Direct hit

dunkman

film director Kevin Smith was his co-pilot... that was as high as the plane would go.

rebornFixer

scb wrote:

Okay, I just read the letter and it kind of reinforces my idea that this wasn't meant to be a terrorist act. I don't think he meant to "intimidate or coerce". I think he meant to get people's attention and open their eyes to the injustices he felt are going on in this country. Obviously, this was the wrong way to do it though. :(

For what its worth, I agree with you. This sort of act does not really fit the current use of the term (and I am not refering to the persecution complex of people like NoK, who apparently thinks everyone loathes Muslims and loves "white men") ... This unstable individual probably wanted to call attention to his plight, but its not clear to me that he had a specific political goal to terrorize or coerse in mind. This is in contrast to someone like the Oklahoma bomber, who commited an act that IS widely referred to as terrorism. This guy was lashing out, but its not clear to me that he had coersion via fear in mind. The sorts of people who shoot up post offices are commiting horrible crimes, but its not accurate to call all forms of mass murder terrorism.

rebornFixer

dunkman wrote:

film director Kevin Smith was his co-pilot... that was as high as the plane would go.

Horrible.

cincybearcat

NoK wrote:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1014295/man-crashes-plane-into-us-building

A Texas man may have deliberately crashed a small plane into a building containing a US federal tax office after setting his own house on fire.

Two fighter jets were scrambled out of a nearby airport in response to the incident, which an official said does not appear to be linked to terrorism.

----

So let me get this straight.. it does not appear to be linked to terrorism because a white American committed it. I guess the new definition of terrorism is "an act of terror committed by a muslim".

Interesting thought. Is it "terrorism" if it just 1 guy and 1 guy's opinion? Or does it have to be part of a bigger group/movement? A suicide bomber is 1 person committing the act, but there is always a larger movement behind them.

Godfather.

this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.

Godfather.

ryanevolution

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
--FBI Definition

http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/Security/Terrordef.html

did this guy meet any of the above criteria? of course he did...he even had a "manifesto"...the guy was a fucking right wing, anti establishment, anti government, extremist, and with his actions he became a terrorist today.

+1

keeponrockin

Godfather. wrote:

this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.

Godfather.

There's an excuse for everything. Would you then say Palestinian suicide bombings in the same categories of some people not being able to handle it?

inmytree

Godfather. wrote:

this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.

Godfather.

if this guy was so intelligent he would of handled his frustration appropriately...as it stands, he's a dead pussy who couldn't handle his shit...

fuck him...

puremagic

Why do we constantly try to redefine terrorist acts committed by Americans on American soil as anything but a 'terrorist act'.

Stack's deliberately planned, targeted, and carried out an action to destroy a U.S. government facility, by using his airplane as a weapon to cause the maximum destruction of the target and its people. Stack's intentional suicidal action makes him no less equal to the intentional suicidal actions committed on 9/11. The number of people who die in a terrorist act does not diminish the fact that it is a terrorist act.

Many people claim they understand WHY he was driven to this action. Really, did people have to die because Stack's failed to pay his taxes and let his life snowball out of control? Was it just about the IRS? If so, why try to burn your house down with your family still in it!!!

Stack's didn't write the statement to help himself heal.

--The reading offer his excuses as a businessman who didn't pay his taxes and didn't believe he should have to pay taxes.

--The reading shows that he wanted to be martyred for political persecution (taxation without representation) -in TX - give me a break.

Stack's, just like any other terrorist, picked an issue and selected a target that people could sympathize with. An issue and target that would rally more followers because that's what terrorists do, that's how they gather support and get recruits.

What was has been the political rallying point for the last six months -TAXES, taxation without representation events.

Cosmo

Godfather. wrote:

this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.

Godfather.

...
This guy wasn't 'pushed' by the IRS... he was a fucking Tax Cheat. He was a fucking CRIMINAL that was pissed off that he got caught and had to pay the penalty. Furthermore, he is a fucking terrorist and a MURDERER.
The IRS isn't going to come after me... because I PAY MY TAXES and am not a liar and a cheater.

gimmesometruth27

Cosmo wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.

Godfather.

...
This guy wasn't 'pushed' by the IRS... he was a fucking Tax Cheat. He was a fucking CRIMINAL that was pissed off that he got caught and had to pay the penalty. Furthermore, he is a fucking terrorist and a MURDERER.
The IRS isn't going to come after me... because I PAY MY TAXES and am not a liar and a cheater.

completely agreed....and as far as we know, you are not a murderer either lol..

CJMST3K

puremagic wrote:

Why do we constantly try to redefine terrorist acts committed by Americans on American soil as anything but a 'terrorist act'.

I think people see homegrown, individual anti-government wackos separate from a larger international conspiracy to try to drive fear into all of the United States.

I think they should specify what kind of terrorist act whenever this is on the news.

E.g.

WTC '93 - International Islamic Terrorist Group
Oklahoma City Bombing - Homegrown Terrorist Individuals
Atlanta Olympics Bombing - Homegrown Terrorist Individual
Unibomber - Homegrown Terrorist Individual
USS Cole - International Islamic Terrorist Group
9/11 - International Islamic Terrorist Group
Shoe-bomber - International Islamic Terrorist Group
Underwear-bomber - International Islamic Terrorist Group
IRS building attack - Homegrown Terrorist Individual


(and I'm calling anything less than 3 people "individuals" and 3 or more a "group")


...and I anticipate one of a couple of people on AMT to say how can something be an "International Islamic Terrorist Group" if it was the US government who created the attack. My answer, it's easy. They didn't.

...and then I anticipate one of a couple of people on AMT to say why we don't consider the US government a terrorist group for (insert international military action here). I'll leave that for another thread.

Godfather.

Ok all you sandal wearing raisin eating hippies clear the incense from the room and think...
what is your breaking point ? and who are you judge ANYBODY.
you all have proved that you have the potential to act out just like the pilot.
anger is a funny thing ain't it.

Godfather.

inmytree

Godfather. wrote:

Ok all you sandal wearing raisin eating hippies clear the incense from the room and think...
what is your breaking point ? and who are you judge ANYBODY.
you all have proved that you have the potential to act out just like the pilot.
anger is a funny thing ain't it.

Godfather.

um...a...

what...?

_

rebornFixer wrote:

scb wrote:

Okay, I just read the letter and it kind of reinforces my idea that this wasn't meant to be a terrorist act. I don't think he meant to "intimidate or coerce". I think he meant to get people's attention and open their eyes to the injustices he felt are going on in this country. Obviously, this was the wrong way to do it though. :(

For what its worth, I agree with you. This sort of act does not really fit the current use of the term (and I am not refering to the persecution complex of people like NoK, who apparently thinks everyone loathes Muslims and loves "white men") ... This unstable individual probably wanted to call attention to his plight, but its not clear to me that he had a specific political goal to terrorize or coerse in mind. This is in contrast to someone like the Oklahoma bomber, who commited an act that IS widely referred to as terrorism. This guy was lashing out, but its not clear to me that he had coersion via fear in mind. The sorts of people who shoot up post offices are commiting horrible crimes, but its not accurate to call all forms of mass murder terrorism.

I think his note - and especially the fact that he posted it on the internet - make it clear that his intention was to get his message out and open people's eyes. And I think it worked. He got our attention by flying his plane into the IRS building and, consequently, we all read his suicide note on the internet. Now his message has a worldwide audience. Had he committed suicide in a more ordinary way or not posted his note on the internet, his message wouldn't have gotten out to the world.

Anyway, I'm just saying I think his intent was clear, I don't think it fits the definitions of terrorism provided in this thread, and it worked. Again, I'm not defending his actions in any way or saying they weren't as bad as the actions of terrorists.

_

Godfather. wrote:

Ok all you sandal wearing raisin eating hippies clear the incense from the room and think...
what is your breaking point ? and who are you judge ANYBODY.
you all have proved that you have the potential to act out just like the pilot.
anger is a funny thing ain't it.

Godfather.

I'm pretty sure I fall into the "sandal wearing raisin eating hippie" category (though I would never burn incense because it creates smoke ). But I do believe that everyone has a breaking point. EVERYONE.

Cosmo

Godfather. wrote:

Ok all you sandal wearing raisin eating hippies clear the incense from the room and think...
what is your breaking point ? and who are you judge ANYBODY.
you all have proved that you have the potential to act out just like the pilot.
anger is a funny thing ain't it.

Godfather.

...
Wait a second... who is the psycho in this equation? You are the one showing compassion towards this guy... who commited crimes... got caught... had to pay the penalties... got pissed off... took the law into his own hands... commited another crime... that murdered an innocent office worker.
Hell YES I am angry. The guy was a criminal who commited a heinous criminal act that resulted in murder and tried to hold it up as a noble sacrifice for freedom.
And apparently... you are buying into it.
...
As for a breaking point... i don't know. But, I DO KNOW... I don't cheat on my taxes so I do not fear the IRS.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

Wait a second... who is the psycho in this equation? You are the one showing compassion towards this guy... who commited crimes... got caught... had to pay the penalties... got pissed off... took the law into his own hands... commited another crime... that murdered an innocent office worker.
Hell YES I am angry. The guy was a criminal who commited a heinous criminal act that resulted in murder and tried to hold it up as a noble sacrifice for freedom.
And apparently... you are buying into it.
...
As for a breaking point... i don't know. But, I DO KNOW... I don't cheat on my taxes so I do not fear the IRS.

Count me among those who see NO good reason for this pilot's deplorable behavior.

Godfather.

Cosmo wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Ok all you sandal wearing raisin eating hippies clear the incense from the room and think...
what is your breaking point ? and who are you judge ANYBODY.
you all have proved that you have the potential to act out just like the pilot.
anger is a funny thing ain't it.

Godfather.

...
Wait a second... who is the psycho in this equation? You are the one showing compassion towards this guy... who commited crimes... got caught... had to pay the penalties... got pissed off... took the law into his own hands... commited another crime... that murdered an innocent office worker.
Hell YES I am angry. The guy was a criminal who commited a heinous criminal act that resulted in murder and tried to hold it up as a noble sacrifice for freedom.
And apparently... you are buying into it.
...
As for a breaking point... i don't know. But, I DO KNOW... I don't cheat on my taxes so I do not fear the IRS.

do you beleieve every thing you read on the internet ? how do you know the guy is a cheet.
the goverment will tell us what they want us to hear,do you really think their going to tell
you that the IRS was screwing him to death and he cracked....ooop's our bad :?
if you don't know the whole truth don't be so quick to judge.

Godfather.

puremagic

CJMST3K wrote:

puremagic wrote:

Why do we constantly try to redefine terrorist acts committed by Americans on American soil as anything but a 'terrorist act'.

I think people see homegrown, individual anti-government wackos separate from a larger international conspiracy to try to drive fear into all of the United States.

I think they should specify what kind of terrorist act whenever this is on the news.

E.g.

WTC '93 - International Islamic Terrorist Group
Oklahoma City Bombing - Homegrown Terrorist Individuals
Atlanta Olympics Bombing - Homegrown Terrorist Individual
Unibomber - Homegrown Terrorist Individual
USS Cole - International Islamic Terrorist Group
9/11 - International Islamic Terrorist Group
Shoe-bomber - International Islamic Terrorist Group
Underwear-bomber - International Islamic Terrorist Group
IRS building attack - Homegrown Terrorist Individual


(and I'm calling anything less than 3 people "individuals" and 3 or more a "group")


...and I anticipate one of a couple of people on AMT to say how can something be an "International Islamic Terrorist Group" if it was the US government who created the attack. My answer, it's easy. They didn't.

...and then I anticipate one of a couple of people on AMT to say why we don't consider the US government a terrorist group for (insert international military action here). I'll leave that for another thread.

What makes the difference if a terrorist is homegrown or not when results are the same. Too kill, too cause fear and panic, too alter peoples' prospective of others, and, too be remembered as an instrument of death and destruction on a massive scale for a CAUSE.

A man in TX who gets in a plane and deliberately uses it as a weapon to commit death and destruction on a massive scale against what he sees as a symbol of his problems -- is no different from a man in Afghanistan who straps on backpack full of explosives, walks to village marketplace to kill two soldiers at the cost of 50 of his own people. Don't forget, we scrambled F-16s in TX to ensure there were no other planes in area.

Either an act is a terrorist act or it is not. If the act is going to be defined by the person/country that commits the act, then there is no 'war against terror', it simply a war against muslims.