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PLEDGE CONTROVERSY in School

g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
edited February 2010 in A Moving Train
Here's the video...

ACLU Speaks Out For Girl Who Sat for Pledge
The American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland is protesting the treatment of a middle-school student who refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.


More on the story..Teacher To Apologize for Conduct During Pledge of Allegiance

Clearly, The student has the right to refuse to stand the Supreme Court has ruled so. Even if that's not the case it's inappropriate for the teacher to berate the student in front of the class and some in the class joining in. The student hasn't returned to class as yet.

Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung wrote:
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.
    ...
    You mean... this country where you can express your opinions or views, regardless if they are unpopular?
    Or this country where it is mandated that you do something... even if you do not believe in it?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • AnarionKingAnarionKing Posts: 170
    If I lived in America I would refuse to say the pledge of allegiance, first and foremost because of the "under God"-line. I also don't think it's right to brainwash kids in such a way.
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0OqHr3wHQ
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    unsung wrote:
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.

    You've said some things on here but that has to be THE most idiotic thing you've said. Man you are so pro America and red, white and blue. However, THIS is America and that student has the right to refuse to stand if she chooses, we are free to do so. One of the lovely features of this country remember *that's why they hate us because of our FREEDOM.*

    The teacher does not have the right to mistreat her student in front of the class or at all. Something like when I had to put a woman in her place when she questioned me as to why I didn't take my hat off during the national anthem. I told her I have had the oppurtunity to be in the military to protect that flag and protect you so you can watch this ballgame. When you've done the same holla back until then my Red Sox hat will stay where I want it. She never said another word neither did anybody else.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    it's inappropriate for the teacher to berate the student in front of the class and some in the class joining in. The student hasn't returned to class as yet.

    Kids used to be taught how to show respect. Seems that is not happening anymore. I would bet her parents have taught her not to respect her flag..... It would not surprise me if they don’t try and make money on this by suing......
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement she needs to take the shit that comes with it, like being berated or being called names.........I mean I take the shit that comes to me on the MT....just because I do respect my country....
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    AnarionKing wrote:
    If I lived in America I would refuse to say the pledge of allegiance, first and foremost because of the "under God"-line. I also don't think it's right to brainwash kids in such a way.
    ...
    There was originally a salute that was required during the recital of the pledge of alligence:
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ ... salute.jpg
    ...
    I bet there were people back then that believed if you didn't salute... you should go live in Germany.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    it's inappropriate for the teacher to berate the student in front of the class and some in the class joining in. The student hasn't returned to class as yet.

    Kids used to be taught how to show respect. Seems that is not happening anymore. I would bet her parents have taught her not to respect her flag..... It would not surprise me if they don’t try and make money on this by suing......
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement she needs to take the shit that comes with it, like being berated or being called names.........I mean I take the shit that comes to me on the MT....just because I do respect my country....
    ...
    Student Rafael Garcia told us, "She shouldn't have been taken out of class."
    "We have the right to freedom of speech so if she didn't want to say it why is she being persecuted for that?" asked one student.
    ...
    How come kids understnd this.. and, apparently, adults do not?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    This is why teachers have such problem with kids in class rooms....kids want to act as if they have the same rights adults have....a more appropriate way to handle this would be for the child to do as she was told (show respect)....go home tell her parents and have them write a note or go to the school to speak with the teacher....
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    This is why teachers have such problem with kids in class rooms....kids want to act as if they have the same rights adults have....a more appropriate way to handle this would be for the child to do as she was told (show respect)....go home tell her parents and have them write a note or go to the school to speak with the teacher....
    ...
    So.. are you the authority of what kids (and parents) should do?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    This is why teachers have such problem with kids in class rooms....kids want to act as if they have the same rights adults have....a more appropriate way to handle this would be for the child to do as she was told (show respect)....go home tell her parents and have them write a note or go to the school to speak with the teacher....
    ...
    So.. are you the authority of what kids (and parents) should do?
    One of them ;)
    Why? You don't think kids should learn respect for adults?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    aerial wrote:
    it's inappropriate for the teacher to berate the student in front of the class and some in the class joining in. The student hasn't returned to class as yet.

    Kids used to be taught how to show respect. Seems that is not happening anymore. I would bet her parents have taught her not to respect her flag..... It would not surprise me if they don’t try and make money on this by suing......
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement she needs to take the shit that comes with it, like being berated or being called names.........I mean I take the shit that comes to me on the MT....just because I do respect my country....

    A. What a huge crock of assumptions.

    B. No one on the MT gives you shit for respecting OUR country; they give you shit for YOUR ideas.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement she needs to take the shit that comes with it,

    Okay let me Rephrase that for ya....
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement or have bold ideas, she needs to take the shit that comes with it
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    This is why teachers have such problem with kids in class rooms....kids want to act as if they have the same rights adults have....a more appropriate way to handle this would be for the child to do as she was told (show respect)....go home tell her parents and have them write a note or go to the school to speak with the teacher....
    ...
    So.. are you the authority of what kids (and parents) should do?
    One of them ;)
    Why? You don't think kids should learn respect for adults?
    ...
    You are making the false assumption that this kid is disrespectful to adults. She is not being disrespectful to the teacher, the flag or the country. She is exercising her right, as an American citizen, to free expression as granted by the Constitution.
    If you don't like her opinon.. that's fine. You also have that right.
    ...
    Let me ask you this... do you recite the 'Pledge of Alligence' because you HAVE to.. or because you WANT to?
    See the difference?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    You know what rights she has.....the ones her parents give her! Thats it!
    but let's say I agree with you...she has the right to what ever the hell she wants...it's a free couutry right?....well when she exercises that right she better be ready to play ball with the big boys!
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • markin ballmarkin ball Posts: 1,075
    A group of children mindlessly chanting and pledging their allegiance to anything is creepy to me, no matter what it is. One should only recite the pledge if you can do so with sincereity and with understanding. Otherwise, you are not respecting it.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    edited February 2010
    AnarionKing wrote:
    If I lived in America I would refuse to say the pledge of allegiance, first and foremost because of the "under God"-line. I also don't think it's right to brainwash kids in such a way.

    They when that line comes just keep your mouth closed.

    But I'm glad someone brought up brainwashing.
    markin ball wrote:
    A group of children mindlessly chanting

    I agree.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mvP0ArKIGY
    Post edited by unsung on
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    g under p wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.

    You've said some things on here but that has to be THE most idiotic thing you've said. Man you are so pro America and red, white and blue. However, THIS is America and that student has the right to refuse to stand if she chooses, we are free to do so. One of the lovely features of this country remember *that's why they hate us because of our FREEDOM.*

    The teacher does not have the right to mistreat her student in front of the class or at all. Something like when I had to put a woman in her place when she questioned me as to why I didn't take my hat off during the national anthem. I told her I have had the oppurtunity to be in the military to protect that flag and protect you so you can watch this ballgame. When you've done the same holla back until then my Red Sox hat will stay where I want it. She never said another word neither did anybody else.

    Peace

    So because you chose to serve that now gives you the right to disrespect the country?

    Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other. It sickens me to see what it has become over the last 10 years.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    You know what rights she has.....the ones her parents give her! Thats it!
    but let's say I agree with you...she has the right to what ever the hell she wants...it's a free couutry right?....well when she exercises that right she better be ready to play ball with the big boys!
    ...
    She has the birth rights granted to her as an American Citizen.
    And if she exercises that right, she should expect the consequences of an unpopular viewpoint... from her peers or her parents, not from authority figures, such as teachers or school administrators.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    When she is 18 she can do what she wants, until then she is a minor and her parents hold her rights.
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    edited February 2010
    aerial wrote:
    it's inappropriate for the teacher to berate the student in front of the class and some in the class joining in. The student hasn't returned to class as yet.

    Kids used to be taught how to show respect. Seems that is not happening anymore. I would bet her parents have taught her not to respect her flag..... It would not surprise me if they don’t try and make money on this by suing......
    If she wants to make that bold of a statement she needs to take the shit that comes with it, like being berated or being called names.........I mean I take the shit that comes to me on the MT....just because I do respect my country....

    Again you are making quite a few assumptions there. How do you know her parents taught her not to respect the flag? There could be other reasons why she refused to stand we just don't know as yet. In our local news today they reported the parents do not intend to seek legal action however are seeking an apology from the teacher. I think the teacher should apologize.

    Lastly it's the LAW that she can refuse to stand or recite the pledge. I thought you were for Personal Responsibility and following the rule of law. Oh I gather only when you want that law to apply right.
    g under p wrote:
    Something like when I had to put a woman in her place when she questioned me as to why I didn't take my hat off during the national anthem. I told her I have had the oppurtunity to be in the military to protect that flag and protect you so you can watch this ballgame. When you've done the same holla back until then my Red Sox hat will stay where I want it. She never said another word neither did anybody else.


    Did you have a problem when I refused to remove my hat and place my hand over my heart? Well did you think I was being disrespectful?

    Peace
    Post edited by g under p on
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    You were. I'm sure your former military buddies would tell you the same.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung wrote:
    When she is 18 she can do what she wants, until then she is a minor and her parents hold her rights.
    ...
    Exactly... her PARENTS. Not her teacher or principal.
    The teacher has the authority over her education... not her opinions.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Bottom line... if the teacher didn't make such a big deal out of it... it never would have reached us.
    It's not that big of a deal... really... it isn't.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    unsung wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    If you don't like this country please just leave. I'm sure somewhere like Somalia would be better for these people.

    You've said some things on here but that has to be THE most idiotic thing you've said. Man you are so pro America and red, white and blue. However, THIS is America and that student has the right to refuse to stand if she chooses, we are free to do so. One of the lovely features of this country remember *that's why they hate us because of our FREEDOM.*

    The teacher does not have the right to mistreat her student in front of the class or at all. Something like when I had to put a woman in her place when she questioned me as to why I didn't take my hat off during the national anthem. I told her I have had the oppurtunity to be in the military to protect that flag and protect you so you can watch this ballgame. When you've done the same holla back until then my Red Sox hat will stay where I want it. She never said another word neither did anybody else.

    Peace

    So because you chose to serve that now gives you the right to disrespect the country?

    Yeah I'm pro-America because I know this is the best country on the planet. A country that gives more opportunities at a good life than probably any other. It sickens me to see what it has become over the last 10 years.

    Yes I was in the military and if I choose to NOT take off my hat or place my hand over my chest I will do so. You give the appearance you're so pro American but I doubt very much if you were at that game you would've said a word to me about my so called disrespectful act.

    peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    unsung wrote:
    You were. I'm sure your former military buddies would tell you the same.

    :lol: You are a joke most of my buddies don't give a shit either they know it's my choice not a command.

    peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    It hasn't stopped me in the past.

    But I find a generally don't have to because most people aren't jerk-offs wearing their hat while the anthem plays.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited February 2010
    unsung wrote:
    I guess it really doesn't matter. This person is probably just crying for attention and doesn't really understand what she is doing. Maybe it is all a planned attempt at getting some cash out of a lawsuit. Either way it sounds as if her peers and taking care of the situation. No details were given of the student to possibly come up with a motive.
    ...
    If that teacher didn't react that way... no attention... no lawsuit... no news story... and this thread would not exist.
    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    g under p wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    You were. I'm sure your former military buddies would tell you the same.

    :lol: You are a joke most of my buddies don't give a shit either they know it's my choice not a command.

    peace


    Easy internet tough guy. Don't get all upset because I stated a fact that you disrespected the flag and country.
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