PLEDGE CONTROVERSY in School

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Comments

  • Heatherj43
    Heatherj43 Posts: 1,254
    edited February 2010
    unsung wrote:
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.
    I can't believe you would say that. This country is based on certain tenets that we all treasure and many give their lives for, then you come along with this statement.
    If you don't want to stand for the pledge of allegience, then you don't have to...wonderful country, eh? `

    It sounds like you are the one who someone should be saying, if you don't like it, then leave!

    No one in this country is FORCED to do this...and should not be berated, especially a kid!!!
    Post edited by Heatherj43 on
    Save room for dessert!
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    aerial wrote:
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement she needs to take the shit that comes with it,

    Okay let me Rephrase that for ya....
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement or have bold ideas, she needs to take the shit that comes with it

    aren't you the one always whining about being called a teabagger...? I guess some can't take the shit... :lol:
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    please stand with me, I mean you must stand with me...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGXyMdH9 ... re=related
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,310
    Heatherj43 wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.
    I can't believe you would say that. This country is based on certain tenets that we all treasure and many give their lives for, then you come along with this statement.
    If you don't want to stand for the pledge of allegience, then you don't have to...wonderful country, eh? `

    It sounds like you are the one who someone should be saying, if you don't like it, then leave!

    No one in this country is FORCED to do this...and should not be berated, especially a kid!!!
    i agree with you completely.

    in my experience, what unsung said is the same thing these patriots say when they have lost the argument. instead of conceding the point they tell you to leave the country. i have seen that a thousand times on this board since the beginning of the iraq war.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    unsung wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other.

    What a crock of shit.

    Edit: Only an American would say such a thing.

    And how do you KNOW that America is 'the best country on the planet?'

    What do you mean by 'Best'?

    Have you been to every other country on the planet?

    You think someone born in Sweden or Tahiti thinks America is 'the best country on the planet?'

    Seriously, stop with this juvenile, chest-beating crap already. There aren't just Americans on this message board. And those of us 'Non-Americans' find this kind of attitude pretty pathetic and irritating.


    Yeah Sweden and Tahiti are just being flooded with immigrants trying to make lives better for their families.

    Every country in Europe has a constant influx of immigrants trying to make lives better for their families. You think the U.S is the only wealthy country in the world?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Smellyman wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Really?

    So the German, Irish, Italian, and whatever else waves of people just decided coming to the USA was easier than going someplace else?

    did we just go back in time 80 years?

    Make that 150 years.
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    aerial wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    This is why teachers have such problem with kids in class rooms....kids want to act as if they have the same rights adults have....a more appropriate way to handle this would be for the child to do as she was told (show respect)....go home tell her parents and have them write a note or go to the school to speak with the teacher....
    ...
    So.. are you the authority of what kids (and parents) should do?
    One of them ;)
    Why? You don't think kids should learn respect for adults?

    Some adults don't deserve respect just because they are an adult. Some adults are incapable of handling themselves as adults and act more childish than some children. We are not in an authoritarian society where respect is deserved just because of your age.

    I know many adults who are pretty fucking irresponsible and I didn't respect them back when I was a kid and I still don't respect them now that I'm an adult.
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    unsung wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
    ...
    If that teacher didn't react that way... no lawsuit. No news story... and this thread would not exist.

    Maybe she was removed from the class because her actions were disruptive and a distraction to the rest of the students. We weren't there I'm guessing there is more to the story.

    I'm guessing the slander and name calling done by the "adult" in this situation was far more disruptive than the one student not pledging her allegiance to the flag. If you read the story you might have noticed that the other students started making fun of her only after the "adult" did.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    this teacher was way over the line in this situation...she could have handled that in a much more adult and much more professional manner...she should be suspended, and if it was my child i would not sue, initially i would demand her resignation, and if she does not give it to me i would contact an attorney and i would not relent until i had satisfaction...which for me would be a sincere apology to my daughter from the teacher, the principal, and the school board that will allow that teacher to stay employed...it is not the responsibility of the teacher to discipline someone else's child and it is not her responsibility to berate and embarrass her in front of her peers...

    i think pledging allegiance is an antiquated way of trying to indoctrinate the kids...if this were my daughter i would respect her decision and defend her and that is final. what parent would not? patriotism is overrated, and it says nothing of your character. did you ever notice that the people that claim to be the biggest patriots tend to be a little dim-witted?? why blindly pledge allegiance to something that is as intangible as a country or government, or a god?? when you "pledge allegiance to the flag" you pledge allegiance to everything that flag represents both good and bad, and i will not forsake my principles by pledging allegiance to something that has done so many questionable things the last 10 years, from needless wars to human rights abuses, to allowing the corporate abuses and destruction of our environment. i can't go along with it...i just can't...

    during the pledge i stand, but i no longer place my hand over my heart, nor do i say the words. its just my choice. same way with the anthem. to me nationalism is a fucking stupid and divisive thing. please refer to my signature for further evidence of my thoughts on patriotism and nationalism...i personally don't give a shit if people stand or sit during the pledge, i don't care if they take their hats off during the anthem or sit down...none of it matters to me. it has no bearing on my life. if people are going to get all worked up over what people do during the pledge or anthem then they have way too much time on their hands. i find it very funny that people will get all upset and tell people like me to leave the country...as if they have some sort of superpatriot superpower that can actually make me leave...some people just need to chill....
    You look up to and quote Emma Goldman who was involved in an attempted murder . . . yet you put down a teacher for trying to keep order in her class. She is there to teach and the pledge and patriotism is one thing the school teaches . . . Funny how some on here have a problem with learning patriotism and the pledge in school . . . but have no problem with the school teaching sex to kids ... . . can you guys see why maybe the kids are so screwed up these days?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    You look up to and quote Emma Goldman who was involved in an attempted murder . . . yet you put down a teacher for trying to keep order in her class. She is there to teach and the pledge and patriotism is one thing the school teaches . . . Funny how some on here have a problem with learning patriotism and the pledge in school . . . but have no problem with the school teaching sex to kids ... . . can you guys see why maybe the kids are so screwed up these days?
    ...
    Then... what is the role of the Parent? Shouldn't the parent be the one who explains 'Patriotism' to thier kid... since 'Patriotism' is a relative perspective?
    And the same thing goes for Sex Education. The Schools have to teach Sex Education because the parents are obviously doing a terrible job about it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    aerial wrote:
    You look up to and quote Emma Goldman who was involved in an attempted murder . . . yet you put down a teacher for trying to keep order in her class. She is there to teach and the pledge and patriotism is one thing the school teaches . . . Funny how some on here have a problem with learning patriotism and the pledge in school . . . but have no problem with the school teaching sex to kids ... . . can you guys see why maybe the kids are so screwed up these days?

    Except that teacher did nothing, NOTHING at all to teach her students about patriotism.

    g under p wrote:
    If you think that's such a bright idea humilliating a 13 year old teenager well you won't have a job for very long. Do you love being a bully to a teenager?

    I used to teach some years ago and if in the same situation I would NEVER had berated the child at all especially in front of the class. You'll lose your classroom in the end and you have an obligation to ALL of your students. As a teacher the last thing you want is to lose the focus as to why you are there and that is to teach.

    I would speak to that child one on one after class to find out why she chose to not stand during the pledge. Why was she so uncomfortable to do so? Then depending on what she said I would take that information and speak to the parents. Then later one of the measures I would consider to write a paper about why do we say the pledge and what does it mean to you. instead of making a controversy out of this through humiliation use it to be a learning process.

    peace

    The above is how a teacher should have handled the situation. It would've been the perfect chance to capitalize on something to teach the students much like g under p said he would do it. g under p, you seem like you were a fucking awesome teacher because your tactics actually seem to be to teach.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    The parents should be teaching their children how to show respect . If there is a problem then the adults will take care of it..........
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    "learning" Patriotism. lol

    It shouldn't be learned. It should be earned.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Saying the Pledge of Allegiance and singing the National Anthem is showing your support for your country....just as they do in school at games and they wear the school colors...maybe have a school song they sing.....It’s all a learning process kids need
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    aerial wrote:
    Funny how some on here have a problem with learning patriotism and the pledge in school . . . but have no problem with the school teaching sex to kids

    :roll:
    can you guys see why maybe the kids are so screwed up these days?

    The pledge and sex ed have absolutely nothing to do with why kids are so screwed up these days.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,310
    aerial wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    this teacher was way over the line in this situation...she could have handled that in a much more adult and much more professional manner...she should be suspended, and if it was my child i would not sue, initially i would demand her resignation, and if she does not give it to me i would contact an attorney and i would not relent until i had satisfaction...which for me would be a sincere apology to my daughter from the teacher, the principal, and the school board that will allow that teacher to stay employed...it is not the responsibility of the teacher to discipline someone else's child and it is not her responsibility to berate and embarrass her in front of her peers...

    i think pledging allegiance is an antiquated way of trying to indoctrinate the kids...if this were my daughter i would respect her decision and defend her and that is final. what parent would not? patriotism is overrated, and it says nothing of your character. did you ever notice that the people that claim to be the biggest patriots tend to be a little dim-witted?? why blindly pledge allegiance to something that is as intangible as a country or government, or a god?? when you "pledge allegiance to the flag" you pledge allegiance to everything that flag represents both good and bad, and i will not forsake my principles by pledging allegiance to something that has done so many questionable things the last 10 years, from needless wars to human rights abuses, to allowing the corporate abuses and destruction of our environment. i can't go along with it...i just can't...

    during the pledge i stand, but i no longer place my hand over my heart, nor do i say the words. its just my choice. same way with the anthem. to me nationalism is a fucking stupid and divisive thing. please refer to my signature for further evidence of my thoughts on patriotism and nationalism...i personally don't give a shit if people stand or sit during the pledge, i don't care if they take their hats off during the anthem or sit down...none of it matters to me. it has no bearing on my life. if people are going to get all worked up over what people do during the pledge or anthem then they have way too much time on their hands. i find it very funny that people will get all upset and tell people like me to leave the country...as if they have some sort of superpatriot superpower that can actually make me leave...some people just need to chill....
    You look up to and quote Emma Goldman who was involved in an attempted murder . . . yet you put down a teacher for trying to keep order in her class. She is there to teach and the pledge and patriotism is one thing the school teaches . . . Funny how some on here have a problem with learning patriotism and the pledge in school . . . but have no problem with the school teaching sex to kids ... . . can you guys see why maybe the kids are so screwed up these days?
    i do not look up to emma goldman, i agree with her views on several topics, most notably patriotism, but that does not mean that i look up to her. i directed people's attention to the sig because i was too lazy to type a long drawn out explanation and her quote summed it up nicely for me...

    i put down the teacher for ridiculing the child that chose to sit down. that is a big difference aerial. did you see the pile-on from her peers that ensued??? that teacher was not trying to keep order and you know it...she is not there to teach patriotism, she is there to teach them some stupid sentence that could just as easily be taught at home, like the lord's prayer or something.. to me the pledge is a waste of time and only serves to indoctrinate the kids. weren't you all up in arms that obama was going to give the kids a pep talk??

    i am all in favor of teaching sex education in school..it is part of biology and if it is not being taught at home it needs to be taught somewhere...

    i hardly think that teaching patriotism and not teaching sex ed in school would make kids any less screwed up....patriotism is less important than sex education and the emphasis in school should reflect that...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • John Briggs 2008
    John Briggs 2008 Posts: 1,024
    The world isn't like when us older folks went to school. It's a PC world. By all means that student had a right to sit it out if she wanted. Some how an adult educator berates and belittles the very people she or he is responsible for educating and molding for social integration? Mind you, teachers don't have it fucking easy at all. They take on way more responsibility than any one person in a public education system should but there is just no excuse for it today. When I was a kid they would have swatted the snot out of that girl. And I remember hating school for it's oppressive and abusive ways. These kids have been granted realistic rights without others imposing there personal opinion and beliefs on them and they are treated like this by an adult.

    Part of me says this kid and kids in general are treated to softly but another part of me says that they deserve the civilized structure and environment that someone my age was not allowed. :roll: Educating in morals and a sense of national pride is not wrong but an educator has a right to treat there students with respect and honor there more than acceptable right to not be forced to observe something against there personal beliefs. I am 50/50 on this one though in the end. I see it on both sides.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    this teacher was way over the line in this situation...she could have handled that in a much more adult and much more professional manner...she should be suspended, and if it was my child i would not sue, initially i would demand her resignation, and if she does not give it to me i would contact an attorney and i would not relent until i had satisfaction...which for me would be a sincere apology to my daughter from the teacher, the principal, and the school board that will allow that teacher to stay employed...it is not the responsibility of the teacher to discipline someone else's child and it is not her responsibility to berate and embarrass her in front of her peers...

    i think pledging allegiance is an antiquated way of trying to indoctrinate the kids...if this were my daughter i would respect her decision and defend her and that is final. what parent would not? patriotism is overrated, and it says nothing of your character. did you ever notice that the people that claim to be the biggest patriots tend to be a little dim-witted?? why blindly pledge allegiance to something that is as intangible as a country or government, or a god?? when you "pledge allegiance to the flag" you pledge allegiance to everything that flag represents both good and bad, and i will not forsake my principles by pledging allegiance to something that has done so many questionable things the last 10 years, from needless wars to human rights abuses, to allowing the corporate abuses and destruction of our environment. i can't go along with it...i just can't...

    during the pledge i stand, but i no longer place my hand over my heart, nor do i say the words. its just my choice. same way with the anthem. to me nationalism is a fucking stupid and divisive thing. please refer to my signature for further evidence of my thoughts on patriotism and nationalism...i personally don't give a shit if people stand or sit during the pledge, i don't care if they take their hats off during the anthem or sit down...none of it matters to me. it has no bearing on my life. if people are going to get all worked up over what people do during the pledge or anthem then they have way too much time on their hands. i find it very funny that people will get all upset and tell people like me to leave the country...as if they have some sort of superpatriot superpower that can actually make me leave...some people just need to chill....
    You look up to and quote Emma Goldman who was involved in an attempted murder . . . yet you put down a teacher for trying to keep order in her class. She is there to teach and the pledge and patriotism is one thing the school teaches . . . Funny how some on here have a problem with learning patriotism and the pledge in school . . . but have no problem with the school teaching sex to kids ... . . can you guys see why maybe the kids are so screwed up these days?
    i do not look up to emma goldman, i agree with her views on several topics, most notably patriotism, but that does not mean that i look up to her. i directed people's attention to the sig because i was too lazy to type a long drawn out explanation and her quote summed it up nicely for me...

    i put down the teacher for ridiculing the child that chose to sit down. that is a big difference aerial. did you see the pile-on from her peers that ensued??? that teacher was not trying to keep order and you know it...she is not there to teach patriotism, she is there to teach them some stupid sentence that could just as easily be taught at home, like the lord's prayer or something.. to me the pledge is a waste of time and only serves to indoctrinate the kids. weren't you all up in arms that obama was going to give the kids a pep talk??

    i am all in favor of teaching sex education in school..it is part of biology and if it is not being taught at home it needs to be taught somewhere...

    i hardly think that teaching patriotism and not teaching sex ed in school would make kids any less screwed up....patriotism is less important than sex education and the emphasis in school should reflect that...
    That’s is my point...Sex is okay...Patriotism is bad........that’s how a 13 year old will see it
    “go ahead and take that sex class Susie, but I better not catch you in History”!
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    aerial wrote:
    That’s is my point...Sex is okay...Patriotism is bad........that’s how a 13 year old will see it
    “go ahead and take that sex class Susie, but I better not catch you in History”!

    you really know how to be dramatic....

    now we are not teaching history?

    you're all over the place man
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,310
    aerial wrote:
    That’s is my point...Sex is okay...Patriotism is bad........that’s how a 13 year old will see it
    “go ahead and take that sex class Susie, but I better not catch you in History”!

    no, sex is a part of biology and is necessary to be learned in school so the kids can get accurate info about pregnancy, stds, birth control, and most importantly the biology and physiology of it. a parent saying "sex is bad, don't do it" is not teaching them a damn thing, so they have to learn it somewhere, and learning it in school is better than learning it from their dumbass know-nothing teenage friends...

    patriotism is not bad, but the idea of thinking that your country is heaps better than all the rest of the countries is a dangerous thing. and it is arrogant...patriotism is also NOT history, it is an overinflated sense of pride in the country that you happen to have been fortunate or unfortunate enough to be born into...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."

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