PLEDGE CONTROVERSY in School

unsung

So I'm curious. How do you people discipline your children when they do something wrong? Let's say little Billy goes over to the neighbors house and takes a rock and throws it at the car and chips the windshield. How do you handle it?

Cosmo

unsung wrote:

So I'm curious. How do you people discipline your children when they do something wrong? Let's say little Billy goes over to the neighbors house and takes a rock and throws it at the car and chips the windshield. How do you handle it?

...
Is little Billy my kid? Was it his intent to damage the car or was it an errant throw?
Because i would handle it differently if he were my kid... or if he were some kid in the neighborhood.
My kid? I would dicipline him... as his parent. Hold him responsible for his actions and make him apologise to the neighbor for his act and make him pay me back for the cost of the windshield by limiting his free time after school by helping me clean out and organize that mess of a garage of mine and any other chores that needed to be done around the house in leiu of his allowance. I would also make him wash the neighbor's car a couple of times.
Someone else's kid? Take him to his parent's place and tell them what the cost of replacing the windshield would be. It would be up to his parents to decide what to do about it but, I'm not paying for a new windshield... they are.

Cosmo

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I always thought that when you went to school the teachers were considered your "parents" for the 8 or so hours. Meaning you would respect them the same way you would your parents.

...
Respect for the parent is different from the respect of the teacher. The teacher is not the parents of the kids. They are there to teach them the ciriculum of the school. And yes, they are authority figures and the kids need to respect that. Their dicipline is the grading of the kid based upon his/her ability to learn the class lessons (History, Math, Reading, etc...).
I am guessing that different teachers would have handled this situation differently... perhaps, ignoring the girl sitting through the Pledge of Alligence and not making a Federal case about it... but, holding her after class and asking WHY she sat and explained to her about citizenship and what the pledge was meant to stand for.
Maybe.

Cosmo

mb262200 wrote:

For fuck sakes man..... I DIDN"T put the kids at the front of the bus and pull their pants down.

Is there some deep lying emotions about Odd Todd that you would like to get off your chest?

...
Don't take it so seriously. I'm sure you're not creepy... you seem like a descent, stand-up guy... blue collar Union man, beer and baseball and all that... but, just try to remember what it was like being a kid.
...
As for Odd Todd... sorry... but, school bus drivers conjure up memories of that guy. It was fun to make fun of him because he was so wierd. That's what little kids do. Mostly because... they are little kids.

brandon10

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

brandon10 wrote:

What exactly is the point of removing the hat??? So your small mind can be closer to god or that you want to show off your awful hat hair. Who decided that was patriotic and why?

It is a sign of respect. Similar to giving the finger as a sign of disrespect.

Respect to whom??? Me? You? God? Everyone? Why is it respectful? Who decided that that gesture was respectful and why?

FiveB247x

I have no problem with this at all. Pledge allegiance or taking off your hat or putting your hand over your heart or swearing on some religious book does not show any sign of respect - it is merely an ancient gesture of obedience. Respect, respect for authority, and similar should always be earned - not handed over blindly... not in one circumstance.

And for all you people so patriotic, go to a sporting event sometime and you'll see how much respect people have as they cheer, hoot and make noise while the singing still goes on during "the home of the brave" line. That is something far more disrespectful than someone not taking off their hat (which is merely has religious origins) or someone placing their hand over their heart (which is simply childish). These gestures are nothing more than child's antics and meant to enact blind patriotism, blind respect for authority and similar... none of which are complimentary traits of a good, smart citizen.

Watch this a learn a few things people... it's all non-sense and made up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E&feature=PlayList&p=F0F8A459D1EE2607&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21

Byrnzie

unsung wrote:

Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other.

What a crock of shit.

Edit: Only an American would say such a thing.

And how do you KNOW that America is 'the best country on the planet?'

What do you mean by 'Best'?

Have you been to every other country on the planet?

You think someone born in Sweden or Tahiti thinks America is 'the best country on the planet?'

Seriously, stop with this juvenile, chest-beating crap already. There aren't just Americans on this message board. And those of us 'Non-Americans' find this kind of attitude pretty pathetic and irritating.

Byrnzie

unsung wrote:

So because you chose to serve that now gives you the right to disrespect the country?

He disrespected the country by not taking his hat off?

What is this, the 1950's?

If anyone had ever told me to stand and salute a flag at school I'd have laughed in their face.

Byrnzie

unsung wrote:

I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing...No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.

Maybe the student has a brain, and refuses to salute the flag while the U.S is engaged in two wars of occupation and continues giving unconditional support to a terrorist rogue state called Israel.

gimmesometruth27

this teacher was way over the line in this situation...she could have handled that in a much more adult and much more professional manner...she should be suspended, and if it was my child i would not sue, initially i would demand her resignation, and if she does not give it to me i would contact an attorney and i would not relent until i had satisfaction...which for me would be a sincere apology to my daughter from the teacher, the principal, and the school board that will allow that teacher to stay employed...it is not the responsibility of the teacher to discipline someone else's child and it is not her responsibility to berate and embarrass her in front of her peers...

i think pledging allegiance is an antiquated way of trying to indoctrinate the kids...if this were my daughter i would respect her decision and defend her and that is final. what parent would not? patriotism is overrated, and it says nothing of your character. did you ever notice that the people that claim to be the biggest patriots tend to be a little dim-witted?? why blindly pledge allegiance to something that is as intangible as a country or government, or a god?? when you "pledge allegiance to the flag" you pledge allegiance to everything that flag represents both good and bad, and i will not forsake my principles by pledging allegiance to something that has done so many questionable things the last 10 years, from needless wars to human rights abuses, to allowing the corporate abuses and destruction of our environment. i can't go along with it...i just can't...

during the pledge i stand, but i no longer place my hand over my heart, nor do i say the words. its just my choice. same way with the anthem. to me nationalism is a fucking stupid and divisive thing. please refer to my signature for further evidence of my thoughts on patriotism and nationalism...

i personally don't give a shit if people stand or sit during the pledge, i don't care if they take their hats off during the anthem or sit down...none of it matters to me. it has no bearing on my life. if people are going to get all worked up over what people do during the pledge or anthem then they have way too much time on their hands. i find it very funny that people will get all upset and tell people like me to leave the country...as if they have some sort of superpatriot superpower that can actually make me leave...some people just need to chill....

gimmesometruth27

Byrnzie wrote:

unsung wrote:

I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing...No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.

Maybe the student has a brain, and refuses to salute the flag while the U.S is engaged in two wars of occupation and continues giving unconditional support to a terrorist rogue state called Israel.

yes, i somehow doubt that this was a scheme concocted by the parents and the daughter to get attention....many kids her age have developed a conscience and are switched on as to what is going on in the world these days...

FiveB247x

i dont sing either... i honestly try and think bout good things my country does in the world and the great tenets we were founded upon and hope we will once again rise to share those with the world in positive ways.

i do not do anything during the anthem as this is merely a song.. not anything more. i'd show more respect and enjoyment hearing PJ play Grievance

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

this teacher was way over the line in this situation...she could have handled that in a much more adult and much more professional manner...she should be suspended, and if it was my child i would not sue, initially i would demand her resignation, and if she does not give it to me i would contact an attorney and i would not relent until i had satisfaction...which for me would be a sincere apology to my daughter from the teacher, the principal, and the school board that will allow that teacher to stay employed...it is not the responsibility of the teacher to discipline someone else's child and it is not her responsibility to berate and embarrass her in front of her peers...

i think pledging allegiance is an antiquated way of trying to indoctrinate the kids...if this were my daughter i would respect her decision and defend her and that is final. what parent would not? patriotism is overrated, and it says nothing of your character. did you ever notice that the people that claim to be the biggest patriots tend to be a little dim-witted?? why blindly pledge allegiance to something that is as intangible as a country or government, or a god?? when you "pledge allegiance to the flag" you pledge allegiance to everything that flag represents both good and bad, and i will not forsake my principles by pledging allegiance to something that has done so many questionable things the last 10 years, from needless wars to human rights abuses, to allowing the corporate abuses and destruction of our environment. i can't go along with it...i just can't...

during the pledge i stand, but i no longer place my hand over my heart, nor do i say the words. its just my choice. same way with the anthem. to me nationalism is a fucking stupid and divisive thing. please refer to my signature for further evidence of my thoughts on patriotism and nationalism...

i personally don't give a shit if people stand or sit during the pledge, i don't care if they take their hats off during the anthem or sit down...none of it matters to me. it has no bearing on my life. if people are going to get all worked up over what people do during the pledge or anthem then they have way too much time on their hands. i find it very funny that people will get all upset and tell people like me to leave the country...as if they have some sort of superpatriot superpower that can actually make me leave...some people just need to chill....

flywallyfly

I pledge allegiance to be indoctrinated.

Cosmo

Original Pledge Of Alligence:
'I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.'
Written for a Columbus Day celebration and was recited while saluting the flag with the (Francis) Bellamy salute. The salute was dropped in 1942 because it was the same as the Heil Hitler salute.
'Under God' was officially added in 1954 (originally requested by the Knights of Columbus) during the Cold War Red Scare.

AnarionKing

Byrnzie wrote:

unsung wrote:

Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other.

What a crock of shit.
Edit: Only an American would say such a thing.
And how do you KNOW that America is 'the best country on the planet?'
What do you mean by 'Best'?
Have you been to every other country on the planet?
You think someone born in Sweden or Tahiti thinks America is 'the best country on the planet?'
Seriously, stop with this juvenile, chest-beating crap already. There aren't just Americans on this message board. And those of us 'Non-Americans' find this kind of attitude pretty pathetic and irritating.

I agree You only have to take a quick look at the Human Development Index, which is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide.
2009 report:
1. Norway 0.971
2. Australia 0.970
3. Iceland 0.969
...
13. United States 0.956

But you can say all you will about USA's government, the wars they fight and all that, but there's no denying it's a pretty special country. I've been there once, in Florida, and it was the trip of a lifetime (not because of Universal Studios, but the culture, people, huge hamburgers, etc. )

redrock

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I always thought that when you went to school the teachers were considered your "parents" for the 8 or so hours. Meaning you would respect them the same way you would your parents.

They're not considered as 'parents'. They are strangers. The child is in the care of the institution during schoold hours (with rules and regulations) and the teachers are paid educators. They do the job they are paid for - sometimes well and sometimes not. Whilst children should respect any other person in a proper manner, there is no way a child should see them/respect them as they would their parents. Whole different world.

unsung

Byrnzie wrote:

unsung wrote:

Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other.

What a crock of shit.

Edit: Only an American would say such a thing.

And how do you KNOW that America is 'the best country on the planet?'

What do you mean by 'Best'?

Have you been to every other country on the planet?

You think someone born in Sweden or Tahiti thinks America is 'the best country on the planet?'

Seriously, stop with this juvenile, chest-beating crap already. There aren't just Americans on this message board. And those of us 'Non-Americans' find this kind of attitude pretty pathetic and irritating.

Yeah Sweden and Tahiti are just being flooded with immigrants trying to make lives better for their families.

Smellyman

unsung wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

unsung wrote:

Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other.

What a crock of shit.

Edit: Only an American would say such a thing.

And how do you KNOW that America is 'the best country on the planet?'

What do you mean by 'Best'?

Have you been to every other country on the planet?

You think someone born in Sweden or Tahiti thinks America is 'the best country on the planet?'

Seriously, stop with this juvenile, chest-beating crap already. There aren't just Americans on this message board. And those of us 'Non-Americans' find this kind of attitude pretty pathetic and irritating.

Yeah Sweden and Tahiti are just being flooded with immigrants trying to make lives better for their families.

They would if Mexico was adjacent to them

unsung

Really?

So the German, Irish, Italian, and whatever else waves of people just decided coming to the USA was easier than going someplace else?

Smellyman

unsung wrote:

Really?

So the German, Irish, Italian, and whatever else waves of people just decided coming to the USA was easier than going someplace else?

did we just go back in time 80 years?