the only reason why 99% of us know about pearl jam is because they "sold out" in the early 90s. if it weren't for them selling out, the only people that would be aware of the band would be the teens that saw them play small shows in seattle.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
COMMUNISM AND SOCIALISM DO NOT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD, AT LEAST NOT FOR HUMANS.
I don´t care what they charge. I paid to see them last time in seattle and LA. I don´t regret paying. The only thing I regret is that maybe going to Philly instead for the 4 shows.
complaining about high prices is communism now? what will they think of next?
No, that´s not communism. Communism would be PJ playing for free. Wich they never will (besides some gigs they have done and hopefuly some day will again).
Vedder has said he is a commy, right? Well I believe he (and the band) has tried to stick with his ideals, as much as he could, in this capitalist world. I blindly believe that they do give back. And they deserve to be wealthy. Vedder has a very strange sense of humor, if you ask me, but I believe he and the rest are good, talented, human beings. People that care about things that a lot of people don´t. Or don´t do anything about it. In my book, what they are doing (high priced tickets and target included), are not selling out.
I'm so glad I don't give a flying fuck about a bands decisions outside of their music. It's as if some people will just stop listening to a band over something as stupid as that.
Did you hear about kings of Leon? Yea they're making their own clothing line. You know what I'm gonna do about it? Get their next album cuz I could care less.
I'm so glad I don't give a flying fuck about a bands decisions outside of their music. It's as if some people will just stop listening to a band over something as stupid as that.
Did you hear about kings of Leon? Yea they're making their own clothing line. You know what I'm gonna do about it? Get their next album cuz I could care less.
Post edited by dunkman on
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i think Ed has been making sweeping statements based upon moral judgements for years, i guess it only makes sense the fans would too. its the price you pay for insisting on ranting at shows since forever. plus i think its possible to still love the music, and be critical of other things. heck i thik their new albums pale in comparison, but i still love the old albums so much i still consider myself a HUGE fan.[/quote]
Mr. Smith - rarely do I find myself agreeing with you, but thank you for making a good point: because we're critical, it doesn't mean we don't love the music. I choose to pay my hard-earned $ to see this monster band live, not to hear about what a shitty president George W. was. It's a foregone conclusion - W. was a lying bastard...now get on with the concert!
Having said that, if PJ "selling out" gives everyone such heartburn, get the hell off the page the day of pre-sales and let us who care to spend the asking price buy our tickets.
I'll tell you who the real sellouts are - Nickelback and Bon Jovi. One in the same - you can turn on adult contemporary, top 40, hell, even some country stations and hear those choad-smokers. But, I'm sure someone out there loves them too - which is why I don't frequent their message boards, ticket lines, etc.
The more money they make the more benefits we get---we being people in the world--- the more charities they contribute to----the more gigs they will want to play----the more albums they will want to make
the more fans to join our family
if anyone feels they have sold out, leave, get out, just like a family member who chooses to leave home because they do not think that mommy and daddy are giving them enough, I am sure you will be missed but mommy and daddy still have to feed the other kids.
This is a tiresome debate but I am going to go ahead and throw my two cents in anyway...
For those who are crying about the band being 'sellouts' I think you should try to think about what the band has done over the course of their career to give it a little context. In the formative years (post Mother Love Bone) you had a group of guys that had been through a lot. They were on the verge of fame, had signed a big record deal and then their lead singer dies suddenly.
Stone and Jeff made no apologies for the fact that they wanted to be career musicians. They wanted to make a living making music. They wanted to get paid for their craft. It's the same as any person making the decision to say, "I want to do what I love and nothing else." So they get a new singer, guitar player, and drummer who all share the same desire to stop kicking around in unknown bands while working second jobs and start doing the real thing. I find nothing wrong with this.
In the beginning, they did videos, press, festivals, etc...anything they could do to be heard. It's what any band would want for themselves. They didn't whore themselves out or change their creative approach...they just marketed themselves. Again, what is wrong with this?
Then, things exploded. Their fame and popularity got to a level that they probably never thought it could go to. They were absolutely the biggest band in the world from late '92 through '94. They made a choice for their sanity and personal lives to pull back and get out of the limelight. It probably saved them as a band and as human beings.
Here's where I think people got confused - some people took it as, "they're turning their backs on pop culture and society. this is awesome! they're so indie!" It was a rational decision to make. The machine had just eaten up Cobain and spit him out. They didn't want to end up the same way. It wasn't a moral stance so much as a survival stance. I think this is where some people that accuse them today of being 'sellouts' misunderstand. They just wanted to keep their sanity.
After this, they lost fans. That's no surprise. People that were half-assed, grunge bandwaggon fans jumped off. It happened to every band of this era. Pearl Jam managed to keep a sizable audience. They were comfortable with this for a while, but then even that base was shrinking and I think they were tired of dealing with EPIC. EPIC seemed to lose their desire to promote the band which is not surprising after having to deal with Pearl Jam pulling back at the height of their popularity.
This brings us to present day. They now have something great - an ability to be a self-sustaining entity. The music business has changed to the point where they don't need a major label. So they do a deal with Target. Who cares? They had to deal with someone! They want to be relevant and they're making decisions to make that possible. I cannot fathom how this is 'selling out'. People can nit-pick all they want about a show (3 songs, mind you) they did for Target employees, commercials, interviews, etc. It's a weak argument. If you think they're selling out now, then you might as well accuse them of doing it for their entire career aside from 2 or 3 years in the mid 90's.
"Darkness comes in waves, tell me, why invite it to stay?"
I really dont get all this other criticism. The industry is constantly ever-changing, and maybe they make a bad decision here and there along the way, but who gives shit, they have to try new things.
And as far as Ed goes...
How do you think 2020 Ed will look back on 1998 ed and 2010 Ed?
...In my opinion, he'll say something to the effect of "thank god I kept learning and trying new things."
Did you hear about kings of Leon? Yea they're making their own clothing line. You know what I'm gonna do about it? Get their next album cuz I could care less.
i dont care about selling out, unless it changes their music.
has it? maybe. not sure. i'll wait for the next album to decide that for sure. but if its more poppy stuff made to sell records (not that i think BS is a bad album), i would have a problem with that.
i think Ed has been making sweeping statements based upon moral judgements for years, i guess it only makes sense the fans would too. its the price you pay for insisting on ranting at shows since forever. plus i think its possible to still love the music, and be critical of other things. heck i thik their new albums pale in comparison, but i still love the old albums so much i still consider myself a HUGE fan.
Mr. Smith - rarely do I find myself agreeing with you, but thank you for making a good point: because we're critical, it doesn't mean we don't love the music. I choose to pay my hard-earned $ to see this monster band live, not to hear about what a shitty president George W. was. It's a foregone conclusion - W. was a lying bastard...now get on with the concert!
Having said that, if PJ "selling out" gives everyone such heartburn, get the hell off the page the day of pre-sales and let us who care to spend the asking price buy our tickets.
I'll tell you who the real sellouts are - Nickelback and Bon Jovi. One in the same - you can turn on adult contemporary, top 40, hell, even some country stations and hear those choad-smokers. But, I'm sure someone out there loves them too - which is why I don't frequent their message boards, ticket lines, etc.[/quote]
I actually really liked Bon Jovi in the 80s... I'm not sure who the band is that calls themselves Bon Jovi these days, but it sure as hell isn't the band that was preoccupied with getting drunk & laid in '87. Now they're preoccupied with singing crappy duets with country bands.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Q: What does the term 'selling out' mean in regards to music?
A: There are many definitions, however the one we should be concerned with is: 'a compromise in musical integrity, substance or creativity'
Q: Have Pearl Jam sold out using the above definition?
A: Absolutely 100% not. Just listen to the lyrics on 'Just Breathe', 'The End', 'Unthought Known', or listen to the creative bass lines Jeff has played since 1990 or the unique blend of three guitars PJ continue to pioneer.
Q: Are there degrees of selling out or is it a loose term with only black and white?
A: Well, don't there have to be degrees of'selling out'? Signing a record contract is 'selling out', so is using Ticketmaster or playing for Target execs-as is getting Desmond Child to write your songs for you (Bon Jovi 'Livin on a Prayer', 'You give love a bad name', Aerosmith 'Angel', 'Crazy', etc). But those are not the same thing, now are they? Is having a pro songwriter write songs for you the same as playing a party for Target execs? Does PJ now have less meaning behind their songs because some millionaire CEO had them played for him??
Q: Which degree of selling out is an issue?
A: When you lose your MUSICAL creativity, integrity and substance.
Q: Have PJ ever lost their creativity, integrity or substance?
A: NO
Q: Should we care if they do these little extra things to make money but keep their integrity?
A; No you should not. Name someone else alive today with PJs popularity (beside Neil Young) that ever gave a crap about musical integrity like they do? As long as the music is unique and with substance leave everything else be. Because no band today has more substance then PJ.
When they start playing fairs, and clubs, and bars we will see who the true fans are. I hope they have to play clubs and there is only 300 people there, because I WILL be there and hopefully I will get to meet the band. It is a different music buying(stealing) public out here and the game is different. Thay have to make money to support their families and to keep the band going as well, and I would not be suprised if they took the money from Target gig and donated it all to chartiy. DO YOU WORK FOR FREE???
Let's see those 2013 dates in the southern states.
Comments
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No, that´s not communism. Communism would be PJ playing for free. Wich they never will (besides some gigs they have done and hopefuly some day will again).
Vedder has said he is a commy, right? Well I believe he (and the band) has tried to stick with his ideals, as much as he could, in this capitalist world. I blindly believe that they do give back. And they deserve to be wealthy. Vedder has a very strange sense of humor, if you ask me, but I believe he and the rest are good, talented, human beings. People that care about things that a lot of people don´t. Or don´t do anything about it. In my book, what they are doing (high priced tickets and target included), are not selling out.
Did you hear about kings of Leon? Yea they're making their own clothing line. You know what I'm gonna do about it? Get their next album cuz I could care less.
8/7/08, 6/9/09
Mr. Smith - rarely do I find myself agreeing with you, but thank you for making a good point: because we're critical, it doesn't mean we don't love the music. I choose to pay my hard-earned $ to see this monster band live, not to hear about what a shitty president George W. was. It's a foregone conclusion - W. was a lying bastard...now get on with the concert!
Having said that, if PJ "selling out" gives everyone such heartburn, get the hell off the page the day of pre-sales and let us who care to spend the asking price buy our tickets.
I'll tell you who the real sellouts are - Nickelback and Bon Jovi. One in the same - you can turn on adult contemporary, top 40, hell, even some country stations and hear those choad-smokers. But, I'm sure someone out there loves them too - which is why I don't frequent their message boards, ticket lines, etc.
WELL PUT
I LOVE YOU MARY JANE
For those who are crying about the band being 'sellouts' I think you should try to think about what the band has done over the course of their career to give it a little context. In the formative years (post Mother Love Bone) you had a group of guys that had been through a lot. They were on the verge of fame, had signed a big record deal and then their lead singer dies suddenly.
Stone and Jeff made no apologies for the fact that they wanted to be career musicians. They wanted to make a living making music. They wanted to get paid for their craft. It's the same as any person making the decision to say, "I want to do what I love and nothing else." So they get a new singer, guitar player, and drummer who all share the same desire to stop kicking around in unknown bands while working second jobs and start doing the real thing. I find nothing wrong with this.
In the beginning, they did videos, press, festivals, etc...anything they could do to be heard. It's what any band would want for themselves. They didn't whore themselves out or change their creative approach...they just marketed themselves. Again, what is wrong with this?
Then, things exploded. Their fame and popularity got to a level that they probably never thought it could go to. They were absolutely the biggest band in the world from late '92 through '94. They made a choice for their sanity and personal lives to pull back and get out of the limelight. It probably saved them as a band and as human beings.
Here's where I think people got confused - some people took it as, "they're turning their backs on pop culture and society. this is awesome! they're so indie!" It was a rational decision to make. The machine had just eaten up Cobain and spit him out. They didn't want to end up the same way. It wasn't a moral stance so much as a survival stance. I think this is where some people that accuse them today of being 'sellouts' misunderstand. They just wanted to keep their sanity.
After this, they lost fans. That's no surprise. People that were half-assed, grunge bandwaggon fans jumped off. It happened to every band of this era. Pearl Jam managed to keep a sizable audience. They were comfortable with this for a while, but then even that base was shrinking and I think they were tired of dealing with EPIC. EPIC seemed to lose their desire to promote the band which is not surprising after having to deal with Pearl Jam pulling back at the height of their popularity.
This brings us to present day. They now have something great - an ability to be a self-sustaining entity. The music business has changed to the point where they don't need a major label. So they do a deal with Target. Who cares? They had to deal with someone! They want to be relevant and they're making decisions to make that possible. I cannot fathom how this is 'selling out'. People can nit-pick all they want about a show (3 songs, mind you) they did for Target employees, commercials, interviews, etc. It's a weak argument. If you think they're selling out now, then you might as well accuse them of doing it for their entire career aside from 2 or 3 years in the mid 90's.
is that exactly what I thought I read."
too funny.
I really dont get all this other criticism. The industry is constantly ever-changing, and maybe they make a bad decision here and there along the way, but who gives shit, they have to try new things.
And as far as Ed goes...
How do you think 2020 Ed will look back on 1998 ed and 2010 Ed?
...In my opinion, he'll say something to the effect of "thank god I kept learning and trying new things."
Caring less aside, here be the KoL duds --
http://www.barneys.com/Barneys/BARNEYS, ... 20to%20air
Highlights include a $210 flannel button-down, a $130 t-shirt and a nice dress on sale for the low, low price of $160 -- down from the MSRP of $390.
Long live rock ...
Don't you do it, too.
has it? maybe. not sure. i'll wait for the next album to decide that for sure. but if its more poppy stuff made to sell records (not that i think BS is a bad album), i would have a problem with that.
AND FUCKING TOUR LIKE A REAL BAND!
Not even close.
Mr. Smith - rarely do I find myself agreeing with you, but thank you for making a good point: because we're critical, it doesn't mean we don't love the music. I choose to pay my hard-earned $ to see this monster band live, not to hear about what a shitty president George W. was. It's a foregone conclusion - W. was a lying bastard...now get on with the concert!
Having said that, if PJ "selling out" gives everyone such heartburn, get the hell off the page the day of pre-sales and let us who care to spend the asking price buy our tickets.
I'll tell you who the real sellouts are - Nickelback and Bon Jovi. One in the same - you can turn on adult contemporary, top 40, hell, even some country stations and hear those choad-smokers. But, I'm sure someone out there loves them too - which is why I don't frequent their message boards, ticket lines, etc.[/quote]
I actually really liked Bon Jovi in the 80s... I'm not sure who the band is that calls themselves Bon Jovi these days, but it sure as hell isn't the band that was preoccupied with getting drunk & laid in '87. Now they're preoccupied with singing crappy duets with country bands.
A: There are many definitions, however the one we should be concerned with is: 'a compromise in musical integrity, substance or creativity'
Q: Have Pearl Jam sold out using the above definition?
A: Absolutely 100% not. Just listen to the lyrics on 'Just Breathe', 'The End', 'Unthought Known', or listen to the creative bass lines Jeff has played since 1990 or the unique blend of three guitars PJ continue to pioneer.
Q: Are there degrees of selling out or is it a loose term with only black and white?
A: Well, don't there have to be degrees of'selling out'? Signing a record contract is 'selling out', so is using Ticketmaster or playing for Target execs-as is getting Desmond Child to write your songs for you (Bon Jovi 'Livin on a Prayer', 'You give love a bad name', Aerosmith 'Angel', 'Crazy', etc). But those are not the same thing, now are they? Is having a pro songwriter write songs for you the same as playing a party for Target execs? Does PJ now have less meaning behind their songs because some millionaire CEO had them played for him??
Q: Which degree of selling out is an issue?
A: When you lose your MUSICAL creativity, integrity and substance.
Q: Have PJ ever lost their creativity, integrity or substance?
A: NO
Q: Should we care if they do these little extra things to make money but keep their integrity?
A; No you should not. Name someone else alive today with PJs popularity (beside Neil Young) that ever gave a crap about musical integrity like they do? As long as the music is unique and with substance leave everything else be. Because no band today has more substance then PJ.