I haven't gotten into a one-on-one fight with a bear or done anything "radical" in my life. But I'm pretty happy with where I am right now and sure that the (near) future will be throwing some pretty big changes and decicion-makings (and adventures) my way. Life is what you make of it.
Eh, if you (or anyone) read through all of my ramblings.. Just.. Do as you please, as long as it's legal. :P
You've never fought a bear, eMMI?!? Man, that's pretty common in my neck of the woods. Fought two just last week. Oh, and the whole "legal" thing is kind of a slippery slope in my mind.
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I didn't finish the ITW movie......so how does he die exactly? I think I recall someone saying he ate something?
he ate the seeds of a plant that's related to the potato ... the field guide told him the plant was safe to eat but did not tell him the seeds were toxic ... the seeds basically poisoned him to the point where he couldn't retain any food or eat anything ... so, he essentially starved ...
I didn't finish the ITW movie......so how does he die exactly? I think I recall someone saying he ate something?
he ate the seeds of a plant that's related to the potato ... the field guide told him the plant was safe to eat but did not tell him the seeds were toxic ... the seeds basically poisoned him to the point where he couldn't retain any food or eat anything ... so, he essentially starved ...
According to the book and movie, at least.
He was really killed by Wendigo!
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anyways - the guy survived an entire winter in alaska ... he had more than the basic survival skills - he just simply got bad information from a field guide - a mistake any seasoned survivalist could make ...
he didnt have more than the basics.. it sounds like he simply had no idea what he was doing and lived through that winter by chance and good luck.
Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective
by Peter Christian
Both Chris McCandless and I arrived in Alaska in 1992. We both came to Alaska from the area around Washington, D.C. We were both about the same age and had a similar idea in mind; to live a free life in the Alaska wild. Fourteen years later Chris McCandless is dead and I am living the dream I set out to win for myself. What made the difference in these two outcomes?
There was nothing heroic or even mysterious about what Chris McCandless did in April 1992. Like many Alaskans, I read Jon Krakauer’s book “Into the Wild” when it first came out and finished it thinking, “why does this guy rate an entire book?” The fact that Krakauer is a great outdoor writer and philosopher is the bright spot and it makes a great read, but McCandless was not something special.
As a park ranger both at Denali National Park, very near where McCandless died, and now at Gates of the Arctic National Park, even more remote and wild than Denali, I am exposed continually to what I will call the “McCandless Phenomenon.” People, nearly always young men, come to Alaska to challenge themselves against an unforgiving wilderness landscape where convenience of access and possibility of rescue are
practically no nexistent. I know the personality type because I was one of those young men.
In fact, Alaska is populated with people who are either running away from something or seeking themselves in America’s last frontier. It is a place very much like the frontier of the Old West where you can come to and reinvent yourself. In reality, most people who make it as far as Alaska never get past the cities of Fairbanks and Anchorage because access is so difficult and expensive (usually by airplane), travel is so hard, the terrain is challenging, the bears are real, and so on.
A very few competent and skillful people make a successful go at living a free life in the wild, build a home in the mountains, raise their children there and eventually come back with good stories and happy endings. A greater number give it a try, realize it is neither easy nor romantic, just damn hard work, and quickly give up and return to town with their tails between their legs, but alive and the wiser for it.
Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take
the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and
either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other
rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of
government money on helicopters and overtime.
When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did
wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent
very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail
without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his
predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful. Consider where
he died. An abandoned bus. How did it get there? On a trail. If the bus could get into
the place where it died, why couldn’t McCandless get out of the place where he died?
The fact that he had to live in an old bus in the first place tells you a lot. Why didn’t he
have an adequate shelter from the beginning? What would he have done if he hadn’t
found the bus? A bag of rice and a sleeping bag do not constitute adequate gear and
provisions for a long stay in the wilderness.
No experienced backcountry person would travel during the month of April. It is a time
of transition from winter’s frozen rivers and hard packed snow with good traveling
conditions into spring’s quagmire of mud and raging waters where even small creeks
become impassible. Hungry bears come out of their dens with just one thing in mind—
eating.
Furthermore, Chris McCandless poached a moose and then wasted it. He killed a
magnificent animal superbly conditioned to survive the rigors of the Alaskan wild then,
inexperienced in how to preserve meat without refrigeration (the Eskimos and Indians do
it to this day), he watched 1500 pounds of meat rot away in front of him. He’s lucky the
stench didn’t bring a grizzly bear to end his suffering earlier. And in the end, the moose
died for nothing.
So what made the difference between McCandless and I fourteen years ago? Why am I
alive and he is dead? Essentially, Chris McCandless committed suicide while I
apprenticed myself to a career and a life that I wanted more badly than I can possibly
describe in so short an essay. In the end I believe that the difference between us was that
I wanted to live and Chris McCandless wanted to die (whether he realized it or not). The
fact that he died in a compelling way doesn’t change that outcome. He might have made
it work if he had respected the wilderness he was purported to have loved. But it is my
belief that surviving in the wilderness is not what he had in mind.
I did not start this essay to trash poor Chris McCandless. Not intentionally. It is sad that
the boy had to die. The tragedy is that McCandless more than likely was suffering from
mental illness and didn’t have to end his life the way he did. The fact that he chose
Alaska’s wildlands to do it in speaks more to the fact that it makes a good story than to
the fact that McCandless was heroic or somehow extraordinary. In the end, he was sadly
ordinary in his disrespect for the land, the animals, the history, and the self-sufficiency
ethos of Alaska, the Last Frontier.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
he didnt have more than the basics.. it sounds like he simply had no idea what he was doing and lived through that winter by chance and good luck.
Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective
by Peter Christian
Both Chris McCandless and I arrived in Alaska in 1992. We both came to Alaska from the area around Washington, D.C. We were both about the same age and had a similar idea in mind; to live a free life in the Alaska wild. Fourteen years later Chris McCandless is dead and I am living the dream I set out to win for myself. What made the difference in these two outcomes?
There was nothing heroic or even mysterious about what Chris McCandless did in April 1992. Like many Alaskans, I read Jon Krakauer’s book “Into the Wild” when it first came out and finished it thinking, “why does this guy rate an entire book?” The fact that Krakauer is a great outdoor writer and philosopher is the bright spot and it makes a great read, but McCandless was not something special.
As a park ranger both at Denali National Park, very near where McCandless died, and now at Gates of the Arctic National Park, even more remote and wild than Denali, I am exposed continually to what I will call the “McCandless Phenomenon.” People, nearly always young men, come to Alaska to challenge themselves against an unforgiving wilderness landscape where convenience of access and possibility of rescue are
practically no nexistent. I know the personality type because I was one of those young men.
In fact, Alaska is populated with people who are either running away from something or seeking themselves in America’s last frontier. It is a place very much like the frontier of the Old West where you can come to and reinvent yourself. In reality, most people who make it as far as Alaska never get past the cities of Fairbanks and Anchorage because access is so difficult and expensive (usually by airplane), travel is so hard, the terrain is challenging, the bears are real, and so on.
A very few competent and skillful people make a successful go at living a free life in the wild, build a home in the mountains, raise their children there and eventually come back with good stories and happy endings. A greater number give it a try, realize it is neither easy nor romantic, just damn hard work, and quickly give up and return to town with their tails between their legs, but alive and the wiser for it.
Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take
the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and
either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other
rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of
government money on helicopters and overtime.
When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did
wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent
very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail
without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his
predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful. Consider where
he died. An abandoned bus. How did it get there? On a trail. If the bus could get into
the place where it died, why couldn’t McCandless get out of the place where he died?
The fact that he had to live in an old bus in the first place tells you a lot. Why didn’t he
have an adequate shelter from the beginning? What would he have done if he hadn’t
found the bus? A bag of rice and a sleeping bag do not constitute adequate gear and
provisions for a long stay in the wilderness.
No experienced backcountry person would travel during the month of April. It is a time
of transition from winter’s frozen rivers and hard packed snow with good traveling
conditions into spring’s quagmire of mud and raging waters where even small creeks
become impassible. Hungry bears come out of their dens with just one thing in mind—
eating.
Furthermore, Chris McCandless poached a moose and then wasted it. He killed a
magnificent animal superbly conditioned to survive the rigors of the Alaskan wild then,
inexperienced in how to preserve meat without refrigeration (the Eskimos and Indians do
it to this day), he watched 1500 pounds of meat rot away in front of him. He’s lucky the
stench didn’t bring a grizzly bear to end his suffering earlier. And in the end, the moose
died for nothing.
So what made the difference between McCandless and I fourteen years ago? Why am I
alive and he is dead? Essentially, Chris McCandless committed suicide while I
apprenticed myself to a career and a life that I wanted more badly than I can possibly
describe in so short an essay. In the end I believe that the difference between us was that
I wanted to live and Chris McCandless wanted to die (whether he realized it or not). The
fact that he died in a compelling way doesn’t change that outcome. He might have made
it work if he had respected the wilderness he was purported to have loved. But it is my
belief that surviving in the wilderness is not what he had in mind.
I did not start this essay to trash poor Chris McCandless. Not intentionally. It is sad that
the boy had to die. The tragedy is that McCandless more than likely was suffering from
mental illness and didn’t have to end his life the way he did. The fact that he chose
Alaska’s wildlands to do it in speaks more to the fact that it makes a good story than to
the fact that McCandless was heroic or somehow extraordinary. In the end, he was sadly
ordinary in his disrespect for the land, the animals, the history, and the self-sufficiency
ethos of Alaska, the Last Frontier.
that's his perspective and he's every right to believe so ... but like most of us - he makes assumptions as well - for instance, i've read that he indeed have a map ... so, maybe he knew of the bus ... i'm not sure ...
what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
No, he entered the wilderness in early spring and tried to leave a few months later. Of course, every stream and river becomes like the amazon during runoff in Alaska. So no, he didn't survive a winter. I think some people, like that park ranger, like to feel superior to those who died doing something a bit crazy. Because they are still alive, they are free to insult the dead. I guarantee this ranger never attempted anything like what Chris did, but he sure feels smug about his own existence. Chrisknowingly put himself in a situation where he was over his head to see if he could make it, and with the exception of not understanding the rivers and streams, he did just fine. Of course, that one mistake wound up costing him his life. Just about anyone could go live in that bus during the same time of year that Chris did if they packed in all the right gear and food. Chris was attempting something more difficult, more primal than that.
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I haven't gotten into a one-on-one fight with a bear or done anything "radical" in my life. But I'm pretty happy with where I am right now and sure that the (near) future will be throwing some pretty big changes and decicion-makings (and adventures) my way. Life is what you make of it.
Eh, if you (or anyone) read through all of my ramblings.. Just.. Do as you please, as long as it's legal. :P
You've never fought a bear, eMMI?!? Man, that's pretty common in my neck of the woods. Fought two just last week. Oh, and the whole "legal" thing is kind of a slippery slope in my mind.
Only a teddybear, but those don't count, do they? :think:
I did consider leaving out the "legal" bit. Mainly I'm referring to stuff like.. Manslaughter. Yeah, that should be pretty much avoided at all cost.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
[that's his perspective and he's every right to believe so ... but like most of us - he makes assumptions as well - for instance, i've read that he indeed have a map ... so, maybe he knew of the bus ... i'm not sure ...
what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
map or no map.. you're arguing against the perspective of a fully trained professional... a bit like me arguing that sugar is good for your teeth with a dentist....
that park ranger called him irresponsible, reckless, ignorant and definitely untrained...
i see others have pointed out the non-winter survival aspect also.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Ironically, it was probably the last kind gesture of a stranger that killed Chris. Had that last guy to give him a ride not given him waterproof boots, Chris would have made it about 2 hours in the wild before tramping out of there with soggy frozen feet. Of course, he may have simply found the first pair of boots he could and then gone right back out.
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Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
you're right ... i just checked the date he went in - i thought he went in the winter (probably based on the snow i saw in the movie) ... again - it's been a while since i read the book ...
still - it takes some skill to survive at the time he was there ...
Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
you're right ... i just checked the date he went in - i thought he went in the winter (probably based on the snow i saw in the movie) ... again - it's been a while since i read the book ...
still - it takes some skill to survive at the time he was there ...
and our resident board outdoor specialist would suggest otherwise...
Just about anyone could go live in that bus during the same time of year that Chris did if they packed in all the right gear and food.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
[that's his perspective and he's every right to believe so ... but like most of us - he makes assumptions as well - for instance, i've read that he indeed have a map ... so, maybe he knew of the bus ... i'm not sure ...
what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
map or no map.. you're arguing against the perspective of a fully trained professional... a bit like me arguing that sugar is good for your teeth with a dentist....
that park ranger called him irresponsible, reckless, ignorant and definitely untrained...
i see others have pointed out the non-winter survival aspect also.
Yeah he was reckless and a bit irresponsible, but don't get me started on Park Rangers and how qualified they tend to be. Some of the most useless, outdoor ignorant people I have met are park rangers. They tend to think they're pretty awesome though.
Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.
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map or no map.. you're arguing against the perspective of a fully trained professional... a bit like me arguing that sugar is good for your teeth with a dentist....
that park ranger called him irresponsible, reckless, ignorant and definitely untrained...
i see others have pointed out the non-winter survival aspect also.
but that's just one perspective ... and again - under some assumptions ... i'm not saying his points aren't valid - just simply that is his opinion ... he survived from april to august ... i don't think you can do that on luck alone ...
Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
you're right ... i just checked the date he went in - i thought he went in the winter (probably based on the snow i saw in the movie) ... again - it's been a while since i read the book ...
still - it takes some skill to survive at the time he was there ...
and our resident board outdoor specialist would suggest otherwise...
Just about anyone could go live in that bus during the same time of year that Chris did if they packed in all the right gear and food.
What does anyone need to survive? Break it down to the basics. He had shelter, although a bus is kind of cheating, he had enough food to get started and give him time to find more, and he had water. That's all you need, folks. It's the isolation that most people can't handle, but yes, most of you could survive in that same spot with the right gear and food. You wouldn't enjoy it, but you could survive.
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what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
No, he entered the wilderness in early spring and tried to leave a few months later. Of course, every stream and river becomes like the amazon during runoff in Alaska. So no, he didn't survive a winter. I think some people, like that park ranger, like to feel superior to those who died doing something a bit crazy. Because they are still alive, they are free to insult the dead. I guarantee this ranger never attempted anything like what Chris did, but he sure feels smug about his own existence. Chrisknowingly put himself in a situation where he was over his head to see if he could make it, and with the exception of not understanding the rivers and streams, he did just fine. Of course, that one mistake wound up costing him his life. Just about anyone could go live in that bus during the same time of year that Chris did if they packed in all the right gear and food. Chris was attempting something more difficult, more primal than that.
My point in the last post was that he didn't survive any Alaskan winters, nothing more.
I completely get your point of view on all of this, we just don't necessarily agree on specifics. I have no problem with what he did overall and I somewhat admire his adventurous spirit. I completely understand why the story is so fascinating.
What I have a problem with is that he was completely unprepared for Alaska and him putting his family through hell. You see this as him challenging himself and trying to live primitively and understandable while I see this as idiotic and rude.
Are you referring to his mistake as the seed that Krakauer claims killed him or the fact he had no idea how to preserve the Moose meat? I am pretty sure it is laid out everywhere else besides the book and movie that he died of starvation and not this seed or whatever the hell it was.
I plan on seeing America in the near future as well; I just plan on getting place to place via Amtrak.
Edit: I actually think you are referring to the fact he couldnt get out as his mistake which makes sense.
What does anyone need to survive? Break it down to the basics. He had shelter, although a bus is kind of cheating, he had enough food to get started and give him time to find more, and he had water. That's all you need, folks. It's the isolation that most people can't handle, but yes, most of you could survive in that same spot with the right gear and food. You wouldn't enjoy it, but you could survive.
And from all this it seems he didn't do all that well. He lived 113 days out there with shelter, rice, squirrel and birds and died from starvation less than 4 months later.
Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.
And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.
My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)
Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.
Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.
And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.
That is the life costing mistake that I'm talking about and yes, fairly ignorant. People make mistakes, but funny how people really want to condemn Chris for his. Guess what, he's the one who had to starve to death, not you. I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska.
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My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)
Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.
Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.
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Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.
And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.
That is the life costing mistake that I'm talking about and yes, fairly ignorant. People make mistakes, but funny how people really want to condemn Chris for his. Guess what, he's the one who had to starve to death, not you. I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska.
I hear you, people make mistakes and he made a few that he shouldn't have if he had prepared correctly and he and his family are the ones that paid for it. I don't feel any smarter than Chris with regards to this and while I enjoy the outdoors and camping, I wouldn't survive 1 week up there.
The only way I am fucking up my life is probably spending too much time arguing about Chris McCandless on the Pearl Jam message board and not getting my work done right now. On that note...
My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)
Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.
Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.
Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.
I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.
My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)
Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.
Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.
Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.
I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.
I'm not sure how you arrived at most of that, but I will say this, wolves don't eat people. Even that idiot Chris probably knew that.
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Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.
Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.
I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.
I'm not sure how you arrived at most of that, but I will say this, wolves don't eat people. Even that idiot Chris probably knew that.
Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."
So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.
Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."
So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.
What I'm saying is that it is easy to focus on the mistakes of others and the choices they make. Chris made a bold choice and paid for it with his life. Others choose to smoke themselves to death, or eat themselves to death, or drive drunk, or wallow in a dark basement with crippling mental depression until they blow their own heads off, so how about we point out their obvious mistakes and rake them over the coals for it. I'm sure that really helps in the end. How about it? Anyone care to let me know how a loved one might have contibuted to their own unhappiness or death? Because I'm gonna remind you about it... often. Seems like the classy thing to do.
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You've never fought a bear, eMMI?!? Man, that's pretty common in my neck of the woods. Fought two just last week. Oh, and the whole "legal" thing is kind of a slippery slope in my mind.
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He was really killed by Wendigo!
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i believe autopsies showed confirmed that
he didnt have more than the basics.. it sounds like he simply had no idea what he was doing and lived through that winter by chance and good luck.
Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective
by Peter Christian
Both Chris McCandless and I arrived in Alaska in 1992. We both came to Alaska from the area around Washington, D.C. We were both about the same age and had a similar idea in mind; to live a free life in the Alaska wild. Fourteen years later Chris McCandless is dead and I am living the dream I set out to win for myself. What made the difference in these two outcomes?
There was nothing heroic or even mysterious about what Chris McCandless did in April 1992. Like many Alaskans, I read Jon Krakauer’s book “Into the Wild” when it first came out and finished it thinking, “why does this guy rate an entire book?” The fact that Krakauer is a great outdoor writer and philosopher is the bright spot and it makes a great read, but McCandless was not something special.
As a park ranger both at Denali National Park, very near where McCandless died, and now at Gates of the Arctic National Park, even more remote and wild than Denali, I am exposed continually to what I will call the “McCandless Phenomenon.” People, nearly always young men, come to Alaska to challenge themselves against an unforgiving wilderness landscape where convenience of access and possibility of rescue are
practically no nexistent. I know the personality type because I was one of those young men.
In fact, Alaska is populated with people who are either running away from something or seeking themselves in America’s last frontier. It is a place very much like the frontier of the Old West where you can come to and reinvent yourself. In reality, most people who make it as far as Alaska never get past the cities of Fairbanks and Anchorage because access is so difficult and expensive (usually by airplane), travel is so hard, the terrain is challenging, the bears are real, and so on.
A very few competent and skillful people make a successful go at living a free life in the wild, build a home in the mountains, raise their children there and eventually come back with good stories and happy endings. A greater number give it a try, realize it is neither easy nor romantic, just damn hard work, and quickly give up and return to town with their tails between their legs, but alive and the wiser for it.
Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take
the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and
either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other
rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of
government money on helicopters and overtime.
When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did
wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent
very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail
without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his
predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful. Consider where
he died. An abandoned bus. How did it get there? On a trail. If the bus could get into
the place where it died, why couldn’t McCandless get out of the place where he died?
The fact that he had to live in an old bus in the first place tells you a lot. Why didn’t he
have an adequate shelter from the beginning? What would he have done if he hadn’t
found the bus? A bag of rice and a sleeping bag do not constitute adequate gear and
provisions for a long stay in the wilderness.
No experienced backcountry person would travel during the month of April. It is a time
of transition from winter’s frozen rivers and hard packed snow with good traveling
conditions into spring’s quagmire of mud and raging waters where even small creeks
become impassible. Hungry bears come out of their dens with just one thing in mind—
eating.
Furthermore, Chris McCandless poached a moose and then wasted it. He killed a
magnificent animal superbly conditioned to survive the rigors of the Alaskan wild then,
inexperienced in how to preserve meat without refrigeration (the Eskimos and Indians do
it to this day), he watched 1500 pounds of meat rot away in front of him. He’s lucky the
stench didn’t bring a grizzly bear to end his suffering earlier. And in the end, the moose
died for nothing.
So what made the difference between McCandless and I fourteen years ago? Why am I
alive and he is dead? Essentially, Chris McCandless committed suicide while I
apprenticed myself to a career and a life that I wanted more badly than I can possibly
describe in so short an essay. In the end I believe that the difference between us was that
I wanted to live and Chris McCandless wanted to die (whether he realized it or not). The
fact that he died in a compelling way doesn’t change that outcome. He might have made
it work if he had respected the wilderness he was purported to have loved. But it is my
belief that surviving in the wilderness is not what he had in mind.
I did not start this essay to trash poor Chris McCandless. Not intentionally. It is sad that
the boy had to die. The tragedy is that McCandless more than likely was suffering from
mental illness and didn’t have to end his life the way he did. The fact that he chose
Alaska’s wildlands to do it in speaks more to the fact that it makes a good story than to
the fact that McCandless was heroic or somehow extraordinary. In the end, he was sadly
ordinary in his disrespect for the land, the animals, the history, and the self-sufficiency
ethos of Alaska, the Last Frontier.
actually you're right ... it's been a while since i read the book and the articles associated with it ...
that's his perspective and he's every right to believe so ... but like most of us - he makes assumptions as well - for instance, i've read that he indeed have a map ... so, maybe he knew of the bus ... i'm not sure ...
what i do know tho is that he survived an entire winter in alaska - if the author wants to attribute that to sheer luck - that's his choice ... but i don't know many people that could survive a winter in alaska without the basic survival skills required ...
Unless Alaska has somehow magically switched from the Northern to Southern Hemisphere, I am pretty sure he didn't survive any Alaskan winters.
No, he entered the wilderness in early spring and tried to leave a few months later. Of course, every stream and river becomes like the amazon during runoff in Alaska. So no, he didn't survive a winter. I think some people, like that park ranger, like to feel superior to those who died doing something a bit crazy. Because they are still alive, they are free to insult the dead. I guarantee this ranger never attempted anything like what Chris did, but he sure feels smug about his own existence. Chrisknowingly put himself in a situation where he was over his head to see if he could make it, and with the exception of not understanding the rivers and streams, he did just fine. Of course, that one mistake wound up costing him his life. Just about anyone could go live in that bus during the same time of year that Chris did if they packed in all the right gear and food. Chris was attempting something more difficult, more primal than that.
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Only a teddybear, but those don't count, do they? :think:
I did consider leaving out the "legal" bit. Mainly I'm referring to stuff like.. Manslaughter. Yeah, that should be pretty much avoided at all cost.
map or no map.. you're arguing against the perspective of a fully trained professional... a bit like me arguing that sugar is good for your teeth with a dentist....
that park ranger called him irresponsible, reckless, ignorant and definitely untrained...
i see others have pointed out the non-winter survival aspect also.
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you're right ... i just checked the date he went in - i thought he went in the winter (probably based on the snow i saw in the movie) ... again - it's been a while since i read the book ...
still - it takes some skill to survive at the time he was there ...
and our resident board outdoor specialist would suggest otherwise...
Yeah he was reckless and a bit irresponsible, but don't get me started on Park Rangers and how qualified they tend to be. Some of the most useless, outdoor ignorant people I have met are park rangers. They tend to think they're pretty awesome though.
Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.
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but that's just one perspective ... and again - under some assumptions ... i'm not saying his points aren't valid - just simply that is his opinion ... he survived from april to august ... i don't think you can do that on luck alone ...
What does anyone need to survive? Break it down to the basics. He had shelter, although a bus is kind of cheating, he had enough food to get started and give him time to find more, and he had water. That's all you need, folks. It's the isolation that most people can't handle, but yes, most of you could survive in that same spot with the right gear and food. You wouldn't enjoy it, but you could survive.
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My point in the last post was that he didn't survive any Alaskan winters, nothing more.
I completely get your point of view on all of this, we just don't necessarily agree on specifics. I have no problem with what he did overall and I somewhat admire his adventurous spirit. I completely understand why the story is so fascinating.
What I have a problem with is that he was completely unprepared for Alaska and him putting his family through hell. You see this as him challenging himself and trying to live primitively and understandable while I see this as idiotic and rude.
Are you referring to his mistake as the seed that Krakauer claims killed him or the fact he had no idea how to preserve the Moose meat? I am pretty sure it is laid out everywhere else besides the book and movie that he died of starvation and not this seed or whatever the hell it was.
I plan on seeing America in the near future as well; I just plan on getting place to place via Amtrak.
Edit: I actually think you are referring to the fact he couldnt get out as his mistake which makes sense.
And from all this it seems he didn't do all that well. He lived 113 days out there with shelter, rice, squirrel and birds and died from starvation less than 4 months later.
And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.
My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)
Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.
That is the life costing mistake that I'm talking about and yes, fairly ignorant. People make mistakes, but funny how people really want to condemn Chris for his. Guess what, he's the one who had to starve to death, not you. I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska.
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Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.
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I hear you, people make mistakes and he made a few that he shouldn't have if he had prepared correctly and he and his family are the ones that paid for it. I don't feel any smarter than Chris with regards to this and while I enjoy the outdoors and camping, I wouldn't survive 1 week up there.
The only way I am fucking up my life is probably spending too much time arguing about Chris McCandless on the Pearl Jam message board and not getting my work done right now. On that note...
Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.
I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.
I'm not sure how you arrived at most of that, but I will say this, wolves don't eat people. Even that idiot Chris probably knew that.
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Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."
So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.
What I'm saying is that it is easy to focus on the mistakes of others and the choices they make. Chris made a bold choice and paid for it with his life. Others choose to smoke themselves to death, or eat themselves to death, or drive drunk, or wallow in a dark basement with crippling mental depression until they blow their own heads off, so how about we point out their obvious mistakes and rake them over the coals for it. I'm sure that really helps in the end. How about it? Anyone care to let me know how a loved one might have contibuted to their own unhappiness or death? Because I'm gonna remind you about it... often. Seems like the classy thing to do.
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