Tim James is a racist

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OutOfBreath wrote:

The point here seems to be that the US has always spoken english, and therefore always should continue to do so. First of all, there have always been a large minority of spanish-speaking people in the US. Always. That's what warring with Mexico and Spain got you, after all. And when that minority is starting to get larger, well, it's damn reasonable that official documents etc are printed in the preferred language spoken by say 30% of the people. The US is at least billingual, especially in many southern states, and official language should reflect that. That would mean 2 official languages.

For comparison, Norway with 4m people have 3 official languages. Two different forms of Norwegian(!), plus Sami which is spoken by the natives in the north. Most of our forms and such are also available in English (and recently Polish, since we get workers from there now). I dont think it's hard for the US to maintain 2.

Peace
Dan

What's this? You mean your whole economy's not in ruins from having to print extra forms?????? And your whole society hasn't deteriorated from allowing people to speak their native tongues????

Hugh Freaking Dillon

scb wrote:

OutOfBreath wrote:

The point here seems to be that the US has always spoken english, and therefore always should continue to do so. First of all, there have always been a large minority of spanish-speaking people in the US. Always. That's what warring with Mexico and Spain got you, after all. And when that minority is starting to get larger, well, it's damn reasonable that official documents etc are printed in the preferred language spoken by say 30% of the people. The US is at least billingual, especially in many southern states, and official language should reflect that. That would mean 2 official languages.

For comparison, Norway with 4m people have 3 official languages. Two different forms of Norwegian(!), plus Sami which is spoken by the natives in the north. Most of our forms and such are also available in English (and recently Polish, since we get workers from there now). I dont think it's hard for the US to maintain 2.

Peace
Dan

What's this? You mean your whole economy's not in ruins from having to print extra forms?????? And your whole society hasn't deteriorated from allowing people to speak their native tongues????

mikepegg44

Johnny Sitar wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

and to the sorry old argument of well then everyone should be speaking Native American blah blah blah... That shit is old and tired. It is a terrible argument. Fucking Aramaic for everyone.

if you really believe this, then this WHOLE argument is moot. Including your and Tim's point of view.

how can you not see my point? Not all Native Americans spoke the same language. So for people to sit here and say if you want to be technical about it we should all be speaking Native American is ridiculous. Like I said, if that argument was the final say than shouldn't we all be speaking some ancient language like Aramaic or Sumerian? It is a poor argument at best. the Country of the United States was founded and like I said earlier, we should have one common language. I don't care which one it is, as long as it is one language that everyone who is a citizen here should know.

mikepegg44

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

youngster wrote:

scb wrote:

Would you mind answering my other questions, please? And why should people in New MEXICO, whose families have lived here on the same land and spoken the same language (Spanish) for generations, since this land WAS Mexico, be forced to speak English or forbidden from flying Mexican (or even Spanish) flags?

Should you be paid in pesos? Exempt from federal $$ for roads and bridges? Sing the Mexican national anthem at sporting events?

If you think so, write your Senators and Congressman and ask to secede from the union and become part of the Mexican government. My guess is you have a better life in the US than you would if NM was part of Mexico.

So... Does this mean that in order to be "American" you have to abandon all parts of your culture? "YOUR AMERICAN NOW, SON. IN AMERICA WE SPEAK AMERICAN... SO STOP THAT SI' SENOR SHIT... PUT DOWN THE TACO. GRAB A PIECE OF APPLIE PIE, AND BE HAPPY YOU LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE"

They aren't visiting. they aren't on vacation. why on earth is it so hard to think that if someone goes to a country to LIVE that they learn the local customs, assimilate a little into the culture and learn the language the majority speak? No one is saying quit being Mexican, or anything else for that matter.

Edit:
In fact if the reverse were to happen and I was to move to France and expect everyone to speak English I would be seen as an A-hole American trying to bully other countries.

Godfather.

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

sbc you probably think I'm a freakin redneck asshole.....and some cases you might be right but your concern for everybody and your posts always put a smile on my face,thanks kiddo people like you remind me that there is hope for the future

Godfather.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or what. But, regardless, you won't catch me using the word redneck in a derogatory way, since it refers to someone who has a sunburn from working hard in the fields all day. So, no, I don't think you're a redneck.

actually the term red neck comes from the people that lived and worked in the hills in the coal mines in the late 1800's early 1900's and would wear red scarfs around their necks,rednecks/hillbillys.
but anyway it was not mean't to be derogatory I mean't it.

Godfather.

cajunkiwi

prfctlefts wrote:

If we lived in Germany we would speak German would we not? Isn't english spoken in more places than any other language in the world..

Not necessarily. Well, you would, but you'd also be able to speak more than just German. I used to work at the International Cultural Center at LSU, and a lot of my friends were European - and every single one of them was at least trilingual. They learned their own native language, and then a few more so they could converse with people from the neighboring countries. They even had an anti-American joke about it:

What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language? American.

(note: not as funny as "What do American beer and sex in a canoe have in common? They're both f***ing close to water." )

Also, English isn't the most widely spoken language in the world - Mandarin Chinese is. English isn't even the second-most widely spoken language in the world - that would be Spanish or Hindi, depending on the study (and regardless of the study, 3x as many people speak Mandarin than speak whatever the #2 language is). English is, at best (and again, this depends on the specific study), the third-most widely spoken language in the world. It's not even the most common "second language" in the world - that would be French.

Though now that I read your comment again, you may be referring to the number of individual countries that speak English - and if I remember right, then English does have the distinction of being spoken in the greatest number of countries (either as a primary language, a secondary language, or a minority language in the trade and tourism industries).

facepollution

What a pointless advert, what statement is he actually trying to make? "We'll save money, and it makes sense" - those are the best reasons for marginalizing entire groups of society, who may well be in the process of learing English but aren't quite there yet? Learning a new language is not easy, and particularly when you are filling out official forms - you want to make sure you get it right, now that makes fucking sense!

And to any people who don't see this very thinly disguised display of racism, ask yourself this: if you were in this guy's position and you were looking to save money, can you honestly say that cutting the language options on a driving exam would be the first thing that would come to mind? And more to the point, of all the things you could choose to talk about in an advert to gain support, would you choose that? What kind of message does that send to the many people in that area who are not fluent in English, other than that they are not welcome if they can't read and write English perfectly? Like someone else said, does this prejudice extend to the millions of illiterate adults in the US?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

mikepegg44 wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

and to the sorry old argument of well then everyone should be speaking Native American blah blah blah... That shit is old and tired. It is a terrible argument. Fucking Aramaic for everyone.

if you really believe this, then this WHOLE argument is moot. Including your and Tim's point of view.

how can you not see my point? Not all Native Americans spoke the same language. So for people to sit here and say if you want to be technical about it we should all be speaking Native American is ridiculous. Like I said, if that argument was the final say than shouldn't we all be speaking some ancient language like Aramaic or Sumerian? It is a poor argument at best. the Country of the United States was founded and like I said earlier, we should have one common language. I don't care which one it is, as long as it is one language that everyone who is a citizen here should know.

look back at my post, and then go on a rant. I said "some Native American dialect". Not "one Native American language". Living in the Canadian Prairies, and having some Native cousins, I know all too well the history of their peoples.

And who decides that language, good sir? If it was Spanish, or Aramaic, would you not be in an uproar that you were being forced against your rights to learn a language that was not part of your culture?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

facepollution wrote:

What a pointless advert, what statement is he actually trying to make? "We'll save money, and it makes sense" - those are the best reasons for marginalizing entire groups of society, who may well be in the process of learing English but aren't quite there yet? Learning a new language is not easy, and particularly when you are filling out official forms - you want to make sure you get it right, now that makes fucking sense!

And to any people who don't see this very thinly disguised display of racism, ask yourself this: if you were in this guy's position and you were looking to save money, can you honestly say that cutting the language options on a driving exam would be the first thing that would come to mind? And more to the point, of all the things you could choose to talk about in an advert to gain support, would you choose that? What kind of message does that send to the many people in that area who are not fluent in English, other than that they are not welcome if they can't read and write English perfectly? Like someone else said, does this prejudice extend to the millions of illiterate adults in the US?

_

mikepegg44 wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

and to the sorry old argument of well then everyone should be speaking Native American blah blah blah... That shit is old and tired. It is a terrible argument. Fucking Aramaic for everyone.

if you really believe this, then this WHOLE argument is moot. Including your and Tim's point of view.

how can you not see my point? Not all Native Americans spoke the same language. So for people to sit here and say if you want to be technical about it we should all be speaking Native American is ridiculous. Like I said, if that argument was the final say than shouldn't we all be speaking some ancient language like Aramaic or Sumerian? It is a poor argument at best. the Country of the United States was founded and like I said earlier, we should have one common language. I don't care which one it is, as long as it is one language that everyone who is a citizen here should know.

I think one very significant factor you fail to acknowledge (another example of our ability to dismiss the non-dominant groups) is that people in this country STILL speak Native languages and we are still in the process of oppressing these languages (hence this whole conversation). Also, many Natives would argue that they were the first people to inhabit these lands. And I don't see how your point about different tribes speaking different languages is relevant. Even if the Natives did force their language onto other peoples as you seem to be suggesting, that still doesn't make it right.

Please explain why we "should" have one single language. Plenty of other nations thrive just fine while still accepting the various languages of their citizens. I might even argue that they thrive in part because of this. I don't understand how you, being so adamant about the government not interfering in our lives or infringing upon our rights, can believe the government should be able to dictate the language people speak, which is a core component of identity itself.

_

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

So... Does this mean that in order to be "American" you have to abandon all parts of your culture? "YOUR AMERICAN NOW, SON. IN AMERICA WE SPEAK AMERICAN... SO STOP THAT SI' SENOR SHIT... PUT DOWN THE TACO. GRAB A PIECE OF APPLIE PIE, AND BE HAPPY YOU LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE"

Yep - that sure sounds like freedom to me! :roll:

Godfather.

comes a time in everybodys life that ya gotta wonder in the end will any of this matter ?
when we stand before God the language we speak will be understood in his/our hearts and there will be no such thing as racism or hate.


Godfather.

Boxes&Books

Godfather. wrote:

comes a time in everybodys life that ya gotta wonder in the end will any of this matter ?
when we stand before God the language we speak will be understood in his/our hearts and there will be no such thing as racism or hate.


Godfather.

Till then - lets just hate each other..... :roll:
that is probably one of the worst post I have ever seen.....

Boxes&Books

scb wrote:

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

So... Does this mean that in order to be "American" you have to abandon all parts of your culture? "YOUR AMERICAN NOW, SON. IN AMERICA WE SPEAK AMERICAN... SO STOP THAT SI' SENOR SHIT... PUT DOWN THE TACO. GRAB A PIECE OF APPLIE PIE, AND BE HAPPY YOU LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE"

Yep - that sure sounds like freedom to me! :roll:

Damn right its freedom! :roll:

_

mikepegg44 wrote:

They aren't visiting. they aren't on vacation. why on earth is it so hard to think that if someone goes to a country to LIVE that they learn the local customs, assimilate a little into the culture and learn the language the majority speak? No one is saying quit being Mexican, or anything else for that matter.

Edit:
In fact if the reverse were to happen and I was to move to France and expect everyone to speak English I would be seen as an A-hole American trying to bully other countries.

Okay, but what about the people who have not COME to this country to live, but who have been here longer than we have? Or just as long? Why on earth is it so hard to think we should "let" them keep their language and culture?

And how can you think you have the right to define the customs, language, and culture of this country as those that match your own? What about all the other customs, languages, and cultures of the other people in this country? WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DEFINE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AMERICAN? (I put that in bold so you wouldn't miss the question.)

Regarding being seen as an American asshole if you moved to someone elses's land and demanded that they speak YOUR language, how can you not see that that's exactly what you ARE doing NOW?? It's not just something our ancestors did. And you are STILL being seen as an asshole because of it.

_

Godfather. wrote:

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

sbc you probably think I'm a freakin redneck asshole.....and some cases you might be right but your concern for everybody and your posts always put a smile on my face,thanks kiddo people like you remind me that there is hope for the future

Godfather.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or what. But, regardless, you won't catch me using the word redneck in a derogatory way, since it refers to someone who has a sunburn from working hard in the fields all day. So, no, I don't think you're a redneck.

actually the term red neck comes from the people that lived and worked in the hills in the coal mines in the late 1800's early 1900's and would wear red scarfs around their necks,rednecks/hillbillys.
but anyway it was not mean't to be derogatory I mean't it.

Godfather.

Well I guess that's a debate for another day. And thank you.

Boxes&Books

scb wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

They aren't visiting. they aren't on vacation. why on earth is it so hard to think that if someone goes to a country to LIVE that they learn the local customs, assimilate a little into the culture and learn the language the majority speak? No one is saying quit being Mexican, or anything else for that matter.

Edit:
In fact if the reverse were to happen and I was to move to France and expect everyone to speak English I would be seen as an A-hole American trying to bully other countries.

Okay, but what about the people who have not COME to this country to live, but who have been here longer than we have? Or just as long? Why on earth is it so hard to think we should "let" them keep their language and culture? WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DEFINE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AMERICAN? (I put that in bold so you wouldn't miss the question.)

And how can you think you have the right to define the customs, language, and culture of this country as those that match your own? What about all the other customs, languages, and cultures of the other people in this country?

Regarding being seen as an American asshole if you moved to someone elses's land and demanded that they speak YOUR language, how can you not see that that's exactly what you ARE doing NOW?? It's not just something our ancestors did. And you are STILL being seen as an asshole because of it.

+1 and +2
damn your good!

_

cajunkiwi wrote:

Though now that I read your comment again, you may be referring to the number of individual countries that speak English - and if I remember right, then English does have the distinction of being spoken in the greatest number of countries (either as a primary language, a secondary language, or a minority language in the trade and tourism industries).

And how many of those countries speak English because of British imperialism? I think, as a nation, we need to ask ourselves whether or not we really want to continue the oppression of our ancestors, which we try so hard to distance ourselves from.

Godfather.

tonifig8 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

comes a time in everybodys life that ya gotta wonder in the end will any of this matter ?
when we stand before God the language we speak will be understood in his/our hearts and there will be no such thing as racism or hate.


Godfather.

Till then - lets just hate each other..... :roll:
that is probably one of the worst post I have ever seen.....

ez bronco,I am far from hating anybody.
a very close family to mine just lost their 7 year old little girl to cancer last night and when I started reading this thread this morning I just wondered if any of this argument really means anything when we stand before God.and besides I'll bet you have read worse post then that..crap I may even have posted it.

Godfather.

Boxes&Books

Godfather. wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

comes a time in everybodys life that ya gotta wonder in the end will any of this matter ?
when we stand before God the language we speak will be understood in his/our hearts and there will be no such thing as racism or hate.


Godfather.

Till then - lets just hate each other..... :roll:
that is probably one of the worst post I have ever seen.....

ez bronco,I am far from hating anybody.
a very close family to mine just lost their 7 year old little girl to cancer last night and when I started reading this thread this morning I just wondered if any of this argument really means anything when we stand before God.and besides I'll bet you have read worse post then that..crap I may even have posted it.

Godfather.

I'm sorry for the loss. I have known families myself with similar situations.

Your right I probably have read worst post, and your right they probably were from you....
just joking....
God Bless