Tim James is a racist

blackredyellow

I have no idea who Tim James is other than this clip, but...

racist? no... politician trying to score easy political points? absolutely...


I could care less if forms have other languages on them... especially detailed things like license exams or medical/legal stuff. Even if you can speak a language pretty well conversationally, you might not be able to understand detailed stuff.

Heck, I've never had a spanish class in my life, but seeing stuff in spanish/english all of the time, I've gotten to the point where I can read something in spanish and get the gist of what it's saying.

dasvidana

I am amazed that so many people in the US are English-only supporters. Our world is so interconnected now and being an English-only country puts us at a great disadvantage economically. Americans won't be able to compete in the world market unless we can communicate with the rest of the world.

_

cincybearcat wrote:

I only speak English...forgot all the french I toke long ago.

Well there's your problem right there.

cincybearcat

scb wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I only speak English...forgot all the french I toke long ago.

Well there's your problem right there.

Hahaha...I wish. I'm clean.

It's a good point about it being a global economy and the USA could fall behind unless we realize that there are more languages than English. It the same with the stupid units of measurement we use...

Anyhow, this is just a side effect at the cluster F that is illegal immigration. It has led some to see others that are different then them as illegal immigrants when that is not always the case. If the USA had actually followed the laws regarding illegal immigration, had the gov't come down hard on companies using illegal labor, had the gov't followed through with deporting illegal immigrants long ago rather than closing their eyes we'd have a better immigration policy and I believe created more tolerance. Maybe I'm just an optimist.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

haffajappa wrote:

I don't get what your ancestry has to do with it though...

I have learned that I have to spell that out for some people (not directed at you personally) so they don't just dismiss my comments because they'll assume that I have a partisan philosophy because maybe I'm Spanish or something. That was all.

mikepegg44

scb wrote:

aerial wrote:

scb wrote:

The thing is, I think just the fact that someone from the U.S. could make the mistake of forgetting that Mexico is part of North America, if only for a minute, is really telling of the underlying egocentrism with which we are raised. We can forget about others because we hold the privilege. Do you think someone in Mexico would ever, even for a minute, forget that the U.S. is part of North America? I don't think so. It's kind of like how we can easily forget to consider the Native Americans (or even African Americans) that live in the U.S., but they can never forget about white people. We see the world as if we're the center of it, and we expect - and force - others to see the world as if we're the center of it too.

who does WE refer to?

Americans, as a group, in the fist example and white Americans, as a group, in the second. Or American and white American society, if you prefer.

(Just the fact that we describe ourselves as "Americans" when there are many other countries in the Americas is indicative of our egocentrism.)

so no black people feel like english should be the language of the united states? You don't seriously think that do you? that only white people from America act like they are the center of the universe? Why differentiate this?

mikepegg44

dasvidana wrote:

I am amazed that so many people in the US are English-only supporters. Our world is so interconnected now and being an English-only country puts us at a great disadvantage economically. Americans won't be able to compete in the world market unless we can communicate with the rest of the world.

American who want to succeed in international business do in fact learn many languages. It ins't that people don't want to learn other languages, it is, at least for me, the desire to cut down on costs that aren't truly necessary. I don't care if the language is mooninite as long as we have one for official documents. I hate having 10 copies of the same form in my office for every form I need filled out. This guys wants english, that is his choice, I am sure some would love spanish, I don't care as long as there is only one.

and to the sorry old argument of well then everyone should be speaking Native American blah blah blah... That shit is old and tired. It is a terrible argument. Fucking Aramaic for everyone.

_

mikepegg44 wrote:

so no black people feel like english should be the language of the united states? You don't seriously think that do you?

:? Why would you think I think that? I didn't say anything like that.

mikepegg44 wrote:

that only white people from America act like they are the center of the universe? Why differentiate this?

It was two separate examples used as an analogy. For one thing, I am not talking about people as individuals and I've tried to be clear about that. I'm talking about the power dynamic within our social structure. And, no, I never said only white people from American act like they're the center of the universe.

I said that, generally speaking, when Americans as a group think of North America we are able to forget about the existence of Mexico because we were lucky enough to be born into the dominant nation. Mexicans are not able to do that because they are not the dominant country.

And as a separate analogous example because I thought this would help people better understand what I meant, I said that within the power structure of US society, white people similarly have the privilege of being born into the dominant group, allowing us to see our own culture as normative and be oblivious to groups outside our cultural norms. People of color are not able to do this because, at the national level, their groups are not dominant.

haffajappa

Johnny Sitar wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

I don't get what your ancestry has to do with it though...

I have learned that I have to spell that out for some people (not directed at you personally) so they don't just dismiss my comments because they'll assume that I have a partisan philosophy because maybe I'm Spanish or something. That was all.

Ahh gotcha.
Well in that case if my views seemed too prejudiced against immigrants i'm English/Welsh/Scottish/Italian/Japanese... lol

Godfather.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=related

I agree with Tim James, how on earth do think that has anything to do racism ?.....great another race card. :roll:

Godfather.

haffajappa

blackredyellow wrote:

I could care less if forms have other languages on them... especially detailed things like license exams or medical/legal stuff. Even if you can speak a language pretty well conversationally, you might not be able to understand detailed stuff.

This is a great point. My dad can have a pretty good conversation in English (granted, he makes grammatical errors, but thats expected). However when he had to fill out some forms for his PR Card (which are only offered in French or English btw) I had to help him. Sometimes the writing is too formal or isn't used in daily conversation.

_

mikepegg44 wrote:

dasvidana wrote:

I am amazed that so many people in the US are English-only supporters. Our world is so interconnected now and being an English-only country puts us at a great disadvantage economically. Americans won't be able to compete in the world market unless we can communicate with the rest of the world.

American who want to succeed in international business do in fact learn many languages. It ins't that people don't want to learn other languages, it is, at least for me, the desire to cut down on costs that aren't truly necessary. I don't care if the language is mooninite as long as we have one for official documents. I hate having 10 copies of the same form in my office for every form I need filled out. This guys wants english, that is his choice, I am sure some would love spanish, I don't care as long as there is only one.

and to the sorry old argument of well then everyone should be speaking Native American blah blah blah... That shit is old and tired. It is a terrible argument. Fucking Aramaic for everyone.

It's true that many Americans learn other languages. But this is not encouraged from youth like it should be for people to have the best chance of learning. And it's not like we're neutral about the subject; the disdain for other languages plays itself out with funding cuts for langauge programs, etc.

How exactly is it a terrible argument to say that, if we follow the same logic as the English-only supporters, our ancestors and forefathers should all have learned the languages that were native to this land when they got here?

_

haffajappa wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

I could care less if forms have other languages on them... especially detailed things like license exams or medical/legal stuff. Even if you can speak a language pretty well conversationally, you might not be able to understand detailed stuff.

This is a great point. My dad can have a pretty good conversation in English (granted, he makes grammatical errors, but thats expected). However when he had to fill out some forms for his PR Card (which are only offered in French or English btw) I had to help him. Sometimes the writing is too formal or isn't used in daily conversation.

It's the same in medicine. Even non-native English speaker who can carry on a conversation in English are often not able to understand complicated medical terminology and concepts in English. And it really is in everyone's best interest to do whatever we can to make sure they understand.

EDIT TO ADD: If more of our brochures, forms, instruction sheets, etc. were in their language we wouldn't have to spend all the time and MONEY it takes to speak through interpreters.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Godfather. wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=related

I agree with Tim James, how on earth do think that has anything to do racism ?.....great another race card. :roll:

Godfather.

I have answered this previously. Read. And how on earth do you think it doesn't? :roll:

Hugh Freaking Dillon

mikepegg44 wrote:

and to the sorry old argument of well then everyone should be speaking Native American blah blah blah... That shit is old and tired. It is a terrible argument. Fucking Aramaic for everyone.

if you really believe this, then this WHOLE argument is moot. Including your and Tim's point of view.

WaveCameCrashin

scb wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

+1

It's simply a case of people not wanting to change because of entitlement and looking at things on the other foot. Pathetic... and it comes out in measures of racism, hatred, jingoism and ignorance.

I agree, and it's sad. Not just for the victims of our sense of entitlement, but also for us and our children, who are missing out on a whole world of rich language, culture, and experiences. Shouldn't we WANT to learn other languages? :?

Both of you have a very strange way of looking at this IMO. and I don't get it. What language should we speak then? Should we speak a different language every day of the week ?
How about the choice if one wants to learn another language or not ? . It has nothing to with entitlement ,racism, or haterd for other cultures. :roll: Some people just don't see the need to and they have every right if they want to or not. Here in America we speak english and I don't see what the big deal is. If we lived in Germany we would speak German would we not? Isn't english spoken in more places than any other language in the world.

As far as children missing out... I don't know where you went to High school but the school I attended we had to take French or Spanish in order to graduate.

But for what it's worth I would love to learn a second language,3rd,or 4th, But Im just lazy :oops: . I would really like to learn italian.

Godfather.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=related

I agree with Tim James, how on earth do think that has anything to do racism ?.....great another race card. :roll:

Godfather.

I have answered this previously. Read. And how on earth do you think it doesn't? :roll:

this is America not mexico germany japan or any place else, our language is and has been english,part of the deal of becoming an American citizen is learning the American language isn't it ?

Godfather.

_

prfctlefts wrote:

Both of you have a very strange way of looking at this IMO. and I don't get it. What language should we speak then? Should we speak a different language every day of the week ?
How about the choice if one wants to learn another language or not ? . It has nothing to with entitlement ,racism, or haterd for other cultures. :roll: Some people just don't see the need to and they have every right if they want to or not. Here in America we speak english and I don't see what the big deal is. If we lived in Germany we would speak German would we not? Isn't english spoken in more places than any other language in the world.

As far as children missing out... I don't know where you went to High school but the school I attended we had to take French or Spanish in order to graduate.

But for what it's worth I would love to learn a second language,3rd,or 4th, But Im just lazy :oops: . I would really like to learn italian.

I'm not entirely sure I'm following all of your post. I think we should speak whatever language we speak, and that it's a great idea to learn other languages as well. I'm not really saying anyone should be forced to learn/speak another language. But I do think failing to teach our children to be multilingual when they're young limits their choices. Yes, I took Spanish in high school. But by then it was much harder to learn and kind of a joke requirement. Kids, on the other hand, are like sponges and soak up these things much more easily and willingly. I have tried more than once to learn Spanish and I totally suck at it. I really think I would have been able to learn it at a younger age though, and I'm sad that I didn't have the opportunity to learn it then.

As for the entitlement bit, I think that's in reference to the notion that everyone in the US speaks English (though they don't), this is our national language (though it's not), and there should be little tolerance for people whose primary language is not English. When I say I think we should speak whatever language we speak, that goes for people whose language is not English too.

_

Godfather. wrote:

this is America not mexico germany japan or any place else, our language is and has been english,part of the deal of becoming an American citizen is learning the American language isn't it ?

Godfather.

Where is it written that our national language is English? Even if learning English is a requirement for citizenship, what about all the legal residents who don't have that requirement? And does your sentiment go for New Mexico too?

Godfather.

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this is America not mexico germany japan or any place else, our language is and has been english,part of the deal of becoming an American citizen is learning the American language isn't it ?

Godfather.

Where is it written that our national language is English? Even if learning English is a requirement for citizenship, what about all the legal residents who don't have that requirement? And does your sentiment go for New Mexico too?

:crazy: are you a old hippy or a new re-born hippy....anti establishment type of hippy ? and hell yes that goes for NM also.

Godfather.