i will file this statement under the continued pussification of america.
perhaps in band, we should elimate the first/second chair so that we don't make the second chair feel bad.
there is nothing wrong with competition and having a winner and loser. yes you can say to the loser, you tried your best, you competed hard, but that guy was just a little better than you today.
THAT....made me laugh!
and i thank you!
seriously, i have seen first hand with former students just how lame it is to have trophies for everyone, everybody feel good, etc. being part of a TEAM, it ALL should foster 'feel-good' feelings, and i am sure that during practices, before/during/after games.....all the warm-fuzzy stuff does happen, win or lose. but yea....there is a winner, and a loser. is it wrong for there to be a winner in a spelling bee? i mean, cmon! hahaha. is it wrong for a top performer to get accolades? no. so there is competition in oh so many things. that's life. if anything, you better prepare children for reality, b/c in reality, not everyone is a winner, gets everything they want, things aren't handed to most on a silver platter, etc. life ain't fair...it is what it is.
and just to be clear, i have ZERO interest in sports. i've been interested and passionate about the arts my entire life. however, i see value in it ALL. it's not all or nothing. hell, not that i use pj as role models, not at all ...but here you have this group of men, crazy-talented, amazing artists....and almost ALL of em love sports in some form or another. nothing wrong with being a well-balanced individual. :thumbup:
i guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree here. ultimately i am not gonna convince anyone to my point of view, and no one here is going to make me buy season tickets for a football team. whatever you all feel, in terms of that desire for competition, to be better than others, i dont feel it. i just dont. i do feel a desire to leave my town, to not be one of "them", to make something of my life, to prove to myself and my detractors that i am the special and important person i know i am. Maybe thats similar, but this desire for competition, to win, i dont feel and never have. even when i played sports. i played, baseball, soccer and basketball, and some golf.
ultimately, i dont think telling kids winning is the goal, is good. if you have kids, are you really going to tell them, "we want you to win", no i think thats the last thing you tell a kid, and i personally would question a parents parenting skills if that was the case. mastering a skill, having fun, making friends, those are good things and they can be acheived on a diamond, or on turf, on a court, or in general, in life. thats whats important to me. Coming in 2nd at a track meet in high school or college really is meaningless in life, but bettering yourself, running a personal best, bettering myself as an athlete that to me seems something that one can be proud of for years.
i have no desire right now to compete with anyone. to beat anyone. i am just out to live my life the way my heart tells me to.
How does one master a skill without some form of measure? You can't even consider yourself 'good' at something unless you are comparing your skillset to another...which, in essence, is competition. Why would you care about a personal best? Is that not competing with yourself? And if so...why not compete with others? Any athlete will tell you that is the best way to reach a new personal best - you push yourself much harder when competing with others (specifically, those who are more skilled than yourself).
You're right that parents should not teach their kids that winning is everything...if the kid has potential to make a career of sports, that's when the rules change. Unfortunately, WAY too many parents begin to push way too hard at that point, rather than letting it be something the kid enjoys and chooses to try and continue to improve and excel. But yes...if you want to become an elite athlete and be compensated as such, you need to compete and dedicate yourself to being a winner. A real winner, not an everyone winner. Same thing with elite professionals in any field.
As usual, I appreciate your idealism and agree with you in theory, on some levels...in practice tho, they are impractical and unworkable.
As usual, I appreciate your idealism and agree with you in theory, on some levels...in practice tho, they are impractical and unworkable.
absolutely.
and from the first post:
in general sports is a distraction from whats important in life. and we all need distractions. i indulge in silly or frivolous things as well. but whereas going to see a movie as escapism has some redeeming qualities to it, i fail to see the societal importance of football for example. there was that spot on onion satire years ago, that went along the lines of "football player will never walk again due to injury, but his team wins".
what exactly IS important in life?
i think some serious judging is going on here. a movie as escapism has some redeeming qualities apparently....but being part of a team, working for the collective....exercising.....challenging yourself.....nothing redeemable there? please. the best of sport is what is the best of art...of life....of what is 'important' in life. sport is not for everyone, but to entirely dismiss it is well, missing some very important points in life.
i guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree here. ultimately i am not gonna convince anyone to my point of view, and no one here is going to make me buy season tickets for a football team. whatever you all feel, in terms of that desire for competition, to be better than others, i dont feel it. i just dont. i do feel a desire to leave my town, to not be one of "them", to make something of my life, to prove to myself and my detractors that i am the special and important person i know i am. Maybe thats similar, but this desire for competition, to win, i dont feel and never have. even when i played sports. i played, baseball, soccer and basketball, and some golf.
ultimately, i dont think telling kids winning is the goal, is good. if you have kids, are you really going to tell them, "we want you to win", no i think thats the last thing you tell a kid, and i personally would question a parents parenting skills if that was the case. mastering a skill, having fun, making friends, those are good things and they can be acheived on a diamond, or on turf, on a court, or in general, in life. thats whats important to me. Coming in 2nd at a track meet in high school or college really is meaningless in life, but bettering yourself, running a personal best, bettering myself as an athlete that to me seems something that one can be proud of for years.
i have no desire right now to compete with anyone. to beat anyone. i am just out to live my life the way my heart tells me to.
How does one master a skill without some form of measure? You can't even consider yourself 'good' at something unless you are comparing your skillset to another...which, in essence, is competition. Why would you care about a personal best? Is that not competing with yourself? And if so...why not compete with others? Any athlete will tell you that is the best way to reach a new personal best - you push yourself much harder when competing with others (specifically, those who are more skilled than yourself).
You're right that parents should not teach their kids that winning is everything...if the kid has potential to make a career of sports, that's when the rules change. Unfortunately, WAY too many parents begin to push way too hard at that point, rather than letting it be something the kid enjoys and chooses to try and continue to improve and excel. But yes...if you want to become an elite athlete and be compensated as such, you need to compete and dedicate yourself to being a winner. A real winner, not an everyone winner. Same thing with elite professionals in any field.
As usual, I appreciate your idealism and agree with you in theory, on some levels...in practice tho, they are impractical and unworkable.
I played sports and competed on an almost daily basis whether it was in the backyard, pick-up games with friends or in school until I got too drunk and lazy to do much of anything.
My motto is if you're keeping score I want to win. That doesn't mean I am a sore loser...it means I always strived to be the best at whatever I was doing. That was very rarely the case, but it sure didn't hurt for me to have the drive to want that. My parents and coaches taught me to respectful of other people and, yeah, that included the folks I was competing against. Competition in sports is a healthy thing from where I stand.
I ran track junior high through high school and I remember the thrill I had when I finally ran a sub- five minute mile and a sub- 12 minute two-mile and a sub- 18 minute 5k. It felt good. Thing was that when I achieved each of those personal goals that none of those efforts put me in first place. Third place in the state championship cross country meet was pretty sweet and I am still proud of that to this day. I pushed myself to do better....to be better....beause I had folks around me who were better than I was at one point or another. There were kids who weren't as good as me that tried their damndest to beat me....of course they couldn't though
I don't know...the notion of treating every kid who plays rec league soccer, baseball, tiddly winks or whatever really bothers me. First of all, kids aren't dumb in a lot of ways and sooner or later they will realize they are being rewarded for something they didn't do. If someone had tried to give me a trophy just for running a race I would have tossed in the garbage can as I walked away.
There is certainly not a thing wrong with a friendly game of baseball or basketball or whatever, but competition...the joy of winning and the sting of losing....can be a very valuable thing in forming the way a kid grows as a person. Sure, sometimes...many times...there are jerk parents who turn the kid into an awful loser and an obnoxious winner, but when its done right it aids the in the formation of well-grounded adults.
The world is not warm and fuzzy. Some kids are good at basketball and some aren't. Some run fast and far and some can't. Some can knock the cover off a baseball and others couldn't get a hit with a tennis racket.
Does that mean, little Johnny should never pick up a ball or run or swing a bat because he's not great at it? Hell no...finding enjoyment in sport of any kind doesn't have to come from winning at all. Sometimes it is just for fun.
Does the fact little Johnny isn't as good as the other kids mean his trophy case isn't going to be very full? It certainly should....I never wanted anything I didn't earn and I think making a kid feel like he is fine getting by on a subpar effort is just as dangerous as teaching a kid that winning at all costs is the way to be.
All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
Sports - you like 'em or you don't...there's nothing wrong with not liking sports and there really isn't that much to look into if you don't.
They're great for speculation, and as said before they do provide life lessons, learning experiences and a good change of character when participating. But surely they aren't the only thing in life that does that.
So you don't like sports, or you don't "get them"...there's not much to get though. Carry on.
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
missed the last 3 or 4 threads...has the OP explained why he only has disdain for the american sports scene yet?
Not at all. All I can understand is that he does not like the concept of winning or competition.
The concept of winning or competition is EVERYWHERE. If one doesn't like it, don't compete.
We all compete when going for a job interview...
How odd would a job interview be if there was no winner. "Well, we don't like the concept of winning or competition, so were going to all give you the same job. It's now up to you to work out the kinks."
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
seems so meaningless to me. say your hometown basketball team, college team win the ncaa championship, or say, your favorite baseball teams wins the world series. if you arent on the team, and dont have family on the team, how does it really impact your life, at all? What meaning does it have? i have heard the argument that sports brings people together, that it gives people something to discuss, but it seems to me, we all could discuss more pressing issues, than the nfl draft or who is injured on the lakers or whatever
Well sure, but it interests people. Just like many things interest you that potentially bore other people.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just because you find it interesting doesn't make it worthless. Somebody could just as easily have "sportsismylife" as their handle.
If someone came to you about music the same way you are doing so about sports, what would you say?
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
Just another reason hipsters suck ..anyway, haven't you ever seen 'Field of Dreams' or 'Bull Durham?' Baseball is a religion..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Sports - you like 'em or you don't...there's nothing wrong with not liking sports and there really isn't that much to look into if you don't.
They're great for speculation, and as said before they do provide life lessons, learning experiences and a good change of character when participating. But surely they aren't the only thing in life that does that.
So you don't like sports, or you don't "get them"...there's not much to get though. Carry on.
awww dc, where's the fun in that?
(you're right of course)
wow dc, i just read all your posts....EXACTLY.
i tried saying something similar earlier; LIFE is competition. get used to it.
I'm bored so I'll chime in...I am not a very competitive person, never have been but that's just me...I love watching sports and competing in friendly games...I just don't take as seriously as most do...once the end result becomes the focus as opposed to the playing I'm out
And yes there is an obscene amount of money in sports...which also happens to employ a great many people...crazy how that works huh
This thread is ridiculous. Life is all about competition. Someone stole my thunder regarding a job interview. I also agree with the 'pussification of America' line. People are going to win and lose in everything...life included. There are even class rankings in schools, which determine what track your life will go on (what college you go to, what job you get, etc)
I'm in medical sales. I compete every day. Competition fuels my desire to do well (as well as money). I love it. I'm competitive to a fault...I hate losing in anything I do.
i feel bad for those who think a bunch of guys paralyzing each other, and murdering each other as in football, is a source of pleasure, entertainment, joy and civic pride. i gotta say, no wonder our country is such a mess if this is the prevailing attitude.
.
i'm still waiting for the OP to reveal why he has such disdain for only sports in america when equally or more barbaric sports such as rugby, australian rules football, boxing, and mma amongst others exist all over the world. not to mention all the soccer hooligan fans in the stadiums all across europe.
the fact that he hasn't responded just kinda makes me think he has a thing against our country as well as sports in general...
i feel bad for those who think a bunch of guys paralyzing each other, and murdering each other as in football, is a source of pleasure, entertainment, joy and civic pride. i gotta say, no wonder our country is such a mess if this is the prevailing attitude.
.
i'm still waiting for the OP to reveal why he has such disdain for only sports in america when equally or more barbaric sports such as rugby, australian rules football, boxing, and mma amongst others exist all over the world. not to mention all the soccer hooligan fans in the stadiums all across europe.
the fact that he hasn't responded just kinda makes me think he has a thing against our country as well as sports in general...
Not to mention, I heard in Europe, football (soccer) stadiums have to be built to withstand tornandos since the fans are so violent. Someone commented on how US stadiums could easily be blown away.
The US is very tame when it comes to sports compared to much of the world.
Comments
THAT....made me laugh!
and i thank you!
seriously, i have seen first hand with former students just how lame it is to have trophies for everyone, everybody feel good, etc. being part of a TEAM, it ALL should foster 'feel-good' feelings, and i am sure that during practices, before/during/after games.....all the warm-fuzzy stuff does happen, win or lose. but yea....there is a winner, and a loser. is it wrong for there to be a winner in a spelling bee? i mean, cmon! hahaha. is it wrong for a top performer to get accolades? no. so there is competition in oh so many things. that's life. if anything, you better prepare children for reality, b/c in reality, not everyone is a winner, gets everything they want, things aren't handed to most on a silver platter, etc. life ain't fair...it is what it is.
and just to be clear, i have ZERO interest in sports. i've been interested and passionate about the arts my entire life. however, i see value in it ALL. it's not all or nothing. hell, not that i use pj as role models, not at all
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
You're right that parents should not teach their kids that winning is everything...if the kid has potential to make a career of sports, that's when the rules change. Unfortunately, WAY too many parents begin to push way too hard at that point, rather than letting it be something the kid enjoys and chooses to try and continue to improve and excel. But yes...if you want to become an elite athlete and be compensated as such, you need to compete and dedicate yourself to being a winner. A real winner, not an everyone winner. Same thing with elite professionals in any field.
As usual, I appreciate your idealism and agree with you in theory, on some levels...in practice tho, they are impractical and unworkable.
absolutely.
and from the first post:
what exactly IS important in life?
i think some serious judging is going on here. a movie as escapism has some redeeming qualities apparently....but being part of a team, working for the collective....exercising.....challenging yourself.....nothing redeemable there? please. the best of sport is what is the best of art...of life....of what is 'important' in life. sport is not for everyone, but to entirely dismiss it is well, missing some very important points in life.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
My motto is if you're keeping score I want to win. That doesn't mean I am a sore loser...it means I always strived to be the best at whatever I was doing. That was very rarely the case, but it sure didn't hurt for me to have the drive to want that. My parents and coaches taught me to respectful of other people and, yeah, that included the folks I was competing against. Competition in sports is a healthy thing from where I stand.
I ran track junior high through high school and I remember the thrill I had when I finally ran a sub- five minute mile and a sub- 12 minute two-mile and a sub- 18 minute 5k. It felt good. Thing was that when I achieved each of those personal goals that none of those efforts put me in first place. Third place in the state championship cross country meet was pretty sweet and I am still proud of that to this day. I pushed myself to do better....to be better....beause I had folks around me who were better than I was at one point or another. There were kids who weren't as good as me that tried their damndest to beat me....of course they couldn't though
I don't know...the notion of treating every kid who plays rec league soccer, baseball, tiddly winks or whatever really bothers me. First of all, kids aren't dumb in a lot of ways and sooner or later they will realize they are being rewarded for something they didn't do. If someone had tried to give me a trophy just for running a race I would have tossed in the garbage can as I walked away.
There is certainly not a thing wrong with a friendly game of baseball or basketball or whatever, but competition...the joy of winning and the sting of losing....can be a very valuable thing in forming the way a kid grows as a person. Sure, sometimes...many times...there are jerk parents who turn the kid into an awful loser and an obnoxious winner, but when its done right it aids the in the formation of well-grounded adults.
The world is not warm and fuzzy. Some kids are good at basketball and some aren't. Some run fast and far and some can't. Some can knock the cover off a baseball and others couldn't get a hit with a tennis racket.
Does that mean, little Johnny should never pick up a ball or run or swing a bat because he's not great at it? Hell no...finding enjoyment in sport of any kind doesn't have to come from winning at all. Sometimes it is just for fun.
Does the fact little Johnny isn't as good as the other kids mean his trophy case isn't going to be very full? It certainly should....I never wanted anything I didn't earn and I think making a kid feel like he is fine getting by on a subpar effort is just as dangerous as teaching a kid that winning at all costs is the way to be.
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
They're great for speculation, and as said before they do provide life lessons, learning experiences and a good change of character when participating. But surely they aren't the only thing in life that does that.
So you don't like sports, or you don't "get them"...there's not much to get though. Carry on.
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
The concept of winning or competition is EVERYWHERE. If one doesn't like it, don't compete.
We all compete when going for a job interview...
How odd would a job interview be if there was no winner. "Well, we don't like the concept of winning or competition, so were going to all give you the same job. It's now up to you to work out the kinks."
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
Well sure, but it interests people. Just like many things interest you that potentially bore other people.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just because you find it interesting doesn't make it worthless. Somebody could just as easily have "sportsismylife" as their handle.
If someone came to you about music the same way you are doing so about sports, what would you say?
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
awww dc, where's the fun in that?
(you're right of course)
wow dc, i just read all your posts....EXACTLY.
i tried saying something similar earlier; LIFE is competition. get used to it.
happy weekend!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
And yes there is an obscene amount of money in sports...which also happens to employ a great many people...crazy how that works huh
I'm in medical sales. I compete every day. Competition fuels my desire to do well (as well as money). I love it. I'm competitive to a fault...I hate losing in anything I do.
Football is a religion. Baseball is a love affair.
Duh.
i'm still waiting for the OP to reveal why he has such disdain for only sports in america when equally or more barbaric sports such as rugby, australian rules football, boxing, and mma amongst others exist all over the world. not to mention all the soccer hooligan fans in the stadiums all across europe.
the fact that he hasn't responded just kinda makes me think he has a thing against our country as well as sports in general...
Not to mention, I heard in Europe, football (soccer) stadiums have to be built to withstand tornandos since the fans are so violent. Someone commented on how US stadiums could easily be blown away.
The US is very tame when it comes to sports compared to much of the world.
Hey, but here's a thumbs up for giving it your best effort. :thumbup: