Your absolutely right Record sales dont show anything about how popular and influential a band are.
The Backstreet Boys and Celine Dion have both sold more records than Pearl Jam. How do you feel about that?
See the difference is that I wouldn't care about that, pop music tends to have a larger following than rock music, it's more accessible and less extreme - it's inoffensive (well maybe not Celine Dion, but that's another argument!).
When you consider the relatively abstract nature of say Dark Side Of The Moon, I think it's remarkable that they sold that many copies, but it's clearly an indicator of the enduring appeal, which shouldn't be ignored.
I thought it was bad enough when your were taking wikipedia as gospel, but now you're quoting NME readers polls as being refelctive of the world's musical tastes at large
The Wiki quote I posted showed the results of a poll by Rolling Stone. The NME poll was from readers from both Europe and the U.S. But of course that's not good enough for you.
I feel fine about it. The Backstreet boys and Celine Dion have Im sure inspired lots of groups and artists in the last 15 years or so. The fact that I dont personally like them has no bearing on the fact they have sold records.
And the fact that they've both sold records has had no bearing on the evolution of music at all, just as the fact that Pink Floyd have sold however millions of copies of Dark Side of the Moon does nothing to alter my original point.
The Wiki quote I posted showed the results of a poll by Rolling Stone. The NME poll was from readers from both Europe and the U.S. But of course that's not good enough for you.
Ok so the Clash's London Calling was voted number 8 in the Rolling Stone poll in 2003, way ahead of the Sex Pistols. So clearly you must be wrong. :roll:
Any alternative band of the past 30 years has been influenced, either directly or indirectly by the Sex Pistols and the punk movement.
See I think that since Pink Floyd came first, the Sex Pistols were indirectly influenced by Pink Floyd at the 60's/70's rock movement. Without Pink Floyd making overly technical music, the Sex Pistols would never have had anything to rail against with their more simplified music.
I feel fine about it. The Backstreet boys and Celine Dion have Im sure inspired lots of groups and artists in the last 15 years or so. The fact that I dont personally like them has no bearing on the fact they have sold records.
And the fact that they've both sold records has had no bearing on the evolution of music at all, just as the fact that Pink Floyd have sold however millions of copies of Dark Side of the Moon does nothing to alter my original point.
How has it had no bearing? You dont know that. In 30 years someone may well write a load of reviews on Wiki that site Celine Dion is the most important musician of the 50 years. You cant possibly know what if any influences have been taken from her music.
See I think that since Pink Floyd came first, the Sex Pistols were indirectly influenced by Pink Floyd at the 60's/70's rock movement. Without Pink Floyd making overly technical music, the Sex Pistols would never have had anything to rail against with their more simplified music.
You think Pink Floyd were the only bunch of self-indulgent, Middle-class cunts around at that time?
How has it had no bearing? You dont know that. In 30 years someone may well write a load of reviews on Wiki that site Celine Dion is the most important musician of the 50 years. You cant possibly know what if any influences have been taken from her music.
Well then maybe you know something I don't. Care to enlighten me?
See I think that since Pink Floyd came first, the Sex Pistols were indirectly influenced by Pink Floyd at the 60's/70's rock movement. Without Pink Floyd making overly technical music, the Sex Pistols would never have had anything to rail against with their more simplified music.
You think Pink Floyd were the only bunch of self-indulgent, Middle-class cunts around at that time?
No but I think you may be the only self indulgent idiot around at this time. That was rude. Sorry FacePollution.
See I think that since Pink Floyd came first, the Sex Pistols were indirectly influenced by Pink Floyd at the 60's/70's rock movement. Without Pink Floyd making overly technical music, the Sex Pistols would never have had anything to rail against with their more simplified music.
You think Pink Floyd were the only bunch of self-indulgent, Middle-class cunts around at that time?
The word cunt is so punk. And no, but you have no way of proving that they didn't have an indirect influence.
And please do respond to my previous post about the polls.
I never took any poll as fact. I used it to illustrate a point. The poll I referred to above was just one of many sources that pointed the Pistols importance and legacy.
And I said the Pistols were the Greatest band of the past 50 years. The poll you've posted refers to greatest albums.
How has it had no bearing? You dont know that. In 30 years someone may well write a load of reviews on Wiki that site Celine Dion is the most important musician of the 50 years. You cant possibly know what if any influences have been taken from her music.
Well then maybe you know something I don't. Care to enlighten me?
I dont know either way but you seem to have all the answers. I dont think anyone will evr be able to make you see the point. You are short sighted over this subject and have no interest in taking on other views. We have tried to take on your views but all you come back with is calling a musician or a band a cunt or a fucking dinosaur. Your rude, arogant and a fairly piss poor example of a music fan. Pushing your ideas like your some kind of messiah. Grow up you sad little man.
I never took any poll as fact. I used it to illustrate a point. The poll I referred to above was just one of many sources that pointed the Pistols importance and legacy.
And I said the Pistols were the Greatest band of the past 50 years. The poll you've posted refers to greatest albums.
So the Sex Pisols are "the greatest band of the last 50 years" but they didn't write the best album?
Nobody is disputing that they were important and that they have a legacy - but they are not the only band. Nothing you have provided indicates that they have made any more impact than Pink Floyd.
I dont know either way but you seem to have all the answers. I dont think anyone will evr be able to make you see the point. You are short sighted over this subject and have no interest in taking on other views. We have tried to take on your views but all you come back with is calling a musician or a band a cunt or a fucking dinosaur.
Except the truth is you haven't tried taking on any of my views at all. You've just tried to rubbish the Sex Pistols and shove pink Floyd down my throat. You could have made your point and then agreed to disagree, and maybe started another thread about the alleged merits of Pink Floyd.
Instead you come across all knowing and smug and then act like a baby when you don't get your own way.
Nobody is disputing that they were important and that they have a legacy - but they are not the only band. Nothing you have provided indicates that they have made any more impact than Pink Floyd.
Maybe the mistake I made was in not placing a question mark at the end of that statement in the op.
I dont know either way but you seem to have all the answers. I dont think anyone will evr be able to make you see the point. You are short sighted over this subject and have no interest in taking on other views. We have tried to take on your views but all you come back with is calling a musician or a band a cunt or a fucking dinosaur.
Except the truth is you haven't tried taking on any of my views at all. You've just tried to rubbish the Sex Pistols and shove pink Floyd down my throat. You could have made your point and then agreed to disagree, and maybe started another thread about the alleged merits of Pink Floyd.
Instead you come across all knowing and smug and then act like a baby when you don't get your own way.
But I have tried to take on your views. I have aknowledged that the sex pistols have played some part in changing the direction of where music went. I even said it was a good thing. I didnt say they were dinosaurs or cunts or boring. I gave my personal view of them but still managed to accept they had some relevance. You on the other hand have totally disregarded bands and entire genres of music as being pointless and ahving nio influence what so ever. So what are you talking about?
From a music journalist friend of mine after I asked him for a brief take on this debate:
"Well it's not like the Pistols invented their sound themselves as it was a blatant rip-off of The Stooges, but then again they did pretty much create the image of punk rock as we know it. Yet I can't really see what the point is to compare them to Pink Floyd as they both have influenced entirely different group of artists.
Of course Pink Floyd has sold more records, but how their heritage should be more influential is open to debate: they didn't invent the concept album and they weren't the only ones creating space rock. Maybe Dave Gilmour's guitar sound has influenced some Eighties' guitar sounds but in the end I think all of that comes to less than Pistols' influence on popular culture at a larger scale."
But I have tried to take on your views. I have aknowledged that the sex pistols have played some part in changing the direction of where music went. I even said it was a good thing. I didnt say they were dinosaurs or cunts or boring. I gave my personal view of them but still managed to accept they had some relevance. You on the other hand have totally disregarded bands and entire genres of music as being pointless and ahving nio influence what so ever. So what are you talking about?
This is what you said in your first post in this thread:
But I have tried to take on your views. I have aknowledged that the sex pistols have played some part in changing the direction of where music went. I even said it was a good thing. I didnt say they were dinosaurs or cunts or boring. I gave my personal view of them but still managed to accept they had some relevance. You on the other hand have totally disregarded bands and entire genres of music as being pointless and ahving nio influence what so ever. So what are you talking about?
Nobody is disputing that they were important and that they have a legacy - but they are not the only band. Nothing you have provided indicates that they have made any more impact than Pink Floyd.
Maybe the mistake I made was in not placing a question mark at the end of that statement in the op.
Maybe, or maybe you shouldn't be so defensive and actually read what people write.
I don't actually mind the Sex Pistols, I recognise their importance in musical history, as I do the Beatles who I personally don't care for. The minute this all turned nasty was when you started bad mouthing a band who have an equally proven musical relevance both among fans and critics, and probably even more so than the Pistols given their record sales, and the results of music polls -which let's face it, are probably the only real way of quantifying either side of the argument.
I find it ironic that you are trying to argue from a critical stand point, as if you are some kind of musical historian when you are quite clearly so biased against certain bands, which causes you to completely dismiss them.
Maybe, or maybe you shouldn't be so defensive and actually read what people write.
I don't actually mind the Sex Pistols, I recognise their importance in musical history, as I do the Beatles who I personally don't care for. The minute this all turned nasty was when you started bad mouthing a band who have an equally proven musical relevance both among fans and critics, and probably even more so than the Pistols given their record sales, and the results of music polls -which let's face it, are probably the only real way of quantifying either side of the argument.
I find it ironic that you are trying to argue from a critical stand point, as if you are some kind of musical historian when you are quite clearly so biased against certain bands, which causes you to completely dismiss them.
Maybe you should take a look at the first page of this thread if you want to see when and how this debate turned nasty.
Yes but that was an entirely personal opinion which I stated clearly.
And my belief that Pink Floyd are boring cunts is also my entirely personal opinion.
Yes thats perfectly fine for you to have that opinion but you have repeatedly disregarded them as a whole. Having no benefits at all. That is short sighted and you obviously wont accept other peoples ideas
Yes but that was an entirely personal opinion which I stated clearly.
And my belief that Pink Floyd are boring cunts is also my entirely personal opinion.
Yes thats perfectly fine for you to have that opinion but you have repeatedly disregarded them as a whole. Having no benefits at all. That is short sighted and you obviously wont accept other peoples ideas
I know there's worse bands out there, and I don't really have too much against Pink Floyd. In fact, I really like 'Piper At The Gates of Dawn'. Their later stuff just never did much for me.
Maybe you should take a look at the first page of this thread if you want to see when and how this debate turned nasty.
As long as you state it's your opinion, it's not an issue. Just like I have no problem with you calling Pink Floyd boring cunts - despite the fact you really like Piper At The Gates Of Dawn possibly their least exciting album, but I digress....
What people have taken issue with is the fact you are trying to argue that there is some way of substantiating the Pistol's influence whilst simultaneously trashing the huge impact Pink Floyd have made on music. It just doesn't add up. Plenty of the biggest bands around today can be traced back to Pink Floyd, just as plenty can be traced back to the Pistols.
Comments
See the difference is that I wouldn't care about that, pop music tends to have a larger following than rock music, it's more accessible and less extreme - it's inoffensive (well maybe not Celine Dion, but that's another argument!).
When you consider the relatively abstract nature of say Dark Side Of The Moon, I think it's remarkable that they sold that many copies, but it's clearly an indicator of the enduring appeal, which shouldn't be ignored.
The Wiki quote I posted showed the results of a poll by Rolling Stone. The NME poll was from readers from both Europe and the U.S. But of course that's not good enough for you.
Any alternative band of the past 30 years has been influenced, either directly or indirectly by the Sex Pistols and the punk movement.
And the fact that they've both sold records has had no bearing on the evolution of music at all, just as the fact that Pink Floyd have sold however millions of copies of Dark Side of the Moon does nothing to alter my original point.
Ok so the Clash's London Calling was voted number 8 in the Rolling Stone poll in 2003, way ahead of the Sex Pistols. So clearly you must be wrong. :roll:
See I think that since Pink Floyd came first, the Sex Pistols were indirectly influenced by Pink Floyd at the 60's/70's rock movement. Without Pink Floyd making overly technical music, the Sex Pistols would never have had anything to rail against with their more simplified music.
How has it had no bearing? You dont know that. In 30 years someone may well write a load of reviews on Wiki that site Celine Dion is the most important musician of the 50 years. You cant possibly know what if any influences have been taken from her music.
http://www.rankapple.com/Lists/Poll/Gre ... msList.php oh and look who beat out the Sex Pistols
You think Pink Floyd were the only bunch of self-indulgent, Middle-class cunts around at that time?
Well then maybe you know something I don't. Care to enlighten me?
No but I think you may be the only self indulgent idiot around at this time. That was rude. Sorry FacePollution.
The word cunt is so punk. And no, but you have no way of proving that they didn't have an indirect influence.
And please do respond to my previous post about the polls.
I never took any poll as fact. I used it to illustrate a point. The poll I referred to above was just one of many sources that pointed the Pistols importance and legacy.
And I said the Pistols were the Greatest band of the past 50 years. The poll you've posted refers to greatest albums.
I dont know either way but you seem to have all the answers. I dont think anyone will evr be able to make you see the point. You are short sighted over this subject and have no interest in taking on other views. We have tried to take on your views but all you come back with is calling a musician or a band a cunt or a fucking dinosaur. Your rude, arogant and a fairly piss poor example of a music fan. Pushing your ideas like your some kind of messiah. Grow up you sad little man.
Yeah, except I won't go crying about it like a petulant baby like you did earlier.
I hope I get to meet you one day so you can say that to my face.
I was not crying about it but merely pointing out a fact.
Maybe you could get the chance to swear and shout at me a little.
So the Sex Pisols are "the greatest band of the last 50 years" but they didn't write the best album?
Nobody is disputing that they were important and that they have a legacy - but they are not the only band. Nothing you have provided indicates that they have made any more impact than Pink Floyd.
Except the truth is you haven't tried taking on any of my views at all. You've just tried to rubbish the Sex Pistols and shove pink Floyd down my throat. You could have made your point and then agreed to disagree, and maybe started another thread about the alleged merits of Pink Floyd.
Instead you come across all knowing and smug and then act like a baby when you don't get your own way.
Maybe the mistake I made was in not placing a question mark at the end of that statement in the op.
But I have tried to take on your views. I have aknowledged that the sex pistols have played some part in changing the direction of where music went. I even said it was a good thing. I didnt say they were dinosaurs or cunts or boring. I gave my personal view of them but still managed to accept they had some relevance. You on the other hand have totally disregarded bands and entire genres of music as being pointless and ahving nio influence what so ever. So what are you talking about?
Maybe I think they are the best band of the last 50 years would ahve been better.
"Well it's not like the Pistols invented their sound themselves as it was a blatant rip-off of The Stooges, but then again they did pretty much create the image of punk rock as we know it. Yet I can't really see what the point is to compare them to Pink Floyd as they both have influenced entirely different group of artists.
Of course Pink Floyd has sold more records, but how their heritage should be more influential is open to debate: they didn't invent the concept album and they weren't the only ones creating space rock. Maybe Dave Gilmour's guitar sound has influenced some Eighties' guitar sounds but in the end I think all of that comes to less than Pistols' influence on popular culture at a larger scale."
This is what you said in your first post in this thread:
Yes but that was an entirely personal opinion which I stated clearly.
Maybe, or maybe you shouldn't be so defensive and actually read what people write.
I don't actually mind the Sex Pistols, I recognise their importance in musical history, as I do the Beatles who I personally don't care for. The minute this all turned nasty was when you started bad mouthing a band who have an equally proven musical relevance both among fans and critics, and probably even more so than the Pistols given their record sales, and the results of music polls -which let's face it, are probably the only real way of quantifying either side of the argument.
I find it ironic that you are trying to argue from a critical stand point, as if you are some kind of musical historian when you are quite clearly so biased against certain bands, which causes you to completely dismiss them.
And my belief that Pink Floyd are boring cunts is also my entirely personal opinion.
Maybe you should take a look at the first page of this thread if you want to see when and how this debate turned nasty.
Yes thats perfectly fine for you to have that opinion but you have repeatedly disregarded them as a whole. Having no benefits at all. That is short sighted and you obviously wont accept other peoples ideas
I said this on page 3 of this thread:
As long as you state it's your opinion, it's not an issue. Just like I have no problem with you calling Pink Floyd boring cunts - despite the fact you really like Piper At The Gates Of Dawn possibly their least exciting album, but I digress....
What people have taken issue with is the fact you are trying to argue that there is some way of substantiating the Pistol's influence whilst simultaneously trashing the huge impact Pink Floyd have made on music. It just doesn't add up. Plenty of the biggest bands around today can be traced back to Pink Floyd, just as plenty can be traced back to the Pistols.