Not shitting on him. Quite the opposite actually. I have so much respect for Chris that I guess I expected better of him in this particular circumstance. The guy was so smart and so self-aware, he knew the pain he was causing them. Guess I just wished he dropped them a line once or twice. To each their own.
please don't get me wrong - i understand what you're saying but i think the thing with people like Chris and anyone else is not to Romanticize them beyond who they really were ... a lot of us do that with Eddie and the band ...
he was a guy who dared to step beyond the socially constructed world around him ... i'm pretty sure he meant no malice in not keeping in touch with his family but i'm also pretty sure he didn't expect to die either ... i guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't think he intentionally went out of his way to hurt his family ...
glad you got my joke.
yeah all this, i blame chris for this, i blame chris for that is bullshit.
i think actually it was you? who recently said something about being happy with what you have. i fully agree. and that doesn't mean *settling*...or not challenging yourself, or not wanting *more*....just that in any time or space, YOU are the master of your own happiness. it's not always fireworks, but contentment and peace is pretty fucking amazing too.
yes i did say that.
it's a fine line.
as people we want want want. that's how we got here. it's evolution baby. but sometimes you need to tell yourself to stop. just stop and look what you have and revel in that.
contentment is fucking amazing i agree. it's a great feeling
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
I guess its ok for an alcoholic dad who beats his wife up to be the way he is? I mean he's living his life for himself after all... does it hurt the people he's abusing? probably.. but its his choice, not yours.
Adjective
* S: (adj) selfish (concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others)
so there should be a
they hurt my feelings law
?
chris hurt his family's feelings by not contacting them. that's all it was hurt feelings that turned into emotional damage because he HAPPENED to die.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
I guess its ok for an alcoholic dad who beats his wife up to be the way he is? I mean he's living his life for himself after all... does it hurt the people he's abusing? probably.. but its his choice, not yours.
Adjective
* S: (adj) selfish (concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others)
so there should be a
they hurt my feelings law
?
chris hurt his family's feelings by not contacting them. that's all it was hurt feelings that turned into emotional damage because he HAPPENED to die.
who said anything about imaginary fucking laws? :?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
as for chris, the selfish argument always makes me laugh...does one have to live one's life for other people or for themselves? if one wants to cut themselves off from their world, that is their choice...does it hurt the people he's cutoff? probably...but it's his choice, not yours
ok on that point...
I guess its ok for an alcoholic dad who beats his wife up to be the way he is? I mean he's living his life for himself after all... does it hurt the people he's abusing? probably.. but its his choice, not yours.
Adjective
* S: (adj) selfish (concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others)
he's the fucking dictionary definition... :thumbup:
taking it a bit far, no?
comparing a son who doesn't call his family, to an alcoholic, physically abusive husband/father?
or comparing a husband and father taking off on his wife and kids...to again, a child taking off and not keeping in contact? bit of a stretch imo....and i am no mccandless apologist. it's selfish, but not even in the same ballpark. one is abusive, the other, merely selfish.
one chooses to be a husband and/or a father, i hope. one does not choose to be born, or what family they are born into. big difference right there. now idk the full story b/c i never read the book, but sure...seems he was born into some privilege, but also sounds like he had strained familial relations (outside of his sis) that he wanted some escape from, beyond just wanting to test himself and escape society's trappings for awhile too.
and once more.....he WAS selfish - so what of it? lots of people are selfish, we all are some of the time...some more than others. so for this one period of his life, he was utterly selfish. is that the only point? that makes him a horrid human being? personal perspective to be sure...
well ms dream.. this entire thread has been me saying he's a selfish guy.. so i'm only responding to people who have laughed at that suggestion, or told me I was wrong to think of him as such because one poster said when she was that age her parents didnt care where she was... quite why that doesnt make him selfish i don't know, but she never came back on to reply.
have i taken it too far? of course i have, as did McCandless... but what did you expect. My points stand... there is no difference to a father waking out on his family or an alcoholic living HIS life to suit himself regardless of others to that of a young man disappearing into the ether to satiate his own personal hunger. none. all of them are equally as selfish as the other.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
well ms dream.. this entire thread has been me saying he's a selfish guy.. so i'm only responding to people who have laughed at that suggestion, or told me I was wrong to think of him as such because one poster said when she was that age her parents didnt care where she was... quite why that doesnt make him selfish i don't know, but she never came back on to reply.
have i taken it too far? of course i have, as did McCandless... but what did you expect. My points stand... there is no difference to a father waking out on his family or an alcoholic living HIS life to suit himself regardless of others to that of a young man disappearing into the ether to satiate his own personal hunger. none. all of them are equally as selfish as the other.
actually, norm's post to me suggests he laughs at the selfish argument, simply b/c he doesn't see it as much of an 'argument'....nor do i, really. i think most, if they are honest, see it as selfish...just some are saying, that's ok. people have different priorities. and while yes, his choice hurt his family, IF he lived, it would've been moved past and all that. it's only b/c he died that this really is so tragic.
my sister ran away from home when she was 17. she even told my mom she was going to do it. she and my mom locked horns like mad, my sister just wanted her freedom. she even told my parents she'd be back in time for school. smy mom watched like a hawk, but she still managed to take off. was it selfish? you bet. but she DID come home, as she said she would...and all was fine. it still was hell on my mom, but yea...sometimes people need to go off on their own.
and YOU may deem all those acts as equally selfish, but i sure as hell do not. so it goes...
and once more.....he WAS selfish - so what of it? lots of people are selfish, we all are some of the time...some more than others. so for this one period of his life, he was utterly selfish. is that the only point? that makes him a horrid human being? personal perspective to be sure...
thank you. thats all i was saying.
1. he was selfish. that we have agreed on and i think others not recognising this do not have the mental framework or the stones to admit as much.
2. he was a moron. ok moron not being the best word. but the guy clearly thought he could tame nature. he almost entered Alaska without proper footwear as Eyed pointed out. He had very little supplies. A professional ranger thought he was arrogant and extremely naive. He made fatal and poor decisions. moron isnt the best word... but his actions are questionable.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
What if it’s absolutely necessary to be selfish in a moment to survive?
‘I have to get out of here or I’ll loose my mind’
And countless other examples
___________
it’s against the law or at least frown upon to beat your wife.
People couldn’t care less if somebody’s feelings are hurt. (chris's parents feelings were hurt because he didn't contact them)
There’s a big difference.
Decides2dream
comparing a son who doesn't call his family, to an alcoholic, physically abusive husband/father?
or comparing a husband and father taking off on his wife and kids...to again, a child taking off and not keeping in contact? bit of a stretch imo....and i am no mccandless apologist. it's selfish, but not even in the same ballpark. one is abusive, the other, merely selfish.
exactly what I was trying to say.
except in the case of chris in my opinion selfish isn't the right word.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
and once more.....he WAS selfish - so what of it? lots of people are selfish, we all are some of the time...some more than others. so for this one period of his life, he was utterly selfish. is that the only point? that makes him a horrid human being? personal perspective to be sure...
thank you. thats all i was saying.
1. he was selfish. that we have agreed on and i think others not recognising this do not have the mental framework or the stones to admit as much.
2. he was a moron. ok moron not being the best word. but the guy clearly thought he could tame nature. he almost entered Alaska without proper footwear as Eyed pointed out. He had very little supplies. A professional ranger thought he was arrogant and extremely naive. He made fatal and poor decisions. moron isnt the best word... but his actions are questionable.
well alrighty then.
i have not read this thread and all your posts in their entirety. i read the OP back when it was first posted, and responded to the actual topic. only today have i come back to revisit, and only read the last page, and added my most recent thoughts, so i have no idea how much you participated or who commented to your posts. all i saw was your response to norm's post, and i personally just thought you were missing his point. it's not about his selfishness or not, it's simply about him having a different perspective, and thus made very different choices than you or i or a lot of other people may've made.....and that it's ok to do that. i did not see anyone argue against him being selfish - i don't see how one could...but as i said, i didn't read all the posts, so who knows...people say all sorts of shit.
so yea 1. he was selfish
2. i dunno for sure. i think he made some bad decisions, but i also think in some sense...he didn't want to be fully prepared, he wanted it to be a different experience of such. honestly, idk wtf he wanted, b/c it's not really something i can identify with fully. so maybe he was a morn, but that i won't commit to.
3. he was living his life on his terms, and that part, i respect. i'd never make the same choices as he made, just like i wouldn't do the same as my sister....we're different people, but on some level, i can identify the desires and wants of such decisions, even if they are choices i'd never make. that was all.
btw - who the hell has the big avatar or sig or whatever the fuck it is that makes the page all wide and wonky?! :evil: i hate to say it, but i think it might be you ms. blondie. can you please fix it? cause, man...it's annoying!
one more btw at blondie - i personally DO think selfish is the right word, but it's also b/c i don't view being selfish always a bad thing; it's not a dirty word. many people say being child-free is a selfish choice - that may be, but i also think having children is a selfish choice. most choices are 'selfish' to some degree. there is nothing wrong with making a choice for yourself, for your own benefit, to the exclusion of others even at times. chris chose what he wanted, maybe even needed.....to the exculsion of others who loved him. sure, selfish. but again, nothing wrong with it. i doubt he meant to be hurtful, nor do i imagine him wanting it to be for life....it was what he wanted to do now, for himself, by himself.
exactly what I was trying to say.
except in the case of chris in my opinion selfish isn't the right word.
your opinion is wrong.
dictionary definition of selfish is...
"Holding one’s self-interest as the standard for decision making; Having regard for oneself above others’ well-being"
This describes him perfectly.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Not shitting on him. Quite the opposite actually. I have so much respect for Chris that I guess I expected better of him in this particular circumstance. The guy was so smart and so self-aware, he knew the pain he was causing them. Guess I just wished he dropped them a line once or twice. To each their own.
please don't get me wrong - i understand what you're saying but i think the thing with people like Chris and anyone else is not to Romanticize them beyond who they really were ... a lot of us do that with Eddie and the band ...
he was a guy who dared to step beyond the socially constructed world around him ... i'm pretty sure he meant no malice in not keeping in touch with his family but i'm also pretty sure he didn't expect to die either ... i guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't think he intentionally went out of his way to hurt his family ...
I agree with your romanticizing point, but it works both ways. Some people are just as quick to build him up and defend him as others are to tear him down and criticize him. I'm trying to find a middle ground where I can appreciate his spirit and get inspired by it, but also learn from his mistakes.
Believe me, I hope he wasn't intentioanlly hurting his family. But based upon his intellegance and his actions in the 17 months leading up to his death, it's a tough call. Also because of those actions, I don't think we can just assume he would've contacted them had he lived. Seems like wishful thinking.
He floated back down 'cause he wanted to share, his key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere.
I agree with your romanticizing point, but it works both ways. Some people are just as quick to build him up and defend him as others are to tear him down and criticize him. I'm trying to find a middle ground where I can appreciate his spirit and get inspired by it, but also learn from his mistakes.
Believe me, I hope he wasn't intentioanlly hurting his family. But based upon his intellegance and his actions in the 17 months leading up to his death, it's a tough call. Also because of those actions, I don't think we can just assume he would've contacted them had he lived. Seems like wishful thinking.
chris is to be admired for breaking free from societal constraints ... we may not know it but we all are controlled somewhat by these invisible chains ... some of them are more constraining than we know ...
you're right in that we all have to make certain assumptions when talking about chris ... as it relates to his family - in my opinion ... i'm guessing he knew his family was worried but at the same time he was shunning that whole white picket fence existence and he probably knew his parents wouldn't understand ... i don't want to say i'm like chris or i know exactly what he thought ... but i grew up in a very socially constricting family as well and i had to hurt my parents to break free ... if i did everything to make them happy - i'd be a miserable fuck ... they weren't gonna understand me otherwise ...
anyhoo - i believe the legacy that people should get from chris is to live your life, be connected to the people and places around you ... mistakes are part of life ... trying to live your life mistake free is not really living ... if you made a post about going into the alaskan wilderneess alone and that this is what you really wanted to do ... you will get a wide range of responses from those who'll tell you you're a moron to those who will say go for it ... in the end you have to come to your own decision and conclusions ... that's what chris did ...
you're right in that we all have to make certain assumptions when talking about chris ... as it relates to his family - in my opinion ... i'm guessing he knew his family was worried but at the same time he was shunning that whole white picket fence existence and he probably knew his parents wouldn't understand ... i don't want to say i'm like chris or i know exactly what he thought ... but i grew up in a very socially constricting family as well and i had to hurt my parents to break free ... if i did everything to make them happy - i'd be a miserable fuck ... they weren't gonna understand me otherwise ...
I truly do get what you are saying... i just wish you'd understand that all I'm suggesting is that McCandless picked up a phone on the 3rd of every month and dialled his sisters/mothers number and said "hey, I'm alive and well... I'll be in touch when i'm ready" and then hang up the phone.
but to just vanish and leave them wondering if you were murdered, joined a cult, fell down a mine shaft, etc is just kinda wrong in my eyes.
You and others seem to think that I'm suggesting he didnt go on his journey, and thats wrong, i think he definitely should have... but he could have at least let a family member know if he was alive. I know I would have.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I truly do get what you are saying... i just wish you'd understand that all I'm suggesting is that McCandless picked up a phone on the 3rd of every month and dialled his sisters/mothers number and said "hey, I'm alive and well... I'll be in touch when i'm ready" and then hang up the phone.
but to just vanish and leave them wondering if you were murdered, joined a cult, fell down a mine shaft, etc is just kinda wrong in my eyes.
You and others seem to think that I'm suggesting he didnt go on his journey, and thats wrong, i think he definitely should have... but he could have at least let a family member know if he was alive. I know I would have.
i totally understand what you're saying ... i believe i've said so a few times that your criticisms are legitimate ... i'm only trying to put a different perspective on it ...
you're right in that we all have to make certain assumptions when talking about chris ... as it relates to his family - in my opinion ... i'm guessing he knew his family was worried but at the same time he was shunning that whole white picket fence existence and he probably knew his parents wouldn't understand ... i don't want to say i'm like chris or i know exactly what he thought ... but i grew up in a very socially constricting family as well and i had to hurt my parents to break free ... if i did everything to make them happy - i'd be a miserable fuck ... they weren't gonna understand me otherwise ...
I truly do get what you are saying... i just wish you'd understand that all I'm suggesting is that McCandless picked up a phone on the 3rd of every month and dialled his sisters/mothers number and said "hey, I'm alive and well... I'll be in touch when i'm ready" and then hang up the phone.
but to just vanish and leave them wondering if you were murdered, joined a cult, fell down a mine shaft, etc is just kinda wrong in my eyes.
You and others seem to think that I'm suggesting he didnt go on his journey, and thats wrong, i think he definitely should have... but he could have at least let a family member know if he was alive. I know I would have.
i personally didn't think you meant that, at all....just that you are making his selfishness in his decision to not keep in contact with his family into much more, that's all. while i agree with you that it is not a choice i would ever make, and i truly feel for his family....i can also see, even if i can't fully understand, why he might've felt it was the right decision for him. i think that was what norm was suggesting earlier. he definitely 'could have' let his family know how he was, but he purposely chose not to....he must've had his own deeply personal reasons for it, and those reason don't have to necessarily point to him being a cold, heartless bastard is all. tho i certainly can see why many would think that's exactly what it means - just don't make it true, absolutely...
thanks for letting me know. i hope my siggy is fixed now.
i don't see it as selfish
i see as free will
just because he died some people see it as selfish.
he didn't know he was going to die.
he had intentions of speaking to his family again.
(but the lame-o didn't bring a map so he couldn't go back)
people seemed to forget his family hurt him deeply.
decides2dream
one more btw at blondie - i personally DO think selfish is the right word, but it's also b/c i don't view being selfish always a bad thing; it's not a dirty word. many people say being child-free is a selfish choice - that may be, but i also think having children is a selfish choice. most choices are 'selfish' to some degree. there is nothing wrong with making a choice for yourself, for your own benefit, to the exclusion of others even at times. chris chose what he wanted, maybe even needed.....to the exculsion of others who loved him. sure, selfish. but again, nothing wrong with it. i doubt he meant to be hurtful, nor do i imagine him wanting it to be for life....it was what he wanted to do now, for himself, by himself.
Good point.
Selfish has a negative tone to it and sometimes it’s not a negative thing.
I think in his case he really needed to cut ties with them in order to heal. And he seemed to be healing towards the end. Unfortunately he died and never got to enjoy his new found healing. Hey, but at least the healing was realized.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
Comments
please don't get me wrong - i understand what you're saying but i think the thing with people like Chris and anyone else is not to Romanticize them beyond who they really were ... a lot of us do that with Eddie and the band ...
he was a guy who dared to step beyond the socially constructed world around him ... i'm pretty sure he meant no malice in not keeping in touch with his family but i'm also pretty sure he didn't expect to die either ... i guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't think he intentionally went out of his way to hurt his family ...
glad you got my joke.
yeah all this, i blame chris for this, i blame chris for that is bullshit.
yes i did say that.
it's a fine line.
as people we want want want. that's how we got here. it's evolution baby. but sometimes you need to tell yourself to stop. just stop and look what you have and revel in that.
contentment is fucking amazing i agree. it's a great feeling
so there should be a
they hurt my feelings law
?
chris hurt his family's feelings by not contacting them. that's all it was hurt feelings that turned into emotional damage because he HAPPENED to die.
who said anything about imaginary fucking laws? :?
taking it a bit far, no?
comparing a son who doesn't call his family, to an alcoholic, physically abusive husband/father?
or comparing a husband and father taking off on his wife and kids...to again, a child taking off and not keeping in contact? bit of a stretch imo....and i am no mccandless apologist. it's selfish, but not even in the same ballpark. one is abusive, the other, merely selfish.
one chooses to be a husband and/or a father, i hope. one does not choose to be born, or what family they are born into. big difference right there. now idk the full story b/c i never read the book, but sure...seems he was born into some privilege, but also sounds like he had strained familial relations (outside of his sis) that he wanted some escape from, beyond just wanting to test himself and escape society's trappings for awhile too.
and once more.....he WAS selfish - so what of it? lots of people are selfish, we all are some of the time...some more than others. so for this one period of his life, he was utterly selfish. is that the only point? that makes him a horrid human being? personal perspective to be sure...
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
have i taken it too far? of course i have, as did McCandless... but what did you expect. My points stand... there is no difference to a father waking out on his family or an alcoholic living HIS life to suit himself regardless of others to that of a young man disappearing into the ether to satiate his own personal hunger. none. all of them are equally as selfish as the other.
actually, norm's post to me suggests he laughs at the selfish argument, simply b/c he doesn't see it as much of an 'argument'....nor do i, really. i think most, if they are honest, see it as selfish...just some are saying, that's ok. people have different priorities. and while yes, his choice hurt his family, IF he lived, it would've been moved past and all that. it's only b/c he died that this really is so tragic.
my sister ran away from home when she was 17. she even told my mom she was going to do it.
and YOU may deem all those acts as equally selfish, but i sure as hell do not. so it goes...
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
thank you. thats all i was saying.
1. he was selfish. that we have agreed on and i think others not recognising this do not have the mental framework or the stones to admit as much.
2. he was a moron. ok moron not being the best word. but the guy clearly thought he could tame nature. he almost entered Alaska without proper footwear as Eyed pointed out. He had very little supplies. A professional ranger thought he was arrogant and extremely naive. He made fatal and poor decisions. moron isnt the best word... but his actions are questionable.
‘I have to get out of here or I’ll loose my mind’
And countless other examples
___________
it’s against the law or at least frown upon to beat your wife.
People couldn’t care less if somebody’s feelings are hurt. (chris's parents feelings were hurt because he didn't contact them)
There’s a big difference.
Decides2dream
exactly what I was trying to say.
except in the case of chris in my opinion selfish isn't the right word.
well alrighty then.
i have not read this thread and all your posts in their entirety. i read the OP back when it was first posted, and responded to the actual topic. only today have i come back to revisit, and only read the last page, and added my most recent thoughts, so i have no idea how much you participated or who commented to your posts. all i saw was your response to norm's post, and i personally just thought you were missing his point. it's not about his selfishness or not, it's simply about him having a different perspective, and thus made very different choices than you or i or a lot of other people may've made.....and that it's ok to do that. i did not see anyone argue against him being selfish - i don't see how one could...but as i said, i didn't read all the posts, so who knows...people say all sorts of shit.
so yea 1. he was selfish
2. i dunno for sure. i think he made some bad decisions, but i also think in some sense...he didn't want to be fully prepared, he wanted it to be a different experience of such. honestly, idk wtf he wanted, b/c it's not really something i can identify with fully. so maybe he was a morn, but that i won't commit to.
3. he was living his life on his terms, and that part, i respect. i'd never make the same choices as he made, just like i wouldn't do the same as my sister....we're different people, but on some level, i can identify the desires and wants of such decisions, even if they are choices i'd never make. that was all.
btw - who the hell has the big avatar or sig or whatever the fuck it is that makes the page all wide and wonky?! :evil: i hate to say it, but i think it might be you ms. blondie.
one more btw at blondie - i personally DO think selfish is the right word, but it's also b/c i don't view being selfish always a bad thing; it's not a dirty word. many people say being child-free is a selfish choice - that may be, but i also think having children is a selfish choice. most choices are 'selfish' to some degree. there is nothing wrong with making a choice for yourself, for your own benefit, to the exclusion of others even at times. chris chose what he wanted, maybe even needed.....to the exculsion of others who loved him. sure, selfish. but again, nothing wrong with it. i doubt he meant to be hurtful, nor do i imagine him wanting it to be for life....it was what he wanted to do now, for himself, by himself.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
your opinion is wrong.
dictionary definition of selfish is...
"Holding one’s self-interest as the standard for decision making; Having regard for oneself above others’ well-being"
This describes him perfectly.
I agree with your romanticizing point, but it works both ways. Some people are just as quick to build him up and defend him as others are to tear him down and criticize him. I'm trying to find a middle ground where I can appreciate his spirit and get inspired by it, but also learn from his mistakes.
Believe me, I hope he wasn't intentioanlly hurting his family. But based upon his intellegance and his actions in the 17 months leading up to his death, it's a tough call. Also because of those actions, I don't think we can just assume he would've contacted them had he lived. Seems like wishful thinking.
chris is to be admired for breaking free from societal constraints ... we may not know it but we all are controlled somewhat by these invisible chains ... some of them are more constraining than we know ...
you're right in that we all have to make certain assumptions when talking about chris ... as it relates to his family - in my opinion ... i'm guessing he knew his family was worried but at the same time he was shunning that whole white picket fence existence and he probably knew his parents wouldn't understand ... i don't want to say i'm like chris or i know exactly what he thought ... but i grew up in a very socially constricting family as well and i had to hurt my parents to break free ... if i did everything to make them happy - i'd be a miserable fuck ... they weren't gonna understand me otherwise ...
anyhoo - i believe the legacy that people should get from chris is to live your life, be connected to the people and places around you ... mistakes are part of life ... trying to live your life mistake free is not really living ... if you made a post about going into the alaskan wilderneess alone and that this is what you really wanted to do ... you will get a wide range of responses from those who'll tell you you're a moron to those who will say go for it ... in the end you have to come to your own decision and conclusions ... that's what chris did ...
I truly do get what you are saying... i just wish you'd understand that all I'm suggesting is that McCandless picked up a phone on the 3rd of every month and dialled his sisters/mothers number and said "hey, I'm alive and well... I'll be in touch when i'm ready" and then hang up the phone.
but to just vanish and leave them wondering if you were murdered, joined a cult, fell down a mine shaft, etc is just kinda wrong in my eyes.
You and others seem to think that I'm suggesting he didnt go on his journey, and thats wrong, i think he definitely should have... but he could have at least let a family member know if he was alive. I know I would have.
these fuckers here are enjoying themselves quite nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=m9tsYtr7 ... re=related
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i totally understand what you're saying ... i believe i've said so a few times that your criticisms are legitimate ... i'm only trying to put a different perspective on it ...
i personally didn't think you meant that, at all....just that you are making his selfishness in his decision to not keep in contact with his family into much more, that's all. while i agree with you that it is not a choice i would ever make, and i truly feel for his family....i can also see, even if i can't fully understand, why he might've felt it was the right decision for him. i think that was what norm was suggesting earlier. he definitely 'could have' let his family know how he was, but he purposely chose not to....he must've had his own deeply personal reasons for it, and those reason don't have to necessarily point to him being a cold, heartless bastard is all.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i don't see it as selfish
i see as free will
just because he died some people see it as selfish.
he didn't know he was going to die.
he had intentions of speaking to his family again.
(but the lame-o didn't bring a map so he couldn't go back)
people seemed to forget his family hurt him deeply.
decides2dream
Good point.
Selfish has a negative tone to it and sometimes it’s not a negative thing.
I think in his case he really needed to cut ties with them in order to heal. And he seemed to be healing towards the end. Unfortunately he died and never got to enjoy his new found healing. Hey, but at least the healing was realized.