Great point....I hate it that what you said will labeled racist on this forum. But its not. Disagreeing with a minority situation does not make you racist.
Great, then maybe you can explain this?:
'The report attributes part of the cause to the "powerful role of persistent discrimination in housing, credit and labour markets. African-Americans and Hispanics were at least twice as likely to receive high-cost home mortgages as whites with similar incomes," the report says.'
And why do you think that is??? Does it say that?? No? Well why??? If its true which it probably is....why are they being discriminatory??? Dont you think their must be a pretty good business decision on the matter? OR...do you think its one big conspiracy to keep the Blacks and Hispanics down?? :roll:
Thank God The term "black" was used in the OP's title....I would have been burned at the stake by now.
Did you really just say that discrimination is good business policy??
I did not make it up, no reason to... you can probably look it up if you'd like. I guess you are saying that welfare money is not abused?
I am losing some patience with some of you. For every question you ask why is this? There is a very simple reason. And racism goes boths ways, and I would be wiling to bet anything that reverse racisim is much more of an issue today. All my points come from the truth not racisim.
Minorities have it very easy today, there is alot that goes into getting loans, such as credit, collertal, etc.
You guys are trying to find some abstract reason to find racisim in everything that dosent go a minorties way.
I am amused that you guys think its fair what the gov gives. For how hard I assume some of you work don't you think its ridiculous that YOU have to pay for what they recieve as handouts.
Conclusion - They like being taken care of and the gov(you) footing the bill. Next time you guys are out go ahead and drive through the inner city and tell me what you see, I drive through Over the Rhine (cincinnati) every morning and through the West Side (Price HIll) and i see houses with no windows, 3 year olds out at 11pm and... cars with rims, very nice cloathing and jewlery.
Like I said put very strict rules on welfare and you will see alot of improvements in personal responsibility.
aerial, is that you??
Do you have actual factual data about the rate at which welfare money is abused, 3-year-olds are out at 11 PM, etc.?
And did you REALLY just say, "Minorities have it very easy today"?? Will you please explain to me exactly how Native Americans have it easy today? Thank you.
Some of you just don't get it and seem percectly fine with affirmitive action and welfare. In my area last year around the back to school time of year the gov gave handouts (Money) to people on welfare for them to get their kids back to school items (pencils, notebooks,etc.) and what did they do with the money. They went to wal-mart to buy Tv's, playstations, videogames.
Do you have any evidence of this? Did someone follow these people to the Walmart and note down what they bought and with what money they paid for it? Sounds like just more racist bullshit to me.
why is it racist? I don't get the idea that the poster hates minorities at all.
I can tell you that in MN the EBT program has two parts. One that can be spent on food and one that is cash benefits. Each person can take that cash out and spend it on whatever they like. that is what makes it so hard to point to statistics that show the abuses. If you could track them all they wouldn't happen. That is where the cash comes in. I don't know if all states are the same way, but it is an issue in MN. I know from experience with the population that uses these services that the money is not being spent on necessities by all. But the abuse is not limited to African Americans at all, poor whites are just as guilty of the abuse. It is a welfare issue, not a color issue
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Do you have actual factual data about the rate at which welfare money is abused, 3-year-olds are out at 11 PM, etc.?
Well, I know this isn't addressed to me, but I think if you had ever actually had to drive through an area (or walk through) like Over the Rhine you wouldn't be questioning and asking for "factual data" about young kids being out WAY TOO late and left with not much older kids...no parent around.
Now, is that because the parent is working 2 jobs, etc? Maybe. But the sheer volumn of kids of all ages that are left to roam the streets very late at night in OTR at least is ridiculous beyond belief. And really, I've walked up Vine street in Cincy after a night baseball game a few times and I would never do that again. Talk about racism.
I think it'd be better to try and stick to other topics regarding this situation.
Do you have actual factual data about the rate at which welfare money is abused, 3-year-olds are out at 11 PM, etc.?
And did you REALLY just say, "Minorities have it very easy today"?? Will you please explain to me exactly how Native Americans have it easy today? Thank you.
Nope no aerial here...
I don't know that there is any factual data describing ages and what time of night they are out to. If you have to drvie through an area like i do on a daily basis to get home, such as cincybearcat said there is no disputing how young some of these children are and how late they are out with no supervision. This is not new or suprising and is pretty humurous that you would question it.
As far as welfare money being abused, I will take that as a sracastic question. You can tell its being abused simply by looking at the conditions of where they live in the inner city compared to their cloathing and cars.
Yes minorities do have it very easy today, we actually bend over backwards to do everyting in our power to give them everything we work for. Its funny how I am being called a racisist by people when all the things I am pointing out are as plain as day. I don't know much about Natives I do know they get some benefits if they are recognized as a tribe and reservations have their own GOV. They set the taxes, and the justice system. Beyond that I am not sure of anything else to my knowledge, I am ignorant to that subject. But I will say that NA are not the issue here, we are talking about why certin monirties can not progress and their reasons.
ALso my solution on welfare about not letting them reproduce was not suggesting abortion, It was simply that if you have a child, then the gov will not pay for that, you are on your own now to raise your family and be a parent.
This has been a fun debate, but please with calling me a racist, I am far from it. I am glad to see that people in here that have actually experience what I am talking about are sticking up for me.
I did not make it up, no reason to... you can probably look it up if you'd like. I guess you are saying that welfare money is not abused?
I am losing some patience with some of you. For every question you ask why is this? There is a very simple reason. And racism goes boths ways, and I would be wiling to bet anything that reverse racisim is much more of an issue today. All my points come from the truth not racisim.
Minorities have it very easy today, there is alot that goes into getting loans, such as credit, collertal, etc.
You guys are trying to find some abstract reason to find racisim in everything that dosent go a minorties way.
I am amused that you guys think its fair what the gov gives. For how hard I assume some of you work don't you think its ridiculous that YOU have to pay for what they recieve as handouts.
Conclusion - They like being taken care of and the gov(you) footing the bill. Next time you guys are out go ahead and drive through the inner city and tell me what you see, I drive through Over the Rhine (cincinnati) every morning and through the West Side (Price HIll) and i see houses with no windows, 3 year olds out at 11pm and... cars with rims, very nice cloathing and jewlery.
Like I said put very strict rules on welfare and you will see alot of improvements in personal responsibility.
I am amazed at the conclusions you have drawn. Your comments are narrow-minded and ethnocentric and frankly racist. I suggest you sign up for some sociology classes. By the way, if those on welfare shouldn't reproduce, then there would be no families among corporate America since corporations receive much more government subsidies than any minority ethnic group.
I did not make it up, no reason to... you can probably look it up if you'd like. I guess you are saying that welfare money is not abused?
I am losing some patience with some of you. For every question you ask why is this? There is a very simple reason. And racism goes boths ways, and I would be wiling to bet anything that reverse racisim is much more of an issue today. All my points come from the truth not racisim.
Minorities have it very easy today, there is alot that goes into getting loans, such as credit, collertal, etc.
You guys are trying to find some abstract reason to find racisim in everything that dosent go a minorties way.
I am amused that you guys think its fair what the gov gives. For how hard I assume some of you work don't you think its ridiculous that YOU have to pay for what they recieve as handouts.
Conclusion - They like being taken care of and the gov(you) footing the bill. Next time you guys are out go ahead and drive through the inner city and tell me what you see, I drive through Over the Rhine (cincinnati) every morning and through the West Side (Price HIll) and i see houses with no windows, 3 year olds out at 11pm and... cars with rims, very nice cloathing and jewlery.
Like I said put very strict rules on welfare and you will see alot of improvements in personal responsibility.
I am amazed at the conclusions you have drawn. Your comments are narrow-minded and ethnocentric and frankly racist. I suggest you sign up for some sociology classes. By the way, if those on welfare shouldn't reproduce, then there would be no families among corporate America since corporations receive much more government subsidies than any minority ethnic group.
Last I checked American Corporations contribute to American and Society. A single parent of 6 (paid for by the GOV/ you) does not contribute to America or Society. Please explain why I am a racisit and what i have said is false and please explain why i need to take some sociology classes.
Last I checked American Corporations contribute to American and Society. A single parent of 6 (paid for by the GOV/ you) does not contribute to America or Society. Please explain why I am a racisit and what i have said is false and please explain why i need to take some sociology classes.[/quote]
I think you need to take sociology classes because perception does not = reality. Just because you perceive something to be true doesn't make it so. The broad generalizations you made in your prior comments reflect racism because you state, among other things, that they like being taken care of, a statement you cannot back up with anything objective other than your narrow perception. How do you know that a single parent of 6 doesn't contribute? You don't have any evidence to make that kind of a statement. And American corporations-they are amoral, but that should be the subject of another thread. If you think that ethnic minorities have it easy and things handed to them in America, I suggest you watch the presentation by Greg Palast and RFK Jr. at the link below. Knowing that ethnic minorities were exponentially more likely to have their votes thrown out in the 2000 and 2004 elections suggests that things are far from being equal.
I think you need to take sociology classes because perception does not = reality. Just because you perceive something to be true doesn't make it so. The broad generalizations you made in your prior comments reflect racism because you state, among other things, that they like being taken care of, a statement you cannot back up with anything objective other than your narrow perception. How do you know that a single parent of 6 doesn't contribute? You don't have any evidence to make that kind of a statement. And American corporations-they are amoral, but that should be the subject of another thread. If you think that ethnic minorities have it easy and things handed to them in America, I suggest you watch the presentation by Greg Palast and RFK Jr. at the link below. Knowing that ethnic minorities were exponentially more likely to have their votes thrown out in the 2000 and 2004 elections suggests that things are far from being equal.
Actions/patterns = reality and neither of those are progressing especially in the inner city. None of my comments reflect racisim, my statement about them liking being taken care of seems to be backed up quite signifigantly, Blacks make up 14% of the population in the US and 40% is on welfare. How do i know a single mother of 6 does not contribute. Well maybe beacuse of the prision statistics of minorties with single parents. American corporations are not perfect and never claimed to be, I said they contribute such as providing products and jobs for americans. I can't watch the video right now as i am at work. I will watch later and respond. But I would say that we are beyond equal now and that privliges tilt in favor of minorites especially when a free education is just a race box check away.
I think you need to take sociology classes because perception does not = reality. Just because you perceive something to be true doesn't make it so. The broad generalizations you made in your prior comments reflect racism because you state, among other things, that they like being taken care of, a statement you cannot back up with anything objective other than your narrow perception. How do you know that a single parent of 6 doesn't contribute? You don't have any evidence to make that kind of a statement. And American corporations-they are amoral, but that should be the subject of another thread. If you think that ethnic minorities have it easy and things handed to them in America, I suggest you watch the presentation by Greg Palast and RFK Jr. at the link below. Knowing that ethnic minorities were exponentially more likely to have their votes thrown out in the 2000 and 2004 elections suggests that things are far from being equal.
Actions/patterns = reality and neither of those are progressing especially in the inner city. None of my comments reflect racisim, my statement about them liking being taken care of seems to be backed up quite signifigantly, Blacks make up 14% of the population in the US and 40% is on welfare. How do i know a single mother of 6 does not contribute. Well maybe beacuse of the prision statistics of minorties with single parents. American corporations are not perfect and never claimed to be, I said they contribute such as providing products and jobs for americans. I can't watch the video right now as i am at work. I will watch later and respond. But I would say that we are beyond equal now and that privliges tilt in favor of minorites especially when a free education is just a race box check away.
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
Are you being serious? Sure some jobs have gone overseas but to say they don't provide a large number of americans with jobs is pretty dumb.
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
Were not here to argue about corporations. Find me that stats of all US coprorations and how many are overseas, until then YES they do provide products and jobs for americans. They DO contribute to society.
Please read the link below about education and shut up. http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... dents.html
excerpt from article "Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s."
So yes they do have it easy. When i say that, I say that in terms of being able to succeed and progress. Life in general is not easy, but when you are given all the tools and complain and cry for more and more there is no excuse.
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
Are you being serious? Sure some jobs have gone overseas but to say they don't provide a large number of americans with jobs is pretty dumb.
in an economic environment with an unemployment rate near 10% and record corporate profits, to discount the amount of jobs lost by taking corporations overseas is pretty fucking dumb.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
Were not here to argue about corporations. Find me that stats of all US coprorations and how many are overseas, until then YES they do provide products and jobs for americans. They DO contribute to society.
Please read the link below about education and shut up. http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... dents.html
excerpt from article "Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s."
So yes they do have it easy. When i say that, I say that in terms of being able to succeed and progress. Life in general is not easy, but when you are given all the tools and complain and cry for more and more there is no excuse.
Two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005, according to a report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Were not here to argue about corporations. Find me that stats of all US coprorations and how many are overseas, until then YES they do provide products and jobs for americans. They DO contribute to society.
Please read the link below about education and shut up. http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... dents.html
excerpt from article "Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s."
So yes they do have it easy. When i say that, I say that in terms of being able to succeed and progress. Life in general is not easy, but when you are given all the tools and complain and cry for more and more there is no excuse.
so are you the one framing the debate here? for you to say minorities have it easy makes me think you are either very young, very naieve', or very callous...you have no idea.. not all of them are given those opportunities and you know it.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
Were not here to argue about corporations. Find me that stats of all US coprorations and how many are overseas, until then YES they do provide products and jobs for americans. They DO contribute to society.
Please read the link below about education and shut up. http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... dents.html
excerpt from article "Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s."
So yes they do have it easy. When i say that, I say that in terms of being able to succeed and progress. Life in general is not easy, but when you are given all the tools and complain and cry for more and more there is no excuse.
Two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005, according to a report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.
Last week, Forbes magazine published what the top U.S. corporations paid in taxes last year. “Most egregious,” Forbes notes, is General Electric, which “generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.” Big Oil giant Exxon Mobil, which last year reported a record $45.2 billion profit, paid the most taxes of any corporation, but none of it went to the IRS:
Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas.
Mother Jones’ Adam Weinstein notes that, despite benefiting from corporate welfare in the U.S., Exxon complains about paying high taxes, claiming that it threatens energy innovation research. Pat Garofalo at the Wonk Room notes that big corporations’ tax shelter practices similar to Exxon’s shift a $100 billion annual tax burden onto U.S. taxpayers. In fact, in 2008, the Government Accountability Office found that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
None of my comments reflect racisim, my statement about them liking being taken care of seems to be backed up quite signifigantly, Blacks make up 14% of the population in the US and 40% is on welfare.
Just because a higher percentage of minorities are receiving government assistance doesn't necessarily mean that they "like being taken care of". Have you considered the possibility that they may actually need more assistance than the average white guy?
Do you really swing that wildly between compassionate, well-reasoned student of American history and callous racist, or do you just not know how to use the quote feature?
None of my comments reflect racisim, my statement about them liking being taken care of seems to be backed up quite signifigantly, Blacks make up 14% of the population in the US and 40% is on welfare.
Just because a higher percentage of minorities are receiving government assistance doesn't necessarily mean that they "like being taken care of". Have you considered the possibility that they may actually need more assistance than the average white guy?
I think that's the exact issue ... Many people need the help, and should not be denigrated for taking advantage of the opportunity. Large-scale societal factors can also be a cause of people's failures to exercise responsibility. Look at the bullshit reserve system in both the US and Canada, and the effects this has had on the ability of aboriginal people to integrate into society. Sorry, but that's not all their fault. If you're Metis (mixed white-Native), you get to take advantage of opportunities because you can slip right into the mainstream society (or perhaps you there all along, like I was). If you are born on a reserve, good luck.
It will help you understand the basis for my feelings on this subject and maybe it will help you understand why minorities in fact DON'T have it very easy today in America.
I'd also like to know how you feel about women's rights and try to explain why men make more money than women in America.
I have been reading this discussion and think there is fault in both sides, a minorities had it very difficult for a long time, but there has been improvement. I think that some "handouts" while intended to me helpful also could be a cause for other problems. I know many people from all different races that worked very hard to be in a good situation financially. There are lazy people from all sides, white, black, latino, asian, etc... I am also under the impression that the United States has far too many opportunities to improve and racism is not as big of a factor anymore. There is still racism in this country but it is not a one way street anymore.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
It will help you understand the basis for my feelings on this subject and maybe it will help you understand why minorities in fact DON'T have it very easy today in America.
I'd also like to know how you feel about women's rights and try to explain why men make more money than women in America.
Eliot
I understand the post, my only problem is that I see that being an excuse until there is serious progression.
BUt it is a good point, and my answer is I don't know, Does anyone really know?
I would say my lack of sympathy comes from where I live (CIncinnati, Price HIll) and what i see on a daily basis makes me very angry because my hard earned money is providing them things that are not rights, but privliges. Cincybeartcat can chime in on this but Cincinnati is going downhill fast.
I do enjoy the discussion here, and everybody seems very mature about it for such a touchy subject.
As for Women's rights, Its probably best to start a new thread but I would love to give you my input. And I think i can explain what you are asking.
updated 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
The percentage of public schools where more than three quarters of students are eligible for free or reduced price lunch — a key indicator of poverty — has increased in the past decade, and children at these schools are less likely to attend college or be taught by teachers with advanced degrees.
The findings come from a special report on high poverty schools included in the 2010 Condition of Education study, which reports on a broad range of academic indicators across K-12 and higher education.
The U.S. Department of Education report released Thursday found that the percent of high poverty schools rose from 12 to 17 percent between the 1999-2000 and 2007-2008 school years, even before the current recession was fully felt. By comparison, the overall poverty rate for children increased from 17 to 18 percent, leading researchers to believe that that a higher percentage of poor kids were signing up for the meal program.
Persistent challenge
In all, there were 16,122 schools considered high poverty.
Students at these schools face a number of disadvantages:
A smaller percentage of teachers at high poverty elementary and secondary schools have earned at least a master's degree and a regular professional certification than those in low poverty schools.
They are less likely to graduate from high school; on average, 68 percent of 12th grade students in high poverty-schools graduated with a diploma in 2007-2008, compared to 91 percent at low poverty schools. The numbers have actually gotten worse for students at high poverty schools, dropping from 86 to 68 percent since 1999-2000.
After graduating from a high poverty school, 28 percent enrolled in a four-year institution, compared to 52 percent of graduates from low poverty schools. And while college enrollment has increased by 8 percent since 1999-2000 for graduates from higher income schools, the numbers have remained stable for those in poor schools.
"It's a persistent challenge," said Val Plisko, associate commissioner for early childhood, international and crosscutting studies at the National Center for Education Statistics, which produced the report.
Daria Hall, director of K-12 policy development at the Education Trust, a nonpartisan Washington, D.C.-based think tank, said students at high poverty schools tend to start out behind their counterparts at low poverty schools and get less support at school.
"We take those students who have less outside of school, and we give them less of everything we know contributes to achievement inside of school, too," Hall said.
Cities have most high-poverty schools
Cities were more likely to have a larger percentage of high poverty schools. About 40 percent of city elementary schools fell into that category in 2007-2008, compared to 15 percent in towns and 13 percent in suburbs, according to the study. The report found a similar trend at the secondary school level.
The South and West had a higher percentage of public elementary schools that were high poverty than the Northeast and Midwest, 24 percent compared to 16 and 12 percent, respectively. Mississippi had the highest percentage nationwide — 52 percent of its public elementary schools are considered high poverty. Louisiana, New Mexico, the District of Columbia and California were also pointed out as having higher percentages of low income elementary schools.
Students at high poverty schools are more likely to be minorities.
Hispanic students, for example, made up 46 percent of students at high poverty elementary schools and 11 percent of students at low poverty schools in the 2007-2008 school year. White students, by comparison, made up 14 percent of students at high poverty elementary schools, and 75 percent at low poverty elementary schools. High poverty schools also have a larger percentage of students with limited English proficiency.
Lower average scores
Students at these schools had lower average scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress in reading and math than those at low poverty schools, though their scores have steadily increased in both subjects, and in some areas, such as 4th-grade reading, the achievement gap has decreased.
The Condition of Education report also included a number of other academic indicators, including overall figures on enrollment, high school graduation rates, and college attainment.
Enrollment among children 3 to 4 has increased from 20 to 53 percent between 1970 and 2008. Plisko said the increase, which leveled off at about 2000, could be attributed to an increase in the number of women entering the labor force during those decades, and the start of research suggesting early education for disadvantaged students.
The percentage of 16 to 24-year-old students not enrolled in school, and who do not have a high school diploma or equivalent degree, has dropped from 14 to 8 percent between 1980 and 2008. The total number of college post-secondary degrees earned has also risen markedly, from 2.3 to 3.1 million from 1997-1998 and 2007-2008.
"We're holding our own given the difficult times we live in," Plisko said.
...........what was someone saying about how easy minorities have it? with shitty education they have no hope of bettering themselves or their communities. it is a vicious cycle...bad education ---> poor money making potential---> little chance of self improvement----> continued generational poverty with little hope for their children's futures...
this is becoming institutionalized poverty...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I would also love to see the attendance stats at these low poverty schools. You have to actuall show up to school in order to learn. Blaming everything on the system and teachers is a joke. Kids in low poverty area and school districts don't care about school or learning.
really???? they provide jobs for americans? most corporations have shipped their production overseas, thus taking jobs away from american workers. they also moved their headquarters to other countries so they avoid paying US taxes.
Are you being serious? Sure some jobs have gone overseas but to say they don't provide a large number of americans with jobs is pretty dumb.
in an economic environment with an unemployment rate near 10% and record corporate profits, to discount the amount of jobs lost by taking corporations overseas is pretty fucking dumb.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH You said fucking dumb. You win tough guy.
Jesus, I never "discount the amount of jobs lost by taking corporation overseas". read again, and again since you seem to need to. Then read it again.
I just said that it was dumb to say corporations do not provide a lot of jobs for americans. Pretty fucking dumb even.
Comments
So you're pro-abortion then?
I don't know who you are, but I like you. :thumbup:
Did you really just say that discrimination is good business policy??
aerial, is that you??
Do you have actual factual data about the rate at which welfare money is abused, 3-year-olds are out at 11 PM, etc.?
And did you REALLY just say, "Minorities have it very easy today"?? Will you please explain to me exactly how Native Americans have it easy today? Thank you.
why is it racist? I don't get the idea that the poster hates minorities at all.
I can tell you that in MN the EBT program has two parts. One that can be spent on food and one that is cash benefits. Each person can take that cash out and spend it on whatever they like. that is what makes it so hard to point to statistics that show the abuses. If you could track them all they wouldn't happen. That is where the cash comes in. I don't know if all states are the same way, but it is an issue in MN. I know from experience with the population that uses these services that the money is not being spent on necessities by all. But the abuse is not limited to African Americans at all, poor whites are just as guilty of the abuse. It is a welfare issue, not a color issue
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Well, I know this isn't addressed to me, but I think if you had ever actually had to drive through an area (or walk through) like Over the Rhine you wouldn't be questioning and asking for "factual data" about young kids being out WAY TOO late and left with not much older kids...no parent around.
Now, is that because the parent is working 2 jobs, etc? Maybe. But the sheer volumn of kids of all ages that are left to roam the streets very late at night in OTR at least is ridiculous beyond belief. And really, I've walked up Vine street in Cincy after a night baseball game a few times and I would never do that again. Talk about racism.
I think it'd be better to try and stick to other topics regarding this situation.
Do you have actual factual data about the rate at which welfare money is abused, 3-year-olds are out at 11 PM, etc.?
And did you REALLY just say, "Minorities have it very easy today"?? Will you please explain to me exactly how Native Americans have it easy today? Thank you.
Nope no aerial here...
I don't know that there is any factual data describing ages and what time of night they are out to. If you have to drvie through an area like i do on a daily basis to get home, such as cincybearcat said there is no disputing how young some of these children are and how late they are out with no supervision. This is not new or suprising and is pretty humurous that you would question it.
As far as welfare money being abused, I will take that as a sracastic question. You can tell its being abused simply by looking at the conditions of where they live in the inner city compared to their cloathing and cars.
Yes minorities do have it very easy today, we actually bend over backwards to do everyting in our power to give them everything we work for. Its funny how I am being called a racisist by people when all the things I am pointing out are as plain as day. I don't know much about Natives I do know they get some benefits if they are recognized as a tribe and reservations have their own GOV. They set the taxes, and the justice system. Beyond that I am not sure of anything else to my knowledge, I am ignorant to that subject. But I will say that NA are not the issue here, we are talking about why certin monirties can not progress and their reasons.
ALso my solution on welfare about not letting them reproduce was not suggesting abortion, It was simply that if you have a child, then the gov will not pay for that, you are on your own now to raise your family and be a parent.
This has been a fun debate, but please with calling me a racist, I am far from it. I am glad to see that people in here that have actually experience what I am talking about are sticking up for me.
Last I checked American Corporations contribute to American and Society. A single parent of 6 (paid for by the GOV/ you) does not contribute to America or Society. Please explain why I am a racisit and what i have said is false and please explain why i need to take some sociology classes.
I think you need to take sociology classes because perception does not = reality. Just because you perceive something to be true doesn't make it so. The broad generalizations you made in your prior comments reflect racism because you state, among other things, that they like being taken care of, a statement you cannot back up with anything objective other than your narrow perception. How do you know that a single parent of 6 doesn't contribute? You don't have any evidence to make that kind of a statement. And American corporations-they are amoral, but that should be the subject of another thread. If you think that ethnic minorities have it easy and things handed to them in America, I suggest you watch the presentation by Greg Palast and RFK Jr. at the link below. Knowing that ethnic minorities were exponentially more likely to have their votes thrown out in the 2000 and 2004 elections suggests that things are far from being equal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9QWpCWbbY
Actions/patterns = reality and neither of those are progressing especially in the inner city. None of my comments reflect racisim, my statement about them liking being taken care of seems to be backed up quite signifigantly, Blacks make up 14% of the population in the US and 40% is on welfare. How do i know a single mother of 6 does not contribute. Well maybe beacuse of the prision statistics of minorties with single parents. American corporations are not perfect and never claimed to be, I said they contribute such as providing products and jobs for americans. I can't watch the video right now as i am at work. I will watch later and respond. But I would say that we are beyond equal now and that privliges tilt in favor of minorites especially when a free education is just a race box check away.
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Finally making sense to me.
Are you being serious? Sure some jobs have gone overseas but to say they don't provide a large number of americans with jobs is pretty dumb.
obviously you've never seen 'soul man'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZFTSCLzGTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtsvIpJ ... re=related
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
also, where do you see free education for minorities??? there are grants and loans that we all can qualify for. i don't see the federal gov't giving away free educations based on race to whoever wants one...
Were not here to argue about corporations. Find me that stats of all US coprorations and how many are overseas, until then YES they do provide products and jobs for americans. They DO contribute to society.
Please read the link below about education and shut up.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... dents.html
excerpt from article "Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s."
So yes they do have it easy. When i say that, I say that in terms of being able to succeed and progress. Life in general is not easy, but when you are given all the tools and complain and cry for more and more there is no excuse.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/busin ... .html?_r=3
2 out of every 3 US corporations didn't pay taxes from 98-05
Two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005, according to a report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
and
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-tax/
Last week, Forbes magazine published what the top U.S. corporations paid in taxes last year. “Most egregious,” Forbes notes, is General Electric, which “generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.” Big Oil giant Exxon Mobil, which last year reported a record $45.2 billion profit, paid the most taxes of any corporation, but none of it went to the IRS:
Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas.
Mother Jones’ Adam Weinstein notes that, despite benefiting from corporate welfare in the U.S., Exxon complains about paying high taxes, claiming that it threatens energy innovation research. Pat Garofalo at the Wonk Room notes that big corporations’ tax shelter practices similar to Exxon’s shift a $100 billion annual tax burden onto U.S. taxpayers. In fact, in 2008, the Government Accountability Office found that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Do you really swing that wildly between compassionate, well-reasoned student of American history and callous racist, or do you just not know how to use the quote feature?
I think that's the exact issue ... Many people need the help, and should not be denigrated for taking advantage of the opportunity. Large-scale societal factors can also be a cause of people's failures to exercise responsibility. Look at the bullshit reserve system in both the US and Canada, and the effects this has had on the ability of aboriginal people to integrate into society. Sorry, but that's not all their fault. If you're Metis (mixed white-Native), you get to take advantage of opportunities because you can slip right into the mainstream society (or perhaps you there all along, like I was). If you are born on a reserve, good luck.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=132405&start=90#p3006846
It will help you understand the basis for my feelings on this subject and maybe it will help you understand why minorities in fact DON'T have it very easy today in America.
I'd also like to know how you feel about women's rights and try to explain why men make more money than women in America.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Eliot
I understand the post, my only problem is that I see that being an excuse until there is serious progression.
BUt it is a good point, and my answer is I don't know, Does anyone really know?
I would say my lack of sympathy comes from where I live (CIncinnati, Price HIll) and what i see on a daily basis makes me very angry because my hard earned money is providing them things that are not rights, but privliges. Cincybeartcat can chime in on this but Cincinnati is going downhill fast.
I do enjoy the discussion here, and everybody seems very mature about it for such a touchy subject.
As for Women's rights, Its probably best to start a new thread but I would love to give you my input. And I think i can explain what you are asking.
Percentage of high-poverty schools rises
Report: Children at these schools are less likely to graduate from college
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37380825/ns/us_news-life/
By CHRISTINE ARMARIO
updated 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
The percentage of public schools where more than three quarters of students are eligible for free or reduced price lunch — a key indicator of poverty — has increased in the past decade, and children at these schools are less likely to attend college or be taught by teachers with advanced degrees.
The findings come from a special report on high poverty schools included in the 2010 Condition of Education study, which reports on a broad range of academic indicators across K-12 and higher education.
The U.S. Department of Education report released Thursday found that the percent of high poverty schools rose from 12 to 17 percent between the 1999-2000 and 2007-2008 school years, even before the current recession was fully felt. By comparison, the overall poverty rate for children increased from 17 to 18 percent, leading researchers to believe that that a higher percentage of poor kids were signing up for the meal program.
Persistent challenge
In all, there were 16,122 schools considered high poverty.
Students at these schools face a number of disadvantages:
A smaller percentage of teachers at high poverty elementary and secondary schools have earned at least a master's degree and a regular professional certification than those in low poverty schools.
They are less likely to graduate from high school; on average, 68 percent of 12th grade students in high poverty-schools graduated with a diploma in 2007-2008, compared to 91 percent at low poverty schools. The numbers have actually gotten worse for students at high poverty schools, dropping from 86 to 68 percent since 1999-2000.
After graduating from a high poverty school, 28 percent enrolled in a four-year institution, compared to 52 percent of graduates from low poverty schools. And while college enrollment has increased by 8 percent since 1999-2000 for graduates from higher income schools, the numbers have remained stable for those in poor schools.
"It's a persistent challenge," said Val Plisko, associate commissioner for early childhood, international and crosscutting studies at the National Center for Education Statistics, which produced the report.
Daria Hall, director of K-12 policy development at the Education Trust, a nonpartisan Washington, D.C.-based think tank, said students at high poverty schools tend to start out behind their counterparts at low poverty schools and get less support at school.
"We take those students who have less outside of school, and we give them less of everything we know contributes to achievement inside of school, too," Hall said.
Cities have most high-poverty schools
Cities were more likely to have a larger percentage of high poverty schools. About 40 percent of city elementary schools fell into that category in 2007-2008, compared to 15 percent in towns and 13 percent in suburbs, according to the study. The report found a similar trend at the secondary school level.
The South and West had a higher percentage of public elementary schools that were high poverty than the Northeast and Midwest, 24 percent compared to 16 and 12 percent, respectively. Mississippi had the highest percentage nationwide — 52 percent of its public elementary schools are considered high poverty. Louisiana, New Mexico, the District of Columbia and California were also pointed out as having higher percentages of low income elementary schools.
Students at high poverty schools are more likely to be minorities.
Hispanic students, for example, made up 46 percent of students at high poverty elementary schools and 11 percent of students at low poverty schools in the 2007-2008 school year. White students, by comparison, made up 14 percent of students at high poverty elementary schools, and 75 percent at low poverty elementary schools.
High poverty schools also have a larger percentage of students with limited English proficiency.
Lower average scores
Students at these schools had lower average scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress in reading and math than those at low poverty schools, though their scores have steadily increased in both subjects, and in some areas, such as 4th-grade reading, the achievement gap has decreased.
The Condition of Education report also included a number of other academic indicators, including overall figures on enrollment, high school graduation rates, and college attainment.
Enrollment among children 3 to 4 has increased from 20 to 53 percent between 1970 and 2008. Plisko said the increase, which leveled off at about 2000, could be attributed to an increase in the number of women entering the labor force during those decades, and the start of research suggesting early education for disadvantaged students.
The percentage of 16 to 24-year-old students not enrolled in school, and who do not have a high school diploma or equivalent degree, has dropped from 14 to 8 percent between 1980 and 2008. The total number of college post-secondary degrees earned has also risen markedly, from 2.3 to 3.1 million from 1997-1998 and 2007-2008.
"We're holding our own given the difficult times we live in," Plisko said.
...........what was someone saying about how easy minorities have it? with shitty education they have no hope of bettering themselves or their communities. it is a vicious cycle...bad education ---> poor money making potential---> little chance of self improvement----> continued generational poverty with little hope for their children's futures...
this is becoming institutionalized poverty...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH You said fucking dumb. You win tough guy.
Jesus, I never "discount the amount of jobs lost by taking corporation overseas". read again, and again since you seem to need to. Then read it again.
I just said that it was dumb to say corporations do not provide a lot of jobs for americans. Pretty fucking dumb even.