The PJ sell-out debate ends here

Hugh Freaking Dillon

simpleman wrote:

I like reading what you have to say. It finally makes me feel smarter than somebody. Take your 30 troll posts and go to that 3 doors down show. I'm sure you're 40 years old, divorced, broke, and trying to find your way out of your parents home. Please don't take it out on this website.... You were probably fun to hang out with when you were 4.

"Parents' basement"? Really? REALLY?? :ugeek:

simpleman

Johnny Sitar wrote:

simpleman wrote:

I like reading what you have to say. It finally makes me feel smarter than somebody. Take your 30 troll posts and go to that 3 doors down show. I'm sure you're 40 years old, divorced, broke, and trying to find your way out of your parents home. Please don't take it out on this website.... You were probably fun to hang out with when you were 4.

"Parents' basement"? Really? REALLY?? :ugeek:

REALLY.

igotpj

This whole thread is a major headache. People get all frustrated and end up shitting kittens over this. Its not worth the time and energy.

I am going back to my Guiness.

doompony

mca47 wrote:

'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"

i wonder if it would even be possible for them only charge what they used to charge... and still make enough money to not only pay for their staff, but for the bus ride home.

you guys do realise the cost of everything has gone up a freakish amount in the past decade or so right?

i mean, look at house prices (which I'm doing a lot of lately, trying to buy a fucking house). a house in wellington in 2002 might have been $180,000 or so. nowadays that same house will sell for $350,000. i'm going to go stand on the street and yell at the houses "YOU SOLD OUT MAN! FUCK YOU MAN! I'M TEARING ALL MY POSTERS OF YOU OFF THE WALLS AND BURNING THEM MAN!" and then burst into tears.

reflectedfromafar

PJammer4life wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

PJammer4life wrote:

Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.

Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.


No Code sold over a million copies with NO PROMOTION and NO TOURING. Backspacer with Rock Band/Target/Videos etc. has yet to pass 500,000 after 6 months. No Code had that in the first 2 weeks. So I would say they NEED this stuff to stay relevant for sales, whereas in 1996 they didn't need to do it to hit a million.

Bands used to sell lots of records in those days. No one sells records anymore. Have you looked in on the Backspacer sales thread ? 500,000 is now a large number in the music industry. They are playing a very necessary game now. It's called "Adapt or Die".

And just so you and other people shouting 'sell out' on here know: it's now 2010. Not 1990, not 1993, not 1996, not 1998, not 2003 or any other year.

It's 2010. Look it up.

stickfig13

If they're are old and working for the money then how does Ed explain a song like "soon forget"? I thought it wasn't about the money in life......

Personally I don't care what they do, but part of the reason I love them is for what they stand for

doompony

soon forget seems to be more about someone being ALL in for the money and loving nothing but money. counts his money every morning.. the only thing that keeps him horny...

pretty sure the guys are all in it for the love of their families, and making money to make their lives happy and easier is most likely driven by that love.

and if they get to buy a brand new calculator watch in the proceed and have some fun holidays and wear fancy suits to the rnr hof inductions then good on them. i used to buy a bunch of crap with my fortnightly pay packet. it was fun.

stickfig13

doompony wrote:

soon forget seems to be more about someone being ALL in for the money and loving nothing but money. counts his money every morning.. the only thing that keeps him horny...

pretty sure the guys are all in it for the love of their families, and making money to make their lives happy and easier is most likely driven by that love.

and if they get to buy a brand new calculator watch in the proceed and have some fun holidays and wear fancy suits to the rnr hof inductions then good on them. i used to buy a bunch of crap with my fortnightly pay packet. it was fun.

Ok, but them faulting someone for making lots of money seems a little hypocritical if their goal is now to make the most money they can by pimping for Target.

Maybe they just want their music heard by millions...?? Can't blame em for that.

doompony

i don't think they fault anyone for making money. they wouldn't have many friends in their own industry if they did and would have to hate each other.

you cannot say pearl jam are in it for money and money alone.

High Fidelity 2000

ComeToTX wrote:

I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.

Now THAT is a great point. They ignore huge chunks of the country, but obviously go out of their way (it's not like the Target convention was in NYC on Sunday after they were on SNL) for "the man" (if that's what you wanna call it).

People complain about $80 tickets, but maybe it's because they have to pay for tickets AND plane tickets/hotels because this band refuses to come anywhere near them for years at a time. Maybe.

And will people please stop saying Backspacer is an independent release? REALLY? (to quote Weekend Update) Target is an indie record store? Really?!Was Chinese Democracy an independent release? Was The Eagles last album an independent release?

stickfig13

doompony wrote:

i don't think they fault anyone for making money. they wouldn't have many friends in their own industry if they did and would have to hate each other.

you cannot say pearl jam are in it for money and money alone.

I'm not saying they do it for money. Others are saying they did the Target thing to make cash because they are older with families etc....

I'm saying, if that's true, then it makes me sad because I've always loved them because of what they stood for (in addition to good tunes)

goldrush

and the prize for "Most Incorrectly Titled Thread" goes to...

SolarWorld

The Internet portion of Pearl jams fan base is total weak sauce...

doompony

anyone would think they played at george dubya bush's surprise birthday party or something!

Isaac

I love you guys and your passion... what can I say? I disagree with the sell out talk (and I am an early '90's fan, spin me round, roll me over).

Hmmm...
Critical of Pearl Jam "selling out"? Yeah? What is your occupation? On your back, where is your shirt made... shoes on your feet... food grown? Using a computer... operating sys? Lynux perhaps? You must be a total non-sell out, good for you! Mutual fund? Stock market? Where is your money and what it is doing? Better make sure it isn't in Target or a parent group... call somebody...

In '93 when we thought they *weren't* sell outs they were on a sony/epic label selling tix for $18... according to Fugazi fans (buying tix @$5-8) the Pearl Jam people were sell outs all the way to Reno and back.

All I am asking is... "what is your def. of a sell out?" Cause over time it changes, and seem to be relative... in '98 it was when they did the DTE vid and played it on MTV... used ticketbastard for the tour and so on.

I say if you don't like PJ's politics in terms of "selling out"... then *find* a band, a small local band you can get behind... there are plenty of awesome bands out there.

But, be prepared to jump ship if they become popular and promote themselves...

over bends

Isaac wrote:

I love you guys and your passion... what can I say? I disagree with the sell out talk (and I am an early '90's fan, spin me round, roll me over).

Hmmm...
Critical of Pearl Jam "selling out"? Yeah? What is your occupation? On your back, where is your shirt made... shoes on your feet... food grown? Using a computer... operating sys? Lynux perhaps? You must be a total non-sell out, good for you! Mutual fund? Stock market? Where is your money and what it is doing? Better make sure it isn't in Target or a parent group... call somebody...

In '93 when we thought they *weren't* sell outs they were on a sony/epic label selling tix for $18... according to Fugazi fans (buying tix @$5-8) the Pearl Jam people were sell outs all the way to Reno and back.

All I am asking is... "what is your def. of a sell out?" Cause over time it changes, and seem to be relative... in '98 it was when they did the DTE vid and played it on MTV... used ticketbastard for the tour and so on.

I say if you don't like PJ's politics in terms of "selling out"... then *find* a band, a small local band you can get behind... there are plenty of awesome bands out there.

But, be prepared to jump ship if they become popular and promote themselves...

Well put, but I think people will cut the band some slack if they could see the logic or justification behind it. Going back to ticketmaster? It was a valiant fight, and a fight that they conceded when no other band would back them. The downside of not using ticketmaster would be to not play any major venue in the US. Ok. People could see the logic behind that easily. No one should call them out for that. Increase ticket prices? Ok, maybe a little steep for some, but changing times, changing expenses, it seems like a lot of people understand it.

Distributing Backspacer through Target? Eh, it's very divisive still but when people understood that indie stores got to sell it and they were making $5 on every album sold in an age where most people steal music, I think a lot of people forgave.

But flying to Minnesota to play for suits on the same ticket as the Jonas Bros? Not too many people can see the logic behind doing that other than the financial side. Any other "compromise" could generally be seen as for the benefit of the music, the fans, necessary evils in the long run. This is just weird... I swear, if Eddie every received a Grammy today, he'd probably stand tall and "thank the Academy." It just makes people wonder if this is the same band they've been following most of their lives, and while they could do whatever the fuck they want to as long as it doesn't change the music or screw the fans, some of these things make me scratch my head.

SolarWorld

over bends wrote:

It just makes people wonder if this is the same band they've been following most of their lives, and while they could do whatever the fuck they want to as long as it doesn't change the music or screw the fans, some of these things make me scratch my head.

:roll: Yeah its so confusing... :roll:

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

doompony wrote:

mca47 wrote:

'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"

i wonder if it would even be possible for them only charge what they used to charge... and still make enough money to not only pay for their staff, but for the bus ride home.

you guys do realise the cost of everything has gone up a freakish amount in the past decade or so right?

i mean, look at house prices (which I'm doing a lot of lately, trying to buy a fucking house). a house in wellington in 2002 might have been $180,000 or so. nowadays that same house will sell for $350,000. i'm going to go stand on the street and yell at the houses "YOU SOLD OUT MAN! FUCK YOU MAN! I'M TEARING ALL MY POSTERS OF YOU OFF THE WALLS AND BURNING THEM MAN!" and then burst into tears.

most bands manage just fine.

doompony

25 dollars a head to play at the huge arenas they fill? really? prove it.

SomethingCreative

I seriously hope all of you negative nancys decide not to renew your memberships...it'll put me closer to the stage and I wont have to stand next to any of you