this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.
Godfather.
I really, really hope you're on some kinda government watch list.
Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
I've read some bloggers trying to narrow down which California anti-tax organizations he's referring to. Seems these groups give shady advice and bilk tax protesters out of additional money - plus, because the advice isn't legally sound there's nothing to back them up when the protester ends up getting audited.
Frankly, I don't think taxes is the problem. I bet if there were no such thing as taxes, this guy would still spend his life focusing on negative things that happen to him and seeing himself as a victim. It's a state of mind. In his case it may have been a mental health disease, even. Really shitty things happen to all of us, what matters is how you deal with those things and move forward.
Edit to add: I have never seen doubling-down on conspiracy theories in order to explain these shitty, awful situations work out well for anyone. It is not a healthy mental path to start down and seems hard to get off once someone is on it.
do you beleieve every thing you read on the internet ? how do you know the guy is a cheet.
the goverment will tell us what they want us to hear,do you really think their going to tell
you that the IRS was screwing him to death and he cracked....ooop's our bad :?
if you don't know the whole truth don't be so quick to judge.
Godfather.
...
Did you even read his own words?
"The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two "interpretations" for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country."
He tried to 'interptret' tax codes that apply to Churches to fit his personal income... and avoid paying taxes. He got stung because you cannot file as a Church... if you are not a church. Same as me interpreting traffic laws to fit my driving needs. It is not going to fly.
"To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn't have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn't notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.
So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I'd never enter another accountant's office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it
When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl's unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn't have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me."
Failed to file a return... didn't know how his IRA disbursements worked... not the IRS's problem, HIS problem.
His new wife had $12K of unreported income that his own accountant did not file... again, not the IRS's problem... his accountant was to blame... if the accountant was even told of the $12K descrepency.
Ignorance of the law is no defense... otherwise, people could claim, "I didn't know it was illegal to shoplift".
...
And to kill... because of money? That is just fucking SAD.
He tried to cheat he tax laws by pretending he didn't know... didn't know that the laws applied to churches didn't apply to individuals... that there are penalties for early IRA withdrawal (in the form of taxes)... that his new wife had unreported income. He had his own business... he is supposed to learn these things.
..
Finally... Quick to Judge???
Some one is DEAD because of this guy. Did you know that? He MURDERED someone because of his money problems.
So, fuck yeah... I'm judging the asshole.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.
Godfather.
I really, really hope you're on some kinda government watch list.
I really really think your a little paranoid.........big brother
I'm not a radical of any kind but I guess my opinion scares you a little.
I go to work go home then my family and I are very involved in my son's sport (BMX) everyday
I don't have time to change the world.......wait isn't uncle obama doing that
do you beleieve every thing you read on the internet ? how do you know the guy is a cheet.
the goverment will tell us what they want us to hear,do you really think their going to tell
you that the IRS was screwing him to death and he cracked....ooop's our bad :?
if you don't know the whole truth don't be so quick to judge.
Godfather.
...
Did you even read his own words?
"The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two "interpretations" for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country."
He tried to 'interptret' tax codes that apply to Churches to fit his personal income... and avoid paying taxes. He got stung because you cannot file as a Church... if you are not a church. Same as me interpreting traffic laws to fit my driving needs. It is not going to fly.
"To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn't have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn't notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.
So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I'd never enter another accountant's office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it
When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl's unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn't have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me."
Failed to file a return... didn't know how his IRA disbursements worked... not the IRS's problem, HIS problem.
His new wife had $12K of unreported income that his own accountant did not file... again, not the IRS's problem... his accountant was to blame... if the accountant was told of the $12K descrepency.
Ignorance of the law is no defense... otherwise, people could claim, "I didn't know it was illegal to shoplift".
...
And to kill... because of money? That is just fucking SAD.
He tried to cheat he tax laws by pretending he didn't know... didn't know that the laws applied to churches didn't apply to individuals... that there are penalties for early IRA withdrawal (in the form of taxes)... that his new wife had unreported income. He had his own business... he is supposed to learn these things.
..
Finally... Quick to Judge???
Some one is DEAD because of this guy. Did you know that? He MURDERED someone because of his money problems.
So, fuck yeah... I'm judging the asshole.
watch out you might winde up on a goverment watch list
EZ Eddie I never said I have any compassion for the guy. and BTW people kill for money every day.
all I was saying who are we to judge anybody, let the law do it.
watch out you might winde up on a goverment watch list
EZ Eddie I never said I have any compassion for the guy. and BTW people kill for money every day.
all I was saying who are we to judge anybody, let the law do it.
Godfather.
Do you feel the same about Al-Queda (sp)?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.
Godfather.
I really, really hope you're on some kinda government watch list.
I really really think your a little paranoid.........big brother
I'm not a radical of any kind but I guess my opinion scares you a little.
I go to work go home then my family and I are very involved in my son's sport (BMX) everyday
I don't have time to change the world.......wait isn't uncle obama doing that
Godfather.
You're a terrorist sympathizer. Somebody should be keeping an eye on you.
Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.
Godfather.
...
This guy wasn't 'pushed' by the IRS... he was a fucking Tax Cheat. He was a fucking CRIMINAL that was pissed off that he got caught and had to pay the penalty. Furthermore, he is a fucking terrorist and a MURDERER.
The IRS isn't going to come after me... because I PAY MY TAXES and am not a liar and a cheater.
Guess what? Filling out your taxes is VOLUNTARY! It even says so on the fucking forms. But being coerced into paying them because the IRS will sick the FBI on you if you don't is not a form of voluntary compliance. It is duress. Just because the system is set up for people to have to pay taxes does not mean that it is actually constitutional. The U.S. survived the first 100 years of its existence without an income tax at all because no one had crafted a good enough way to subvert the constitution to be able to apply income taxes on the citizens.
I do not think this guy was a liar and cheat as you label him just because he didn't file his taxes. Constitutionally he was within his rights.
Guess what? Filling out your taxes is VOLUNTARY! It even says so on the fucking forms. But being coerced into paying them because the IRS will sick the FBI on you if you don't is not a form of voluntary compliance. It is duress. Just because the system is set up for people to have to pay taxes does not mean that it is actually constitutional. The U.S. survived the first 100 years of its existence without an income tax at all because no one had crafted a good enough way to subvert the constitution to be able to apply income taxes on the citizens.
I do not think this guy was a liar and cheat as you label him just because he didn't file his taxes. Constitutionally he was within his rights.
Completing the form is voluntary. But paying taxes is not. If you don't complete the form, the IRS will do the math for you and tell you how much you owe.
Guess what? Filling out your taxes is VOLUNTARY! It even says so on the fucking forms. But being coerced into paying them because the IRS will sick the FBI on you if you don't is not a form of voluntary compliance. It is duress. Just because the system is set up for people to have to pay taxes does not mean that it is actually constitutional. The U.S. survived the first 100 years of its existence without an income tax at all because no one had crafted a good enough way to subvert the constitution to be able to apply income taxes on the citizens.
I do not think this guy was a liar and cheat as you label him just because he didn't file his taxes. Constitutionally he was within his rights.
Completing the form is voluntary. But paying taxes is not. If you don't complete the form, the IRS will do the math for you and tell you how much you owe.
This may be true, but the income tax is still an unconstitutional measure enacted by the government even though it appears as the 16th amendment. To this day there are still questions as to whether or not that amendment was legally ratified by the required number of states.
Too bad he took others with him, 'cuz he does have some solid points in his letter. I was born in the mid 50's, so I got to go thru the hippy years, etc. I spent many years "swimming up stream" and HAD to learn the hard way that I live in the society in which I do and I can either keep fighting it, to no avail, or get with the program and live like the gov. insists our system of things operate, which I finally did and hated.
I am now old enough to rebel again, but not so much as to harm myself or others in doing so, which means still doing things and living in ways that are not of my choice.
I know I can live somewhere else, but they will have their own gov. intervetions that hit kids as soon as they enter school. I once learned by a professor who was quite anti-establishment, that the main function of public school is to program us to live within the constraints the US allows us to, or wants us to.
This guy seems to have never really gave up those ideals he once had, as I did, and he lived many years fighting a system he could never win.
I just wish he had not harmed others, so more people would really read what he wrote andnot think he's just some crackpot. He seems quite intelligent, yet I do know intelligent people can still have deep mental issues. This guy sounds more like an idealist, than a crackpot.
this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.
Godfather.
if this guy was so intelligent he would of handled his frustration appropriately...as it stands, he's a dead pussy who couldn't handle his shit...
fuck him...
Fuck him?? Really?? He had issues, no matter what they were they were deep enough for him to take his own life and others. He seemed tormented. I just cannot believe anyone would just cast him, or any person, off as "fuck him". Maybe that is part of the problem. We need solutions!!
For all we know this guy may have served in Vietnam, lost limbs, etc. No one knows his entire life.
Too kill, too cause fear and panic, too alter peoples' prospective of others, and, too be remembered as an instrument of death and destruction on a massive scale for a CAUSE.
I think this deranged pilot wanted to kill IRS employees in particular, and he was acting alone.
Al Qaida, on the other hand, wants to kill random people to strike fear in the entire US population, and they have a large financial and idealogical supporters who directly help this person or people do this.
These are two different goals with two different support structures. I put them in two different categories because they act in two different ways for two different ends.
Of course, they are both terrorizing - but I don't mind a qualifier before the word "terrorist".
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
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Yeah, we use the word terrorists for too many things these days. Almost any bad incident can be called terrorism 'cuz it frightens us. I think we need to refine the definition to mean what it should, which I believe is a group of people trying to frighten another group of people to change their behavior or ideals thru the use of threats, or actually carrying out those threats. Terrorist don't really even have to act past the point of threats. If it frightens us, it puts us in terror, we have been terrorized. The noun is the terrorist. The verb is to terrorize. It really doesn't mean to actually act outside of the threat.
Guess what? Filling out your taxes is VOLUNTARY! It even says so on the fucking forms. But being coerced into paying them because the IRS will sick the FBI on you if you don't is not a form of voluntary compliance. It is duress. Just because the system is set up for people to have to pay taxes does not mean that it is actually constitutional. The U.S. survived the first 100 years of its existence without an income tax at all because no one had crafted a good enough way to subvert the constitution to be able to apply income taxes on the citizens.
I do not think this guy was a liar and cheat as you label him just because he didn't file his taxes. Constitutionally he was within his rights.
...
Guess what? Filing a tax return (Form 1040) is voluentary... paying the taxes on your income isn't. The Tax Return is what you get back if you have been withheld too much... or your payment if you haven't had enough withheld. You cannot voluenteer to not pay taxes.
Lying on your tax returns is lying... cheating on your tax return is cheating. Interpreting the law as you see fit... is not following the law.
...
And last time I checked.. there hasn't been a repeal of the 16th Amendment. Therefore... like it or not... the 16th Amendment is part of our Constitution.
...
So... you can go ahead and not pay your share of the taxes and interpret Constitutional Law as you see it. But, know this... you will be held up to adhere to the laws of this land in the justice system... according to that Constitution... not your opinion of the Constitution.
Me? Not so much. I don't mind paying taxes because I like things such as the U.S. Marines and Air Force and Yosemite and Yellowstone... and don't want IRS matters in my life.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
IRS Frustration
Person gets letter from IRS saying they owe money.....of course IRS waits a year before they send the information so as to add on entrust I am sure. They show a list of items that were not claimed...
1...income spouse had that this person did not know about....
2...a forgiven debt, which falls under income
Problem
Can’t contact ex spouse because new mate is insecure
Forgiven debt from a company you never heard of
Solution
1..call IRS listen to automated answer machine press 2 because your not sure who the hell is the right person to talk to stay on hold about 10min
2....they say call another number..listen to automated answer machine press 5 wait 10 more min. till someone comes on the line......then explain you don’t know who the Portfolio Recovery service is
3....they say to call th Portfolio Recovery service so they can to send you a form that the IRS needs
4....Call portfolio and ask them to send form...they say “you need to pay this debt” (if I did owe this debt and they for gave it why are they trying to collect it after turning it in as forgiven?)I tell them I do not own them anything and I need a form for the IRS...they say no
5.... I research Portfolio Recovery Service on the internet....they are all over the net because they are doing the same thing to others. The ones that take Portfolio Recovery Service to court ends up with Portfolio Recovery Service dropping the whole thing...because they can’t prove people owed them the money in the first place.
6.....Call IRS back listen to automated answer machine....press 3 wait for human to answer....as I
took a shower
washed my hair
shaved my legs
and got dressed
still waiting
7....10 to 15 min. later finally person answers I tell her my story once again...and fill her in on what I have found out about the company that says I owed them money and ask if the IRS is investigating them...of course she does not know...so I ask her if any one can claim a forgiven debt to the IRS without the IRS investigating who they are or if there even legit.....she gets pissy with me so I ask to speak to a manager or supervisor....she says there is not one available right now, I say I will hold she says no and hangs up on me.....now I am PISSED
8...I call the Treasury Department in Washington DC and they give me a number
9....call the number and they give me another number
10...I call that number and a real person answers!
11....This is a Criminal Investigator in Miami...very nice man....I tell him the story...he says he will check it out but in the end he sends it to his supervisor and if they have bigger fish to fry there will not be anything done...FUCK!.....I am really frustrated now
That was my day off 5hrs trying to get information from the IRS!
I waited 2 months before I followed up with the investigator who had done nothing...guess he never had time..... he had another local investigator call me and I had to fax info....and it goes on and on
Here is the topper to the story...The IRS has subcontracted collection agencies to collect owed tax money....guess what I found out looking around on the net....Portfolio Recovery Service is one of the company’s they have hired!
Maybe this guy had gone thru some of this IRS Bullshit! It gets very frustrating!...and I am not a TAX CHEAT!....you think they could make it any harder for a person to try and be honest?
I condensed this story. It is MUCH longer.
I feel this guys pain but please don’t mistake that for agreeing on how he dealt with it
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
So... you can go ahead and not pay your share of the taxes and interpret Constitutional Law as you see it. But, know this... you will be held up to adhere to the laws of this land in the justice system... according to that Constitution... not your opinion of the Constitution.
Me? Not so much. I don't mind paying taxes because I like things such as the U.S. Marines and Air Force and Yosemite and Yellowstone... and don't want IRS matters in my life.
This is the kicker.... this guy picked his battle, not the IRS. He must've researched and known that no court has upheld any challenge to the 16th Amendment. He picked a fight that had really bad odds and he lost.
It seems he's one of the people who wanted the benefits of our society with no income tax. To maintain that stance without being a total hypocrite, he should've just dropped out and refused to participate. But nope, he wanted the house, the plane, the retirement accounts... just not the tax.
If I didn't already know it would end with him attempting to commit mass murder, then yeah, I'd feel some sympathy when I imagine this guy going through life - with his paranoia and victim mentality it must've been hell for him. He was probably enraged on a daily basis. His letter is a laundry list of everyone he blames for all of his problems and anyone who goes through life feeling that way probably wouldn't be able to sleep at night. He clearly had mental issues. There's plenty of things that our government has done that piss me off but I deal with it by voting and protesting and participating productively.
Fuck him?? Really?? He had issues, no matter what they were they were deep enough for him to take his own life and others. He seemed tormented. I just cannot believe anyone would just cast him, or any person, off as "fuck him". Maybe that is part of the problem. We need solutions!!
For all we know this guy may have served in Vietnam, lost limbs, etc. No one knows his entire life.
...
I know you are giving him the benefit of the doubt... but, seriously... for me... he went out with intent to kill. Just like the Columbine murderers or someone who wants to die so they drive into head-on traffic. Suicides with collateral damages.
Suicide is one thing... taking out others because your life sucks... I have a tough time accepting that.
...
And as far a Viet Nam vet... he was my age. I missed Viet Nam and only had to participate in the last draft lottery.
He was a software engineer that formed his own business and played in a band for money (which is why he claimed the piano as a business expense).
He had money problems... but, not to the extent that he would be homeless. Money problems he brought on to himself... but, blamed everyone else for.
Other problems... I don't know. But the fact remains... he murdered someone based on the company that person worked for.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
IRS Frustration
Person gets letter from IRS saying they owe money.....of course IRS waits a year before they send the information so as to add on entrust I am sure. They show a list of items that were not claimed...
1...income spouse had that this person did not know about....
2...a forgiven debt, which falls under income
Problem
Can’t contact ex spouse because new mate is insecure
Forgiven debt from a company you never heard of
Solution
1..call IRS listen to automated answer machine press 2 because your not sure who the hell is the right person to talk to stay on hold about 10min
2....they say call another number..listen to automated answer machine press 5 wait 10 more min. till someone comes on the line......then explain you don’t know who the Portfolio Recovery service is
3....they say to call th Portfolio Recovery service so they can to send you a form that the IRS needs
4....Call portfolio and ask them to send form...they say “you need to pay this debt” (if I did owe this debt and they for gave it why are they trying to collect it after turning it in as forgiven?)I tell them I do not own them anything and I need a form for the IRS...they say no
5.... I research Portfolio Recovery Service on the internet....they are all over the net because they are doing the same thing to others. The ones that take Portfolio Recovery Service to court ends up with Portfolio Recovery Service dropping the whole thing...because they can’t prove people owed them the money in the first place.
6.....Call IRS back listen to automated answer machine....press 3 wait for human to answer....as I
took a shower
washed my hair
shaved my legs
and got dressed
still waiting
7....10 to 15 min. later finally person answers I tell her my story once again...and fill her in on what I have found out about the company that says I owed them money and ask if the IRS is investigating them...of course she does not know...so I ask her if any one can claim a forgiven debt to the IRS without the IRS investigating who they are or if there even legit.....she gets pissy with me so I ask to speak to a manager or supervisor....she says there is not one available right now, I say I will hold she says no and hangs up on me.....now I am PISSED
8...I call the Treasury Department in Washington DC and they give me a number
9....call the number and they give me another number
10...I call that number and a real person answers!
11....This is a Criminal Investigator in Miami...very nice man....I tell him the story...he says he will check it out but in the end he sends it to his supervisor and if they have bigger fish to fry there will not be anything done...FUCK!.....I am really frustrated now
That was my day off 5hrs trying to get information from the IRS!
I waited 2 months before I followed up with the investigator who had done nothing...guess he never had time..... he had another local investigator call me and I had to fax info....and it goes on and on
Here is the topper to the story...The IRS has subcontracted collection agencies to collect owed tax money....guess what I found out looking around on the net....Portfolio Recovery Service is one of the company’s they have hired!
Maybe this guy had gone thru some of this IRS Bullshit! It gets very frustrating!...and I am not a TAX CHEAT!....you think they could make it any harder for a person to try and be honest?
I condensed this story. It is MUCH longer.
I feel this guys pain but please don’t mistake that for agreeing on how he dealt with it
...
Wait a minute...
....
You're a CHICK?!?!?!
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
this kind of thing may happen a lot more, sometimes intelligent people are pushed to their extreme edge
and IRS and federal government are good at doing this to people.
I'm not saying that it's OK to act out this way but everybody is different and some can't handle the pressures
justly or justly put on them and they crack, this guy ain't the only one to loose it a few years back a guy killed
him self when the IRS unjustly pressured him to pay a million dollars in back tax's come to find he did not owe.
Godfather.
if this guy was so intelligent he would of handled his frustration appropriately...as it stands, he's a dead pussy who couldn't handle his shit...
fuck him...
Fuck him?? Really?? He had issues, no matter what they were they were deep enough for him to take his own life and others. He seemed tormented. I just cannot believe anyone would just cast him, or any person, off as "fuck him". Maybe that is part of the problem. We need solutions!!
For all we know this guy may have served in Vietnam, lost limbs, etc. No one knows his entire life.
kinda what I was getting at also guess I'm not that great at putting it to words.
IRS Frustration
Person gets letter from IRS saying they owe money.....of course IRS waits a year before they send the information so as to add on entrust I am sure. They show a list of items that were not claimed...
1...income spouse had that this person did not know about....
2...a forgiven debt, which falls under income
Problem
Can’t contact ex spouse because new mate is insecure
Forgiven debt from a company you never heard of
Solution
1..call IRS listen to automated answer machine press 2 because your not sure who the hell is the right person to talk to stay on hold about 10min
2....they say call another number..listen to automated answer machine press 5 wait 10 more min. till someone comes on the line......then explain you don’t know who the Portfolio Recovery service is
3....they say to call th Portfolio Recovery service so they can to send you a form that the IRS needs
4....Call portfolio and ask them to send form...they say “you need to pay this debt” (if I did owe this debt and they for gave it why are they trying to collect it after turning it in as forgiven?)I tell them I do not own them anything and I need a form for the IRS...they say no
5.... I research Portfolio Recovery Service on the internet....they are all over the net because they are doing the same thing to others. The ones that take Portfolio Recovery Service to court ends up with Portfolio Recovery Service dropping the whole thing...because they can’t prove people owed them the money in the first place.
6.....Call IRS back listen to automated answer machine....press 3 wait for human to answer....as I
took a shower
washed my hair
shaved my legs
and got dressed
still waiting
7....10 to 15 min. later finally person answers I tell her my story once again...and fill her in on what I have found out about the company that says I owed them money and ask if the IRS is investigating them...of course she does not know...so I ask her if any one can claim a forgiven debt to the IRS without the IRS investigating who they are or if there even legit.....she gets pissy with me so I ask to speak to a manager or supervisor....she says there is not one available right now, I say I will hold she says no and hangs up on me.....now I am PISSED
8...I call the Treasury Department in Washington DC and they give me a number
9....call the number and they give me another number
10...I call that number and a real person answers!
11....This is a Criminal Investigator in Miami...very nice man....I tell him the story...he says he will check it out but in the end he sends it to his supervisor and if they have bigger fish to fry there will not be anything done...FUCK!.....I am really frustrated now
That was my day off 5hrs trying to get information from the IRS!
I waited 2 months before I followed up with the investigator who had done nothing...guess he never had time..... he had another local investigator call me and I had to fax info....and it goes on and on
Here is the topper to the story...The IRS has subcontracted collection agencies to collect owed tax money....guess what I found out looking around on the net....Portfolio Recovery Service is one of the company’s they have hired!
Maybe this guy had gone thru some of this IRS Bullshit! It gets very frustrating!...and I am not a TAX CHEAT!....you think they could make it any harder for a person to try and be honest?
I condensed this story. It is MUCH longer.
I feel this guys pain but please don’t mistake that for agreeing on how he dealt with it
...
Wait a minute...
....
You're a CHICK?!?!?!
:? I typed all that and that is all you got?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Too kill, too cause fear and panic, too alter peoples' prospective of others, and, too be remembered as an instrument of death and destruction on a massive scale for a CAUSE.
I think this deranged pilot wanted to kill IRS employees in particular, and he was acting alone.
Al Qaida, on the other hand, wants to kill random people to strike fear in the entire US population, and they have a large financial and idealogical supporters who directly help this person or people do this.
These are two different goals with two different support structures. I put them in two different categories because they act in two different ways for two different ends.
Of course, they are both terrorizing - but I don't mind a qualifier before the word "terrorist".
He killed random PEOPLE, everyday, tax paying people who got up and went to work at the IRS. Yet you're justifying his actions knowing that he was at fault for not paying his taxes. You're justifying and supporting his target simply because we all don't like pay taxes.
I gave you an example of a man in Afghanistan who straps on backpack full of explosives, walks to a village marketplace to kill two soldiers at the cost of 50 of his own people. Do you realize that you did not even acknowledge the fact that you were responding about an individual. Your immediate thought was to associate the man with a designated terrorist organization, thereby, you could not conceive of any personal reason why this man could commit such an act. The same thing you did with your listing of individuals/groups.
As long was we continue to rationalize who was behind the trigger, we will always be one step behind the homegrown terrorist. We have a deep seeded need to believe people like Newt Grinch, Charles Stuart and Susan Smith before looking at ourselves and that is dangerous when you look at the anthrax individual.
Post edited by puremagic on
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
watch out you might winde up on a goverment watch list
EZ Eddie I never said I have any compassion for the guy. and BTW people kill for money every day.
all I was saying who are we to judge anybody, let the law do it.
Godfather.
Do you feel the same about Al-Queda (sp)?
no, so far I have been called a terriest sympthiser and that I should be watched by some goverment agency
because I will not judge this guy in the plane as you all have. forgive my spelling
Guess what? Filling out your taxes is VOLUNTARY! It even says so on the fucking forms. But being coerced into paying them because the IRS will sick the FBI on you if you don't is not a form of voluntary compliance. It is duress. Just because the system is set up for people to have to pay taxes does not mean that it is actually constitutional. The U.S. survived the first 100 years of its existence without an income tax at all because no one had crafted a good enough way to subvert the constitution to be able to apply income taxes on the citizens.
I do not think this guy was a liar and cheat as you label him just because he didn't file his taxes. Constitutionally he was within his rights.
...
Guess what? Filing a tax return (Form 1040) is voluentary... paying the taxes on your income isn't. The Tax Return is what you get back if you have been withheld too much... or your payment if you haven't had enough withheld. You cannot voluenteer to not pay taxes.
Lying on your tax returns is lying... cheating on your tax return is cheating. Interpreting the law as you see fit... is not following the law.
...
And last time I checked.. there hasn't been a repeal of the 16th Amendment. Therefore... like it or not... the 16th Amendment is part of our Constitution.
...
So... you can go ahead and not pay your share of the taxes and interpret Constitutional Law as you see it. But, know this... you will be held up to adhere to the laws of this land in the justice system... according to that Constitution... not your opinion of the Constitution.
Me? Not so much. I don't mind paying taxes because I like things such as the U.S. Marines and Air Force and Yosemite and Yellowstone... and don't want IRS matters in my life.
Like I said earlier (but after my first post you are quoting) the 16th amendment wasn't necessarily ratified under legal means but anytime it is brought up it is swept under the rug before anyone really has a chance to look at it. To say that the income tax goes directly to the things you suggests overlooks the fact that the income tax is one of the more totalitarian of all possible taxes because it implies that the government owns the lives and labor of the citizens it is supposed to represent.
There are other venues available to fund the federal governement for the services you mention that you enjoy: excise taxes, non-protectionist tarrifs, and massive cuts in our current government spending. Everyone always overlooks the fact that the United States government operated without revenues made on the income tax. But hey, I'm not very good at explaining this so I'll just let this column that I saved that Ron Paul wrote on May 7, 2001 do the talking for me.
On May 7, 2001, Ron Paul wrote the following column:
The Case Against the Income Tax
Could America exist without an income tax? The idea seems radical, yet in truth America did just fine without a federal income tax for the first 126 years of its history. Prior to 1913, the government operated with revenues raised through tariffs, excise taxes, and property taxes, without ever touching a worker’s paycheck. In the late 1800s, when Congress first attempted to impose an income tax, the notion of taxing a citizen’s hard work was considered radical! Public outcry ensued; more importantly, the Supreme Court ruled the income tax unconstitutional. Only with passage of the 16th Amendment did Congress gain the ability to tax the productive endeavors of its citizens.
Yet don’t we need an income tax to fund the important functions of the federal government? You may be surprised to know that the income tax accounts for only approximately one-third of federal revenue. Only 10 years ago, the federal budget was roughly one-third less than it is today. Surely we could find ways to cut spending back to 1990 levels, especially when the Treasury has single year tax surpluses for the past several years. So perhaps the idea of an America without an income tax is not so radical after all.
The harmful effects of the income tax are obvious. First and foremost, it has enabled government to expand far beyond its proper constitutional limits, regulating virtually every aspect of our lives. It has given government a claim on our lives and work, destroying our privacy in the process. It takes billions of dollars out of the legitimate private economy, with most Americans giving more than a third of everything they make to the federal government. This economic drain destroys jobs and penalizes productive behavior. The ridiculous complexity of the tax laws makes compliance a nightmare for both individuals and businesses. All things considered, our Founders would be dismayed by the income tax mess and the tragic loss of liberty which results.
America without an income tax would be far more prosperous and far more free, but we must be prepared to fight to regain the liberty we have lost incrementally over the past century. I recently introduced “The Liberty Amendment,” legislation which would repeal the 16th Amendment and effectively abolish the income tax. I truly believe that real tax reform, reform that so many frustrated Americans desperately want, requires bold legislation that challenges the Washington mind set. Congress talks about reform, but the current tax debate really involves nothing of substance. Both parties are content to continue tinkering with the edges of the tax code to please various special interests. The Liberty Amendment is an attempt to eliminate the system altogether, forcing Congress to find a simple and fair way to collect limited federal revenues. Most of all, the Liberty Amendment is an initiative aimed at reducing the size and scope of the federal government.
Is it impossible to end the income tax? I don’t believe so. In fact, I believe a serious groundswell movement of disaffected taxpayers is growing in this country. Millions of Americans are fed up with the current tax system, and they will bring pressure on Congress. Some sidestep Congress completely, bringing legal challenges questioning the validity of the tax code and the 16th Amendment itself. Ultimately, the Liberty Amendment could serve as a flashpoint for these millions of voices.
I tried googling for it since I can't really link my copy that I printed out and this is what I came up with. You need to scroll down a bit to see the stuff I pasted if you are interested:
If there was no income tax this guy would have been pissing and moaning about his property taxes. The particular issue he decided to fixate on is not the problem - the fact that he fixated and couldn't get past it is.
If there was no income tax this guy would have been pissing and moaning about his property taxes. The particular issue he decided to fixate on is not the problem - the fact that he fixated and couldn't get past it is.
Obviously you have never dealt with the IRS
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
If there was no income tax this guy would have been pissing and moaning about his property taxes. The particular issue he decided to fixate on is not the problem - the fact that he fixated and couldn't get past it is.
Obviously you have never dealt with the IRS
Unfortunately, I have, and as an engineering contractor, even - which is what this guy was.
This is how I know firsthand that if you don't fill out the correct forms the IRS will calculate what you owe for you and mail you a bill
film director Kevin Smith was his co-pilot... that was as high as the plane would go.
Horrible.
at least you appreciate a quick fire joke unlike the other bore-atrons.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
I really, really hope you're on some kinda government watch list.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/ ... -anti.html
Frankly, I don't think taxes is the problem. I bet if there were no such thing as taxes, this guy would still spend his life focusing on negative things that happen to him and seeing himself as a victim. It's a state of mind. In his case it may have been a mental health disease, even. Really shitty things happen to all of us, what matters is how you deal with those things and move forward.
Edit to add: I have never seen doubling-down on conspiracy theories in order to explain these shitty, awful situations work out well for anyone. It is not a healthy mental path to start down and seems hard to get off once someone is on it.
Did you even read his own words?
"The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two "interpretations" for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country."
He tried to 'interptret' tax codes that apply to Churches to fit his personal income... and avoid paying taxes. He got stung because you cannot file as a Church... if you are not a church. Same as me interpreting traffic laws to fit my driving needs. It is not going to fly.
"To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn't have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn't notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.
So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I'd never enter another accountant's office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it
When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl's unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn't have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me."
Failed to file a return... didn't know how his IRA disbursements worked... not the IRS's problem, HIS problem.
His new wife had $12K of unreported income that his own accountant did not file... again, not the IRS's problem... his accountant was to blame... if the accountant was even told of the $12K descrepency.
Ignorance of the law is no defense... otherwise, people could claim, "I didn't know it was illegal to shoplift".
...
And to kill... because of money? That is just fucking SAD.
He tried to cheat he tax laws by pretending he didn't know... didn't know that the laws applied to churches didn't apply to individuals... that there are penalties for early IRA withdrawal (in the form of taxes)... that his new wife had unreported income. He had his own business... he is supposed to learn these things.
..
Finally... Quick to Judge???
Some one is DEAD because of this guy. Did you know that? He MURDERED someone because of his money problems.
So, fuck yeah... I'm judging the asshole.
Hail, Hail!!!
I really really think your a little paranoid.........big brother
I'm not a radical of any kind but I guess my opinion scares you a little.
I go to work go home then my family and I are very involved in my son's sport (BMX) everyday
I don't have time to change the world.......wait isn't uncle obama doing that
Godfather.
watch out you might winde up on a goverment watch list
EZ Eddie I never said I have any compassion for the guy. and BTW people kill for money every day.
all I was saying who are we to judge anybody, let the law do it.
Godfather.
You're a terrorist sympathizer. Somebody should be keeping an eye on you.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
Guess what? Filling out your taxes is VOLUNTARY! It even says so on the fucking forms. But being coerced into paying them because the IRS will sick the FBI on you if you don't is not a form of voluntary compliance. It is duress. Just because the system is set up for people to have to pay taxes does not mean that it is actually constitutional. The U.S. survived the first 100 years of its existence without an income tax at all because no one had crafted a good enough way to subvert the constitution to be able to apply income taxes on the citizens.
I do not think this guy was a liar and cheat as you label him just because he didn't file his taxes. Constitutionally he was within his rights.
Completing the form is voluntary. But paying taxes is not. If you don't complete the form, the IRS will do the math for you and tell you how much you owe.
This may be true, but the income tax is still an unconstitutional measure enacted by the government even though it appears as the 16th amendment. To this day there are still questions as to whether or not that amendment was legally ratified by the required number of states.
I am now old enough to rebel again, but not so much as to harm myself or others in doing so, which means still doing things and living in ways that are not of my choice.
I know I can live somewhere else, but they will have their own gov. intervetions that hit kids as soon as they enter school. I once learned by a professor who was quite anti-establishment, that the main function of public school is to program us to live within the constraints the US allows us to, or wants us to.
This guy seems to have never really gave up those ideals he once had, as I did, and he lived many years fighting a system he could never win.
I just wish he had not harmed others, so more people would really read what he wrote andnot think he's just some crackpot. He seems quite intelligent, yet I do know intelligent people can still have deep mental issues. This guy sounds more like an idealist, than a crackpot.
For all we know this guy may have served in Vietnam, lost limbs, etc. No one knows his entire life.
Two things:
-The "perceived" intent.
-The supporters
I think this deranged pilot wanted to kill IRS employees in particular, and he was acting alone.
Al Qaida, on the other hand, wants to kill random people to strike fear in the entire US population, and they have a large financial and idealogical supporters who directly help this person or people do this.
These are two different goals with two different support structures. I put them in two different categories because they act in two different ways for two different ends.
Of course, they are both terrorizing - but I don't mind a qualifier before the word "terrorist".
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
Guess what? Filing a tax return (Form 1040) is voluentary... paying the taxes on your income isn't. The Tax Return is what you get back if you have been withheld too much... or your payment if you haven't had enough withheld. You cannot voluenteer to not pay taxes.
Lying on your tax returns is lying... cheating on your tax return is cheating. Interpreting the law as you see fit... is not following the law.
...
And last time I checked.. there hasn't been a repeal of the 16th Amendment. Therefore... like it or not... the 16th Amendment is part of our Constitution.
...
So... you can go ahead and not pay your share of the taxes and interpret Constitutional Law as you see it. But, know this... you will be held up to adhere to the laws of this land in the justice system... according to that Constitution... not your opinion of the Constitution.
Me? Not so much. I don't mind paying taxes because I like things such as the U.S. Marines and Air Force and Yosemite and Yellowstone... and don't want IRS matters in my life.
Hail, Hail!!!
Person gets letter from IRS saying they owe money.....of course IRS waits a year before they send the information so as to add on entrust I am sure. They show a list of items that were not claimed...
1...income spouse had that this person did not know about....
2...a forgiven debt, which falls under income
Problem
Can’t contact ex spouse because new mate is insecure
Forgiven debt from a company you never heard of
Solution
1..call IRS listen to automated answer machine press 2 because your not sure who the hell is the right person to talk to stay on hold about 10min
2....they say call another number..listen to automated answer machine press 5 wait 10 more min. till someone comes on the line......then explain you don’t know who the Portfolio Recovery service is
3....they say to call th Portfolio Recovery service so they can to send you a form that the IRS needs
4....Call portfolio and ask them to send form...they say “you need to pay this debt” (if I did owe this debt and they for gave it why are they trying to collect it after turning it in as forgiven?)I tell them I do not own them anything and I need a form for the IRS...they say no
5.... I research Portfolio Recovery Service on the internet....they are all over the net because they are doing the same thing to others. The ones that take Portfolio Recovery Service to court ends up with Portfolio Recovery Service dropping the whole thing...because they can’t prove people owed them the money in the first place.
6.....Call IRS back listen to automated answer machine....press 3 wait for human to answer....as I
took a shower
washed my hair
shaved my legs
and got dressed
still waiting
7....10 to 15 min. later finally person answers I tell her my story once again...and fill her in on what I have found out about the company that says I owed them money and ask if the IRS is investigating them...of course she does not know...so I ask her if any one can claim a forgiven debt to the IRS without the IRS investigating who they are or if there even legit.....she gets pissy with me so I ask to speak to a manager or supervisor....she says there is not one available right now, I say I will hold she says no and hangs up on me.....now I am PISSED
8...I call the Treasury Department in Washington DC and they give me a number
9....call the number and they give me another number
10...I call that number and a real person answers!
11....This is a Criminal Investigator in Miami...very nice man....I tell him the story...he says he will check it out but in the end he sends it to his supervisor and if they have bigger fish to fry there will not be anything done...FUCK!.....I am really frustrated now
That was my day off 5hrs trying to get information from the IRS!
I waited 2 months before I followed up with the investigator who had done nothing...guess he never had time..... he had another local investigator call me and I had to fax info....and it goes on and on
Here is the topper to the story...The IRS has subcontracted collection agencies to collect owed tax money....guess what I found out looking around on the net....Portfolio Recovery Service is one of the company’s they have hired!
Maybe this guy had gone thru some of this IRS Bullshit! It gets very frustrating!...and I am not a TAX CHEAT!....you think they could make it any harder for a person to try and be honest?
I condensed this story. It is MUCH longer.
I feel this guys pain but please don’t mistake that for agreeing on how he dealt with it
This is the kicker.... this guy picked his battle, not the IRS. He must've researched and known that no court has upheld any challenge to the 16th Amendment. He picked a fight that had really bad odds and he lost.
It seems he's one of the people who wanted the benefits of our society with no income tax. To maintain that stance without being a total hypocrite, he should've just dropped out and refused to participate. But nope, he wanted the house, the plane, the retirement accounts... just not the tax.
If I didn't already know it would end with him attempting to commit mass murder, then yeah, I'd feel some sympathy when I imagine this guy going through life - with his paranoia and victim mentality it must've been hell for him. He was probably enraged on a daily basis. His letter is a laundry list of everyone he blames for all of his problems and anyone who goes through life feeling that way probably wouldn't be able to sleep at night. He clearly had mental issues. There's plenty of things that our government has done that piss me off but I deal with it by voting and protesting and participating productively.
I know you are giving him the benefit of the doubt... but, seriously... for me... he went out with intent to kill. Just like the Columbine murderers or someone who wants to die so they drive into head-on traffic. Suicides with collateral damages.
Suicide is one thing... taking out others because your life sucks... I have a tough time accepting that.
...
And as far a Viet Nam vet... he was my age. I missed Viet Nam and only had to participate in the last draft lottery.
He was a software engineer that formed his own business and played in a band for money (which is why he claimed the piano as a business expense).
He had money problems... but, not to the extent that he would be homeless. Money problems he brought on to himself... but, blamed everyone else for.
Other problems... I don't know. But the fact remains... he murdered someone based on the company that person worked for.
Hail, Hail!!!
Wait a minute...
....
You're a CHICK?!?!?!
Hail, Hail!!!
kinda what I was getting at also guess I'm not that great at putting it to words.
Godfather.
Dude. I had no idea you are that old. :shock:
He killed random PEOPLE, everyday, tax paying people who got up and went to work at the IRS. Yet you're justifying his actions knowing that he was at fault for not paying his taxes. You're justifying and supporting his target simply because we all don't like pay taxes.
I gave you an example of a man in Afghanistan who straps on backpack full of explosives, walks to a village marketplace to kill two soldiers at the cost of 50 of his own people. Do you realize that you did not even acknowledge the fact that you were responding about an individual. Your immediate thought was to associate the man with a designated terrorist organization, thereby, you could not conceive of any personal reason why this man could commit such an act. The same thing you did with your listing of individuals/groups.
As long was we continue to rationalize who was behind the trigger, we will always be one step behind the homegrown terrorist. We have a deep seeded need to believe people like Newt Grinch, Charles Stuart and Susan Smith before looking at ourselves and that is dangerous when you look at the anthrax individual.
no, so far I have been called a terriest sympthiser and that I should be watched by some goverment agency
because I will not judge this guy in the plane as you all have. forgive my spelling
Godfather.
Like I said earlier (but after my first post you are quoting) the 16th amendment wasn't necessarily ratified under legal means but anytime it is brought up it is swept under the rug before anyone really has a chance to look at it. To say that the income tax goes directly to the things you suggests overlooks the fact that the income tax is one of the more totalitarian of all possible taxes because it implies that the government owns the lives and labor of the citizens it is supposed to represent.
There are other venues available to fund the federal governement for the services you mention that you enjoy: excise taxes, non-protectionist tarrifs, and massive cuts in our current government spending. Everyone always overlooks the fact that the United States government operated without revenues made on the income tax. But hey, I'm not very good at explaining this so I'll just let this column that I saved that Ron Paul wrote on May 7, 2001 do the talking for me.
On May 7, 2001, Ron Paul wrote the following column:
The Case Against the Income Tax
Could America exist without an income tax? The idea seems radical, yet in truth America did just fine without a federal income tax for the first 126 years of its history. Prior to 1913, the government operated with revenues raised through tariffs, excise taxes, and property taxes, without ever touching a worker’s paycheck. In the late 1800s, when Congress first attempted to impose an income tax, the notion of taxing a citizen’s hard work was considered radical! Public outcry ensued; more importantly, the Supreme Court ruled the income tax unconstitutional. Only with passage of the 16th Amendment did Congress gain the ability to tax the productive endeavors of its citizens.
Yet don’t we need an income tax to fund the important functions of the federal government? You may be surprised to know that the income tax accounts for only approximately one-third of federal revenue. Only 10 years ago, the federal budget was roughly one-third less than it is today. Surely we could find ways to cut spending back to 1990 levels, especially when the Treasury has single year tax surpluses for the past several years. So perhaps the idea of an America without an income tax is not so radical after all.
The harmful effects of the income tax are obvious. First and foremost, it has enabled government to expand far beyond its proper constitutional limits, regulating virtually every aspect of our lives. It has given government a claim on our lives and work, destroying our privacy in the process. It takes billions of dollars out of the legitimate private economy, with most Americans giving more than a third of everything they make to the federal government. This economic drain destroys jobs and penalizes productive behavior. The ridiculous complexity of the tax laws makes compliance a nightmare for both individuals and businesses. All things considered, our Founders would be dismayed by the income tax mess and the tragic loss of liberty which results.
America without an income tax would be far more prosperous and far more free, but we must be prepared to fight to regain the liberty we have lost incrementally over the past century. I recently introduced “The Liberty Amendment,” legislation which would repeal the 16th Amendment and effectively abolish the income tax. I truly believe that real tax reform, reform that so many frustrated Americans desperately want, requires bold legislation that challenges the Washington mind set. Congress talks about reform, but the current tax debate really involves nothing of substance. Both parties are content to continue tinkering with the edges of the tax code to please various special interests. The Liberty Amendment is an attempt to eliminate the system altogether, forcing Congress to find a simple and fair way to collect limited federal revenues. Most of all, the Liberty Amendment is an initiative aimed at reducing the size and scope of the federal government.
Is it impossible to end the income tax? I don’t believe so. In fact, I believe a serious groundswell movement of disaffected taxpayers is growing in this country. Millions of Americans are fed up with the current tax system, and they will bring pressure on Congress. Some sidestep Congress completely, bringing legal challenges questioning the validity of the tax code and the 16th Amendment itself. Ultimately, the Liberty Amendment could serve as a flashpoint for these millions of voices.
I tried googling for it since I can't really link my copy that I printed out and this is what I came up with. You need to scroll down a bit to see the stuff I pasted if you are interested:
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-04-15/end-t ... h-the-irs/
If there was no income tax this guy would have been pissing and moaning about his property taxes. The particular issue he decided to fixate on is not the problem - the fact that he fixated and couldn't get past it is.
Unfortunately, I have, and as an engineering contractor, even - which is what this guy was.
This is how I know firsthand that if you don't fill out the correct forms the IRS will calculate what you owe for you and mail you a bill
Raise your hand if you've had to deal with the IRS and did not use it as an excuse to commit mass murder. :wave:
at least you appreciate a quick fire joke unlike the other bore-atrons.