depends on the art/artist. you dont think that if someone like tyler shields a big name photographer, or big name artist like banksy or shepard fairey came to a public place that the place would be packed and the crowd would be insane? its all exposure as i said. i am not aware of a 24 hours art tv channel or radio station. the press for art of any kind is way less than any sports event. how many big name bands started in college? what about colleges doing something to cultivate that?
my question is, is sports really the way schools want to be making most of their money? What about allowing the other sections of the university make some bank, or have access to it?
Art and photography will never pull the same crowds as sports. It is just the way it is. America by nature is a competitve country and loves their sports. I am all about arts and music, i know very little but I am all for supporting it.
I am pretty sure if there was money to be made in a 24 hours art channel or radio station there would be one.
Please give me one reason why making money off sports is a bad thing? Athletics have been part of universities since they were founded. Other sections of the university do have access to that money, especially in a priviate instituation. I don't really get where you are coming from. Arts and Music are supported by schools, so I dont really understand what your problem is. It seems like you either went to the wrong school or just plain have a problem with the world
this is all so true.
i was an art major, an art teacher...am a life-long lover and supporter of the arts, and yet...i realize reality. $$$ gets thrown at sports b/c there is $$$ to be made there, so it's circular. sadly, the same does not hold true for the arts, overall. sure, rock bands, popular movies...they make big $$$...but the VAST majority of artists out there today, don't...and probably never will. sure, make a decent, sometimes even a very good living - depending on your specialty and popularity, but overall...the arts just don't seem to have the same appeal to the masses. that's reality. and so it goes.
and even "big name" artists.....they may draw a crowd when they come out to exhibit/speak/whatever...but NO where near the kind of #s a tv/film celebrity or sports star does. even school plays just don't draw the support and $$$ that school sports do. as with everything, it comes down the $$$. right or wrong, it is what it is.
all i can do, just like you all is talk based on my experiences. its interesting most of you felt i was attacking sports in general, and my rant was a critique on sports culture in general, but in my first post i also, plainly talked about how i enjoyed sports as a kid until i had an intimidating and scary coach and the game turned more into winning than about having a good time.
to me, i am interested in things because of the purity of them. getting into hobbies or whatnot because you expect status or to get rich or to get famous by doing it, seems to me to be a silly thing to do. sports at a certain point in my life, became about that to other people. it was like 2 different worlds. thats my experience. thats why i quit playing basketball, thats why i dont follow sports. if its a sin to think the way i do, so be it.
ultimately winning meant nothing to me. win or lose, if i had fun that was the main thing. i honestly had more fun in practice than at games.
my anger at sports and sports culture is based on my experiences for sure, but also society is essentially a mirror for what i jut described. the pros or college teams play to win. whats the saying play to win or go home. what about merely playing a game, to the best of your abilities and having a fun time. playing the game because you love it. loving the game not because you expect to be jordan or kobe, but loving the game because you love the sound of the ball going through the net, or the feeling of the basketball on your finger tips, or the sensation of shooting a basketball.
if sports was more about joy, and love of the game i would be all gung ho for sports. until that day, i aint gonna be a fan
i am interested in being a writer, an artist, a musician, creative human being, and sure we all have to eat, i would love to be paid for my art, but thats not why i am pursuing it. i pursue it, because as rilke said, "you write because you HAVE TO WRITE. to not write would be like dying". to me, the emphasis in sports is on winning as opposed to the beauty or love of the particular sport.
to me, i am interested in things because of the purity of them. getting into hobbies or whatnot because you expect status or to get rich or to get famous by doing it, seems to me to be a silly thing to do.
ultimately winning meant nothing to me. win or lose, if i had fun that was the main thing. i honestly had more fun in practice than at games.
if sports was more about joy, and love of the game i would be all gung ho for sports.
the same cvan be said of many things, not just sports.
how many pick up a guitar thinking they'll get rich and famous like eric clapton?
or act in the school play and think they'll be rich and famous like susan sarandon or sean penn?
or, like the vast majority of sports fans....and art fans of all media....do so b/c of a love and passion for the sport, the art, the music. it's just what you choose to do, and most importantly, what you choose to see.
for every lame-ass, money-grubbing sports star...there is a lame-ass money grubbing artist. hell, even nobodies can be like that too.
at their core...sports...music.....arts of all media.....is GOOD.
i'm a photographer, my husband a musician, we pursue both out of pure love and passion, and sure, we have day jobs. maybe if we really worked hard and wanted it, we could be rich and famous from our art? maybe. neither of us have any interest, and just do so for our own enjoyment. yet, artists who DO pursue their art AND choose a path to try and make a living, maybe even get famous, maybe even very wealthy....well, i don't begrudge them that.
all i can do, just like you all is talk based on my experiences. its interesting most of you felt i was attacking sports in general, and my rant was a critique on sports culture in general, but in my first post i also, plainly talked about how i enjoyed sports as a kid until i had an intimidating and scary coach and the game turned more into winning than about having a good time.
to me, i am interested in things because of the purity of them. getting into hobbies or whatnot because you expect status or to get rich or to get famous by doing it, seems to me to be a silly thing to do. sports at a certain point in my life, became about that to other people. it was like 2 different worlds. thats my experience. thats why i quit playing basketball, thats why i dont follow sports. if its a sin to think the way i do, so be it.
ultimately winning meant nothing to me. win or lose, if i had fun that was the main thing. i honestly had more fun in practice than at games.
my anger at sports and sports culture is based on my experiences for sure, but also society is essentially a mirror for what i jut described. the pros or college teams play to win. whats the saying play to win or go home. what about merely playing a game, to the best of your abilities and having a fun time. playing the game because you love it. loving the game not because you expect to be jordan or kobe, but loving the game because you love the sound of the ball going through the net, or the feeling of the basketball on your finger tips, or the sensation of shooting a basketball.
if sports was more about joy, and love of the game i would be all gung ho for sports. until that day, i aint gonna be a fan
But at the same time, you dont think a kid in a band is doign it because he wants to be Eddie Vedder or an artist is inspired by some other artist and wants to be like them? Kids play sports because they love the sport and wanting to be your favorite player and hit the game winning home run or buzzer beater just goes along with that the same way the lead singer in some garage band wants to bring the house down like Eddie Vedder.
Sports are competitive, yes you play to have fun, especially as a kid but the goal is to win, right? Parents and coaches go overboard but that is just the nature of the beast.
to me, i am interested in things because of the purity of them. getting into hobbies or whatnot because you expect status or to get rich or to get famous by doing it, seems to me to be a silly thing to do.
ultimately winning meant nothing to me. win or lose, if i had fun that was the main thing. i honestly had more fun in practice than at games.
if sports was more about joy, and love of the game i would be all gung ho for sports.
the same cvan be said of many things, not just sports.
how many pick up a guitar thinking they'll get rich and famous like eric clapton?
or act in the school play and think they'll be rich and famous like susan sarandon or sean penn?
or, like the vast majority of sports fans....and art fans of all media....do so b/c of a love and passion for the sport, the art, the music. it's just what you choose to do, and most importantly, what you choose to see.
for every lame-ass, money-grubbing sports star...there is a lame-ass money grubbing artist. hell, even nobodies can be like that too.
at their core...sports...music.....arts of all media.....is GOOD.
i'm a photographer, my husband a musician, we pursue both out of pure love and passion, and sure, we have day jobs. maybe if we really worked hard and wanted it, we could be rich and famous from our art? maybe. neither of us have any interest, and just do so for our own enjoyment. yet, artists who DO pursue their art AND choose a path to try and make a living, maybe even get famous, maybe even very wealthy....well, i don't begrudge them that.
Sports is about team work and challenging yourself.. skills that are VERY important in our every day lives can be learned on a grassy field.
And just because you are not performing the sport, doesn't mean it can't motivate you and teach you those skills.
The focus is on winning because the challenge is to win. We need to challenge ourselves and look up to people who challenge themselves. It's what drives us. It's no surprise that sports are huge.
Anyone see Rocky? Sports movie, but the lesson taught is hardly related to boxing.
Sports is about team work and challenging yourself.. skills that are VERY important in our every day lives can be learned on a grassy field.
And just because you are not performing the sport, doesn't mean it can't motivate you and teach you those skills.
The focus is on winning because the challenge is to win. We need to challenge ourselves and look up to people who challenge themselves. It's what drives us. It's no surprise that sports are huge.
Anyone see Rocky? Sports movie, but the lesson taught is hardly related to boxing.
grassy field my fat ass... astroturf
btw, i remember being really young and muhammad ali was boxing on tv.
my dad, my uncle, and their friends all got together and drank a bit while watching the heavy weight bout.
it was quite exciting.
oddly enough some years later boxing on tv turned to shit when they started charging folks a pay per view fee.
Sports is about team work and challenging yourself.. skills that are VERY important in our every day lives can be learned on a grassy field.
And just because you are not performing the sport, doesn't mean it can't motivate you and teach you those skills.
The focus is on winning because the challenge is to win. We need to challenge ourselves and look up to people who challenge themselves. It's what drives us. It's no surprise that sports are huge.
Anyone see Rocky? Sports movie, but the lesson taught is hardly related to boxing.
i am sort of with you there on everything except the winning. kids shouldnt be taught the challenge is to win a sport. you dont explain soccor by saying, "the challenge here is to score the most goals" and leave it at that. soccer, all sports are more than just about winning. i dont wish to attack Gob, after all Arrested Development is one of my favorite shows of all time, but in general, your statement is the reason why i dont support or follow or play sports. the goal of sports is winning. you are correct in general, that is certainly what our soceity thinks sports is about. but overall, i'd say sports should be about: challenging yourself personally to become better at a skill when i played basketball i would practice dribbling one day, just dribble the ball, for an hour, the next day i would work on my defense and so on. its about teamwork. that in basketball passing the ball around, looking out for teammaters, setting screens, moving without the ball, thats important, essential even. and that doing your best is all that matters. coming in second or third or last in a tournament shouldnt hurt as much as not trying at all, or not giving your all.
Challenging onesself, is alot different than a desire to win. When winning is the paramount reason for playing sports thats when cheating, steroids, PED's come in to play.
i have never had this drive for competition or to win that people are acting like is so universal in human society. i guess that explains why i am a communist though! honestly, when i played sports i really didnt care if we won or lost. it didnt figure into my mind at all
Sports is about team work and challenging yourself.. skills that are VERY important in our every day lives can be learned on a grassy field.
And just because you are not performing the sport, doesn't mean it can't motivate you and teach you those skills.
The focus is on winning because the challenge is to win. We need to challenge ourselves and look up to people who challenge themselves. It's what drives us. It's no surprise that sports are huge.
Anyone see Rocky? Sports movie, but the lesson taught is hardly related to boxing.
i am sort of with you there on everything except the winning. kids shouldnt be taught the challenge is to win a sport. you dont explain soccor by saying, "the challenge here is to score the most goals" and leave it at that. soccer, all sports are more than just about winning. i dont wish to attack Gob, after all Arrested Development is one of my favorite shows of all time, but in general, your statement is the reason why i dont support or follow or play sports. the goal of sports is winning. you are correct in general, that is certainly what our soceity thinks sports is about. but overall, i'd say sports should be about: challenging yourself personally to become better at a skill when i played basketball i would practice dribbling one day, just dribble the ball, for an hour, the next day i would work on my defense and so on. its about teamwork. that in basketball passing the ball around, looking out for teammaters, setting screens, moving without the ball, thats important, essential even. and that doing your best is all that matters. coming in second or third or last in a tournament shouldnt hurt as much as not trying at all, or not giving your all.
Challenging onesself, is alot different than a desire to win. When winning is the paramount reason for playing sports thats when cheating, steroids, PED's come in to play.
i have never had this drive for competition or to win that people are acting like is so universal in human society. i guess that explains why i am a communist though! honestly, when i played sports i really didnt care if we won or lost. it didnt figure into my mind at all
Point is, you don't have to win to challenge yourself, but the challenge is to win. If you don't have a goal, what's the point?
Rocky lost the fight by the way, but by setting his eyes on the win, he pushed himself farther than thought possible.
Just because you lost, doesn't mean you didn't win, but you need goals. Winning is the goal. Aim for the highest goal, even though you may not obtain it, you still won by trying to win.
i am sort of with you there on everything except the winning. kids shouldnt be taught the challenge is to win a sport. you dont explain soccor by saying, "the challenge here is to score the most goals" and leave it at that. soccer, all sports are more than just about winning. i dont wish to attack Gob, after all Arrested Development is one of my favorite shows of all time, but in general, your statement is the reason why i dont support or follow or play sports. the goal of sports is winning. you are correct in general, that is certainly what our soceity thinks sports is about. but overall, i'd say sports should be about: challenging yourself personally to become better at a skill when i played basketball i would practice dribbling one day, just dribble the ball, for an hour, the next day i would work on my defense and so on. its about teamwork. that in basketball passing the ball around, looking out for teammaters, setting screens, moving without the ball, thats important, essential even. and that doing your best is all that matters. coming in second or third or last in a tournament shouldnt hurt as much as not trying at all, or not giving your all.
Seriously dude? So anything that is competitive and involves keeping score is bad? So you are saying we should have people running around a soccer field with a ball for the fuck of it? Ever play a board game? Thats about winning. How about cards? winning. Fuck, what about a marching band competition? winning. But I bet people have fun doing those things whether they win or lose.
Edit: My conclusion on this entire conversation is that you just dislike anything that declares a winner?
i think though, as it exists now, its outrageously ill balanced. who's to say the university sierra club or photography club couldnt teach kids the same exact lessons a football team could? or a baseball team? maybe teach them different lessons as well, different but important lessons nonetheless?
Nobody pays to watch people take pictures. That's why.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
i am sort of with you there on everything except the winning. kids shouldnt be taught the challenge is to win a sport. you dont explain soccor by saying, "the challenge here is to score the most goals" and leave it at that. soccer, all sports are more than just about winning. i dont wish to attack Gob, after all Arrested Development is one of my favorite shows of all time, but in general, your statement is the reason why i dont support or follow or play sports. the goal of sports is winning. you are correct in general, that is certainly what our soceity thinks sports is about. but overall, i'd say sports should be about: challenging yourself personally to become better at a skill when i played basketball i would practice dribbling one day, just dribble the ball, for an hour, the next day i would work on my defense and so on. its about teamwork. that in basketball passing the ball around, looking out for teammaters, setting screens, moving without the ball, thats important, essential even. and that doing your best is all that matters. coming in second or third or last in a tournament shouldnt hurt as much as not trying at all, or not giving your all.
Seriously dude? So anything that is competitive and involves keeping score is bad? So you are saying we should have people running around a soccer field with a ball for the fuck of it? Ever play a board game? Thats about winning. How about cards? winning. Fuck, what about a marching band competition? winning. But I bet people have fun doing those things whether they win or lose.
i once played pool at a tavern just for kicks until some a-hole wanted to fight.
that's when i broke my pool stick across his teeth.
that is the day i won.
:shock:
Not at all. All I can understand is that he does not like the concept of winning or competition.
thing is tho.....even in the arts, there IS competition. obviously, not on the same level as sports, but it is there. i remember my husband telling me about participating in 'battle of the bands' in HS....there are always competitions for soloists, artists enter competitive exhibitions, etc. competition, in and of itself is not a 'bad' thing at all. and hell, anyone who has been in a serious art class with class critiques, well....whoa....thick skin very necessary at times. life IS competitive, at all levels......every living thing on this planet is in 'competition' for resources and the like. it's reality.
and imo one of the worst things ever done was removing competition from events, sports being a biggie...with everyone getting a trophy and blah blah blah. no, there's no need to teach children to be cut-throat, but it's utterly ridiculous when 'everyone is a winner' BS is in play. even most children think similarly, they know. haha.
thing is, the average person wants to relax, have fun, feel camaraderie and understanding with their sparse few free hours. sports gives that to most people. art, music, etc.....well, it's just not as straight-forward, which is both a good and bad thing, and thus, many just don't *get* it, or have no desire to. besides, outside of concerts or films or performance art...most art is meant to be seen, a lot more passive. b/c even if one just watches sports, there is bonding and cheering. sports are clear cut; specific rules, times, teams....you know how it goes. the arts are much more open ended, and thus require a bit more. and even amongst the arts, what are the most popular? blockbuster movies, pop-music artists, etc. the average joe just wants to relax and have fun most of the time. not everyone of course...but the vast majority, thus why there is 'popular culture.' nothing wrong with that per se, at all.
I bet 100 bucks that someone in this thread never got over the wedgie that they received in high school.
i thought it always sucked when the jocks picked on the nerdy kids. luckily i was never one to be screwed with like that. sure i had my run-ins with bullies but um, that usually ended up being dealt with with an old fashioned knuckle sandwich and or a swift kick to the bully's face.
from my experience, 85% of the athletes where i went to school were assholes. the high school football coach begged me to play football for him and would tell me i could be a college football star. i never did sign up mainly because i didn't get along with the pricks on the football team.
I have no interest in sports unless it's my friends who are competing. And even then it would have to be a really event like the Olympics or something.
i guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree here. ultimately i am not gonna convince anyone to my point of view, and no one here is going to make me buy season tickets for a football team. whatever you all feel, in terms of that desire for competition, to be better than others, i dont feel it. i just dont. i do feel a desire to leave my town, to not be one of "them", to make something of my life, to prove to myself and my detractors that i am the special and important person i know i am. Maybe thats similar, but this desire for competition, to win, i dont feel and never have. even when i played sports. i played, baseball, soccer and basketball, and some golf.
ultimately, i dont think telling kids winning is the goal, is good. if you have kids, are you really going to tell them, "we want you to win", no i think thats the last thing you tell a kid, and i personally would question a parents parenting skills if that was the case. mastering a skill, having fun, making friends, those are good things and they can be acheived on a diamond, or on turf, on a court, or in general, in life. thats whats important to me. Coming in 2nd at a track meet in high school or college really is meaningless in life, but bettering yourself, running a personal best, bettering myself as an athlete that to me seems something that one can be proud of for years.
i have no desire right now to compete with anyone. to beat anyone. i am just out to live my life the way my heart tells me to.
Not at all. All I can understand is that he does not like the concept of winning or competition.
thing is tho.....even in the arts, there IS competition. obviously, not on the same level as sports, but it is there. i remember my husband telling me about participating in 'battle of the bands' in HS....there are always competitions for soloists, artists enter competitive exhibitions, etc. competition, in and of itself is not a 'bad' thing at all. and hell, anyone who has been in a serious art class with class critiques, well....whoa....thick skin very necessary at times. life IS competitive, at all levels......every living thing on this planet is in 'competition' for resources and the like. it's reality.
and imo one of the worst things ever done was removing competition from events, sports being a biggie...with everyone getting a trophy and blah blah blah. no, there's no need to teach children to be cut-throat, but it's utterly ridiculous when 'everyone is a winner' BS is in play. even most children think similarly, they know. haha.
thing is, the average person wants to relax, have fun, feel camaraderie and understanding with their sparse few free hours. sports gives that to most people. art, music, etc.....well, it's just not as straight-forward, which is both a good and bad thing, and thus, many just don't *get* it, or have no desire to. besides, outside of concerts or films or performance art...most art is meant to be seen, a lot more passive. b/c even if one just watches sports, there is bonding and cheering. sports are clear cut; specific rules, times, teams....you know how it goes. the arts are much more open ended, and thus require a bit more. and even amongst the arts, what are the most popular? blockbuster movies, pop-music artists, etc. the average joe just wants to relax and have fun most of the time. not everyone of course...but the vast majority, thus why there is 'popular culture.' nothing wrong with that per se, at all.
everyone should be considered a winner. in my track race analogy, is it only the top 3 runners who deserve praise? Just the winner, the 1st place runner? Doesnt every runner deserve to be congratulated reguardless of their place on a "winners platform"? In my mind everyone deserves praise as long as they give it their all, and go all out. Are we really suggesting kids dont deserve to be praised unless they win or compete? Competeing against onesself seems much more important than competeing against the top runner in the district or whatever.
i will file this statement under the continued pussification of america.
perhaps in band, we should elimate the first/second chair so that we don't make the second chair feel bad.
there is nothing wrong with competition and having a winner and loser. yes you can say to the loser, you tried your best, you competed hard, but that guy was just a little better than you today.
Comments
this is all so true.
i was an art major, an art teacher...am a life-long lover and supporter of the arts, and yet...i realize reality. $$$ gets thrown at sports b/c there is $$$ to be made there, so it's circular. sadly, the same does not hold true for the arts, overall. sure, rock bands, popular movies...they make big $$$...but the VAST majority of artists out there today, don't...and probably never will. sure, make a decent, sometimes even a very good living - depending on your specialty and popularity, but overall...the arts just don't seem to have the same appeal to the masses. that's reality. and so it goes.
and even "big name" artists.....they may draw a crowd when they come out to exhibit/speak/whatever...but NO where near the kind of #s a tv/film celebrity or sports star does. even school plays just don't draw the support and $$$ that school sports do. as with everything, it comes down the $$$. right or wrong, it is what it is.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I enjoy skinny-skiing, going to bullfights on acid...
to me, i am interested in things because of the purity of them. getting into hobbies or whatnot because you expect status or to get rich or to get famous by doing it, seems to me to be a silly thing to do. sports at a certain point in my life, became about that to other people. it was like 2 different worlds. thats my experience. thats why i quit playing basketball, thats why i dont follow sports. if its a sin to think the way i do, so be it.
ultimately winning meant nothing to me. win or lose, if i had fun that was the main thing. i honestly had more fun in practice than at games.
my anger at sports and sports culture is based on my experiences for sure, but also society is essentially a mirror for what i jut described. the pros or college teams play to win. whats the saying play to win or go home. what about merely playing a game, to the best of your abilities and having a fun time. playing the game because you love it. loving the game not because you expect to be jordan or kobe, but loving the game because you love the sound of the ball going through the net, or the feeling of the basketball on your finger tips, or the sensation of shooting a basketball.
if sports was more about joy, and love of the game i would be all gung ho for sports. until that day, i aint gonna be a fan
the same cvan be said of many things, not just sports.
how many pick up a guitar thinking they'll get rich and famous like eric clapton?
or act in the school play and think they'll be rich and famous like susan sarandon or sean penn?
or, like the vast majority of sports fans....and art fans of all media....do so b/c of a love and passion for the sport, the art, the music. it's just what you choose to do, and most importantly, what you choose to see.
for every lame-ass, money-grubbing sports star...there is a lame-ass money grubbing artist. hell, even nobodies can be like that too.
at their core...sports...music.....arts of all media.....is GOOD.
i'm a photographer, my husband a musician, we pursue both out of pure love and passion, and sure, we have day jobs. maybe if we really worked hard and wanted it, we could be rich and famous from our art? maybe. neither of us have any interest, and just do so for our own enjoyment. yet, artists who DO pursue their art AND choose a path to try and make a living, maybe even get famous, maybe even very wealthy....well, i don't begrudge them that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
But at the same time, you dont think a kid in a band is doign it because he wants to be Eddie Vedder or an artist is inspired by some other artist and wants to be like them? Kids play sports because they love the sport and wanting to be your favorite player and hit the game winning home run or buzzer beater just goes along with that the same way the lead singer in some garage band wants to bring the house down like Eddie Vedder.
Sports are competitive, yes you play to have fun, especially as a kid but the goal is to win, right? Parents and coaches go overboard but that is just the nature of the beast.
not at all.
We are on teh same page, haha.
And just because you are not performing the sport, doesn't mean it can't motivate you and teach you those skills.
The focus is on winning because the challenge is to win. We need to challenge ourselves and look up to people who challenge themselves. It's what drives us. It's no surprise that sports are huge.
Anyone see Rocky? Sports movie, but the lesson taught is hardly related to boxing.
grassy field my fat ass... astroturf
btw, i remember being really young and muhammad ali was boxing on tv.
my dad, my uncle, and their friends all got together and drank a bit while watching the heavy weight bout.
it was quite exciting.
oddly enough some years later boxing on tv turned to shit when they started charging folks a pay per view fee.
how about fuck you don king?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i am sort of with you there on everything except the winning. kids shouldnt be taught the challenge is to win a sport. you dont explain soccor by saying, "the challenge here is to score the most goals" and leave it at that. soccer, all sports are more than just about winning. i dont wish to attack Gob, after all Arrested Development is one of my favorite shows of all time, but in general, your statement is the reason why i dont support or follow or play sports. the goal of sports is winning. you are correct in general, that is certainly what our soceity thinks sports is about. but overall, i'd say sports should be about: challenging yourself personally to become better at a skill when i played basketball i would practice dribbling one day, just dribble the ball, for an hour, the next day i would work on my defense and so on. its about teamwork. that in basketball passing the ball around, looking out for teammaters, setting screens, moving without the ball, thats important, essential even. and that doing your best is all that matters. coming in second or third or last in a tournament shouldnt hurt as much as not trying at all, or not giving your all.
Challenging onesself, is alot different than a desire to win. When winning is the paramount reason for playing sports thats when cheating, steroids, PED's come in to play.
i have never had this drive for competition or to win that people are acting like is so universal in human society. i guess that explains why i am a communist though! honestly, when i played sports i really didnt care if we won or lost. it didnt figure into my mind at all
Rocky lost the fight by the way, but by setting his eyes on the win, he pushed himself farther than thought possible.
Just because you lost, doesn't mean you didn't win, but you need goals. Winning is the goal. Aim for the highest goal, even though you may not obtain it, you still won by trying to win.
Seriously dude? So anything that is competitive and involves keeping score is bad? So you are saying we should have people running around a soccer field with a ball for the fuck of it? Ever play a board game? Thats about winning. How about cards? winning. Fuck, what about a marching band competition? winning. But I bet people have fun doing those things whether they win or lose.
Edit: My conclusion on this entire conversation is that you just dislike anything that declares a winner?
i once played pool at a tavern just for kicks until some a-hole wanted to fight.
that's when i broke my pool stick across his teeth.
that is the day i won.
:shock:
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Not at all. All I can understand is that he does not like the concept of winning or competition.
got a hunch he's got a thing against the united states of america too.....
never been to a playboy shoot have you
thing is tho.....even in the arts, there IS competition. obviously, not on the same level as sports, but it is there. i remember my husband telling me about participating in 'battle of the bands' in HS....there are always competitions for soloists, artists enter competitive exhibitions, etc. competition, in and of itself is not a 'bad' thing at all. and hell, anyone who has been in a serious art class with class critiques, well....whoa....thick skin very necessary at times. life IS competitive, at all levels......every living thing on this planet is in 'competition' for resources and the like. it's reality.
and imo one of the worst things ever done was removing competition from events, sports being a biggie...with everyone getting a trophy and blah blah blah. no, there's no need to teach children to be cut-throat, but it's utterly ridiculous when 'everyone is a winner' BS is in play. even most children think similarly, they know. haha.
thing is, the average person wants to relax, have fun, feel camaraderie and understanding with their sparse few free hours. sports gives that to most people. art, music, etc.....well, it's just not as straight-forward, which is both a good and bad thing, and thus, many just don't *get* it, or have no desire to. besides, outside of concerts or films or performance art...most art is meant to be seen, a lot more passive. b/c even if one just watches sports, there is bonding and cheering. sports are clear cut; specific rules, times, teams....you know how it goes. the arts are much more open ended, and thus require a bit more. and even amongst the arts, what are the most popular? blockbuster movies, pop-music artists, etc. the average joe just wants to relax and have fun most of the time. not everyone of course...but the vast majority, thus why there is 'popular culture.' nothing wrong with that per se, at all.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
from my experience, 85% of the athletes where i went to school were assholes. the high school football coach begged me to play football for him and would tell me i could be a college football star. i never did sign up mainly because i didn't get along with the pricks on the football team.
true fact.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
ultimately, i dont think telling kids winning is the goal, is good. if you have kids, are you really going to tell them, "we want you to win", no i think thats the last thing you tell a kid, and i personally would question a parents parenting skills if that was the case. mastering a skill, having fun, making friends, those are good things and they can be acheived on a diamond, or on turf, on a court, or in general, in life. thats whats important to me. Coming in 2nd at a track meet in high school or college really is meaningless in life, but bettering yourself, running a personal best, bettering myself as an athlete that to me seems something that one can be proud of for years.
i have no desire right now to compete with anyone. to beat anyone. i am just out to live my life the way my heart tells me to.
everyone should be considered a winner. in my track race analogy, is it only the top 3 runners who deserve praise? Just the winner, the 1st place runner? Doesnt every runner deserve to be congratulated reguardless of their place on a "winners platform"? In my mind everyone deserves praise as long as they give it their all, and go all out. Are we really suggesting kids dont deserve to be praised unless they win or compete? Competeing against onesself seems much more important than competeing against the top runner in the district or whatever.
i will file this statement under the continued pussification of america.
perhaps in band, we should elimate the first/second chair so that we don't make the second chair feel bad.
there is nothing wrong with competition and having a winner and loser. yes you can say to the loser, you tried your best, you competed hard, but that guy was just a little better than you today.
nothing wrong with losing.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
agreed.
in music, this would be like saying "creed is great cuz they try so hard"
it's statements like this that contribute to our country falling behind others in multiple categories these days... :roll:
self competition....is that like masterbation?