is wrong? That education isn't valued the same in low income areas vs, high income areas? I already said there are a lot of reasins as to why I think this is the case and not all because people/parents just don't care...but you want statistics and a drop out rate > 50% proove the point very easily, yet you still make nothing but excuses.
I think while you are blaming others of generalization, you are also making your own assumptions and generaltions...
What assumptions and generalizations do you think I'm making? I never said all poor people care about education or poor people are more likely to care about education. I said your statement that poor people care less about education is unfounded. And I said high drop out rates do not prove that poor people care less about education, then gave examples of alternative practical reasons why many people who I know personally drop out of school. I never said no one drops out of school because they don't care or that all people drop out of school because of the reasons I provided.
Ok, let's setsome things straight. I never said poor people care less about education...I said the dropout rat ein low income areas would support the belief that low income areas care less about education.
Anyhow, I do really respect your point of view, I just disagree on some of the details.
Ok, so you are telling me that you think that the reason kids in a low inclome area don't know how to hold a bat is because of what?
My daughter is 2...i spent 30 minutes yesterday helping her learn how to hold a tee ball bat the right way...its ridiculous to think people are too busy for that level of instruction.
See, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm not purporting to know why the kids in that article weren't good at softball. (No need to skew the story, by the way.) I'm just saying that you don't really know either, and that you have to be CAREFUL before assigning value attributes to entire groups of people, and that there are a multitude of reasons why a poor kid might be bad at softball.
I can tell you this, since anecdotal information is so valued around here - I haven't the slightest idea how to play softball. And I'm white, well-educated, wasn't living in poverty in primary school, and have parents who value education more than any parents I know (one of them's a teacher!). You say people don't value education and imply that they don't care about their kids if they don't value "that level of instruction" about sports, but have you ever stopped to think that maybe some people just don't value softball?? I know I was too busy studying when I was in school to have any time for or interest in things like that. It sure as fuck doesn't mean I didn't value education or that my parents didn't care about me. The leaps of logic around here tonight are astounding!
There is no leap in logic. If your kid is involved in aything you should be there to teach them. If YOU didn't play softball then there is no reason for your parents to instruct you on how to play, especially if you didn't have any intrest in it.. But these Kids DID play softball. Your running out of excuses.
You keep saying i am generalizing, but you are doing the same thing, you are making excuses for why they are not there by saing, Helth, no money, busy working. Iam sorry but those excuses your implying that they are doing everything in their power to succeed but in reality there is no progress being made and the stats don't match your excuses, so you telling me that the over 50% dropout rate is because all the parents are to busy working??? Yet welfare receiptians are increasing. If they are working so much then they would not be on welfare, Its almost impossible to have a decent job and receive welfare, my wifes sister had an issue with this, she worked at Dillars and working more than 30 hours a week making $7 an hour put her over qualified.
I know i am painting with a broad brush, but I am speaking from experience. Your excuses don't line up with their progress (none) and mine do.
There is no leap in logic. If your kid is involved in aything you should be there to teach them. If YOU didn't play softball then there is no reason for your parents to instruct you on how to play, especially if you didn't have any intrest in it.. But these Kids DID play softball. Your running out of excuses.
You keep saying i am generalizing, but you are doing the same thing, you are making excuses for why they are not there by saing, Helth, no money, busy working. Iam sorry but those excuses your implying that they are doing everything in their power to succeed but in reality there is no progress being made and the stats don't match your excuses, so you telling me that the over 50% dropout rate is because all the parents are to busy working??? Yet welfare receiptians are increasing. If they are working so much then they would not be on welfare, Its almost impossible to have a decent job and receive welfare, my wifes sister had an issue with this, she worked at Dillars and working more than 30 hours a week making $7 an hour put her over qualified.
I know i am painting with a broad brush, but I am speaking from experience. Your excuses don't line up with their progress (none) and mine do.
I don't think anyone is denying that some ethnic minorities don't value education, don't accept personal responsibility, etc. You're right. But some white individuals don't either. It IS a leap in logic to extrapolate those atributes to whole populations. How is it that you don't realize that?
There is no leap in logic. If your kid is involved in aything you should be there to teach them. If YOU didn't play softball then there is no reason for your parents to instruct you on how to play, especially if you didn't have any intrest in it.. But these Kids DID play softball. Your running out of excuses.
You keep saying i am generalizing, but you are doing the same thing, you are making excuses for why they are not there by saing, Helth, no money, busy working. Iam sorry but those excuses your implying that they are doing everything in their power to succeed but in reality there is no progress being made and the stats don't match your excuses, so you telling me that the over 50% dropout rate is because all the parents are to busy working??? Yet welfare receiptians are increasing. If they are working so much then they would not be on welfare, Its almost impossible to have a decent job and receive welfare, my wifes sister had an issue with this, she worked at Dillars and working more than 30 hours a week making $7 an hour put her over qualified.
I know i am painting with a broad brush, but I am speaking from experience. Your excuses don't line up with their progress (none) and mine do.
I don't think anyone is denying that some ethnic minorities don't value education, don't accept personal responsibility, etc. You're right. But some white individuals don't either. It IS a leap in logic to extrapolate those atributes to whole populations. How is it that you don't realize that?
I know whites do it to. But Blacks make up 14% of our population and 40% is on welfare. That is a huge number to such a small percent of people that make up the US. how is it that you don't realize that?
Comments
I agree that education & contraception are the best ways to prevent unintended pregnancy.
We have to remember, though, that women must have ACCESS to RELIABLE contraception in order to decrease unintended pregnancy rates. Poor women have considerably less access to reliable contraception. (Do you know what the most reliable form of contraception is? The IUD. Do you know how much it costs - just for the device, not including the doctor's visit? $703.) So what do you intend to do or what policies do you intend to support to increase poor women's access to reliable contraception, since this is so important to you?
We must also remember that contraception still does fail - a lot more often than people realize.
It sounds to me like you are suggesting that children born to parents receiving welfare be taken away from their parents and adopted by wealthier families. Is that correct? If you don't mean that this should happen as a matter of policy, there's no way in hell it will happen regularly enough to even make a dent in the problem. Would you actually give your child away just because you were going through financial hardship at the time of delivery? Neither would most anyone else.
That actually makes more sense with your argument since minorities have it so easy today in America and are treated BETTER than equal.
Please provide the overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education. Also, did you ever find out what percentage of poor children stay out playing on the streets too late?
There is no percentage for poor children that stay out late in the streets. But there have been several posters other than me who have commented on that. I don't know why you are trying to debate that.
Excellent point. And, regarding the point I underlined above, I think this is a self-perpetuating problem. People see "others" as unequal, so they are treated unequally, so they are less likely to "succeed," so they are seen as unequal. It's a vicious cycle - and every one of us has to take the personal responsibility to stop it.
I don't understand how you draw your conclusion from the information at the website you linked. You provided data about national education expenditures, which tells us nothing about the unequal distribution of those expenditures.
I also don't think anyone has disputed that you have to go to school to learn. No shit! I think the problem is with your suggestions such as that poor minority kids don't receive the same education as wealthier white kids because they don't go to school, and they don't go to school because they would rather skip school to buy Air Jordans, and that this is because poor people and minorities don't value education.
If what is true?
Huh?? :? You mean this link?? How on earth does that provide overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education??? That conclusion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! It's not even in the same ballpark. :?
How many times do I have to tell you that I'm not debating that there are some kids that stay out too late?? I know - you've seen them... cincy's seen them... I get that. But you are asserting that what you have seen is generalizable to entire races and income levels of people and you have ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof to back that up.
My first boyfriend, who was a man, had no testicles. Therefore, since you are a man, I believe that you have no testicles. Must be true. I've seen men without testicles. Other people have seen it to.
Huh?? :? :? I have no idea what this is referring to.
There is a reason why their education graduation rate is so low. You can continue to blame the system for everyone of thier problems.
I am going to go with my opinion that since there is no progression being made and welfare and foodstams are on the continual rise as well as prison, that its a personal responsible thing.
AA GIVES them jobs they are not qualified for. How does that no piss you off.
I assume you would be all for reperations to right?
And just because ther are poor with no money or savings and on welfare they should still have the same privliges that i work my ass of for?
In this thread - people who are afraid to be hard on minorities for not making progress because they don't want to be labled a racist so they create excuses for them and make up unmeasureable things like healing of oppression.
So what you're saying then is that you're not going to answer any of my questions? You're not going to clarify whether you support the forced removal of babies from poor homes? You're not going to tell me what you're going to do to ensure that poor women have better access to reliable contraception, so as to decrease the incidence of poor women having more babies? You're not going to explain the logic behind any of the conclusions you draw from the national education expenditures data?
How about this? I'll concede that poor people and minorities need to take more personal responsibility, if you tell me exactly how YOU are going to take personal responsibility to do what you can to help this situation that upsets you so much.
ANd I said, give me the funding and I will prove the point. This "overgeneralization" I believe to be true based upon my personal experience.
At what sort of job do you work?
A black family's wealth is on average five times lower than a white family's.
A burning house is just as likely to be put out by firemen if the firemen are black or white.
Your ability to see the world through the eyes of a poor member of an ethnic minority group is clearly evident in every one of your posts.
The Earth is round.
And did you read the multitude of reasons that I gave for dropping out of school that have nothing to do with the value placed on education? I don't see how you can say that your generalization is evident when there are a multitude of alternative explanations.
I also think you can't assume it because everyone is too busy working.
I didn't. :roll:
You really think that my statement is wrong? That education isn't valued the same in low income areas vs, high income areas? I already said there are a lot of reasins as to why I think this is the case and not all because people/parents just don't care...but you want statistics and a drop out rate > 50% proove the point very easily, yet you still make nothing but excuses.
I think while you are blaming others of generalization, you are also making your own assumptions and generaltions...
Ok, so you are telling me that you think that the reason kids in a low inclome area don't know how to hold a bat is because of what?
My daughter is 2...i spent 30 minutes yesterday helping her learn how to hold a tee ball bat the right way...its ridiculous to think people are too busy for that level of instruction.
But I've seen the kids on the street...in fact I've had groups of 10 year olds throw rocks and me and my mother at about 10:30 PM on a weeknight more than once...maybe the same kids.....
And I think it's a bit crazy and lazy to blame the lack of $ on kids not knowing some very basic things.
What assumptions and generalizations do you think I'm making? I never said all poor people care about education or poor people are more likely to care about education. I said your statement that poor people care less about education is unfounded. And I said high drop out rates do not prove that poor people care less about education, then gave examples of alternative practical reasons why many people who I know personally drop out of school. I never said no one drops out of school because they don't care or that all people drop out of school because of the reasons I provided.
Ok, let's setsome things straight. I never said poor people care less about education...I said the dropout rat ein low income areas would support the belief that low income areas care less about education.
Anyhow, I do really respect your point of view, I just disagree on some of the details.
See, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm not purporting to know why the kids in that article weren't good at softball. (No need to skew the story, by the way.) I'm just saying that you don't really know either, and that you have to be CAREFUL before assigning value attributes to entire groups of people, and that there are a multitude of reasons why a poor kid might be bad at softball.
I can tell you this, since anecdotal information is so valued around here - I haven't the slightest idea how to play softball. And I'm white, well-educated, wasn't living in poverty in primary school, and have parents who value education more than any parents I know (one of them's a teacher!). You say people don't value education and imply that they don't care about their kids if they don't value "that level of instruction" about sports, but have you ever stopped to think that maybe some people just don't value softball?? I know I was too busy studying when I was in school to have any time for or interest in things like that. It sure as fuck doesn't mean I didn't value education or that my parents didn't care about me. The leaps of logic around here tonight are astounding!
You keep saying i am generalizing, but you are doing the same thing, you are making excuses for why they are not there by saing, Helth, no money, busy working. Iam sorry but those excuses your implying that they are doing everything in their power to succeed but in reality there is no progress being made and the stats don't match your excuses, so you telling me that the over 50% dropout rate is because all the parents are to busy working??? Yet welfare receiptians are increasing. If they are working so much then they would not be on welfare, Its almost impossible to have a decent job and receive welfare, my wifes sister had an issue with this, she worked at Dillars and working more than 30 hours a week making $7 an hour put her over qualified.
I know i am painting with a broad brush, but I am speaking from experience. Your excuses don't line up with their progress (none) and mine do.