I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
...
If that teacher didn't react that way... no lawsuit. No news story... and this thread would not exist.
Maybe she was removed from the class because her actions were disruptive and a distraction to the rest of the students. We weren't there I'm guessing there is more to the story.
Question to anyone it concerns: Do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' when you want to? Or do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' only when you are told to pledge your alligence?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,198
You were. I'm sure your former military buddies would tell you the same.
You are a joke most of my buddies don't give a shit either they know it's my choice not a command.
peace
Easy internet tough guy. Don't get all upset because I stated a fact that you disrespected the flag and country.
Again whatever, call it what you want it's still my choice and from what I see at games around the country many other Americans do the same if they want to. That's the beauty of this country, we are NOT commanded to do so, WE have a choice to remove our hats, place our hand over our chest if we wish. Thank you.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
You were. I'm sure your former military buddies would tell you the same.
You are a joke most of my buddies don't give a shit either they know it's my choice not a command.
peace
Easy internet tough guy. Don't get all upset because I stated a fact that you disrespected the flag and country.
You have disrespected the country by being illogical and not learning the laws of the land. I thought you teabagger types were all for the govt staying out of your affairs? Such a joke.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Question to anyone it concerns: Do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' when you want to? Or do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' only when you are told to pledge your alligence?
I do it because I want to, not that I find myself doing it very much in my adult life. I mean I don't have a huge flag hanging in the living room so I can say the pledge every morning. However I will never not remove my hat, nor will I ever sit for the anthem or pledge. I respect this country.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism was said by someone many here admire. I don't show dissent for my country, I show it for my government. There is a big difference.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
You have disrespected the country by being illogical and not learning the laws of the land. I thought you teabagger types were all for the govt staying out of your affairs? Such a joke.
The government has nothing to do with my stance. Try and keep up.
Question to anyone it concerns: Do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' when you want to? Or do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' only when you are told to pledge your alligence?
I do it because I want to, not that I find myself doing it very much in my adult life. I mean I don't have a huge flag hanging in the living room so I can say the pledge every morning. However I will never not remove my hat, nor will I ever sit for the anthem or pledge. I respect this country.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism was said by someone many here admire. I don't show dissent for my country, I show it for my government. There is a big difference.
The fact that you think you have to remove your hat to be patriotic is the most retarded thing I have read here in a long while.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
What exactly is the point of removing the hat??? So your small mind can be closer to god or that you want to show off your awful hat hair. Who decided that was patriotic and why?
I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't feel any sympathy for this girl or her family. If you are an American and you love your country you shouldn't have a problem with the P.O.A to the flag of The United Staes of America. In all honesty, if I was this girls teacher I would have humiliated her also. I used to drive a school bus, humiliation is a very good way to get respect and good behaviour out of children. They never forget it.
Again whatever, call it what you want it's still my choice and from what I see at games around the country many other Americans do the same if they want to. That's the beauty of this country, we are NOT commanded to do so, WE have a choice to remove our hats, place our hand over our chest if we wish. Thank you.
Peace
...
There it is in a nutshell. Freedom to choose. Regardless of how unpopular it is.
And... it's not that big of a deal... especially in the context of what this nation is currently facing.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
What exactly is the point of removing the hat??? So your small mind can be closer to god or that you want to show off your awful hat hair. Who decided that was patriotic and why?
Do you burp and fart at the dinner table in a fine restaurant?
People remove their hats because not only does it show respect but it shows good manners and proper etiquette. It is the gentlemanly thing to do. You don't want to be thought of as a neanderthal, do you?
But I'm guessing with your use of personal attacks to try to debate a topic I'm not the one with the small mind.
I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't feel any sympathy for this girl or her family. If you are an American and you love your country you shouldn't have a problem with the P.O.A to the flag of The United Staes of America. In all honesty, if I was this girls teacher I would have humiliated her also. I used to drive a school bus, humiliation is a very good way to get respect and good behaviour out of children. They never forget it.
...
A grown adult... humiliating a 13 year old girl.
...
hmmmmm...
...
okay.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Question to anyone it concerns: Do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' when you want to? Or do you 'Pledge Your Alligence' only when you are told to pledge your alligence?
I do it because I want to, not that I find myself doing it very much in my adult life. I mean I don't have a huge flag hanging in the living room so I can say the pledge every morning. However I will never not remove my hat, nor will I ever sit for the anthem or pledge. I respect this country.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism was said by someone many here admire. I don't show dissent for my country, I show it for my government. There is a big difference.
The fact that you think you have to remove your hat to be patriotic is the most retarded thing I have read here in a long while.
I don't think removing the hat is a patriotic thing. It shows a sign of respect. Kinda like taking your hat off at a dinner table or a restaraunt.
I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't feel any sympathy for this girl or her family. If you are an American and you love your country you shouldn't have a problem with the P.O.A to the flag of The United Staes of America. In all honesty, if I was this girls teacher I would have humiliated her also. I used to drive a school bus, humiliation is a very good way to get respect and good behaviour out of children. They never forget it.
...
A grown adult... humiliating a 13 year old girl.
...
hmmmmm...
...
okay.
Don't be such a sally, it makes them a better person in the long run.
What exactly is the point of removing the hat??? So your small mind can be closer to god or that you want to show off your awful hat hair. Who decided that was patriotic and why?
Do you burp and fart at the dinner table in a fine restaurant?
People remove their hats because not only does it show respect but it shows good manners and proper etiquette. It is the gentlemanly thing to do. You don't want to be thought of as a neanderthal, do you?
But I'm guessing with your use of personal attacks to try to debate a topic I'm not the one with the small mind.
The hat off at a ball game is NOTHING like burping or farting during dinner. It is a silly gesture that makes old people happy. And they don't even know why. Seriously, what's the point in it?? It is completely useless. Almost as bad as flagpins on suits. I can't believe how esuless that is. You really need a flagpin to prove how patriotic you are?? So useless.
I do it because I want to, not that I find myself doing it very much in my adult life. I mean I don't have a huge flag hanging in the living room so I can say the pledge every morning. However I will never not remove my hat, nor will I ever sit for the anthem or pledge. I respect this country.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism was said by someone many here admire. I don't show dissent for my country, I show it for my government. There is a big difference.
...
Still... you DO come across flags in your daily routines, right? Do you stop and pledge your alligence to the flag outside the post office, at the gas station, in front of the Taco Bell? Sing the national anthem to it... tip your hat?
I'm guessing... no. You only do those things when you are told to join in.
...
That is the point I am making.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Don't be such a sally, it makes them a better person in the long run.
...
a creepy old bus driver... humiliating little girls.
...
That may be kosher where you live... from here... a bit creepy.
Fucking libs just can not help name calling. You can try to do it as subtle as you like, just shows how libs always place themselves on a pedistal. But to get to the topic at hand, I remember we would have to go to bus rodeos and they would actualy train us in this stuff. Have you ever been responsible for a whole bus full of kids? It's not as simple as you may think almighty one.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,198
I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't feel any sympathy for this girl or her family. If you are an American and you love your country you shouldn't have a problem with the P.O.A to the flag of The United Staes of America. In all honesty, if I was this girls teacher I would have humiliated her also. I used to drive a school bus, humiliation is a very good way to get respect and good behaviour out of children. They never forget it.
If you think that's such a bright idea humilliating a 13 year old teenager well you won't have a job for very long. Do you love being a bully to a teenager?
I used to teach some years ago and if in the same situation I would NEVER had berated the child at all especially in front of the class. You'll lose your classroom in the end and you have an obligation to ALL of your students. As a teacher the last thing you want is to lose the focus as to why you are there and that is to teach.
I would speak to that child one on one after class to find out why she chose to not stand during the pledge. Why was she so uncomfortable to do so? Then depending on what she said I would take that information and speak to the parents. Then later one of the measures I would consider to write a paper about why do we say the pledge and what does it mean to you. instead of making a controversy out of this through humiliation use it to be a learning process.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Don't be such a sally, it makes them a better person in the long run.
...
a creepy old bus driver... humiliating little girls.
...
That may be kosher where you live... from here... a bit creepy.
Fucking libs just can not help name calling. You can try to do it as subtle as you like, just shows how libs always place themselves on a pedistal. But to get to the topic at hand, I remember we would have to go to bus rodeos and they would actualy train us in this stuff. Have you ever been responsible for a whole bus full of kids? It's not as simple as you may think almighty one.
...
No.. i was never a school bus driver.
But, I remember Todd... the school bus driver. We called him 'Odd Todd'. A creepy guy. In fact, so creepy, me and a lot of my friends opted to walk the distance to school, rather than ride with him.
...
So... and I know im wrong, here... I admit it... but, i picture you as Odd Todd, berating little girls and thinking what a big man he was.
Sorry.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,198
Don't be such a sally, it makes them a better person in the long run.
...
a creepy old bus driver... humiliating little girls.
...
That may be kosher where you live... from here... a bit creepy.
. But to get to the topic at hand, I remember we would have to go to bus rodeos and they would actualy train us in this stuff. Have you ever been responsible for a whole bus full of kids? It's not as simple as you may think almighty one.
That said IF you think humiliation is the best way or your way of controling teens on your bus then you truly are a creepy old bus driver.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Fucking libs just can not help name calling. You can try to do it as subtle as you like, just shows how libs always place themselves on a pedistal. But to get to the topic at hand, I remember we would have to go to bus rodeos and they would actualy train us in this stuff. Have you ever been responsible for a whole bus full of kids? It's not as simple as you may think almighty one.
...
Oh.. and by the way... an old man bus driver berating and humiliating little kids is 'creepy'. It isn't 'Name Calling'.... it is applying a very suitable adjective.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Fucking libs just can not help name calling. You can try to do it as subtle as you like, just shows how libs always place themselves on a pedistal. But to get to the topic at hand, I remember we would have to go to bus rodeos and they would actualy train us in this stuff. Have you ever been responsible for a whole bus full of kids? It's not as simple as you may think almighty one.
...
Oh.. and by the way... an old man bus driver berating and humiliating little kids is 'creepy'. It isn't 'Name Calling'.... it is applying a very suitable adjective.
well, i'm not old and i'm not creepy.
oh.. and by the way...I had a very well behaved bus and I got lots of respect from kids and parents. Even got Christmas cards and small gifts. You pepes make it sound like if a kid gets a little embarassed his life is over. Suck it up! I'm not even sure what berated means, but if you can get a kids cheeks to turn a little red while a whole bunch of qiuet kids are staring......it can go a long way.
well, i'm not old and i'm not kreepy.
oh.. and by the way...I had a very well behaved bus and I got lots of respect from kids and parents. Even got Christmas cards and small gifts. You pepes make it sound like if a kid gets a little embarassed his life is over. Suck it up!
...
No. If you are an adult and you are berating little kids... you are creepy. To a 13 year old girl... even a 20 year old is old. And those kids you belittled.... they are probably telling stories like mine, about Odd Todd... except they are talking about you.
Your method was an attempt to demand respect. Which isn't respect at all. Respect is commanded, not demanded. There are ways to deal with kids as an adult... being an adult bully is probably not the best way to go.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
well, i'm not old and i'm not kreepy.
oh.. and by the way...I had a very well behaved bus and I got lots of respect from kids and parents. Even got Christmas cards and small gifts. You pepes make it sound like if a kid gets a little embarassed his life is over. Suck it up!
...
No. If you are an adult and you are berating little kids... you are creepy. To a 13 year old girl... even a 20 year old is old. And those kids you belittled.... they are probably telling stories like mine, about Odd Todd... except they are talking about you.
Your method was an attempt to demand respect. Which isn't respect at all. Respect is commanded, not demanded. There are ways to deal with kids as an adult... being an adult bully is probably not the best way to go.
For fuck sakes man..... I DIDN"T put the kids at the front of the bus and pull their pants down.
Is there some deep lying emotions about Odd Todd that you would like to get off your chest?
You know what rights she has.....the ones her parents give her! Thats it!
but let's say I agree with you...she has the right to what ever the hell she wants...it's a free couutry right?....well when she exercises that right she better be ready to play ball with the big boys!
...
She has the birth rights granted to her as an American Citizen.
And if she exercises that right, she should expect the consequences of an unpopular viewpoint... from her peers or her parents, not from authority figures, such as teachers or school administrators.
I always thought that when you went to school the teachers were considered your "parents" for the 8 or so hours. Meaning you would respect them the same way you would your parents.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
What exactly is the point of removing the hat??? So your small mind can be closer to god or that you want to show off your awful hat hair. Who decided that was patriotic and why?
It is a sign of respect. Similar to giving the finger as a sign of disrespect.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Comments
Maybe she was removed from the class because her actions were disruptive and a distraction to the rest of the students. We weren't there I'm guessing there is more to the story.
Hail, Hail!!!
Again whatever, call it what you want it's still my choice and from what I see at games around the country many other Americans do the same if they want to. That's the beauty of this country, we are NOT commanded to do so, WE have a choice to remove our hats, place our hand over our chest if we wish. Thank you.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
You have disrespected the country by being illogical and not learning the laws of the land. I thought you teabagger types were all for the govt staying out of your affairs? Such a joke.
I do it because I want to, not that I find myself doing it very much in my adult life. I mean I don't have a huge flag hanging in the living room so I can say the pledge every morning. However I will never not remove my hat, nor will I ever sit for the anthem or pledge. I respect this country.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism was said by someone many here admire. I don't show dissent for my country, I show it for my government. There is a big difference.
The government has nothing to do with my stance. Try and keep up.
The fact that you think you have to remove your hat to be patriotic is the most retarded thing I have read here in a long while.
The fact that you use the word "retarded" to try to make your point speaks for itself.
Why do schools have to indoctrinate our students.....:)
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't feel any sympathy for this girl or her family. If you are an American and you love your country you shouldn't have a problem with the P.O.A to the flag of The United Staes of America. In all honesty, if I was this girls teacher I would have humiliated her also. I used to drive a school bus, humiliation is a very good way to get respect and good behaviour out of children. They never forget it.
There it is in a nutshell. Freedom to choose. Regardless of how unpopular it is.
And... it's not that big of a deal... especially in the context of what this nation is currently facing.
Hail, Hail!!!
Do you burp and fart at the dinner table in a fine restaurant?
People remove their hats because not only does it show respect but it shows good manners and proper etiquette. It is the gentlemanly thing to do. You don't want to be thought of as a neanderthal, do you?
But I'm guessing with your use of personal attacks to try to debate a topic I'm not the one with the small mind.
A grown adult... humiliating a 13 year old girl.
...
hmmmmm...
...
okay.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think removing the hat is a patriotic thing. It shows a sign of respect. Kinda like taking your hat off at a dinner table or a restaraunt.
Don't be such a sally, it makes them a better person in the long run.
a creepy old bus driver... humiliating little girls.
...
That may be kosher where you live... from here... a bit creepy.
Hail, Hail!!!
The hat off at a ball game is NOTHING like burping or farting during dinner. It is a silly gesture that makes old people happy. And they don't even know why. Seriously, what's the point in it?? It is completely useless. Almost as bad as flagpins on suits. I can't believe how esuless that is. You really need a flagpin to prove how patriotic you are?? So useless.
Still... you DO come across flags in your daily routines, right? Do you stop and pledge your alligence to the flag outside the post office, at the gas station, in front of the Taco Bell? Sing the national anthem to it... tip your hat?
I'm guessing... no. You only do those things when you are told to join in.
...
That is the point I am making.
Hail, Hail!!!
If you think that's such a bright idea humilliating a 13 year old teenager well you won't have a job for very long. Do you love being a bully to a teenager?
I used to teach some years ago and if in the same situation I would NEVER had berated the child at all especially in front of the class. You'll lose your classroom in the end and you have an obligation to ALL of your students. As a teacher the last thing you want is to lose the focus as to why you are there and that is to teach.
I would speak to that child one on one after class to find out why she chose to not stand during the pledge. Why was she so uncomfortable to do so? Then depending on what she said I would take that information and speak to the parents. Then later one of the measures I would consider to write a paper about why do we say the pledge and what does it mean to you. instead of making a controversy out of this through humiliation use it to be a learning process.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
No.. i was never a school bus driver.
But, I remember Todd... the school bus driver. We called him 'Odd Todd'. A creepy guy. In fact, so creepy, me and a lot of my friends opted to walk the distance to school, rather than ride with him.
...
So... and I know im wrong, here... I admit it... but, i picture you as Odd Todd, berating little girls and thinking what a big man he was.
Sorry.
Hail, Hail!!!
That said IF you think humiliation is the best way or your way of controling teens on your bus then you truly are a creepy old bus driver.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Oh.. and by the way... an old man bus driver berating and humiliating little kids is 'creepy'. It isn't 'Name Calling'.... it is applying a very suitable adjective.
Hail, Hail!!!
well, i'm not old and i'm not creepy.
oh.. and by the way...I had a very well behaved bus and I got lots of respect from kids and parents. Even got Christmas cards and small gifts. You pepes make it sound like if a kid gets a little embarassed his life is over. Suck it up! I'm not even sure what berated means, but if you can get a kids cheeks to turn a little red while a whole bunch of qiuet kids are staring......it can go a long way.
No. If you are an adult and you are berating little kids... you are creepy. To a 13 year old girl... even a 20 year old is old. And those kids you belittled.... they are probably telling stories like mine, about Odd Todd... except they are talking about you.
Your method was an attempt to demand respect. Which isn't respect at all. Respect is commanded, not demanded. There are ways to deal with kids as an adult... being an adult bully is probably not the best way to go.
Hail, Hail!!!
For fuck sakes man..... I DIDN"T put the kids at the front of the bus and pull their pants down.
Is there some deep lying emotions about Odd Todd that you would like to get off your chest?
I always thought that when you went to school the teachers were considered your "parents" for the 8 or so hours. Meaning you would respect them the same way you would your parents.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
It is a sign of respect. Similar to giving the finger as a sign of disrespect.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II