Tim James is a racist

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Godfather. wrote:

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this is America not mexico germany japan or any place else, our language is and has been english,part of the deal of becoming an American citizen is learning the American language isn't it ?

Godfather.

Where is it written that our national language is English? Even if learning English is a requirement for citizenship, what about all the legal residents who don't have that requirement? And does your sentiment go for New Mexico too?

:crazy: are you a old hippy or a new re-born hippy....anti establishment type of hippy ? and hell yes that goes for NM also.

Godfather.

Would you mind answering my other questions, please? And why should people in New MEXICO, whose families have lived here on the same land and spoken the same language (Spanish) for generations, since this land WAS Mexico, be forced to speak English or forbidden from flying Mexican (or even Spanish) flags?

Godfather.

sbc you probably think I'm a freakin redneck asshole.....and some cases you might be right but your concern for everybody and your posts always put a smile on my face,thanks kiddo people like you remind me that there is hope for the future

Godfather.

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Godfather. wrote:

sbc you probably think I'm a freakin redneck asshole.....and some cases you might be right but your concern for everybody and your posts always put a smile on my face,thanks kiddo people like you remind me that there is hope for the future

Godfather.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or what. But, regardless, you won't catch me using the word redneck in a derogatory way, since it refers to someone who has a sunburn from working hard in the fields all day. So, no, I don't think you're a redneck.

youngster

scb wrote:

Would you mind answering my other questions, please? And why should people in New MEXICO, whose families have lived here on the same land and spoken the same language (Spanish) for generations, since this land WAS Mexico, be forced to speak English or forbidden from flying Mexican (or even Spanish) flags?

Should you be paid in pesos? Exempt from federal $$ for roads and bridges? Sing the Mexican national anthem at sporting events?

If you think so, write your Senators and Congressman and ask to secede from the union and become part of the Mexican government. My guess is you have a better life in the US than you would if NM was part of Mexico.

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youngster wrote:

scb wrote:

Would you mind answering my other questions, please? And why should people in New MEXICO, whose families have lived here on the same land and spoken the same language (Spanish) for generations, since this land WAS Mexico, be forced to speak English or forbidden from flying Mexican (or even Spanish) flags?

Should you be paid in pesos? Exempt from federal $$ for roads and bridges? Sing the Mexican national anthem at sporting events?

If you think so, write your Senators and Congressman and ask to secede from the union and become part of the Mexican government. My guess is you have a better life in the US than you would if NM was part of Mexico.

No, I don't think and have never said we SHOULD do any of those things, including speak Spanish. My point is that other cultures should be RESPECTED. It doesn't have to be my way - and my language - or the highway. Not everyone has to be like the people who came here from Europe and their descendants. If a community wants to trade in pesos or pounds or pigs ears, I don't care. And if a group of people wants to sing the Mexican national anthem at their sporting events, then let them. And if a little old lady on the reservation still speaks Navajo, leave her the fuck alone.

AND print the damn hospital forms in Navajo! Be practical. We print many of our medical brochures and forms in Navajo around here, but not the ones pertaining to pregnancy. Know why? Because we know that the Navajo women who are young enough to be pregnant all speak English, so there's no need. But where there's a need, fill it.

My post was in response to Godfather saying our language is and has been English. My point was that, especially in some places, it's NOT just English and in fact it really hasn't been English for very long.

I also think everyone needs to respect the oppression that is still very much a part of the collective memory around here. Plenty of people not much older than my parents were beaten in school for speaking the language of their people. And, consequently, their languages were all but lost in many families and tribes. The forcing of one language onto other cultures is one of many forms of oppression. I just think the people around here have been oppressed enough.

FiveB247x

My point is your entire notion of "here in america we speak english" has no real rhyme or reason other than colonization. We do not have an official "national language" but english is the primary language because the majority of people speak it. I highly doubt you or most others would say we should speak spanish and make that primary or official language if at some point in the future, spanish speaking citizens were the majority - correct? So this obvious observation means "here in america we speak english" really means because it's how it used to be and we want to keep it that way. That's what you call entitlement.

Also, here's a generic list of languages throughout the world by speakers of 100 million or more. English is listed 3rd and one of the primary reasons English is spoken so much throughout the world and we now see Mandarin Chinese 1st is because of money and business - nothing else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers#100_million_and_more_speakers

prfctlefts wrote:

Both of you have a very strange way of looking at this IMO. and I don't get it. What language should we speak then? Should we speak a different language every day of the week ?
How about the choice if one wants to learn another language or not ? . It has nothing to with entitlement ,racism, or haterd for other cultures. :roll: Some people just don't see the need to and they have every right if they want to or not. Here in America we speak english and I don't see what the big deal is. If we lived in Germany we would speak German would we not? Isn't english spoken in more places than any other language in the world.

As far as children missing out... I don't know where you went to High school but the school I attended we had to take French or Spanish in order to graduate.

But for what it's worth I would love to learn a second language,3rd,or 4th, But Im just lazy :oops: . I would really like to learn italian.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Godfather. wrote:

this is America not mexico germany japan or any place else, our language is and has been english,part of the deal of becoming an American citizen is learning the American language isn't it ?

Godfather.

last I checked there was no such thing as an "American language". how typical.

KDH12

I like that forms are written in Spanish I read that side and try to learn more and test my knowledge

and to the person who commented on being paid in pesos....

you now that there are none USD currencies in our country right?.... for example in IL we have Illinois trade dollars, and if I wasn't so tired I would do research on some NPR stories that talk about how more and more communities are creating their own currency to promote local trade and commerce... I know apples and oranges but still interesting to think about..... it does not have to be "black and white"


and where does the "this is our country and do as we say" attitude come from?

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KDH12 wrote:

I like that forms are written in Spanish I read that side and try to learn more and test my knowledge

and to the person who commented on being paid in pesos....

you now that there are none USD currencies in our country right?.... for example in IL we have Illinois trade dollars, and if I wasn't so tired I would do research on some NPR stories that talk about how more and more communities are creating their own currency to promote local trade and commerce... I know apples and oranges but still interesting to think about..... it does not have to be "black and white"

I didn't know that. Thanks. And I don't really think it's apples & oranges.

KDH12 wrote:

and where does the "this our country do was we say" attitude come from?

I find this particularly peculiar in light of the fact that so many us who also lay claim to this country disagree with what is being said. (Of course, I guess we should just get the fuck out. :roll: )

WaveCameCrashin

What does speaking english and wanting immigrants to learn english have to do with it being an Entitlement ? The united states was made a nation by english speaking people. Every immigrant who has ever come to America, learned the english language because they know they have to in order to succed IMO.
If Americans started living in Mexico or Iran, would it be fair for us to demand that everyone else speak english? They’d laugh at us, and I don’t see how the situation is any different for Mexicans coming to the States.My experience for the most part with Mexicans is that they are a friendly,christian and hard-working people.I don't get why people think it's some big deal or even think it's racism that people should learn english if they want to live here. If any one who comes to this country and wants to be succesful in other words doesn't want to be just a dish washer or a day laborer they are going to have to learn english.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

K, I watched that video again. It disgusts me as much as it did the first time. "this is Alabama. We speak English.". How is that not a completely ignorant and racist statement? It's exclusive of any other culture living in Alabama. He's saying any and all other language is irrelevant. "Maybe it's the business man in me.......we'll save money". How much money is actually going to be saved by testing driver's licences in only English that couldn't have been paid for by this ridiculous ad.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

prfctlefts wrote:

If Americans started living in Mexico or Iran, would it be fair for us to demand that everyone else speak english? They’d laugh at us, .

I think it's interesting that you think that's funny, because that's exactly what happened in America when the Europeans came over here. In Canada too. Up here in Canada, the Native population in schools were beaten if they spoke in their native tongue in class. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious.

WaveCameCrashin

Johnny Sitar wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

If Americans started living in Mexico or Iran, would it be fair for us to demand that everyone else speak english? They’d laugh at us, .

I think it's interesting that you think that's funny, because that's exactly what happened in America when the Europeans came over here. In Canada too. Up here in Canada, the Native population in schools were beaten if they spoke in their native tongue in class. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious.

:roll: so Like I have any control what happened hundreds of years ago. grow the fuck up dude.I don't want anybody to be beaten up or any violence for that matter.Nor do I think it's funny. I was only making an analogy.

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Johnny Sitar wrote:

Up here in Canada, the Native population in schools were beaten if they spoke in their native tongue in class. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious.

As I tried to point out earlier, that happened here too. :(

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prfctlefts wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

I think it's interesting that you think that's funny, because that's exactly what happened in America when the Europeans came over here. In Canada too. Up here in Canada, the Native population in schools were beaten if they spoke in their native tongue in class. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious.

:roll: so Like I have any control what happened hundreds of years ago. grow the fuck up dude.I don't want anybody to be beaten up or any violence for that matter.Nor do I think it's funny. I was only making an analogy.

I don't know Canadian history, but this happened here in the United States as recently as a couple of generations ago. There are many people living now who experienced this. So we're not just talking about hundreds of years ago. And, while you don't have control over what happened hundreds of years ago or 50 years ago, you do have control over how you react to it, whether you are respectful or dismissive, and whether or not you hold on to (and encourage others to hold on to) the sentiment that these beatings were born of. The underlying attitude is the same; only the legal methods of enforcement have changed.

I'll repeat what I said earlier this evening because it's totally relevant here:

I think everyone needs to respect the oppression that is still very much a part of the collective memory around here. Plenty of people not much older than my parents were beaten in school for speaking the language of their people. And, consequently, their languages were all but lost in many families and tribes. The forcing of one language onto other cultures is one of many forms of oppression. I just think the people around here have been oppressed enough.

haffajappa

Johnny Sitar wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

If Americans started living in Mexico or Iran, would it be fair for us to demand that everyone else speak english? They’d laugh at us, .

I think it's interesting that you think that's funny, because that's exactly what happened in America when the Europeans came over here. In Canada too. Up here in Canada, the Native population in schools were beaten if they spoke in their native tongue in class. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious.

not to mention their cultures and spiritual beliefs stripped from them.
nothing like some good ol' residential schools to separate children from their elders, and break the cultural bond between generations.

OutOfBreath

The point here seems to be that the US has always spoken english, and therefore always should continue to do so. First of all, there have always been a large minority of spanish-speaking people in the US. Always. That's what warring with Mexico and Spain got you, after all. And when that minority is starting to get larger, well, it's damn reasonable that official documents etc are printed in the preferred language spoken by say 30% of the people. The US is at least billingual, especially in many southern states, and official language should reflect that. That would mean 2 official languages.

For comparison, Norway with 4m people have 3 official languages. Two different forms of Norwegian(!), plus Sami which is spoken by the natives in the north. Most of our forms and such are also available in English (and recently Polish, since we get workers from there now). I dont think it's hard for the US to maintain 2.

Peace
Dan

GTFLYGIRL

youngster wrote:

scb wrote:

Would you mind answering my other questions, please? And why should people in New MEXICO, whose families have lived here on the same land and spoken the same language (Spanish) for generations, since this land WAS Mexico, be forced to speak English or forbidden from flying Mexican (or even Spanish) flags?

Should you be paid in pesos? Exempt from federal $$ for roads and bridges? Sing the Mexican national anthem at sporting events?

If you think so, write your Senators and Congressman and ask to secede from the union and become part of the Mexican government. My guess is you have a better life in the US than you would if NM was part of Mexico.

So... Does this mean that in order to be "American" you have to abandon all parts of your culture? "YOUR AMERICAN NOW, SON. IN AMERICA WE SPEAK AMERICAN... SO STOP THAT SI' SENOR SHIT... PUT DOWN THE TACO. GRAB A PIECE OF APPLIE PIE, AND BE HAPPY YOU LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE"

Hugh Freaking Dillon

prfctlefts wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

If Americans started living in Mexico or Iran, would it be fair for us to demand that everyone else speak english? They’d laugh at us, .

I think it's interesting that you think that's funny, because that's exactly what happened in America when the Europeans came over here. In Canada too. Up here in Canada, the Native population in schools were beaten if they spoke in their native tongue in class. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious.

:roll: so Like I have any control what happened hundreds of years ago. grow the fuck up dude.I don't want anybody to be beaten up or any violence for that matter.Nor do I think it's funny. I was only making an analogy.

"grow the fuck up dude". How nice. Yes, you made an analogy. I pointed out the flaws in said analogy. I don't think your immature personal attack was necessary, do you?

And I fail to see the relevance of you not having control over history.

dasvidana

One thing that bothers me from the "English required here" mindset is that there are many ways to "speak" English. How about America sign language or braille? Isn't that "speaking" English? Also, depending on where you are from, English words have different meanings. Go to Australia from the US and you'll notice that some words, while still English, don't mean the same thing. Also, even some people in the US speak English but have a dialect, making it difficult to interpret. We need to grow up as a country and be prepared to embrace those in our communities who communicate in various ways.