1.Triple Crown
2. Team in playoffs
3 Performing in September
1 - doesn't mean he had a better year than trout
2 - trout's team had a better record
3 - so did trout...also, season is six months long, not one
1. No, but he had a historically monumental year. People are gonna remember that Cabrera won the Triple Crown. They might remember that Trout had an epic rookie year, but they're not gonna remember the ins and outs of it.
2. Sure, but he didn't elevate his team to do what it had to do to continue playing after today.
3. Where was Trout when his team needed him most? Finishing behind the 2x defending AL champs is nothing to be ashamed of, but they couldn't even overcome the A's. They're likely in the same position with or without him.
no disrespect, but these arguments are futile.
the central divisions should be contracted. they skew opinions because the comp is inferior to the other divisions. just look at what cabrera did vs the royals/indians/etc vs what trout did against the 2 of the 3 best AL teams that reside in his division.
congrats to cabrera, but the arguments for him are comical. he will win because people are still mesmorized by outdated stats like RBI, but trout is far more deserving if you look at the entire picture.
I'm over talking about it. I could care less who wins individual awards. I am just hoping that this year's vote educates people on how to better evaluate players. there is a lot more to the game than hitting...make fun advanced stats all you want, but if you 'watch games' it isn't hard to realize this fact.
so I agree that we should celebrate cbrera's accomplishment. then we should honor the guy who had the best year, who is obviously trout
I think cabrera will win. and 20 years from now people will look back and laugh at the outcome
so he deserves the award for being marginally better at the plate...and severely deficient (compared to trout) in all other aspects??
We're not comparing anyone to lots of other great players...we are comparing trout and cabrera
I don't see how that makes sense
I don't think 60 rbi is that marginal.
rbi is a flawed and outdated stat. entirely dependent on players in front of said player getting on base. you can't knock em in if the bases are empty. it was useful in the 60's and 70's, but the sport has evolved and there are better ways to evaluate players.
what's diff between rbi and runs scored? meaningless counting stats. for the record, trout had 20 more runs scored in 30 less games.
look at their baserunning and defensive metrics. will blow your mind
the central divisions should be contracted. they skew opinions because the comp is inferior to the other divisions. just look at what cabrera did vs the royals/indians/etc vs what trout did against the 2 of the 3 best AL teams that reside in his division.
congrats to cabrera, but the arguments for him are comical. he will win because people are still mesmorized by outdated stats like RBI, but trout is far more deserving if you look at the entire picture.
I'm over talking about it. I could care less who wins individual awards. I am just hoping that this year's vote educates people on how to better evaluate players. there is a lot more to the game than hitting...make fun advanced stats all you want, but if you 'watch games' it isn't hard to realize this fact.
so I agree that we should celebrate cbrera's accomplishment. then we should honor the guy who had the best year, who is obviously trout
I think cabrera will win. and 20 years from now people will look back and laugh at the outcome
The team did what they had to do. Can't blame them b/c they play in a weak division. Besides that, the Central divisions in both leagues are responsible for their fair share of WS champs, so it must not be that weak.
Those stats are no more outdated than the stats you're offering are new and hip. It's all just numbers. I'd rather have results.
Again, how valuable can those stats be if Trout's team, which has a more impressive roster top to bottom, is sitting at home?
I don't know how anybody could say a player sitting at home in October is the obvious MVP.
I think 20 years from now people will be waiting another 30 years for another triple crown winner.
rbi is a flawed and outdated stat. entirely dependent on players in front of said player getting on base. you can't knock em in if the bases are empty. it was useful in the 60's and 70's, but the sport has evolved and there are better ways to evaluate players.
what's diff between rbi and runs scored? meaningless counting stats. for the record, trout had 20 more runs scored in 30 less games.
look at their baserunning and defensive metrics. will blow your mind
If it was useful in the 60s and 70s it's useful today. The game hasn't changed that much.
You wanna talk about outdated stats? Stolen bases is at the top of the list.
rbi is a flawed and outdated stat. entirely dependent on players in front of said player getting on base. you can't knock em in if the bases are empty. it was useful in the 60's and 70's, but the sport has evolved and there are better ways to evaluate players.
what's diff between rbi and runs scored? meaningless counting stats. for the record, trout had 20 more runs scored in 30 less games.
look at their baserunning and defensive metrics. will blow your mind
I get that there are better ways to evaluate players than RBI's these days, but I think people write off RBIs too easily these days. Yes, you need people to get on base in front of you which can't be controlled by the hitter. But at the same time, the hitter still has to get a clutch hit to drive in runs which isn't an easy thing to do.
Ichiro is still getting used to the idea of winning.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
my 2 cents on mvp ... miggy had a great year but if i had a vote - it would be for trout ... offensively - they are similar with trout having a bit less power but way more speed (49 sbs!) ... plus, i think defensively he's far more valuable than miggy ... i honestly don't buy the playoffs thing cuz the reality is that the central division was the weakest in the AL ... the angels were 500 and above against all divisions ... can't say the same about the tigers ...
I didn't know he was still playing til last night.
Looks like Berkman is hanging em up too. Got an at bat and a huge ovation last night, and when he grounded out he made sure to jog down and touch first base. It was kinda sad. Glad he got a ring last year with my Cards. Class act.
my 2 cents on mvp ... miggy had a great year but if i had a vote - it would be for trout ... offensively - they are similar with trout having a bit less power but way more speed (49 sbs!) ... plus, i think defensively he's far more valuable than miggy ... i honestly don't buy the playoffs thing cuz the reality is that the central division was the weakest in the AL ... the angels were 500 and above against all divisions ... can't say the same about the tigers ...
Way less power
They're ranked about the same among their positon.
West is a stronger division, but Trout also has a better team around him.
my 2 cents on mvp ... miggy had a great year but if i had a vote - it would be for trout ... offensively - they are similar with trout having a bit less power but way more speed (49 sbs!) ... plus, i think defensively he's far more valuable than miggy ... i honestly don't buy the playoffs thing cuz the reality is that the central division was the weakest in the AL ... the angels were 500 and above against all divisions ... can't say the same about the tigers ...
When the Tigers needed Cabrera the most he stepped up his game...the last 6 weeks of the season the miggy was way better than Trout...up to that point I would have said Trout.
But miggy carried the Tigers from mid August on...and played the entire season with a lead off hitter that is inconsistant at times, still strikes out too much and doesn't walk as much...even though Jackson came into his own and was far better than last year he still can be inconsistant. They never had any player consistant in the number 2 slot and used multiple players...yet he still drove in 139.
Miggy is the MVP, it's a 162 game season and miggy never slumped...model of consistency and most importantly he delivered in September when his team needed it...Trout slumped in September...257 average, 5 HR, 6 RBI'S...Miggy 10 HR, 27 RBI'S, 308.
Take a peek since Aug. 1 heading into Tuesday:
Cabrera: .343 with 42 runs, 19 homers, 52 RBI, .411 on-base percentage, .676 slugging, 1.087 on-base plus slugging percentage.
Pat Neshek @PatNeshek
Please pray for my family. Tonight my wife & I lost our first & only son 23 hours after he was born with no explanation.
that's terrible. wont get any pub, but far more important than the dumb mvp debate
best wishes to the neshek fam
Pat went to high school on the other side of town from me. Great guy - very cool, "old-time" type player. If you send him a baseball card in the mail, he sends one signed back. He also trades with fans. Unique guy.
Terrible, terrible news for him.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1 2023-08-31 Wrigley 2 2023-09-15 Fenway 1
WC 1-game play-in
AL: Texas over Baltimore
NL: St. Louis over Atlanta
LDS
AL: Texas over NY in 5, Oakland over Detroit in 4
NL: Cincinnati over San Francisco, Washington over St. Louis
LCS
AL: Texas over Oakland in 5 games
NL: Cincinnati over Washington in 6 games
World Series
Texas over Cincinnati in 5 games. Texas finally breaks through. This team has been too good for too long now to not be a World Champion.
I just don't see a lot of close series' this year. Too many teams with too many Achilles' heels, weird lineup problems, streaky dispositions. The teams that streak now will probably steam roll their opponents (i.e. Oakland in the LCS) and the teams that fade now will probably be pushovers (i.e. Detroit in the LCS).
What do you think?
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1 2023-08-31 Wrigley 2 2023-09-15 Fenway 1
Double whammy- found out today that I have to go to a wake tomorrow night and will miss the NL wild card game
I love the Braves. I watch like 70% of the games every year. I check the box score and highlights and read articles for every game I didn't watch live. I've been rooting for Chipper for what seems like forever. I was crushed when the Cards knocked out the Braves last year and then went on to win the WS. Now I will miss the most important game for the Braves since their glory days, one in which they can avenge last years disaster of an ending, and a game that could be my favorite ballplayer of all times last one.
So mad I have to miss this :x. And that's not even focusing on them important part of tomorrow night :(.
Cabrera wins triple crown or not he should be MVP...I do know this if the tigers don't have Cabrera they do not make the playoffs...and the Angels have Trout and they don't make the playoffs.
I know the Angels play in a tougher division...yada, yada, yada....for money money the triple crown has to be special...not 1 player has done it in 45 years.
i understand both sides of the argument. i don't really care who wins the mvp.
but the triple crown is absolutely is special. it's been 45 years since someone accomplished that feat. i understand people love all the new age stats and stuff and some of them are very useful. but to me, baseball more than any other sport, is meant to be romanticized and to have it's history embraced. yastrzemski, mantle, williams, gehrig, fox, kein, hornsby, cobb (fucking ty cobb!) are the names you associate with this. so of course it's special, and to demean it is ridiculous and petty. i remember, as a kid, being excited over gary sheffield making a run for it back in '92 (i think that was the year).
so assuming he holds on, congrats to cabrera on a truly remarkable feat.
I have to agree with you there ... something special about the triple crown ... I think its only been accomplished 13 times and no one in 45 years.
World Series
Texas over Cincinnati in 5 games. Texas finally breaks through. This team has been too good for too long now to not be a World Champion.
What do you think?
See: Buffalo Bills
That's what I started to think when they lost last year.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
NLDS
Cards over Nats in 5
Reds over Giants in 4
ALDS
Orioles over Yanks in 4
Tigers over A's in 4
NLCS
Cards over Reds in 6
ALCS
Tigers over Yanks in 7
WS
Cards over TIgers in 5
Admittedly being a homer, but if Carp and Waino can bring it they have about as good a shot as any and probably a better shot than last year.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Comments
definitely fun to watch!
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Please pray for my family. Tonight my wife & I lost our first & only son 23 hours after he was born with no explanation.
no disrespect, but these arguments are futile.
the central divisions should be contracted. they skew opinions because the comp is inferior to the other divisions. just look at what cabrera did vs the royals/indians/etc vs what trout did against the 2 of the 3 best AL teams that reside in his division.
congrats to cabrera, but the arguments for him are comical. he will win because people are still mesmorized by outdated stats like RBI, but trout is far more deserving if you look at the entire picture.
I'm over talking about it. I could care less who wins individual awards. I am just hoping that this year's vote educates people on how to better evaluate players. there is a lot more to the game than hitting...make fun advanced stats all you want, but if you 'watch games' it isn't hard to realize this fact.
so I agree that we should celebrate cbrera's accomplishment. then we should honor the guy who had the best year, who is obviously trout
I think cabrera will win. and 20 years from now people will look back and laugh at the outcome
rbi is a flawed and outdated stat. entirely dependent on players in front of said player getting on base. you can't knock em in if the bases are empty. it was useful in the 60's and 70's, but the sport has evolved and there are better ways to evaluate players.
what's diff between rbi and runs scored? meaningless counting stats. for the record, trout had 20 more runs scored in 30 less games.
look at their baserunning and defensive metrics. will blow your mind
that's terrible. wont get any pub, but far more important than the dumb mvp debate
best wishes to the neshek fam
The team did what they had to do. Can't blame them b/c they play in a weak division. Besides that, the Central divisions in both leagues are responsible for their fair share of WS champs, so it must not be that weak.
Those stats are no more outdated than the stats you're offering are new and hip. It's all just numbers. I'd rather have results.
Again, how valuable can those stats be if Trout's team, which has a more impressive roster top to bottom, is sitting at home?
I don't know how anybody could say a player sitting at home in October is the obvious MVP.
I think 20 years from now people will be waiting another 30 years for another triple crown winner.
If it was useful in the 60s and 70s it's useful today. The game hasn't changed that much.
You wanna talk about outdated stats? Stolen bases is at the top of the list.
I get that there are better ways to evaluate players than RBI's these days, but I think people write off RBIs too easily these days. Yes, you need people to get on base in front of you which can't be controlled by the hitter. But at the same time, the hitter still has to get a clutch hit to drive in runs which isn't an easy thing to do.
Congratulations to Miguel Cabrera.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I doubt it...no one laughing at Yastrzemski...20-30-40 years from now people will know who Cabrera is and what he accomplished.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi ... --mlb.html
I didn't know he was still playing til last night.
Looks like Berkman is hanging em up too. Got an at bat and a huge ovation last night, and when he grounded out he made sure to jog down and touch first base. It was kinda sad. Glad he got a ring last year with my Cards. Class act.
Way less power
They're ranked about the same among their positon.
West is a stronger division, but Trout also has a better team around him.
When the Tigers needed Cabrera the most he stepped up his game...the last 6 weeks of the season the miggy was way better than Trout...up to that point I would have said Trout.
But miggy carried the Tigers from mid August on...and played the entire season with a lead off hitter that is inconsistant at times, still strikes out too much and doesn't walk as much...even though Jackson came into his own and was far better than last year he still can be inconsistant. They never had any player consistant in the number 2 slot and used multiple players...yet he still drove in 139.
Miggy is the MVP, it's a 162 game season and miggy never slumped...model of consistency and most importantly he delivered in September when his team needed it...Trout slumped in September...257 average, 5 HR, 6 RBI'S...Miggy 10 HR, 27 RBI'S, 308.
Take a peek since Aug. 1 heading into Tuesday:
Cabrera: .343 with 42 runs, 19 homers, 52 RBI, .411 on-base percentage, .676 slugging, 1.087 on-base plus slugging percentage.
Trout: .284 with 49 runs, 12 homers, 28 RBI, 17 stolen bases, .381 OBP, .500 slugging, .881 OPS.
Miggy MVP
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Pat went to high school on the other side of town from me. Great guy - very cool, "old-time" type player. If you send him a baseball card in the mail, he sends one signed back. He also trades with fans. Unique guy.
Terrible, terrible news for him.
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1
Here's mine:
WC 1-game play-in
AL: Texas over Baltimore
NL: St. Louis over Atlanta
LDS
AL: Texas over NY in 5, Oakland over Detroit in 4
NL: Cincinnati over San Francisco, Washington over St. Louis
LCS
AL: Texas over Oakland in 5 games
NL: Cincinnati over Washington in 6 games
World Series
Texas over Cincinnati in 5 games. Texas finally breaks through. This team has been too good for too long now to not be a World Champion.
I just don't see a lot of close series' this year. Too many teams with too many Achilles' heels, weird lineup problems, streaky dispositions. The teams that streak now will probably steam roll their opponents (i.e. Oakland in the LCS) and the teams that fade now will probably be pushovers (i.e. Detroit in the LCS).
What do you think?
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1
They won't advance.
See: Buffalo Bills
Braves over Cards
Orioles over Rangers
Braves over Nats in 4
Reds over Giants in 4
Orioles over Yanks in 5
Detroit over As in 5
Reds over Braves in 6
As over Orioles in 6
Reds over As in 6
I wouldn't be surprised if I get every pick wrong though
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
I love the Braves. I watch like 70% of the games every year. I check the box score and highlights and read articles for every game I didn't watch live. I've been rooting for Chipper for what seems like forever. I was crushed when the Cards knocked out the Braves last year and then went on to win the WS. Now I will miss the most important game for the Braves since their glory days, one in which they can avenge last years disaster of an ending, and a game that could be my favorite ballplayer of all times last one.
So mad I have to miss this :x. And that's not even focusing on them important part of tomorrow night :(.
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
no doubt.
the phillies home opener is against....kansas city. yuck.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Cards over Braves
Orioles over Rangers
NLDS
Cards over Nats in 5
Reds over Giants in 4
ALDS
Orioles over Yanks in 4
Tigers over A's in 4
NLCS
Cards over Reds in 6
ALCS
Tigers over Yanks in 7
WS
Cards over TIgers in 5
Admittedly being a homer, but if Carp and Waino can bring it they have about as good a shot as any and probably a better shot than last year.
FUCK THE GIANTS!
:corn:
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful